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Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
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DawgNBama Offline
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Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
privatize??

This is not to start any flame wars with Georgia Tech fans, but rather this is something that I really want to have a very serious discussion about. To me, the Georgia Institute of Technology is a very elite institution, and truly does deserve to have MIT, Cal Tech, etc. as peer institutions. That is a huge compliment to GT, and definitely not a criticism. The University of Georgia and the Georgia Institute of Technology are not peers at all!! They just are located in the same state and they have very different missions!! I have viewed Auburn as UGa's peer for years because of the universities' similar missions. The University of Pittsburgh, Temple University, and even Penn State University are state-related and not state(public) schools. Pittsburgh and/or Temple fans feel free to correct me, but doesn't state-related mean that you are a combo of a public & private institution?? If that's the case, I think that's something that the administration at the Georgia Institute of Technology should look at, and make as a goal, IMO. GT would be free to do things the way they want, with little interference from the state of Georgia.

I really would like some discussion on this, especially from GT fans. You guys act like the University System of Georgia holds you back, so how would like to be funded similar to the University of Pittsburgh and governed a similar way??

https://psmag.com/education/breaking-awa...vate-68007

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com...K/amp.html

I see it's been happening some already.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 04:11 AM by DawgNBama.)
12-17-2019 04:02 AM
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Post: #2
RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
I was aware of the University of Virginia's proposal a few years ago.

I do not have any strong feelings in any way concerning the subject other than some endowments for some universities are becoming so large the mission of the school is changing.

Schools like UVA and Georgia Tech are special schools.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 11:55 AM by chess.)
12-17-2019 11:16 AM
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
The USG does hold Georgia Tech back substantially on academic and athletic offerings. Largely because the USG has majority control by UGAg peddlers ... that is after all how you got an "engineering" program at UGAg despite duplicating offerings at GT, GT-Savannah, and Georgia Southern among others. Can you imagine the shrieking and moaning and crying if GT dared offer a medical or law program?

The issue in GT going private up until the very VERY recent past was the wrong leadership at AD and President was in place. AD is a big check mark right now. The new President may be the last missing piece of the leadership puzzle. Assuming you get the leadership issue squared away the next issue is going to be real estate. Pretty much all of Georgia Tech's real estate portfolio is very valuable and expensive. I'm going to pull a random number outta my arse but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the cost of buying outright all that land is a cool billion dollars. And I don't think USG is just going to hand it over ... because, again, UGAg.
12-17-2019 12:12 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
I don’t understand this thread. Ga. Tech is an institution of the State of Georgia now, right? How could it possibly become a private institution? What advantage would there be? Wouldn’t tuition rise significantly? Wouldn’t the school stop giving admissions preference to instate students? How would you sell that to legislators and the public?

And exactly what is the relationship between the University of Pittsburgh and the state of Pennsylvania? How can a school be partially public and partially private? All schools receive public money one way or another — federal student loans, grants and contracts. What’s different about Pitt?

For that matter are there are any other hybrids in the ACC? Syracuse and Miami are private, right? Louisville and Va. Tech are public, right?
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2019 09:16 AM by Hallcity.)
12-17-2019 03:45 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 03:45 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I don’t understand this thread. Ga. Tech is an institution of the State of Georgia now, right? How could it possibly become a private institution? What advantage would there be? Wouldn’t tuition rise significantly? Wouldn’t the school stop giving admissions preference to instate students? How would you sell that to legislators and the public?

And exactly what is the relationship between the University of Pittsburgh and the state of Pennsylvania? How can a school be partially public and partially private? All schools receive public money one way or another — federal student loans, grants and contracts. What’s different about Pitt.

For that matter are there are any other hybrids in the ACC? Syracuse and Miami are private, right? Louisville and Va. Tech are public, right?


The amount being kicked into the coffers from GA to GT is a fraction of what it use to be. This is the common trend throughout the country. While no major universities have gone from public to private several majors have taken major steps to become closer to being a private. The big three in Oregon all have power that has been divested from the state legislature to the Universities. The argument for why is firstly financial secondly autonomy. When the amount the government kicks in for funding is a tiny amount why deal with all the political sausage making when you're not being paid for it? It makes more sense to self-finance and go your own way free of the legislature. It's been a trend for some time now for governments to contribute less and less to .edus and for those .edus to get more and more autonomy and self-governance.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 04:06 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
12-17-2019 04:03 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 03:45 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I don’t understand this thread. Ga. Tech is an institution of the State of Georgia now, right? How could it possibly become a private institution? What advantage would there be? Wouldn’t tuition rise significantly? Wouldn’t the school stop giving admissions preference to instate students? How would you sell that to legislators and the public?

And exactly what is the relationship between the University of Pittsburgh and the state of Pennsylvania? How can a school be partially public and partially private? All schools receive public money one way or another — federal student loans, grants and contracts. What’s different about Pitt.

For that matter are there are any other hybrids in the ACC? Syracuse and Miami are private, right? Louisville and Va. Tech are public, right?

Imagine if UNC had to sign off on everything that Duke wanted to do - from offering a new major to renovating your football stadium - would there be an advantage of going private to get out from under that?
12-17-2019 04:06 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 04:06 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 03:45 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I don’t understand this thread. Ga. Tech is an institution of the State of Georgia now, right? How could it possibly become a private institution? What advantage would there be? Wouldn’t tuition rise significantly? Wouldn’t the school stop giving admissions preference to instate students? How would you sell that to legislators and the public?

And exactly what is the relationship between the University of Pittsburgh and the state of Pennsylvania? How can a school be partially public and partially private? All schools receive public money one way or another — federal student loans, grants and contracts. What’s different about Pitt.

For that matter are there are any other hybrids in the ACC? Syracuse and Miami are private, right? Louisville and Va. Tech are public, right?

Imagine if UNC had to sign off on everything that Duke wanted to do - from offering a new major to renovating your football stadium - would there be an advantage of going private to get out from under that?

We don't have to imagine - it's why we have no Law School, Nursing School, Med School, or Pharmacy School with area private Universities getting to take advantage of the demand.

NC State is in the weakest position in this regard, followed by GT, Clemson, then VT.

If you don't have your own independent Board of Trustees/Visitors/Governors - you are in a world of hurt.

NC State is not the only harmed party in NC. Wake Forest is placing a new med school in Charlotte because UNC-Ch prevented that at UNC-C. UNC-Ch has also prevented certain programs at ECU and UNC-G over the years and then not expanded their offerings to match the need.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 04:16 PM by Statefan.)
12-17-2019 04:10 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
Pitt and PSU are claimed to be state-related in reality they give a discount to in state students that amounts to about 10% of the cost. Yankee schools do not have a public origin and therefore are not funded by the public as southern or western schools

True public higher education starts with UGa and UNC and then spread from there and was then boosted by the Morril Grant for Cow Colleges. Unfortunately some schools managed to hijack these grants and this why there was no Georgia or Florida A&M that evolved into an NC State, Michigan State, etc., analog.


The student loan "crisis" is centered in Pa, NY, NY, and Mass just for this reason. Those states do not include a publicly funded university in their State or Commonwealth Constitution and don't fund them. Pa and NJ actually supported loan shark lenders to get their students into high debt, the kind that makes someone who only used Stafford loans look like a genius. It's part of what drives NE or Yankee kids to VT, UVa, NC State, UNC, Florida, Georgia, FSU, etc.

In NC the UNC System became a tool of economic development and social control in the 1930's and this continued for 50 years. For the State of NC it was a good thing. For NC State and ECU a mixed bag. App State, Western Carolina, and ECU are all examples of the economic development use of the University System. The cities of Charlotte and Wilmington then wanted their own universities. Finally NC never dismantled the HBCU's so now there are some 14 institutions who must jockey with the UNC-Ch majority on the BOG to start new offerings. This has empowered Duke, WF, Elon, Campbell, and Lenoir-Rhyne to fill that graduate school niche.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 04:30 PM by Statefan.)
12-17-2019 04:20 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 04:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Pitt and PSU are claimed to be state-related in reality they give a discount to in state students that amounts to about 10% of the cost. Yankee schools do not have a public origin and therefore are not funded by the public as southern or western schools

True public higher education starts with UGa and UNC and then spread from there and was then boosted by the Morril Grant for Cow Colleges. Unfortunately some schools managed to hijack these grants and this why there was no Georgia or Florida A&M that evolved into an NC State, Michigan State, etc., analog.


The student loan "crisis" is centered in Pa, NY, NY, and Mass just for this reason. Those states do not include a publicly funded university in their State or Commonwealth Constitution and don't fund them. Pa and NJ actually supported loan shark lenders to get their students into high debt, the kind that makes someone who only used Stafford loans look like a genius. It's part of what drives NE or Yankee kids to VT, UVa, NC State, UNC, Florida, Georgia, FSU, etc.

In NC the UNC System became a tool of economic development and social control in the 1930's and this continued for 50 years. For the State of NC it was a good thing. For NC State and ECU a mixed bag. App State, Western Carolina, and ECU are all examples of the economic development use of the University System. The cities of Charlotte and Wilmington then wanted their own universities. Finally NC never dismantled the HBCU's so now there are some 14 institutions who must jockey with the UNC-Ch majority on the BOG to start new offerings. This has empowered Duke, WF, Elon, Campbell, and Lenoir-Rhyne to fill that graduate school niche.

Duke University isn’t competing with any NC school other than in sports. Duke Health Care Systems is furiously competing with UNC Healthcare but that’s a different matter.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 06:56 PM by Hallcity.)
12-17-2019 06:51 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 03:45 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I don’t understand this thread. Ga. Tech is an institution of the State of Georgia now, right? How could it possibly become a private institution? What advantage would there be? Wouldn’t tuition rise significantly? Wouldn’t the school stop giving admissions preference to instate students? How would you sell that to legislators and the public?

And exactly what is the relationship between the University of Pittsburgh and the state of Pennsylvania? How can a school be partially public and partially private? All schools receive public money one way or another — federal student loans, grants and contracts. What’s different about Pitt.

For that matter are there are any other hybrids in the ACC? Syracuse and Miami are private, right? Louisville and Va. Tech are public, right?
GaTech could be privatized, ie no state dollars or partially privatized which would be receiving much less state $$'s than Georgia Southern, for example.

Advantage would be GT could tell USG to kiss their behind when GT wants to do something that the USG doesn't want them to do. Tuition would rise significantly at GT, but the way you sell this to legislators is that the state doesn't have to kick in nearly as much $$'s to Tech as they used to. They in turn sell this to voters as lower taxes and more $$'s to high schools.
UVa is kind of a hybrid too from what I've seen. Not sure on UNC.
12-17-2019 08:20 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
UVa and UNC are not "hybrids"
12-17-2019 08:27 PM
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 08:20 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  GaTech could be privatized, ie no state dollars or partially privatized which would be receiving much less state $$'s than Georgia Southern, for example.

That would require the GA Legislature to cede all USG holdings at Georgia Tech to Georgia Tech. Why would they do that? Given that it's a political chamber I would imagine they would oppose it explicitly to assist the UGAg athletic program and to prevent any future additional competition.
12-17-2019 08:27 PM
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 08:27 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 08:20 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  GaTech could be privatized, ie no state dollars or partially privatized which would be receiving much less state $$'s than Georgia Southern, for example.

That would require the GA Legislature to cede all USG holdings at Georgia Tech to Georgia Tech. Why would they do that? Given that it's a political chamber I would imagine they would oppose it explicitly to assist the UGAg athletic program and to prevent any future additional competition.

Georgia is a "Dillon's Rule" state unless I am mistaken. As such the property under GT as well as UGa belongs to the State of Ga for the State to do with as they see fit unless the State Constitution expressly gives that power to the Board.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 08:41 PM by Statefan.)
12-17-2019 08:33 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 04:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Pitt and PSU are claimed to be state-related in reality they give a discount to in state students that amounts to about 10% of the cost. Yankee schools do not have a public origin and therefore are not funded by the public as southern or western schools

True public higher education starts with UGa and UNC and then spread from there and was then boosted by the Morril Grant for Cow Colleges. Unfortunately some schools managed to hijack these grants and this why there was no Georgia or Florida A&M that evolved into an NC State, Michigan State, etc., analog.

No schools hijacked any funds to the best of my knowledge. What was supposed to happen was that UGA, UNC, UVA, 'Bama, etc. were supposed to have agriculture departments. 'Bama, UNC, Texas, etc. all said heck no, we don't want farmers on our campuses!! UGA, UF, Arkansas, LSU, etc. said no problem, we will take the farmers and start ag departments. This is why you have Auburn, NC State, Virginia Tech, etc., and why there aren't any in Georgia, Louisiana, etc. Florida is a weird case because even though they agreed to teach farmers agriculture, for some reason, the state of Florida wanted a major liberal arts university like how UF used to be, so FSU was established. Similar situation in Arizona with U of Arizona being the ag school and Arizona State being the state liberal arts flagship.
12-17-2019 08:38 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 08:38 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 04:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Pitt and PSU are claimed to be state-related in reality they give a discount to in state students that amounts to about 10% of the cost. Yankee schools do not have a public origin and therefore are not funded by the public as southern or western schools

True public higher education starts with UGa and UNC and then spread from there and was then boosted by the Morril Grant for Cow Colleges. Unfortunately some schools managed to hijack these grants and this why there was no Georgia or Florida A&M that evolved into an NC State, Michigan State, etc., analog.

No schools hijacked any funds to the best of my knowledge. What was supposed to happen was that UGA, UNC, UVA, 'Bama, etc. were supposed to have agriculture departments. 'Bama, UNC, Texas, etc. all said heck no, we don't want farmers on our campuses!! UGA, UF, Arkansas, LSU, etc. said no problem, we will take the farmers and start ag departments. This is why you have Auburn, NC State, Virginia Tech, etc., and why there aren't any in Georgia, Louisiana, etc. Florida is a weird case because even though they agreed to teach farmers agriculture, for some reason, the state of Florida wanted a major liberal arts university like how UF used to be, so FSU was established. Similar situation in Arizona with U of Arizona being the ag school and Arizona State being the state liberal arts flagship.

I don't know where you are getting your knowledge but it is lacking.
12-17-2019 08:43 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 08:38 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 04:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Pitt and PSU are claimed to be state-related in reality they give a discount to in state students that amounts to about 10% of the cost. Yankee schools do not have a public origin and therefore are not funded by the public as southern or western schools

True public higher education starts with UGa and UNC and then spread from there and was then boosted by the Morril Grant for Cow Colleges. Unfortunately some schools managed to hijack these grants and this why there was no Georgia or Florida A&M that evolved into an NC State, Michigan State, etc., analog.

No schools hijacked any funds to the best of my knowledge. What was supposed to happen was that UGA, UNC, UVA, 'Bama, etc. were supposed to have agriculture departments. 'Bama, UNC, Texas, etc. all said heck no, we don't want farmers on our campuses!! UGA, UF, Arkansas, LSU, etc. said no problem, we will take the farmers and start ag departments. This is why you have Auburn, NC State, Virginia Tech, etc., and why there aren't any in Georgia, Louisiana, etc. Florida is a weird case because even though they agreed to teach farmers agriculture, for some reason, the state of Florida wanted a major liberal arts university like how UF used to be, so FSU was established. Similar situation in Arizona with U of Arizona being the ag school and Arizona State being the state liberal arts flagship.

The Morrill Act that created land grant institutions was passed during the Civil War, long after UGA, UNC, UVA, etc were created.

I don’t understand the chip on the shoulder that so many of the Land Grant schools seem to exhibit. They have a vital role to play. They’re probably more important to our nation than the so-called flagstaff universities.
12-17-2019 09:12 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
Actually, now that I think about it, there was one school that did hijack funding. Almost forgot about them too, Ohio State University. Miami University was supposed to be the land grant school for Ohio.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 10:23 PM by DawgNBama.)
12-17-2019 10:18 PM
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 08:43 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 08:38 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 04:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Pitt and PSU are claimed to be state-related in reality they give a discount to in state students that amounts to about 10% of the cost. Yankee schools do not have a public origin and therefore are not funded by the public as southern or western schools

True public higher education starts with UGa and UNC and then spread from there and was then boosted by the Morril Grant for Cow Colleges. Unfortunately some schools managed to hijack these grants and this why there was no Georgia or Florida A&M that evolved into an NC State, Michigan State, etc., analog.

No schools hijacked any funds to the best of my knowledge. What was supposed to happen was that UGA, UNC, UVA, 'Bama, etc. were supposed to have agriculture departments. 'Bama, UNC, Texas, etc. all said heck no, we don't want farmers on our campuses!! UGA, UF, Arkansas, LSU, etc. said no problem, we will take the farmers and start ag departments. This is why you have Auburn, NC State, Virginia Tech, etc., and why there aren't any in Georgia, Louisiana, etc. Florida is a weird case because even though they agreed to teach farmers agriculture, for some reason, the state of Florida wanted a major liberal arts university like how UF used to be, so FSU was established. Similar situation in Arizona with U of Arizona being the ag school and Arizona State being the state liberal arts flagship.

I don't know where you are getting your knowledge but it is lacking.

It may have had to do with how much $$'s each state had to play with. Georgia had a lot of destruction after the war between the States. U of SC used to have an ah school.
12-17-2019 10:25 PM
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
FSU is actually oldest school in Florida, then the school “West of the Suwannee river” was established in Gainesville. The only ag school in Florida that I know of is Florida A&M, in Tallahassee, but separate from FSU.
12-17-2019 10:45 PM
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RE: Should Georgia Tech be transformed into a state-related school or how much should GT
(12-17-2019 08:27 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 08:20 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  GaTech could be privatized, ie no state dollars or partially privatized which would be receiving much less state $$'s than Georgia Southern, for example.

That would require the GA Legislature to cede all USG holdings at Georgia Tech to Georgia Tech. Why would they do that? Given that it's a political chamber I would imagine they would oppose it explicitly to assist the UGAg athletic program and to prevent any future additional competition.
That's very sad that UGA would do that, but sadly, nothing surprises me these days either. All USG holdings/buildings/etc. @ GT SHOULD go to GT!! If GT wants to build a medical school, they should be allowed to do so. And I'm saying this as a UGA fan.
12-18-2019 12:38 AM
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