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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #1
Huge Revelation
The sky is blue

and Duke pays players

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/...cid=HPCDHP
09-15-2019 11:07 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Huge Revelation
Just like UCLA did back in the day.


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09-15-2019 11:45 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation




It's easy to make accusations, but running your mouth without documented proof can get you in trouble.
For a school with Duke's resources, $200K sounds cheap.
09-16-2019 04:52 AM
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Garrettabc Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
I would not be surprised. I’d trust Gilbert’s word over most others since he is well connected in the NBA. This should lead to an investigation, but I have doubts it will.
09-16-2019 06:17 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
It's hard to imagine that there are any schools that aren't paying players except schools that aren't getting any of them. Only the staunchest or most gullible fan can convince himself that his school is the only "clean" one out there.

There aren't any saints in sports.
09-16-2019 07:08 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-16-2019 04:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  



It's easy to make accusations, but running your mouth without documented proof can get you in trouble.
For a school with Duke's resources, $200K sounds cheap.

I don't believe that Arenas said Duke only paid two players. Just that $200K went to two players he knows about. A lot of one and dones have come through Duke that didn't come from rich families. Just like Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, Michigan State, Arizona and others.
09-16-2019 07:13 AM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
Yawn...

There could be video of Krizooski handing a recruit a gold bar and the NCAA would never do anything to them.
09-16-2019 08:02 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
Yes, I do believe a kid would choose Duke over Kentucky. His chances of making the NBA are about the same but he has the potential to get a degree from a top-10 university. A 1-and-done might feel he could skate through 1 year easier at Kentucky?

I said when the Adidas story came out that Nike wasn't far behind. Nike has more experience at it but they are probably in deeper than the others.
09-16-2019 02:01 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-16-2019 07:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  It's hard to imagine that there are any schools that aren't paying players except schools that aren't getting any of them. Only the staunchest or most gullible fan can convince himself that his school is the only "clean" one out there.

There aren't any saints in sports.
There are clean programs out there. The trouble is most of those aren't ranked.

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09-16-2019 03:24 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-16-2019 03:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 07:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  It's hard to imagine that there are any schools that aren't paying players except schools that aren't getting any of them. Only the staunchest or most gullible fan can convince himself that his school is the only "clean" one out there.

There aren't any saints in sports.
There are clean programs out there. The trouble is most of those aren't ranked.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using CSNbbs mobile app

I can only say that whatever clean programs there might be aren't clean because they are more virtuous. They are clean because they lack other assets as an institution that would make them successful as cheaters if they were to try.

It's like a man who doesn't cheat on his wife only because he is too ugly, stupid, poor and/or smelly to find another woman who would have him.
09-16-2019 03:42 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-16-2019 03:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  I can only say that whatever clean programs there might be aren't clean because they are more virtuous. They are clean because they lack other assets as an institution that would make them successful as cheaters if they were to try.

It's like a man who doesn't cheat on his wife only because he is too ugly, stupid, poor and/or smelly to find another woman who would have him.

Cheating is cultural. You're not going to find administrators writing checks at AFA, Navy, Army, Wake, GT, BC, ND, Northwestern, or Stanford. It's not an exhaustive list but it gives you a flavor. That's not to say it's all above board. The NCAA holds the schools accountable for the fans. So if you have a fan willing to hand money to a recruit ... you've got a problem. This is the source of GT's sole probation (thanks much to Dan Radakovich for forcefully inserting himself into the investigation by telling all the students to tell the truth ... and thanks to the NCAA for considering this tampering with an investigation and elevating all charges to another level against GT. Both can jump off a bridge for all I care.) Some of those listed have vast curriculum sets that also give them places to hide players. Stanford has the "Easy A List" the football team got in trouble for circulating. Probably half the GT football team is in the business school instead of the traditional STEM heavy degree paths, though the business school at GT is no laughing matter and you won't be getting a 4.0 for underwater basket weaving like at most of the SEC.

There are a handful of programs that keep it clean to the best of their ability. But probably only 1 out of 3 of those manage to field a competitive product on the football field more often than not.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2019 03:58 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
09-16-2019 03:57 PM
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colohank Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-16-2019 03:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 07:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  It's hard to imagine that there are any schools that aren't paying players except schools that aren't getting any of them. Only the staunchest or most gullible fan can convince himself that his school is the only "clean" one out there.

There aren't any saints in sports.
There are clean programs out there. The trouble is most of those aren't ranked.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using CSNbbs mobile app

I can only say that whatever clean programs there might be aren't clean because they are more virtuous. They are clean because they lack other assets as an institution that would make them successful as cheaters if they were to try.

It's like a man who doesn't cheat on his wife only because he is too ugly, stupid, poor and/or smelly to find another woman who would have him.

That's a dark and pessimistic assertion. If nobody abides by the rules, and if everybody knows that every institution is cheating and does nothing about it, then why have rules at all? Disband the NCAA! Abandon hope all ye who lack the financial resources to compete with the rich and corrupt!

What satisfaction, other than cash under the table or fifteen minutes of fame, accrues from cheating?
09-19-2019 10:20 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Huge Revelation
(09-16-2019 04:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  



It's easy to make accusations, but running your mouth without documented proof can get you in trouble.
For a school with Duke's resources, $200K sounds cheap.

Of all people you should not be talking.

Roy and K don't have to deal directly with slimeballs, relatives, and payoffs. There are alumni and hangers-on that do that in Duke's and UNC's interest. Duke hides behind privacy. Carolina used to hide through intimidation.

It's not just "fanboy" money or interest like UCLA in the day. There are certain legiitmate business interests that want UNC and Duke to have a high profile athletic program and they in turn make money off the events, merchandise, etc. The gurantee of a post playing reward is as valuable as a little walking around money up front.
09-19-2019 12:07 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-16-2019 03:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 07:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  It's hard to imagine that there are any schools that aren't paying players except schools that aren't getting any of them. Only the staunchest or most gullible fan can convince himself that his school is the only "clean" one out there.

There aren't any saints in sports.
There are clean programs out there. The trouble is most of those aren't ranked.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using CSNbbs mobile app

I can only say that whatever clean programs there might be aren't clean because they are more virtuous. They are clean because they lack other assets as an institution that would make them successful as cheaters if they were to try.

It's like a man who doesn't cheat on his wife only because he is too ugly, stupid, poor and/or smelly to find another woman who would have him.

Dead on
09-19-2019 12:08 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-19-2019 10:20 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 07:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  It's hard to imagine that there are any schools that aren't paying players except schools that aren't getting any of them. Only the staunchest or most gullible fan can convince himself that his school is the only "clean" one out there.

There aren't any saints in sports.
There are clean programs out there. The trouble is most of those aren't ranked.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using CSNbbs mobile app

I can only say that whatever clean programs there might be aren't clean because they are more virtuous. They are clean because they lack other assets as an institution that would make them successful as cheaters if they were to try.

It's like a man who doesn't cheat on his wife only because he is too ugly, stupid, poor and/or smelly to find another woman who would have him.

That's a dark and pessimistic assertion. If nobody abides by the rules, and if everybody knows that every institution is cheating and does nothing about it, then why have rules at all? Disband the NCAA! Abandon hope all ye who lack the financial resources to compete with the rich and corrupt!

What satisfaction, other than cash under the table or fifteen minutes of fame, accrues from cheating?

It's called "the world". In the world people cheat to get ahead. Nice guys usually finish last. Chivlary is dead.


Here's what big money and influence do:

In the late 1940's Carolina made Choo Choo Justice the highest paid football player in the nation, gave him a new car as well. Carolina booster were damn proud of the arrangement. The NCAA never came calling.

In 1956, NC State had recruited the number 2, 3, 4, and 6 recruit in the nation for the second half of Coach Case's dynasty. Jackie Moreland, who Adoph Rupp wanted, was married and the girl was brilliant and ended up with at least a degree in nursing and IIRC became a medical doctor. NC State offered to get the girl a scholarship at State as well as Jackie. For this illegal inducement of offereing a scholarship to a girl who could earn a scholorship most anywhere NC State was given a 4 year all sports probation, costing us the 1957 Orange Bowl in football. The NCAA infractions committee was chaired by a UK buddy of Rupp.

As Ken pointed out, big money causes people to look the other way and lie about what they know to be the truth - some money and resources just get you body slamed.
09-19-2019 12:15 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-19-2019 12:15 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 10:20 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 07:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  It's hard to imagine that there are any schools that aren't paying players except schools that aren't getting any of them. Only the staunchest or most gullible fan can convince himself that his school is the only "clean" one out there.

There aren't any saints in sports.
There are clean programs out there. The trouble is most of those aren't ranked.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using CSNbbs mobile app

I can only say that whatever clean programs there might be aren't clean because they are more virtuous. They are clean because they lack other assets as an institution that would make them successful as cheaters if they were to try.

It's like a man who doesn't cheat on his wife only because he is too ugly, stupid, poor and/or smelly to find another woman who would have him.

That's a dark and pessimistic assertion. If nobody abides by the rules, and if everybody knows that every institution is cheating and does nothing about it, then why have rules at all? Disband the NCAA! Abandon hope all ye who lack the financial resources to compete with the rich and corrupt!

What satisfaction, other than cash under the table or fifteen minutes of fame, accrues from cheating?

It's called "the world". In the world people cheat to get ahead. Nice guys usually finish last. Chivlary is dead.


Here's what big money and influence do:

In the late 1940's Carolina made Choo Choo Justice the highest paid football player in the nation, gave him a new car as well. Carolina booster were damn proud of the arrangement. The NCAA never came calling.

In 1956, NC State had recruited the number 2, 3, 4, and 6 recruit in the nation for the second half of Coach Case's dynasty. Jackie Moreland, who Adoph Rupp wanted, was married and the girl was brilliant and ended up with at least a degree in nursing and IIRC became a medical doctor. NC State offered to get the girl a scholarship at State as well as Jackie. For this illegal inducement of offereing a scholarship to a girl who could earn a scholorship most anywhere NC State was given a 4 year all sports probation, costing us the 1957 Orange Bowl in football. The NCAA infractions committee was chaired by a UK buddy of Rupp.

As Ken pointed out, big money causes people to look the other way and lie about what they know to be the truth - some money and resources just get you body slamed.

One can always count on a State fan...........It's always something or somebody that has held NCSU back. These "somethings", which seem to happen a lot, have kept the Wolfpack from being the ACC's premier institution/athletic power.
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2019 12:48 PM by XLance.)
09-19-2019 12:47 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Huge Revelation
(09-19-2019 10:20 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 07:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  It's hard to imagine that there are any schools that aren't paying players except schools that aren't getting any of them. Only the staunchest or most gullible fan can convince himself that his school is the only "clean" one out there.

There aren't any saints in sports.
There are clean programs out there. The trouble is most of those aren't ranked.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using CSNbbs mobile app

I can only say that whatever clean programs there might be aren't clean because they are more virtuous. They are clean because they lack other assets as an institution that would make them successful as cheaters if they were to try.

It's like a man who doesn't cheat on his wife only because he is too ugly, stupid, poor and/or smelly to find another woman who would have him.

That's a dark and pessimistic assertion. If nobody abides by the rules, and if everybody knows that every institution is cheating and does nothing about it, then why have rules at all? Disband the NCAA! Abandon hope all ye who lack the financial resources to compete with the rich and corrupt!

What satisfaction, other than cash under the table or fifteen minutes of fame, accrues from cheating?

Pessimistic? Absolutely. But when you get to be my age, it's hard to find something to be optimistic about. I've often heard it said in NASCAR circles that "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't racin'". I don't believe I've ever heard anyone within NASCAR challenge that assertion.

I suspect if you were to poll Americans you would find that many, if not most of us believe that the NCAA and its rules that are being broken are what is corrupt - not the breaking of them. We have come to view the under the table payment of athletes to be simply the free market system at work. And we're all about free markets.

Pessimistic? Guilty. Cynical? Even more guilty. Honesty is no longer something we expect from our fellow Americans, and with good reason. We assume everyone who disagrees with us politically is lying, and we're usually right - no matter what side of the political divide we are on. We have the spectacle of a national news organization asserting in court that it has no obligation to be truthful. The other day we saw a candidate for the United States Senate assert the same thing, and testify under oath that the only thing making him be truthful is the threat of going to jail for lying.

So, yes. I am pessimistic that behavior that is so pervasive in American culture could somehow be kept out of sports. We cheat, and we do it because we have learned that cheating pays.

Now, how do I get down off this soapbox?
09-19-2019 01:07 PM
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Garrettabc Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Huge Revelation
I remember finding out that wrasslin was fake. My dad told me it was from the beginning and I should have known from the very beginning, but ignorance was bliss. I was about 11 years old and The Undertaker was just starting out. He beat up the Ultimate Warrior and locked him in the casket for a good 10 minutes or more. Meanwhile the announcers were panicking saying “get him out of there”, “that casket is air tight”, so when the WWF crew was finally able to get it open The UW was laying there lifeless/dead. I knew that they would not show someone dying on tv purposely with kids watching. That was my revelation that wrasslin was fake and took a lot of joy from it. Collegiate sports and ameuterism is dead, it’s taken the shine off football and basketball. I’m now kinda hoping that women’s basketball and men’s baseball stay non-revenue, I really want to believe corruption has not touched them yet.
09-19-2019 01:34 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Huge Revelation
Paying players may soon be mandatory by state or federal law. What can/could the NCAA do about this?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...e-athletes

Sen. Kevin Parker proposed a bill earlier this week that would give college athletes the ability to sell the rights to their own names, images and likenesses. Parker told ESPN on Wednesday that he has since added an amendment that would require college athletic departments to give a 15% share of annual revenue to student-athletes.

***

Parker said he modeled his initial proposal after California's Fair Pay to Play Act, which passed the state's assembly and senate with unanimous votes earlier this month. The California bill would make it illegal for colleges in that state to take away an athlete's scholarship or eligibility as punishment for accepting endorsement money. California Gov. Gavin Newsom will decide sometime in the next month whether to sign the bill into law.




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(This post was last modified: 09-19-2019 03:00 PM by Lenvillecards.)
09-19-2019 02:52 PM
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