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Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #1
Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
Sorry to revisit the history again but it seems like there are still a lot of people who would welcome WVU.

Realistically speaking, WVU has a zero chance to join the ACC at this point. But back in 2012 the ACC was at a real pinch and a strange thing could happen. A few questions:

1. If both WVU and Louisville were available, would the ACC have invited WVU over Louisville in 2012?
2. If Louisville joined the Big 12 in 2012 instead of WVU, would the ACC have invited WVU over UConn or UC?
3. If WVU had accepted the invitation to the Big 12 in 2011 but didn't join the Big 12 in 2012 (I remember WVU had a legal fight with the Big East to leave early), would the WVU have tried to be invited by the ACC in 2012?

My guess is no, yes, no but I would like to hear from the experts.
04-14-2019 11:43 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
I think you have it nailed. Lot of positive push for UL. I'm glad UL is in our league. WVU can come in if ND joins on the FB side.

Until then WVU made their bed. Enjoy ESPN+
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2019 12:11 PM by TexanMark.)
04-14-2019 12:11 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
West Virginia can easily get an ACC invite the day after they finish eliminating the WVU past time of throwing D cell batteries from the stands and have an academic standing higher than state-level-JuCo.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2019 01:34 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
04-14-2019 01:34 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
If FSU and Clemson demanded WVU or else the jump to the Big 12, like they demanded Louisville, then WVU would be in the ACC. Under your what if guide lines.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2019 02:46 PM by ChrisLords.)
04-14-2019 02:45 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
1. Louisville.
2. WV would have been at the top of that limited list.
3. Probably not. The old ACC had issues with WV. WV's former conference mates in the ACC were not promoting WV. I'd go as far as saying the oBE schools were opposed to WV. WV didn't do itself any favors when it went nuclear saying they would be playing in the B12 the next year no matter what. Not the kind of player you want on your team.

FWIW, I think Louisville probably had a similar offer from the B12 but chose to honor the terms of their contract with the oBE.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2019 08:46 AM by Wolfman.)
04-14-2019 07:33 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  If FSU and Clemson demanded WVU or else the jump to the Big 12, like they demanded Louisville, then WVU would be in the ACC. Under your what if guide lines.

FSU and Clemson didn't demand Louisville, they expressed displeasure in the possibility of inviting UConn.
04-14-2019 07:41 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-14-2019 07:33 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  ...The old ACC had issues with WV. WV's former conference mates in the ACC were not promoting WV. I'd go as far as saying the oBE schools were opposed to WV. WV didn't do itself any favors when it went nuclear saying they would be playing in the B12 the next year no matter. Not the kind of player you want on your team.

FWIW, I think Louisville probably had a similar offer from the B12 but chose to honor the terms of their contract with the oBE.

Excellent points. WVU has made a bad habit of burning couches bridges.

(04-14-2019 07:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  If FSU and Clemson demanded WVU or else the jump to the Big 12, like they demanded Louisville, then WVU would be in the ACC. Under your what if guide lines.

FSU and Clemson didn't demand Louisville, they expressed displeasure in the possibility of inviting UConn.

Another excellent point. There were probably other candidates who could've gotten Louisville's spot - just not another basketball-only/football-dead-weight.
04-14-2019 10:12 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-14-2019 07:33 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  FWIW, I think Louisville probably had a similar offer from the B12 but chose to honor the terms of their contract with the oBE.

That’s definitely untrue. If you’ll recall, Joe Manchin and Mitch McConnell basically had a open knife fight over the issue. There’s no way McConnell would have gone to bat so openly for Louisville if they planned on honoring their contract with the dying Big East.

Also, who can blame them? At the time, there was no clear viable route into a Power 5 conference. Nobody knew Maryland and Rutgers were going to defect to the Big Ten. Louisville and West Virginia were playing for keeps because the fear of the time was that whoever was the bridesmaid there within the loop relegated to second division status as has happened with Cincinnati, Connecticut, USF, etc.

As for the original question, I think if the timing had worked out a little differently, West Virginia would’ve been chosen ahead of Louisville for the ACC for the same reasons that West Virginia was chosen ahead of Louisville for the Big 12.

Remember, the ACC was desperate for on field quality and they needed all the football credibility they could get. If Florida State and Clemson were driving that bus, and I believe they were, then they would’ve chosen the Mountaineers, whose recent and long-term history are each definitely superior to Louisville‘s.

Also, by bringing in West Virginia, the ACC would have immediately had a legitimately major rivalry in the Backyard Brawl.

Don’t get me wrong, their fans can be absolutely ridiculous and I certainly don’t shed any tears for their plight. However, I do believe in calling a spade a spade and that’s how I think it very likely would’ve gone down.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2019 11:12 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
04-14-2019 11:08 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-14-2019 11:08 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 07:33 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  FWIW, I think Louisville probably had a similar offer from the B12 but chose to honor the terms of their contract with the oBE.

That’s definitely untrue. If you’ll recall, Joe Manchin and Mitch McConnell basically had a open knife fight over the issue. There’s no way McConnell would have gone to bat so openly for Louisville if they planned on honoring their contract with the dying Big East.

Also, who can blame them? At the time, there was no clear viable route into a Power 5 conference. Nobody knew Maryland and Rutgers were going to defect to the Big Ten. Louisville and West Virginia were playing for keeps because the fear of the time was that whoever was the bridesmaid there within the loop relegated to second division status as has happened with Cincinnati, Connecticut, USF, etc.

As for the original question, I think if the timing had worked out a little differently, West Virginia would’ve been chosen ahead of Louisville for the ACC for the same reasons that West Virginia was chosen ahead of Louisville for the Big 12.

Remember, the ACC was desperate for on field quality and they needed all the football credibility they could get. If Florida State and Clemson were driving that bus, and I believe they were, then they would’ve chosen the Mountaineers, whose recent and long-term history are each definitely superior to Louisville‘s.

Also, by bringing in West Virginia, the ACC would have immediately had a legitimately major rivalry in the Backyard Brawl.

Don’t get me wrong, their fans can be absolutely ridiculous and I certainly don’t shed any tears for their plight. However, I do believe in calling a spade a spade and that’s how I think it very likely would’ve gone down.

I definitely disagree. I do remember the McConnell thing. I don't believe that had any basis in reality. It was just a couple of politicians vying for air time.

I can't find the article now because there is so many hits about the "scandal," however, there was an article where Jurich discussed the move to the ACC. He was on vacation when he got the word that Maryland was leaving the ACC. He went into overdrive to get Louisville at the top of the list. He stated (paraphrasing) that there were discussions with the B12 but the price was too high. He was not going to let this opportunity get away.
04-15-2019 09:13 AM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
1. WVU - it has history with many ACC (both new and old) schools.
2. WVU - UConn had no chance.
3. WVU - Oliver Luck would've wrapped himself around John Swofford like a wet towel.
04-15-2019 03:43 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 03:43 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  1. WVU - it has history with many ACC (both new and old) schools.
2. WVU - UConn had no chance.
3. WVU - Oliver Luck would've wrapped himself around John Swofford like a wet towel.

If you are correct, WVU really missed the boat.

But I wonder how much the historical relationship would have played in favor of WVU. It does seem like old guard at ACC value the relationship and the loyalty. VT had a good relationship and had been openly seeking an invitation from the ACC for 30+ years, which they finally received in 2004. On the other hand there are schools that would never receive an invitation no matter how much relationship they have with the ACC. ECU would be an example.
04-15-2019 04:28 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 03:43 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  1. WVU - it has history with many ACC (both new and old) schools.
2. WVU - UConn had no chance.
3. WVU - Oliver Luck would've wrapped himself around John Swofford like a wet towel.

Eww. That just doesn't sound right at all!
04-15-2019 05:08 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
Most of the old ACC had very little experience with WVU. (Clemson-2 games, Georgia Tech-3 games, FSU-3 games, NC State-10 games, Wake Forest-2 games, Carolina-2 games, Duke-4 games, UVa-23 games).
04-15-2019 07:00 PM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 07:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  Most of the old ACC had very little experience with WVU. (Clemson-2 games, Georgia Tech-3 games, FSU-3 games, NC State-10 games, Wake Forest-2 games, Carolina-2 games, Duke-4 games, UVa-23 games).
Surprised UNC played WVU only twice because I thought UNC was the ACC school that WVU could count on for support of its application for ACC membership.
04-15-2019 07:38 PM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 04:28 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 03:43 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  1. WVU - it has history with many ACC (both new and old) schools.
2. WVU - UConn had no chance.
3. WVU - Oliver Luck would've wrapped himself around John Swofford like a wet towel.

If you are correct, WVU really missed the boat.

But I wonder how much the historical relationship would have played in favor of WVU. It does seem like old guard at ACC value the relationship and the loyalty. VT had a good relationship and had been openly seeking an invitation from the ACC for 30+ years, which they finally received in 2004. On the other hand there are schools that would never receive an invitation no matter how much relationship they have with the ACC. ECU would be an example.
I think WVU is doing fine in the Big 12. They’ve shown they belong in the P5 and will land on their feet when another round of conference realignment occurs.
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XLance Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 07:38 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 07:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  Most of the old ACC had very little experience with WVU. (Clemson-2 games, Georgia Tech-3 games, FSU-3 games, NC State-10 games, Wake Forest-2 games, Carolina-2 games, Duke-4 games, UVa-23 games).
Surprised UNC played WVU only twice because I thought UNC was the ACC school that WVU could count on for support of its application for ACC membership.


Both of the games Carolina played against West Virginia were in bowl matchups.
04-15-2019 07:45 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 07:38 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 07:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  Most of the old ACC had very little experience with WVU. (Clemson-2 games, Georgia Tech-3 games, FSU-3 games, NC State-10 games, Wake Forest-2 games, Carolina-2 games, Duke-4 games, UVa-23 games).
Surprised UNC played WVU only twice because I thought UNC was the ACC school that WVU could count on for support of its application for ACC membership.

Conversely, the old Big East teams know WVU well.

ND vowed to never play in Morgantown again after the Mountaineer fans' behavior at a game there in 2000.
04-15-2019 08:24 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
Quote from the original post "Realistically speaking, WVU has a zero chance to join the ACC at this point."
04-15-2019 08:35 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 09:13 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I definitely disagree. I do remember the McConnell thing. I don't believe that had any basis in reality. It was just a couple of politicians vying for air time.

I can't find the article now because there is so many hits about the "scandal," however, there was an article where Jurich discussed the move to the ACC. He was on vacation when he got the word that Maryland was leaving the ACC. He went into overdrive to get Louisville at the top of the list. He stated (paraphrasing) that there were discussions with the B12 but the price was too high. He was not going to let this opportunity get away.

I’m sorry but there’s just no way that Louisville would’ve voluntarily given up the final seat on the last plane out of Hanoi to honor their agreement with the old Big East, with whom they really only had a very brief relationship.

That’s nice propaganda for them and I certainly understand why they would wish to paint things that way, but it’s also just completely ludicrous. If that did happen, then Tom Jurich should’ve been fired then because that would have been an absurd dereliction of duties.

Remember, at the time, nobody could’ve possibly known that Maryland was going to leave for the Big Ten, so, as far as Louisville was concerned they were facing the same fate as that which ultimately befell schools like UConn, Cincinnati and USF.

There’s just no way in hell they voluntarily passed on what for all the world looked like the last P5 spot available for a long, long time out of some sort of misplaced sense of chivalry for a league that everyone could see was dying on the vine.

The sad truth was that the Big East was dead the minute Miami and Boston College announced they were leaving. Virginia Tech’s departure just did further irrevocable damage. By the time Pitt and Syracuse left, that was all she wrote for the once proud but deeply flawed league.

At that point, everyone was doing everything they could to get the hell out of Dodge. If everyone else who had options was tripping all over themselves to leave and Louisville was fighting to stay, then they had horrific leadership.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2019 11:08 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
04-15-2019 10:53 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 10:53 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 09:13 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I definitely disagree. I do remember the McConnell thing. I don't believe that had any basis in reality. It was just a couple of politicians vying for air time.

I can't find the article now because there is so many hits about the "scandal," however, there was an article where Jurich discussed the move to the ACC. He was on vacation when he got the word that Maryland was leaving the ACC. He went into overdrive to get Louisville at the top of the list. He stated (paraphrasing) that there were discussions with the B12 but the price was too high. He was not going to let this opportunity get away.

I’m sorry but there’s just no way that Louisville would’ve voluntarily given up the final seat on the last plane out of Hanoi to honor their agreement with the old Big East, with whom they really only had a very brief relationship.

That’s nice propaganda for them and I certainly understand why they would wish to paint things that way, but it’s also just completely ludicrous. If that did happen, then Tom Jurich should’ve been fired then because that would be an absurd dereliction of duties.

Remember, nobody could’ve known that Maryland was going to leave for the Big Ten, so, as far as Louisville was concerned they were facing the same fate as that which ultimately befell schools like UConn, Cincinnati and USF.

There’s just no way in hell they voluntarily passed on what for all the world looked like the last P5 spot available for a long, long time.

Unless the ACC had told Louisville that perhaps Maryland would be moving to the big 10 soon. They had to know something, they rushed that conference buy out fee.
04-15-2019 10:57 PM
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