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Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Online
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Post: #21
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
Yeah, if the ACC was clairvoyant and/or was tipped off by Maryland that they were about to be betrayed by their former longtime partner, and everyone kept that secret, then yes, maybe that narrative makes some sense. However, let’s be real here; that’s fantasy island stuff.

Louisville was added so quickly because Florida State and Clemson were calling the shots and Louisville was a better football program than Connecticut, the only other realistic candidate at the time.

Had Maryland defected a year earlier, West Virginia would’ve been the best football program on the market and they would’ve been the ACC’s choice; and Louisville would be in the Big 12 right now.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2019 11:15 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
04-15-2019 11:15 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 11:15 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Yeah, if the ACC was clairvoyant and/or was tipped off by Maryland that they were about to be betrayed by their former longtime partner, and everyone kept that secret, then yes, maybe that narrative makes some sense. However, let’s be real here; that’s fantasy island stuff.

Louisville was added so quickly because Florida State and Clemson were calling the shots and Louisville was a better football program than Connecticut, the only other realistic candidate at the time.

Had Maryland defected a year earlier, West Virginia would’ve been the best football program on the market and they would’ve been the ACC’s choice; and Louisville would be in the Big 12 right now.

I agree WVU had a better name recognition back in 2012. But the "Never WVU" mentality was still there. Louisville had a solid basketball program and a good enough football program. Would FSU and Clemson have strongly pushed for WVU over Louisville?
04-16-2019 01:45 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #23
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 11:15 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Yeah, if the ACC was clairvoyant and/or was tipped off by Maryland that they were about to be betrayed by their former longtime partner, and everyone kept that secret, then yes, maybe that narrative makes some sense. However, let’s be real here; that’s fantasy island stuff.

Louisville was added so quickly because Florida State and Clemson were ESPN was calling the shots and Louisville was a better football program than Connecticut, the only other realistic candidate at the time.

Had Maryland defected a year earlier, West Virginia would’ve been the best football program on the market and they would’ve been the ACC’s choice; and Louisville would be in the Big 12 right now.

FIFY
04-16-2019 04:23 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
According to SBNation, the ACC was considering 4 schools to replace Maryland (with WVU off the board because of the Big XII GoR): Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and USF.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...eplacement
04-16-2019 06:24 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
USF over UCF is bizarre.
04-16-2019 08:01 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #26
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-16-2019 08:01 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  USF over UCF is bizarre.

In retrospect, yes I agree. However at the time UCF was in C-USA at the time and USF was in the Big East coming off some years were they were ranked at various points.

This being said, after spending the past 5 years in a conference with UCF they are > than USF across the board: better football, better basketball, better at Olympic Sports, better fan support, more market penetration in the city, on campus football stadium, better media coverage etc.
04-16-2019 08:16 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 07:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  Most of the old ACC had very little experience with WVU. (Clemson-2 games, Georgia Tech-3 games, FSU-3 games, NC State-10 games, Wake Forest-2 games, Carolina-2 games, Duke-4 games, UVa-23 games).

West Virginia played Duke in basketball every year for almost 20 years from 1950-1970. In 2012, WVU would have played both NC State and Virginia 13 times.

UMd would have been their most played opponent, ironically the team they would have replaced.

The funny thing is how well they would have fit in BC’s original spot: Turkey Day weekend vs UMd and a cross-division game vs. VaTech.
04-16-2019 08:45 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-16-2019 06:24 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  According to SBNation, the ACC was considering 4 schools to replace Maryland (with WVU off the board because of the Big XII GoR): Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and USF.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...eplacement

The only realistic candidates were UConn and Louisville.

South Florida was definitely not a candidate.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2019 08:55 AM by esayem.)
04-16-2019 08:54 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
The Louisville invite was very similar to the invitation of FSU in that the league decided to capitalize on a deficiency by adding a school with a lower academic profile, but a strong athletic profile. That’s not a knock on Louisville, I’m happy the way it turned out. FSU and Louisville seem to be similar schools and they’ve provided some great battles over the years.

Expansion of the ACC has included all of the following and their 70’s/80’s origins:
Big East/Eastern Independents: BC, Syracuse, and Pitt
Metro/Southern Independents: GaTech, FSU, VaTech, and Louisville
Independent: Notre Dame
Southern Independent: Miami
04-16-2019 09:08 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-16-2019 08:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 06:24 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  According to SBNation, the ACC was considering 4 schools to replace Maryland (with WVU off the board because of the Big XII GoR): Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and USF.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...eplacement

The only realistic candidates were UConn and Louisville.

South Florida was definitely not a candidate.

Cincinnati > UConn.

I'd rank them 1. Louisville, 2. Cincinnati, 3. UConn, 4. USF
04-16-2019 01:13 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-16-2019 01:13 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 08:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 06:24 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  According to SBNation, the ACC was considering 4 schools to replace Maryland (with WVU off the board because of the Big XII GoR): Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and USF.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...eplacement

The only realistic candidates were UConn and Louisville.

South Florida was definitely not a candidate.

Cincinnati > UConn.

I'd rank them 1. Louisville, 2. Cincinnati, 3. UConn, 4. USF

I’d have the same order but only because the ACC already had 2 Florida schools. If it was just 1 Florida school then I’d put USF ahead of UConn.
04-16-2019 08:14 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
This is much more telling:

"ACC hasn't approached anyone about replacing Maryland, but numerous schools contacted ACC about joining ACC, official tells @ESPN"

That's fine and dandy for what you guys think, but it was between UConn and Louisville. Why? They offered the most revenue. Tulane officially reached out to the SEC at least three times in the late 80's, that doesn't mean they were a serious candidate when the SEC decided to expand.

As far as Cincinnati was concerned, I'm not sure what has changed since this, but it appears this was a major factor:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/b...l?page=all
04-16-2019 09:10 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-16-2019 09:10 PM)esayem Wrote:  This is much more telling:

"ACC hasn't approached anyone about replacing Maryland, but numerous schools contacted ACC about joining ACC, official tells @ESPN"

That's fine and dandy for what you guys think, but it was between UConn and Louisville. Why? They offered the most revenue. Tulane officially reached out to the SEC at least three times in the late 80's, that doesn't mean they were a serious candidate when the SEC decided to expand.

As far as Cincinnati was concerned, I'm not sure what has changed since this, but it appears this was a major factor:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/b...l?page=all

The reason I rank UC ahead of UConn is potential. I think UConn is already maxed out, but UC is barely scratching the surface of what they can do. Now, does that mean they WILL... no.
04-16-2019 10:42 PM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
Louisville turned down The Big 12 in August 2011 when the conference starting putting out feelers. Luck admitted jumping into The Big 12 pool when WVU got turned down by The SEC and ACC again in September 2011.

In all his years at UofL I had never seen Tom as pissed as he was when they talked to him on the sideline of the Kentucky game when the story broke of Pitt and Syracuse jumping to The ACC on September 17. Jurich specifically called out Nordenberg from Pitt because he was heading up contract negotiations with ESPN begging everyone to stick together, then he jumped to The ACC.

This after Louisville had told The Big 12 to go take a hike the month before.

To this day the idiots in Morgantown act like Louisville tried to steal their ticket onto the Titanic in October 2011. The reality was Louisville was talking to The Big 12 two months prior. The Louisville Courier Journal reported it.

No worries though, things have a way of working out, karma and all.

As for WVU joining The ACC in the future, I would like to think those nimrods would clean their act up but they won’t. Let them rot in whatever is left of The Big 12. You leave your Big East partners in a bind by failing to give notice by jumping to a conference with your closest conference mate over 860 miles away. Karma she is a itch but she is beautiful.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2019 07:08 AM by CardinalJim.)
04-17-2019 03:14 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-14-2019 07:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  If FSU and Clemson demanded WVU or else the jump to the Big 12, like they demanded Louisville, then WVU would be in the ACC. Under your what if guide lines.

FSU and Clemson didn't demand Louisville, they expressed displeasure in the possibility of inviting UConn.

The message we have heard loud and clear here in Louisville from Tom Jurich and Dr. Ramsey is one simpler than facilities, budgets, athletic accomplishments, brands, fan support, television appeal or anything else that supporters of either university could measure.

Tom Jurich has said plainly that Florida State and Clemson wanted Louisville over UConn. Jurich also said Syracuse worked to get Louisville into The ACC.

A tweet from a local sports reporter from the afternoon Louisville was invited:

Eric Crawford @ericcrawford
Follow
Jurich said UofL's biggest advocates were Florida State, Clemson and Syracuse.
2:50 PM - 28 Nov 2012
25 RETWEETS 1 FAVORITE ReplyRetweetFavorite

Also keep in mind that Louisville had been in a conference with Georgia Tech (’75-78), Florida State (’76-91) and Virginia Tech (’78-'95) before.

Dr. Ramsey had friends at UNC from his days working in Chapel Hill. Jurich is close to the AD at Duke, Kevin White. White worked hard to get Louisville into The Big East while he was at Notre Dame. Jurich publicly stated when Louisville joined The Big East that every Louisville fan should root for Notre Dame because of The Irish support for UofL. I don't think the relationship between UofL and Notre Dame can be over stated. The Irish were very instrumental helping Louisville jump from CUSA to The Big East, finally to The ACC.

Whatever the reason Louisville fans are thankful things worked out the way they did for whatever reason.
04-17-2019 03:25 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-14-2019 11:43 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  Sorry to revisit the history again but it seems like there are still a lot of people who would welcome WVU.

Realistically speaking, WVU has a zero chance to join the ACC at this point. But back in 2012 the ACC was at a real pinch and a strange thing could happen. A few questions:

1. If both WVU and Louisville were available, would the ACC have invited WVU over Louisville in 2012?
2. If Louisville joined the Big 12 in 2012 instead of WVU, would the ACC have invited WVU over UConn or UC?
3. If WVU had accepted the invitation to the Big 12 in 2011 but didn't join the Big 12 in 2012 (I remember WVU had a legal fight with the Big East to leave early), would the WVU have tried to be invited by the ACC in 2012?

My guess is no, yes, no but I would like to hear from the experts.

Louisville was the runner up in the B12's selection process to replace Missouri, so the more likely scenario would have been if Louisville had been selected by the B12 over WVU, leaving the ACC to choose between UConn and WVU. My guess is that WVU would have been invited over UConn for the same reason(s) that Louisville was -- better football program. However, it probably would have been a closer call.

The ACC may have had a choice between Louisville and WVU if the B12 had invited BYU.
04-17-2019 07:45 AM
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Hallcity Online
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Post: #37
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-17-2019 07:45 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 11:43 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  Sorry to revisit the history again but it seems like there are still a lot of people who would welcome WVU.

Realistically speaking, WVU has a zero chance to join the ACC at this point. But back in 2012 the ACC was at a real pinch and a strange thing could happen. A few questions:

1. If both WVU and Louisville were available, would the ACC have invited WVU over Louisville in 2012?
2. If Louisville joined the Big 12 in 2012 instead of WVU, would the ACC have invited WVU over UConn or UC?
3. If WVU had accepted the invitation to the Big 12 in 2011 but didn't join the Big 12 in 2012 (I remember WVU had a legal fight with the Big East to leave early), would the WVU have tried to be invited by the ACC in 2012?

My guess is no, yes, no but I would like to hear from the experts.

Louisville was the runner up in the B12's selection process to replace Missouri, so the more likely scenario would have been if Louisville had been selected by the B12 over WVU, leaving the ACC to choose between UConn and WVU. My guess is that WVU would have been invited over UConn for the same reason(s) that Louisville was -- better football program. However, it probably would have been a closer call.

The ACC may have had a choice between Louisville and WVU if the B12 had invited BYU.

This discussion is ridiculous. West Virginia has about half the population of Connecticut. There's also prejudice against West Virginia -- the "not our class, darling" factor -- that, I'm sure, infuriates residents of the state but it may hurt WVU even more than the state's small population. I'll grant that WVU would be a stronger member than WFU or BC but, still, WVU would never have been under any serious consideration by the ACC. WVU is lucky to be in the B12.
04-17-2019 09:57 AM
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Topcat Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-15-2019 11:15 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Yeah, if the ACC was clairvoyant and/or was tipped off by Maryland that they were about to be betrayed by their former longtime partner, and everyone kept that secret, then yes, maybe that narrative makes some sense. However, let’s be real here; that’s fantasy island stuff.

Louisville was added so quickly because Florida State and Clemson were calling the shots and Louisville was a better football program than Connecticut, the only other realistic candidate at the time.

Had Maryland defected a year earlier, West Virginia would’ve been the best football program on the market and they would’ve been the ACC’s choice; and Louisville would be in the Big 12 right now.

Who's calling the shots now?
04-17-2019 10:06 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-17-2019 03:25 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 07:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  If FSU and Clemson demanded WVU or else the jump to the Big 12, like they demanded Louisville, then WVU would be in the ACC. Under your what if guide lines.

FSU and Clemson didn't demand Louisville, they expressed displeasure in the possibility of inviting UConn.

The message we have heard loud and clear here in Louisville from Tom Jurich and Dr. Ramsey is one simpler than facilities, budgets, athletic accomplishments, brands, fan support, television appeal or anything else that supporters of either university could measure.

Tom Jurich has said plainly that Florida State and Clemson wanted Louisville over UConn. Jurich also said Syracuse worked to get Louisville into The ACC.

A tweet from a local sports reporter from the afternoon Louisville was invited:

Eric Crawford @ericcrawford
Follow
Jurich said UofL's biggest advocates were Florida State, Clemson and Syracuse.
2:50 PM - 28 Nov 2012
25 RETWEETS 1 FAVORITE ReplyRetweetFavorite

Also keep in mind that Louisville had been in a conference with Georgia Tech (’75-78), Florida State (’76-91) and Virginia Tech (’78-'95) before.

Dr. Ramsey had friends at UNC from his days working in Chapel Hill. Jurich is close to the AD at Duke, Kevin White. White worked hard to get Louisville into The Big East while he was at Notre Dame. Jurich publicly stated when Louisville joined The Big East that every Louisville fan should root for Notre Dame because of The Irish support for UofL. I don't think the relationship between UofL and Notre Dame can be over stated. The Irish were very instrumental helping Louisville jump from CUSA to The Big East, finally to The ACC.

Whatever the reason Louisville fans are thankful things worked out the way they did for whatever reason.

Yeah, that would be the Metro Conference. Also keep in mind that Cincy (1975-1991), like Louisville and Georgia Tech, was a charter member of the Metro Conference, which later opened its arms to the likes of Florida State (1976-1991) and Virginia Tech (1978-1995).

How about returning the favor?
04-17-2019 11:01 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Would the ACC have invited WVU in 2012 if it were available?
(04-14-2019 01:34 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  West Virginia can easily get an ACC invite the day after they finish eliminating the WVU past time of throwing D cell batteries from the stands and have an academic standing higher than state-level-JuCo.


No one wishes to dispute this so far. If we can agree this is reality, then WVU is already in control of its own destiny and just doesn't want to do some painful introspective work.
04-17-2019 12:25 PM
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