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Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
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ken d Offline
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Post: #1
Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
In the five years I have been on this forum, I have perceived that many Ga Tech fans aren't very happy with the way they are treated by the ACC. Most recently, some of their fans feel they've been screwed by the league for sending them to the Quick Lane Bowl in Detroit. I have also noted that they often aren't especially happy with their own leadership either. So maybe they just like to complain.

I have seen recent posts suggesting that Tech passed up a chance to join the Big Ten, and that their current AD is talking with other conferences looking for a new home. I don't know if either of those things are true.

Would Tech join another P5 conference if they were invited? And what are the chances they would get invited?
12-03-2018 12:51 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
It's because of the triple option. It's not very popular. In addition, GT doesn't have a good history of fans traveling to bowl games. GT fans never take the time to think maybe the bowls themselves aren't interested. It's not the ACC's fault.
12-03-2018 01:37 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
The ACC satisfies the academic side with Georgia Tech. The only academic slouch is Louisville, and quite a few are elite.
The SEC satisfies the athletic side with Georgia Tech. The only athletic slouch is Vanderbilt, and quite a few are elite.
The B1G does half-sies with both. And comes at the high cost of geographic isolation. They do have the CIC though, which is something neither the ACC or SEC does well.

So ... it depends. The ACC is last among the P5 where it counts (football, revenue). Being last is unsavory when you sold a lot of valuable things up the river (geography, double round robin in hoops, rivalries, etc) to expand. The ACCN needs to be able to convert a TV advantage into dollars. Failure to do so will be destabilizing to the conference. Clemson, FSU, GT, and Louisville are getting outgunned almost $20m/yr just in TV money against in state SEC foes. That matters on facilities. That matters on coaching salaries. That matters on staff sizes. It's not hard to picture a future where Alabama simply writes as big a check as is necessary to hire their own Coach K / Roy Williams and start cleaning up the hardwood too. The cash flow has a trickle down effect through the rest of the sports. But the ACC does have soccer well sewn up .... so for the Ninja Swofford crowd maybe the ACC is just playing the century long CTE game, eh? I don't see anybody -- including the ACC -- pushing for caps and other regulatory reforms to stop this runaway train at the NCAA level. It really matters how well the ACCN does, because TVs is the one revenue generating advantage this conference does have. It doesn't have the 50k+ enrollment factories, and I have my misgivings about those (how many of them are sociology degrees?). It isn't willing to be soulless in the pursuit of wins (Pedo State, Baylor, Jan Kemp, etc), nor should it be. So far the ACCN marketing push has been ..... tepid at best. So at the end of the day if we destroyed several things that defined us as a conference for the sake of TV sets which are then NOT converted into dollars ... then WTF are we even doing?

Feel free to scoff at GT and Louisville if you'd like, but if Clemson and FSU wanted to walk over to the SEC that would probably generate enough money to work. In no small part because the ACC payout would shrink dramatically. And forget your Grant of Rights -- that's an in house move for Fuhrer Mickey. No contractual pain necessary. And it would definitively spell the end of the ACC. If they weren't included in such a move, GT would take whatever lifeline it could at that point including the B1G. Removing Clemson and FSU removes half -- maybe more -- of the reason to stay in the ACC.

If GT could wave a magic wand it would be in a conference consisting of the old SEC East and the ACC's southern flank. A wet dream probably looks like having the SEC west of Alabama go to the Big 12 and then having GT, CU, FSU, Duke, UNC, and VT go the SEC. That depends upon whether the SEC is looking to be short term greedy and disruptive (CU/FSU or TX/OU only) or is truly looking to own the market (some enormous Fuhrer Mickey megaconference).

Regarding the smaller things GT "whines" about -- I noticed after they made media headlines the ACC made rule changes. It took Boston College plummeting from the ACC-CG all the way down to Boise, ID before the first merit based criteria was added to bowl selection. What a concept. And what an embarrassment to send your title game loser all the way out to Boise. The ACC bowl tie-ins are pretty transparently bad when you get into Tier 2. And they've persistently been terrible since expansion. GT played in Blacksburg two years in a row to make the scheduling Gods happy after expansion. To try to rectify the post-expansion scheduling problem (Clemson, VT, UGAg all home/away at the same time) we ate it again playing on the road at Clemson two years in a row. The ACC showed its gratitude by having a parade of byes scheduled. Byes for the opponent that is. UNC and Duke got byes all the time before playing the triple. At least FSU got screwed with byes almost as much. I believe that has now generated a rule change as well.

And lastly no, we weren't particularly happy with Bobinski. Neither was anybody else. Paul Johnson crapped all over him at his retirement presser. He fired all the recruiting extra staff to "save money" ... which is a bit like reaching for a jar of leeches if you're anemic. He was lampooned by the AJC publicly when he fled to Purdue. And the only reason he was hired in the first place is because Bud Peterson cares so little about athletics he let the booster who wrote the check for the new basketball arena decide who the new AD would be. Brilliant move numb nuts. Bud's apathy and Bobinski's ineptitude couldn't have come at a worse time: our two biggest rivals nearing all time highs, the ACC and particularly the Coastal nearing post-expansion lows. With Miami and VT changing staffs that was a Wonka golden ticket to do something in the Coastal if there ever was one. But the proper AD hire came one too late it would seem.
12-03-2018 02:07 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 02:07 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The ACC satisfies the academic side with Georgia Tech. The only academic slouch is Louisville, and quite a few are elite.
The SEC satisfies the athletic side with Georgia Tech. The only athletic slouch is Vanderbilt, and quite a few are elite.
The B1G does half-sies with both. And comes at the high cost of geographic isolation. They do have the CIC though, which is something neither the ACC or SEC does well.

So ... it depends. The ACC is last among the P5 where it counts (football, revenue). Being last is unsavory when you sold a lot of valuable things up the river (geography, double round robin in hoops, rivalries, etc) to expand. The ACCN needs to be able to convert a TV advantage into dollars. Failure to do so will be destabilizing to the conference. Clemson, FSU, GT, and Louisville are getting outgunned almost $20m/yr just in TV money against in state SEC foes. That matters on facilities. That matters on coaching salaries. That matters on staff sizes. It's not hard to picture a future where Alabama simply writes as big a check as is necessary to hire their own Coach K / Roy Williams and start cleaning up the hardwood too. The cash flow has a trickle down effect through the rest of the sports. But the ACC does have soccer well sewn up .... so for the Ninja Swofford crowd maybe the ACC is just playing the century long CTE game, eh? I don't see anybody -- including the ACC -- pushing for caps and other regulatory reforms to stop this runaway train at the NCAA level. It really matters how well the ACCN does, because TVs is the one revenue generating advantage this conference does have. It doesn't have the 50k+ enrollment factories, and I have my misgivings about those (how many of them are sociology degrees?). It isn't willing to be soulless in the pursuit of wins (Pedo State, Baylor, Jan Kemp, etc), nor should it be. So far the ACCN marketing push has been ..... tepid at best. So at the end of the day if we destroyed several things that defined us as a conference for the sake of TV sets which are then NOT converted into dollars ... then WTF are we even doing?

Feel free to scoff at GT and Louisville if you'd like, but if Clemson and FSU wanted to walk over to the SEC that would probably generate enough money to work. In no small part because the ACC payout would shrink dramatically. And forget your Grant of Rights -- that's an in house move for Fuhrer Mickey. No contractual pain necessary. And it would definitively spell the end of the ACC. If they weren't included in such a move, GT would take whatever lifeline it could at that point including the B1G. Removing Clemson and FSU removes half -- maybe more -- of the reason to stay in the ACC.

If GT could wave a magic wand it would be in a conference consisting of the old SEC East and the ACC's southern flank. A wet dream probably looks like having the SEC west of Alabama go to the Big 12 and then having GT, CU, FSU, Duke, UNC, and VT go the SEC. That depends upon whether the SEC is looking to be short term greedy and disruptive (CU/FSU or TX/OU only) or is truly looking to own the market (some enormous Fuhrer Mickey megaconference).

Regarding the smaller things GT "whines" about -- I noticed after they made media headlines the ACC made rule changes. It took Boston College plummeting from the ACC-CG all the way down to Boise, ID before the first merit based criteria was added to bowl selection. What a concept. And what an embarrassment to send your title game loser all the way out to Boise. The ACC bowl tie-ins are pretty transparently bad when you get into Tier 2. And they've persistently been terrible since expansion. GT played in Blacksburg two years in a row to make the scheduling Gods happy after expansion. To try to rectify the post-expansion scheduling problem (Clemson, VT, UGAg all home/away at the same time) we ate it again playing on the road at Clemson two years in a row. The ACC showed its gratitude by having a parade of byes scheduled. Byes for the opponent that is. UNC and Duke got byes all the time before playing the triple. At least FSU got screwed with byes almost as much. I believe that has now generated a rule change as well.

And lastly no, we weren't particularly happy with Bobinski. Neither was anybody else. Paul Johnson crapped all over him at his retirement presser. He fired all the recruiting extra staff to "save money" ... which is a bit like reaching for a jar of leeches if you're anemic. He was lampooned by the AJC publicly when he fled to Purdue. And the only reason he was hired in the first place is because Bud Peterson cares so little about athletics he let the booster who wrote the check for the new basketball arena decide who the new AD would be. Brilliant move numb nuts. Bud's apathy and Bobinski's ineptitude couldn't have come at a worse time: our two biggest rivals nearing all time highs, the ACC and particularly the Coastal nearing post-expansion lows. With Miami and VT changing staffs that was a Wonka golden ticket to do something in the Coastal if there ever was one. But the proper AD hire came one too late it would seem.


Now THIS is a fantastic post. Very well explained.

I'm (like most U of L fans) new to the conference, so a lot of th eACC machinations are still new to me, but it did seem odd how the byes worked against GT in the past. To me that looked like the evidence of the North Carolina Triad (or Quat-trad??) that we always heard people talk about ... like they did about Texas and the Big XII ... exerting it's influence unduly (this is an awkward ass sentence, but jimmy crack corn .... it's Monday, and I'm tired of being coachless, among other things.).

But this post lays it all out very well. Thanks for the synopsis.

Who knows what will drive conference realignment in the future. But I doubt that Georgia Tech is alone in their attitude to their home conference .... I bet there are similar misgivings throughout all 5 P5 conferences.

I do think that GT is a sleeping giant tho. And it has sounded like their new leadership is positioning them well to excel in both big revenue sports going forward. I am not sure why they didn't lobby a little harder for a better bowl option ... but maybe they did, and Swoff said "Whatever". Which would continue to play into the justifiable angst GT has for the ACC.
12-03-2018 02:24 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 02:24 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  [quote='georgia_tech_swagger' pid='15731789' dateline='1543864026']
The ACC satisfies the academic side with Georgia Tech. The only academic slouch is Louisville, and quite a few are elite.
The SEC satisfies the athletic side with Georgia Tech. The only athletic slouch is Vanderbilt, and quite a few are elite.
The B1G does half-sies with both. And comes at the high cost of geographic isolation. They do have the CIC though, which is something neither the ACC or SEC does well.

So ... it depends. The ACC is last among the P5 where it counts (football, revenue). Being last is unsavory when you sold a lot of valuable things up the river (geography, double round robin in hoops, rivalries, etc) to expand. The ACCN needs to be able to convert a TV advantage into dollars. Failure to do so will be destabilizing to the conference. Clemson, FSU, GT, and Louisville are getting outgunned almost $20m/yr just in TV money against in state SEC foes. That matters on facilities. That matters on coaching salaries. That matters on staff sizes. It's not hard to picture a future where Alabama simply writes as big a check as is necessary to hire their own Coach K / Roy Williams and start cleaning up the hardwood too. The cash flow has a trickle down effect through the rest of the sports. But the ACC does have soccer well sewn up .... so for the Ninja Swofford crowd maybe the ACC is just playing the century long CTE game, eh? I don't see anybody -- including the ACC -- pushing for caps and other regulatory reforms to stop this runaway train at the NCAA level. It really matters how well the ACCN does, because TVs is the one revenue generating advantage this conference does have. It doesn't have the 50k+ enrollment factories, and I have my misgivings about those (how many of them are sociology degrees?). It isn't willing to be soulless in the pursuit of wins (Pedo State, Baylor, Jan Kemp, etc), nor should it be. So far the ACCN marketing push has been ..... tepid at best. So at the end of the day if we destroyed several things that defined us as a conference for the sake of TV sets which are then NOT converted into dollars ... then WTF are we even doing?

Feel free to scoff at GT and Louisville if you'd like, but if Clemson and FSU wanted to walk over to the SEC that would probably generate enough money to work. In no small part because the ACC payout would shrink dramatically. And forget your Grant of Rights -- that's an in house move for Fuhrer Mickey. No contractual pain necessary. And it would definitively spell the end of the ACC. If they weren't included in such a move, GT would take whatever lifeline it could at that point including the B1G. Removing Clemson and FSU removes half -- maybe more -- of the reason to stay in the ACC.

If GT could wave a magic wand it would be in a conference consisting of the old SEC East and the ACC's southern flank. A wet dream probably looks like having the SEC west of Alabama go to the Big 12 and then having GT, CU, FSU, Duke, UNC, and VT go the SEC. That depends upon whether the SEC is looking to be short term greedy and disruptive (CU/FSU or TX/OU only) or is truly looking to own the market (some enormous Fuhrer Mickey megaconference).

Regarding the smaller things GT "whines" about -- I noticed after they made media headlines the ACC made rule changes. It took Boston College plummeting from the ACC-CG all the way down to Boise, ID before the first merit based criteria was added to bowl selection. What a concept. And what an embarrassment to send your title game loser all the way out to Boise. The ACC bowl tie-ins are pretty transparently bad when you get into Tier 2. And they've persistently been terrible since expansion. GT played in Blacksburg two years in a row to make the scheduling Gods happy after expansion. To try to rectify the post-expansion scheduling problem (Clemson, VT, UGAg all home/away at the same time) we ate it again playing on the road at Clemson two years in a row. The ACC showed its gratitude by having a parade of byes scheduled. Byes for the opponent that is. UNC and Duke got byes all the time before playing the triple. At least FSU got screwed with byes almost as much. I believe that has now generated a rule change as well.

And lastly no, we weren't particularly happy with Bobinski. Neither was anybody else. Paul Johnson crapped all over him at his retirement presser. He fired all the recruiting extra staff to "save money" ... which is a bit like reaching for a jar of leeches if you're anemic. He was lampooned by the AJC publicly when he fled to Purdue. And the only reason he was hired in the first place is because Bud Peterson cares so little about athletics he let the booster who wrote the check for the new basketball arena decide who the new AD would be. Brilliant move numb nuts. Bud's apathy and Bobinski's ineptitude couldn't have come at a worse time: our two biggest rivals nearing all time highs, the ACC and particularly the Coastal nearing post-expansion lows. With Miami and VT changing staffs that was a Wonka golden ticket to do something in the Coastal if there ever was one. But the proper AD hire came one too late it would seem.

LOL, CIC.
12-03-2018 02:47 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 02:24 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 02:07 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The ACC satisfies the academic side with Georgia Tech. The only academic slouch is Louisville, and quite a few are elite.
The SEC satisfies the athletic side with Georgia Tech. The only athletic slouch is Vanderbilt, and quite a few are elite.
The B1G does half-sies with both. And comes at the high cost of geographic isolation. They do have the CIC though, which is something neither the ACC or SEC does well.

So ... it depends. The ACC is last among the P5 where it counts (football, revenue). Being last is unsavory when you sold a lot of valuable things up the river (geography, double round robin in hoops, rivalries, etc) to expand. The ACCN needs to be able to convert a TV advantage into dollars. Failure to do so will be destabilizing to the conference. Clemson, FSU, GT, and Louisville are getting outgunned almost $20m/yr just in TV money against in state SEC foes. That matters on facilities. That matters on coaching salaries. That matters on staff sizes. It's not hard to picture a future where Alabama simply writes as big a check as is necessary to hire their own Coach K / Roy Williams and start cleaning up the hardwood too. The cash flow has a trickle down effect through the rest of the sports. But the ACC does have soccer well sewn up .... so for the Ninja Swofford crowd maybe the ACC is just playing the century long CTE game, eh? I don't see anybody -- including the ACC -- pushing for caps and other regulatory reforms to stop this runaway train at the NCAA level. It really matters how well the ACCN does, because TVs is the one revenue generating advantage this conference does have. It doesn't have the 50k+ enrollment factories, and I have my misgivings about those (how many of them are sociology degrees?). It isn't willing to be soulless in the pursuit of wins (Pedo State, Baylor, Jan Kemp, etc), nor should it be. So far the ACCN marketing push has been ..... tepid at best. So at the end of the day if we destroyed several things that defined us as a conference for the sake of TV sets which are then NOT converted into dollars ... then WTF are we even doing?

Feel free to scoff at GT and Louisville if you'd like, but if Clemson and FSU wanted to walk over to the SEC that would probably generate enough money to work. In no small part because the ACC payout would shrink dramatically. And forget your Grant of Rights -- that's an in house move for Fuhrer Mickey. No contractual pain necessary. And it would definitively spell the end of the ACC. If they weren't included in such a move, GT would take whatever lifeline it could at that point including the B1G. Removing Clemson and FSU removes half -- maybe more -- of the reason to stay in the ACC.

If GT could wave a magic wand it would be in a conference consisting of the old SEC East and the ACC's southern flank. A wet dream probably looks like having the SEC west of Alabama go to the Big 12 and then having GT, CU, FSU, Duke, UNC, and VT go the SEC. That depends upon whether the SEC is looking to be short term greedy and disruptive (CU/FSU or TX/OU only) or is truly looking to own the market (some enormous Fuhrer Mickey megaconference).

Regarding the smaller things GT "whines" about -- I noticed after they made media headlines the ACC made rule changes. It took Boston College plummeting from the ACC-CG all the way down to Boise, ID before the first merit based criteria was added to bowl selection. What a concept. And what an embarrassment to send your title game loser all the way out to Boise. The ACC bowl tie-ins are pretty transparently bad when you get into Tier 2. And they've persistently been terrible since expansion. GT played in Blacksburg two years in a row to make the scheduling Gods happy after expansion. To try to rectify the post-expansion scheduling problem (Clemson, VT, UGAg all home/away at the same time) we ate it again playing on the road at Clemson two years in a row. The ACC showed its gratitude by having a parade of byes scheduled. Byes for the opponent that is. UNC and Duke got byes all the time before playing the triple. At least FSU got screwed with byes almost as much. I believe that has now generated a rule change as well.

And lastly no, we weren't particularly happy with Bobinski. Neither was anybody else. Paul Johnson crapped all over him at his retirement presser. He fired all the recruiting extra staff to "save money" ... which is a bit like reaching for a jar of leeches if you're anemic. He was lampooned by the AJC publicly when he fled to Purdue. And the only reason he was hired in the first place is because Bud Peterson cares so little about athletics he let the booster who wrote the check for the new basketball arena decide who the new AD would be. Brilliant move numb nuts. Bud's apathy and Bobinski's ineptitude couldn't have come at a worse time: our two biggest rivals nearing all time highs, the ACC and particularly the Coastal nearing post-expansion lows. With Miami and VT changing staffs that was a Wonka golden ticket to do something in the Coastal if there ever was one. But the proper AD hire came one too late it would seem.


Now THIS is a fantastic post. Very well explained.

I'm (like most U of L fans) new to the conference, so a lot of th eACC machinations are still new to me, but it did seem odd how the byes worked against GT in the past. To me that looked like the evidence of the North Carolina Triad (or Quat-trad??) that we always heard people talk about ... like they did about Texas and the Big XII ... exerting it's influence unduly (this is an awkward ass sentence, but jimmy crack corn .... it's Monday, and I'm tired of being coachless, among other things.).

But this post lays it all out very well. Thanks for the synopsis.

Who knows what will drive conference realignment in the future. But I doubt that Georgia Tech is alone in their attitude to their home conference .... I bet there are similar misgivings throughout all 5 P5 conferences.

I do think that GT is a sleeping giant tho. And it has sounded like their new leadership is positioning them well to excel in both big revenue sports going forward. I am not sure why they didn't lobby a little harder for a better bowl option ... but maybe they did, and Swoff said "Whatever". Which would continue to play into the justifiable angst GT has for the ACC.

For the love of Jesus H. Christ, keep NC State out of Duke/UNC machination machine.


GT is paying the price for past mistakes.

1. Calculus
2. Triple Option Offense in Football
3. Paul Hewitt Basketball contract


Most wounds in the ACC are self inflicted and only then do the usual suspects appear to take advantage.


GT has three structural problems:

1. They exist in a pro town unlike most other SEC/ACC/B10 schools - they are 4th fiddle in their hometown
2. They are a graduate/STEM/very heavy research institution they do not have the social sciences curriculum to hide abject morons. Even their partnerships are with the likes of Emory
3. The State of Georgia heavily favors UGa
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2018 03:58 PM by Statefan.)
12-03-2018 03:52 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 03:52 PM)Statefan Wrote:  For the love of Jesus H. Christ, keep NC State out of Duke/UNC machination machine.


GT is paying the price for past mistakes.

1. Calculus
2. Triple Option Offense in Football
3. Paul Hewitt Basketball contract


Most wounds in the ACC are self inflicted and only then do the usual suspects appear to take advantage.


GT has three structural problems:

1. They exist in a pro town unlike most other SEC/ACC/B10 schools - they are 4th fiddle in their hometown
2. They are a graduate/STEM/very heavy research institution they do not have the social sciences curriculum to hide abject morons. Even their partnerships are with the likes of Emory
3. The State of Georgia heavily favors UGa

I was waiting for somebody to jump in there. While my roots with the ACC don't go all the way back to the beginning, I have been around it for 45 of my adult years. So I'm comfortable expressing an opinion on this.

I could sort of see how UNC and Duke (and quietly, behind the scenes, even Wake) wielded strong influence in my early years of observing. But now, I'm baffled. In my experience, schools only get to wield such power by the permission of the other schools. Early on, Tobacco Road was the national identity of the ACC. But now, the six original members are seriously outnumbered by nine newcomers. Even among the six, Clemson and State have hardly always been in lockstep with the others.

So, with those numbers, how is it that just a few schools have so much power? Or do they? Is it possible that the myth of the Tobacco Road cabal is just an excuse to be used when the conference doesn't vote your way?
12-03-2018 04:29 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #8
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 04:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 03:52 PM)Statefan Wrote:  For the love of Jesus H. Christ, keep NC State out of Duke/UNC machination machine.


GT is paying the price for past mistakes.

1. Calculus
2. Triple Option Offense in Football
3. Paul Hewitt Basketball contract


Most wounds in the ACC are self inflicted and only then do the usual suspects appear to take advantage.


GT has three structural problems:

1. They exist in a pro town unlike most other SEC/ACC/B10 schools - they are 4th fiddle in their hometown
2. They are a graduate/STEM/very heavy research institution they do not have the social sciences curriculum to hide abject morons. Even their partnerships are with the likes of Emory
3. The State of Georgia heavily favors UGa

I was waiting for somebody to jump in there. While my roots with the ACC don't go all the way back to the beginning, I have been around it for 45 of my adult years. So I'm comfortable expressing an opinion on this.

I could sort of see how UNC and Duke (and quietly, behind the scenes, even Wake) wielded strong influence in my early years of observing. But now, I'm baffled. In my experience, schools only get to wield such power by the permission of the other schools. Early on, Tobacco Road was the national identity of the ACC. But now, the six original members are seriously outnumbered by nine newcomers. Even among the six, Clemson and State have hardly always been in lockstep with the others.

So, with those numbers, how is it that just a few schools have so much power? Or do they? Is it possible that the myth of the Tobacco Road cabal is just an excuse to be used when the conference doesn't vote your way?

Money.
12-03-2018 04:41 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 04:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 03:52 PM)Statefan Wrote:  For the love of Jesus H. Christ, keep NC State out of Duke/UNC machination machine.


GT is paying the price for past mistakes.

1. Calculus
2. Triple Option Offense in Football
3. Paul Hewitt Basketball contract


Most wounds in the ACC are self inflicted and only then do the usual suspects appear to take advantage.


GT has three structural problems:

1. They exist in a pro town unlike most other SEC/ACC/B10 schools - they are 4th fiddle in their hometown
2. They are a graduate/STEM/very heavy research institution they do not have the social sciences curriculum to hide abject morons. Even their partnerships are with the likes of Emory
3. The State of Georgia heavily favors UGa

I was waiting for somebody to jump in there. While my roots with the ACC don't go all the way back to the beginning, I have been around it for 45 of my adult years. So I'm comfortable expressing an opinion on this.

I could sort of see how UNC and Duke (and quietly, behind the scenes, even Wake) wielded strong influence in my early years of observing. But now, I'm baffled. In my experience, schools only get to wield such power by the permission of the other schools. Early on, Tobacco Road was the national identity of the ACC. But now, the six original members are seriously outnumbered by nine newcomers. Even among the six, Clemson and State have hardly always been in lockstep with the others.

So, with those numbers, how is it that just a few schools have so much power? Or do they? Is it possible that the myth of the Tobacco Road cabal is just an excuse to be used when the conference doesn't vote your way?

Your answer lies in Louisville's invitation. And really, all the invitations since 2003.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2018 04:49 PM by CrazyPaco.)
12-03-2018 04:48 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 03:52 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 02:24 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 02:07 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The ACC satisfies the academic side with Georgia Tech. The only academic slouch is Louisville, and quite a few are elite.
The SEC satisfies the athletic side with Georgia Tech. The only athletic slouch is Vanderbilt, and quite a few are elite.
The B1G does half-sies with both. And comes at the high cost of geographic isolation. They do have the CIC though, which is something neither the ACC or SEC does well.

So ... it depends. The ACC is last among the P5 where it counts (football, revenue). Being last is unsavory when you sold a lot of valuable things up the river (geography, double round robin in hoops, rivalries, etc) to expand. The ACCN needs to be able to convert a TV advantage into dollars. Failure to do so will be destabilizing to the conference. Clemson, FSU, GT, and Louisville are getting outgunned almost $20m/yr just in TV money against in state SEC foes. That matters on facilities. That matters on coaching salaries. That matters on staff sizes. It's not hard to picture a future where Alabama simply writes as big a check as is necessary to hire their own Coach K / Roy Williams and start cleaning up the hardwood too. The cash flow has a trickle down effect through the rest of the sports. But the ACC does have soccer well sewn up .... so for the Ninja Swofford crowd maybe the ACC is just playing the century long CTE game, eh? I don't see anybody -- including the ACC -- pushing for caps and other regulatory reforms to stop this runaway train at the NCAA level. It really matters how well the ACCN does, because TVs is the one revenue generating advantage this conference does have. It doesn't have the 50k+ enrollment factories, and I have my misgivings about those (how many of them are sociology degrees?). It isn't willing to be soulless in the pursuit of wins (Pedo State, Baylor, Jan Kemp, etc), nor should it be. So far the ACCN marketing push has been ..... tepid at best. So at the end of the day if we destroyed several things that defined us as a conference for the sake of TV sets which are then NOT converted into dollars ... then WTF are we even doing?

Feel free to scoff at GT and Louisville if you'd like, but if Clemson and FSU wanted to walk over to the SEC that would probably generate enough money to work. In no small part because the ACC payout would shrink dramatically. And forget your Grant of Rights -- that's an in house move for Fuhrer Mickey. No contractual pain necessary. And it would definitively spell the end of the ACC. If they weren't included in such a move, GT would take whatever lifeline it could at that point including the B1G. Removing Clemson and FSU removes half -- maybe more -- of the reason to stay in the ACC.

If GT could wave a magic wand it would be in a conference consisting of the old SEC East and the ACC's southern flank. A wet dream probably looks like having the SEC west of Alabama go to the Big 12 and then having GT, CU, FSU, Duke, UNC, and VT go the SEC. That depends upon whether the SEC is looking to be short term greedy and disruptive (CU/FSU or TX/OU only) or is truly looking to own the market (some enormous Fuhrer Mickey megaconference).

Regarding the smaller things GT "whines" about -- I noticed after they made media headlines the ACC made rule changes. It took Boston College plummeting from the ACC-CG all the way down to Boise, ID before the first merit based criteria was added to bowl selection. What a concept. And what an embarrassment to send your title game loser all the way out to Boise. The ACC bowl tie-ins are pretty transparently bad when you get into Tier 2. And they've persistently been terrible since expansion. GT played in Blacksburg two years in a row to make the scheduling Gods happy after expansion. To try to rectify the post-expansion scheduling problem (Clemson, VT, UGAg all home/away at the same time) we ate it again playing on the road at Clemson two years in a row. The ACC showed its gratitude by having a parade of byes scheduled. Byes for the opponent that is. UNC and Duke got byes all the time before playing the triple. At least FSU got screwed with byes almost as much. I believe that has now generated a rule change as well.

And lastly no, we weren't particularly happy with Bobinski. Neither was anybody else. Paul Johnson crapped all over him at his retirement presser. He fired all the recruiting extra staff to "save money" ... which is a bit like reaching for a jar of leeches if you're anemic. He was lampooned by the AJC publicly when he fled to Purdue. And the only reason he was hired in the first place is because Bud Peterson cares so little about athletics he let the booster who wrote the check for the new basketball arena decide who the new AD would be. Brilliant move numb nuts. Bud's apathy and Bobinski's ineptitude couldn't have come at a worse time: our two biggest rivals nearing all time highs, the ACC and particularly the Coastal nearing post-expansion lows. With Miami and VT changing staffs that was a Wonka golden ticket to do something in the Coastal if there ever was one. But the proper AD hire came one too late it would seem.


Now THIS is a fantastic post. Very well explained.

I'm (like most U of L fans) new to the conference, so a lot of th eACC machinations are still new to me, but it did seem odd how the byes worked against GT in the past. To me that looked like the evidence of the North Carolina Triad (or Quat-trad??) that we always heard people talk about ... like they did about Texas and the Big XII ... exerting it's influence unduly (this is an awkward ass sentence, but jimmy crack corn .... it's Monday, and I'm tired of being coachless, among other things.).

But this post lays it all out very well. Thanks for the synopsis.

Who knows what will drive conference realignment in the future. But I doubt that Georgia Tech is alone in their attitude to their home conference .... I bet there are similar misgivings throughout all 5 P5 conferences.

I do think that GT is a sleeping giant tho. And it has sounded like their new leadership is positioning them well to excel in both big revenue sports going forward. I am not sure why they didn't lobby a little harder for a better bowl option ... but maybe they did, and Swoff said "Whatever". Which would continue to play into the justifiable angst GT has for the ACC.

For the love of Jesus H. Christ, keep NC State out of Duke/UNC machination machine.


GT is paying the price for past mistakes.

1. Calculus
2. Triple Option Offense in Football
3. Paul Hewitt Basketball contract


Most wounds in the ACC are self inflicted and only then do the usual suspects appear to take advantage.


GT has three structural problems:

1. They exist in a pro town unlike most other SEC/ACC/B10 schools - they are 4th fiddle in their hometown
2. They are a graduate/STEM/very heavy research institution they do not have the social sciences curriculum to hide abject morons. Even their partnerships are with the likes of Emory
3. The State of Georgia heavily favors UGa

Also, consider the size of the institutions and their athletic departments.

School....Enrollment....#Sponsored varsity sports
PSU....99.1K....30
OSU....66.4K....37
MSU....51.8K....25
Minn....51.1K....25
Mich....46.0K....29
UW....44.4K....25
Ill....45.8K....21
IU....43.7K....24
Purdue....41.6K....20
UM-CP....41.2K....20
RU....40.7K....27
Iowa....32.9K....24
GT....29.4....17
UNL....25.3K....24
NU....21.2K....19

Not all of these, like Nebraska & Maryland, include the system-wide students.

ACC
School....Enrollment....#Sponsored varsity sports
FSU....41.9K....20
NCSU....35.5K....24
Pitt....35.0K....20
VT....32.3K....22
UNC-CH....29.8K....28
GT....29.3K....17
CU....24.4K....19
UVA....23.4K....27
UL....22.6K....23
SU....22.5K....20
UM....17.0K....17.5
Duke....15.9K....27
BC....14.4K....31
ND....12.3K....26
WFU....7.4K....18
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2018 05:36 PM by CrazyPaco.)
12-03-2018 05:33 PM
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GTFletch Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
"College football's crossroads is essentially in this market," said Wes Durham, the voice of Georgia Tech sports for 18 years before he began calling ACC games on Fox Sports Net. "You've got everybody here." Everybody? Not only does Atlanta sit at the geographic heart of the SEC and the ACC, two of the conferences that make up the Power 5, but five years ago, when the Big Ten expanded to 14 teams, the league didn't take Rutgers until it had been turned down by Georgia Tech.

Link
http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...me-atlanta
12-03-2018 08:03 PM
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GTFletch Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
Georgia Tech stood by Commish Swofford and the ACC, However with the BS politics we should have went to the BIG10.....To Hell with the ACC!!!
12-03-2018 08:05 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 08:05 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Georgia Tech stood by Commish Swofford and the ACC, However with the BS politics we should have went to the BIG10.....To Hell with the ACC!!!

You mean "we should have gone to the Big 10". Oh the lack of languages and humanities at Tech!

First of all the Big 10 wouldn't have taken you without a North Carolina school to get a near contiguous connection.

The SEC wouldn't take you because you wouldn't earn us enough money. But I must admit that a defensive move to keep the Big 10 out of Atlanta might have been considered. That would have been your best angle.

The Big 12 probably would have taken you with Clemson and or Florida State and possibly Miami. But the GOR hastily put in place prevented that even if it ever had a chance.

But now you guys are locked into a GOR until 2037. As long as ESPN holds out any hope for landing Notre Dame fully their answer to your pleas to leave would be, "Nyet!"

I'd guess if the P conferences ever break into two large conferences that a large scale merger plus say 3 Big 12 schools might be possible. But that's the only way out I see for you.
12-03-2018 08:19 PM
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GTFletch Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 08:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:05 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Georgia Tech stood by Commish Swofford and the ACC, However with the BS politics we should have went to the BIG10.....To Hell with the ACC!!!

You mean "we should have gone to the Big 10". Oh the lack of languages and humanities at Tech!

First of all the Big 10 wouldn't have taken you without a North Carolina school to get a near contiguous connection.

The SEC wouldn't take you because you wouldn't earn us enough money. But I must admit that a defensive move to keep the Big 10 out of Atlanta might have been considered. That would have been your best angle.

The Big 12 probably would have taken you with Clemson and or Florida State and possibly Miami. But the GOR hastily put in place prevented that even if it ever had a chance.

But now you guys are locked into a GOR until 2037. As long as ESPN holds out any hope for landing Notre Dame fully their answer to your pleas to leave would be, "Nyet!"

I'd guess if the P conferences ever break into two large conferences that a large scale merger plus say 3 Big 12 schools might be possible. But that's the only way out I see for you.

Georgia Tech Turned down the BIG10..... Read the article posted....SMH
12-03-2018 08:22 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 08:22 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:05 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Georgia Tech stood by Commish Swofford and the ACC, However with the BS politics we should have went to the BIG10.....To Hell with the ACC!!!

You mean "we should have gone to the Big 10". Oh the lack of languages and humanities at Tech!

First of all the Big 10 wouldn't have taken you without a North Carolina school to get a near contiguous connection.

The SEC wouldn't take you because you wouldn't earn us enough money. But I must admit that a defensive move to keep the Big 10 out of Atlanta might have been considered. That would have been your best angle.

The Big 12 probably would have taken you with Clemson and or Florida State and possibly Miami. But the GOR hastily put in place prevented that even if it ever had a chance.

But now you guys are locked into a GOR until 2037. As long as ESPN holds out any hope for landing Notre Dame fully their answer to your pleas to leave would be, "Nyet!"

I'd guess if the P conferences ever break into two large conferences that a large scale merger plus say 3 Big 12 schools might be possible. But that's the only way out I see for you.

Georgia Tech Turned down the BIG10..... Read the article posted....SMH

Yes they did. So did UNC and UVA. Also, VT turned down the SEC around that same time. I guess these ACC teams will sink or swim together.
07-coffee3

BTW - don't let UNC bully you, GT - in case you haven't noticed, we nerds now out-number the bullies.
03-nerd
12-03-2018 08:36 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-03-2018 08:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:22 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:05 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Georgia Tech stood by Commish Swofford and the ACC, However with the BS politics we should have went to the BIG10.....To Hell with the ACC!!!

You mean "we should have gone to the Big 10". Oh the lack of languages and humanities at Tech!

First of all the Big 10 wouldn't have taken you without a North Carolina school to get a near contiguous connection.

The SEC wouldn't take you because you wouldn't earn us enough money. But I must admit that a defensive move to keep the Big 10 out of Atlanta might have been considered. That would have been your best angle.

The Big 12 probably would have taken you with Clemson and or Florida State and possibly Miami. But the GOR hastily put in place prevented that even if it ever had a chance.

But now you guys are locked into a GOR until 2037. As long as ESPN holds out any hope for landing Notre Dame fully their answer to your pleas to leave would be, "Nyet!"

I'd guess if the P conferences ever break into two large conferences that a large scale merger plus say 3 Big 12 schools might be possible. But that's the only way out I see for you.

Georgia Tech Turned down the BIG10..... Read the article posted....SMH

Yes they did. So did UNC and UVA. Also, VT turned down the SEC around that same time. I guess these ACC teams will sink or swim together.
07-coffee3

BTW - don't let UNC bully you, GT - in case you haven't noticed, we nerds now out-number the bullies.
03-nerd

In '91 you contacted us and we didn't pursue it because you were deemed to be an outlier. In 2010-1 we met at the Greenbriar, exchanged information and nothing came of it. The deal fell apart. There was no formal offer, just discussions. But I think our intentions were to offer one.

As to the Big 10 offering Tech, I knew they were in discussions but heard they weren't paired with Maryland. Ivan may or may not have the whole story as writers like Tramel have been wrong before. He's fond of saying OU turned down an SEC invitation. They didn't receive one. We asked if they were interested. They said only if OSU could come with them. A&M was already on board and we weren't taking 3 so we said no since we already had Missouri lined up if OU wasn't interested. So they didn't say no to us as there was no invitation. We rejected their counter. In the SEC if a school expresses interest they are provided an application. If we offer an application that means we already have the votes necessary to issue them a formal invitation. We were prepared to offer them an application, but not if OSU was the price of it.

Once an application is received there is a roll call voice vote of all 14 (12 then) presidents which is not recorded publicly. If 3/4's approve then we hold a formal vote where by tradition all presidents vote unanimously and any in minority opposition are required to either acquiesce or abstain, but there are no rejecting votes. Virginia Tech was in formal talks but no application had been given or made and consequently no informal or formal votes held, and no invitation issued.

When the SEC decides against a school the application is tabled. We do not reject applicants, we just stall them. That way their administration has no egg on their face and they can always say their application is in and if we are ready to expand in their area we have it.

I don't know how the Big 10 protocol works on these things so I could be wrong, but I had heard that when Virginia and UNC expressed no interest that Georgia Tech became an outlier.
12-04-2018 12:27 AM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-04-2018 12:27 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:22 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:05 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Georgia Tech stood by Commish Swofford and the ACC, However with the BS politics we should have went to the BIG10.....To Hell with the ACC!!!

You mean "we should have gone to the Big 10". Oh the lack of languages and humanities at Tech!

First of all the Big 10 wouldn't have taken you without a North Carolina school to get a near contiguous connection.

The SEC wouldn't take you because you wouldn't earn us enough money. But I must admit that a defensive move to keep the Big 10 out of Atlanta might have been considered. That would have been your best angle.

The Big 12 probably would have taken you with Clemson and or Florida State and possibly Miami. But the GOR hastily put in place prevented that even if it ever had a chance.

But now you guys are locked into a GOR until 2037. As long as ESPN holds out any hope for landing Notre Dame fully their answer to your pleas to leave would be, "Nyet!"

I'd guess if the P conferences ever break into two large conferences that a large scale merger plus say 3 Big 12 schools might be possible. But that's the only way out I see for you.

Georgia Tech Turned down the BIG10..... Read the article posted....SMH

Yes they did. So did UNC and UVA. Also, VT turned down the SEC around that same time. I guess these ACC teams will sink or swim together.
07-coffee3

BTW - don't let UNC bully you, GT - in case you haven't noticed, we nerds now out-number the bullies.
03-nerd

In '91 you contacted us and we didn't pursue it because you were deemed to be an outlier. In 2010-1 we met at the Greenbriar, exchanged information and nothing came of it. The deal fell apart. There was no formal offer, just discussions. But I think our intentions were to offer one.

As to the Big 10 offering Tech, I knew they were in discussions but heard they weren't paired with Maryland. Ivan may or may not have the whole story as writers like Tramel have been wrong before. He's fond of saying OU turned down an SEC invitation. They didn't receive one. We asked if they were interested. They said only if OSU could come with them. A&M was already on board and we weren't taking 3 so we said no since we already had Missouri lined up if OU wasn't interested. So they didn't say no to us as there was no invitation. We rejected their counter. In the SEC if a school expresses interest they are provided an application. If we offer an application that means we already have the votes necessary to issue them a formal invitation. We were prepared to offer them an application, but not if OSU was the price of it.

Once an application is received there is a roll call voice vote of all 14 (12 then) presidents which is not recorded publicly. If 3/4's approve then we hold a formal vote where by tradition all presidents vote unanimously and any in minority opposition are required to either acquiesce or abstain, but there are no rejecting votes. Virginia Tech was in formal talks but no application had been given or made and consequently no informal or formal votes held, and no invitation issued.

When the SEC decides against a school the application is tabled. We do not reject applicants, we just stall them. That way their administration has no egg on their face and they can always say their application is in and if we are ready to expand in their area we have it.

I don't know how the Big 10 protocol works on these things so I could be wrong, but I had heard that when Virginia and UNC expressed no interest that Georgia Tech became an outlier.

So in other words, the SEC offered OU but OU said no. Why it said no doesn't change the fact that OU did not accept the offer, nor does it matter that it provided a counter proposal it likely knew would be rejected. And as you correctly describe, nor does it matter that formal invites weren't issued, because they are largely a publicity formality after agreements in principal have already been reached.
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2018 09:38 AM by CrazyPaco.)
12-04-2018 09:34 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
05-stirthepot Georgia Tech is unhappy with the ACC. I do not hear other P5 Conferences wanting you. Be glad the ACC wants you still. Louisville is glad that we are in. We have a new President to improve Academics, a new AD to fix problems and we got rid of our dirtbags, Pitino and Petrino. Fix your problems. We are. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2018 10:12 AM by Wilkie01.)
12-04-2018 10:08 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
My belief is that there are three stages - considering, gauging intent with all known conditions/commitments being spelled out, and finally formally/or given permission to formally invite. The way conference invites go, the first stage happens in two parts - beginning with determining if there is interest on the conference's side to explore further and if yes, then part two is gauging if there is reciprocal interest from the side of the potential invitee. If yes to both, then the second stage happens still informally but more in-depth in order to have both sides know exactly what the commitment will mean from both sides. Then if it manages to get through that stage successfully, an actual invite goes out or is in hand to go out and the conference prays like hell that the invitee doesn't pull an ND like what happened to the Big Ten back in 1999.

As I see it based mostly on rumors and conjecture at the time, GT to the Big Ten was probably done at the first part of the first stage but not sure the interest was high enough to get to the second part of the first stage. I could be wrong there. From all reports, the VT to SEC got through the first part of stage one, but ended with the second part of stage one with VT not showing enough interest at that time.

The OU to SEC seems to have gotten through a large portion of the second stage but failed due each side wanting something the other wasn't willing to give (or not give).

The PAC invite to the Texahoma schools and Colorado actually got to the third stage according to all reports. But the PAC must have been somewhat wary of true interest on the part of the Texahoma schools since Colorado accepted their invite on June 10th. The Texahoma schools each declined four days later which kept the Big 12 in tact so Utah was invited three days after that as #12.

I am willing to admit my knowledge of the PAC-B12 isn't the best so I may have some details wrong or other details missing. But I think the examples overall give some idea why I believe it is a three-stage process.

Cheers,
Neil
12-04-2018 10:46 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Would Georgia Tech ever leave the ACC?
(12-04-2018 12:27 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:22 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:05 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Georgia Tech stood by Commish Swofford and the ACC, However with the BS politics we should have went to the BIG10.....To Hell with the ACC!!!

You mean "we should have gone to the Big 10". Oh the lack of languages and humanities at Tech!

First of all the Big 10 wouldn't have taken you without a North Carolina school to get a near contiguous connection.

The SEC wouldn't take you because you wouldn't earn us enough money. But I must admit that a defensive move to keep the Big 10 out of Atlanta might have been considered. That would have been your best angle.

The Big 12 probably would have taken you with Clemson and or Florida State and possibly Miami. But the GOR hastily put in place prevented that even if it ever had a chance.

But now you guys are locked into a GOR until 2037. As long as ESPN holds out any hope for landing Notre Dame fully their answer to your pleas to leave would be, "Nyet!"

I'd guess if the P conferences ever break into two large conferences that a large scale merger plus say 3 Big 12 schools might be possible. But that's the only way out I see for you.

Georgia Tech Turned down the BIG10..... Read the article posted....SMH

Yes they did. So did UNC and UVA. Also, VT turned down the SEC around that same time. I guess these ACC teams will sink or swim together.
07-coffee3

BTW - don't let UNC bully you, GT - in case you haven't noticed, we nerds now out-number the bullies.
03-nerd

In '91 you contacted us and we didn't pursue it because you were deemed to be an outlier. In 2010-1 we met at the Greenbriar, exchanged information and nothing came of it. The deal fell apart. There was no formal offer, just discussions. But I think our intentions were to offer one.

As to the Big 10 offering Tech, I knew they were in discussions but heard they weren't paired with Maryland. Ivan may or may not have the whole story as writers like Tramel have been wrong before. He's fond of saying OU turned down an SEC invitation. They didn't receive one. We asked if they were interested. They said only if OSU could come with them. A&M was already on board and we weren't taking 3 so we said no since we already had Missouri lined up if OU wasn't interested. So they didn't say no to us as there was no invitation. We rejected their counter. In the SEC if a school expresses interest they are provided an application. If we offer an application that means we already have the votes necessary to issue them a formal invitation. We were prepared to offer them an application, but not if OSU was the price of it.

Once an application is received there is a roll call voice vote of all 14 (12 then) presidents which is not recorded publicly. If 3/4's approve then we hold a formal vote where by tradition all presidents vote unanimously and any in minority opposition are required to either acquiesce or abstain, but there are no rejecting votes. Virginia Tech was in formal talks but no application had been given or made and consequently no informal or formal votes held, and no invitation issued.

When the SEC decides against a school the application is tabled. We do not reject applicants, we just stall them. That way their administration has no egg on their face and they can always say their application is in and if we are ready to expand in their area we have it.

I don't know how the Big 10 protocol works on these things so I could be wrong, but I had heard that when Virginia and UNC expressed no interest that Georgia Tech became an outlier.

The article cited was shamelessly promoting the city of Atlanta. As such, it would have diminished the significance of the Big Ten's overture if it were disclosed that what was being discussed was essentially a package deal of which Tech played a part.

Jim Delaney may have faults, but thinking small isn't one of them IMO. Along with the move to establish a foothold in two key cities, NY and DC, filling the gap between DC and Atlanta was a bold strategy. But creating a gap between DC and Atlanta wasn't an acceptable fallback position. It had to be all or nothing.

Georgia Tech's "no" to the B1G was likely a collective "no" joined by Carolina, Duke and Virginia. Together, they preferred to stay in the ACC. Separately, none were willing to break ranks with the others.

What is telling about this to me is that Georgia Tech wields more power in the ACC than they are given credit for, or will admit. Not only are they a part of whatever Tobacco Road power bloc exists, they are also a bridge to the southern football powers Clemson and Florida State.

I believe that if Georgia Tech preferred to be in the Atlantic Division instead of the Coastal, realignment would happen. But if changing divisions has to come at the expense of weakening Tech's relationship with Duke, Virginia and Carolina, that is too high a price. Stalemate.
12-04-2018 11:20 AM
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