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Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 09:25 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  To revisit what I said earlier .... the ACC threw away a lot of things it valued to get to where it is today. All in the explicit pursuit of money. We threw away geography. We threw away academics. We threw away scheduling. We threw away control of game times. We threw away no weekday games other than Thursday. And all every step of the way because of the promise of a bigger paycheck.

If all that was for naught then what the hell are we doing? It won't take long for those chickens to come back home and roost without the hush money that was promised to paper over those things. If TV dollar expansion had never happened ... the only expansion school which would have been a fit was the one the ACC tried to avoid adding in the first place: Virginia Tech.

So you stay at 9 or so schools...cool story BTW. Due to Swoffie and a smaller geographical footprint you'd be a sucking hind tit for TV money (worse than now). Having 4 schools in NC is a problem that handicaps the ACC bigly in a 9 team conference scenario.
08-10-2018 12:37 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 12:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 11:58 AM)green Wrote:  
Quote:It wasn’t that long ago that skeptics doubted whether an ACC Network would ever get off the ground, given ESPN’s cost cutting and the shifting media landscape away from cable.

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour...story.aspx

COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS

Good point, Green!
2012 - "the ACC won't be included among the power conferences"
2013 - "the ACC won't stay together"
2014 - "the ACC won't get a team into the playoffs"
2015 - "the ACC won't win a CFP championship"
2016 - "the ACC will never get an ACC Network"
2017 - "the ACC Network won't make any money"
2018 - "the ACC Network won't make enough money"
2019 - ???

Save the straw men from Hartford, CT for other people. I had no doubt in an eventual ACC television network. I have quite a healthy and reasonable amount of doubt on the ACC's ability to convert population in footprint into TV dollars to an extent necessary to close the money gap to at least something that can be managed. It's not some overdrive jazz hands to say the league could plausibly collapse if 8 figure shortfalls continue. That's something even David Teel agrees with. It's simply not sustainable. Period. Being behind the PAC-12 in revenue is particularly egregious given how they've so publicly strugged to make ANYTHING off their TV network and given that their fanbase is easily the least passionate and least involved. Stanford can't sell out a home football game when they're Top 5. And they have to fly all over creation. The Pac-12 footprint spans 2,000 miles and 2 timezones. And they STILL make more money off TV with just as few people watching on TV as there are watching in the stands in Palo Alto. Not good. Not sustainable.
08-10-2018 01:09 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 01:09 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Save the straw men from Bristol, CT (FIFY) for other people.

YANKEE DOODLE
08-10-2018 01:58 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 01:09 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 12:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 11:58 AM)green Wrote:  
Quote:It wasn’t that long ago that skeptics doubted whether an ACC Network would ever get off the ground, given ESPN’s cost cutting and the shifting media landscape away from cable.

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour...story.aspx

COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS

Good point, Green!
2012 - "the ACC won't be included among the power conferences"
2013 - "the ACC won't stay together"
2014 - "the ACC won't get a team into the playoffs"
2015 - "the ACC won't win a CFP championship"
2016 - "the ACC will never get an ACC Network"
2017 - "the ACC Network won't make any money"
2018 - "the ACC Network won't make enough money"
2019 - ???

Save the straw men from Hartford, CT for other people. I had no doubt in an eventual ACC television network. I have quite a healthy and reasonable amount of doubt on the ACC's ability to convert population in footprint into TV dollars to an extent necessary to close the money gap to at least something that can be managed. It's not some overdrive jazz hands to say the league could plausibly collapse if 8 figure shortfalls continue. That's something even David Teel agrees with. It's simply not sustainable. Period. Being behind the PAC-12 in revenue is particularly egregious given how they've so publicly strugged to make ANYTHING off their TV network and given that their fanbase is easily the least passionate and least involved. Stanford can't sell out a home football game when they're Top 5. And they have to fly all over creation. The Pac-12 footprint spans 2,000 miles and 2 timezones. And they STILL make more money off TV with just as few people watching on TV as there are watching in the stands in Palo Alto. Not good. Not sustainable.

I'm trying hard to understand your point.
Are you suggesting that we should have stayed at a 9 team regional conference?
If we can not generate enough money with ESPN's help to stay close enough to the B1G and the SEC to continue, then yes the ACC will probably have some defections. But the conference would have had the same defections had we not made changes. If the whole thing collapses we will have tried and tried with the best backing available. What is worse? To try and fail or never give it a go in the first place.
08-10-2018 02:04 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 02:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  What is worse?

big12 sans network ...

TEXOMA
08-10-2018 02:10 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 02:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  I'm trying hard to understand your point.
Are you suggesting that we should have stayed at a 9 team regional conference?
If we can not generate enough money with ESPN's help to stay close enough to the B1G and the SEC to continue, then yes the ACC will probably have some defections. But the conference would have had the same defections had we not made changes. If the whole thing collapses we will have tried and tried with the best backing available. What is worse? To try and fail or never give it a go in the first place.

The ACC is responsible for setting these dominoes into motion. They did that from a position of strength and superiority in 2003 as the #1 football conference (check Sagarin) and the #1 conference in revenue per team. If when the dust has settled the ACC has turned an expansionist agenda from that initial position of strength into a dead last limp into the P5 ... that's the sort of catastrophic mismanagement that will kill a conference. The conference has thrown overboard much of what it claims to cherish and much of what it had in common in this pursuit. So let's not pretend there haven't been costs to do this either. So with that in mind my overarching point is that let's not pretend this is just fine and dandy and a slam dunk. The ACCN *has* to perform and it *has* to perform at a high level. The future of the league depends upon it. And given that we're about a year away you'd think we'd at least see some f'n marketing push on this by now. But no. Silence from Greensboro other than the obligatory David Teel tablescraps. It doesn't inspire confidence, and the league offices appear tone deaf on the vital importance of success of the ACCN launch.
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2018 02:36 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
08-10-2018 02:34 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 02:10 PM)green Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 02:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  What is worse?

big12 sans network ...

TEXOMA

They distributed the better part of $10m more per team per year despite that and having some utterly laughable addons like West Virginia.
08-10-2018 02:35 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 02:35 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 02:10 PM)green Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 02:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  What is worse?

big12 sans network ...

TEXOMA

They distributed the better part of $10m more per team per year despite that and having some utterly laughable addons like West Virginia.



https://twitter.com/RyanGorcey/status/11...4107337728

just a invite away from disbanding ...

GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER
08-10-2018 02:52 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 02:52 PM)green Wrote:  https://twitter.com/RyanGorcey/status/11...4107337728

just a invite away from disbanding ...

GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER


9/12/2011

That must be one hell of a stack of paper. I know California based institutions like paperwork and bureaucracy, but I think you could complete even California paperwork in 7 years.
08-10-2018 02:54 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
Quote:At the height of the conference realignment drama, all signs pointed to Oklahoma and Oklahoma State leaving — or, at the very least, wanting to leave — for the Pac-12, but in the 11th hour, the Pac-12 decided not to expand any further.

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.co...c-12-snub/

PAST IS PROLOGUE
08-10-2018 03:00 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 02:34 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 02:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  I'm trying hard to understand your point.
Are you suggesting that we should have stayed at a 9 team regional conference?
If we can not generate enough money with ESPN's help to stay close enough to the B1G and the SEC to continue, then yes the ACC will probably have some defections. But the conference would have had the same defections had we not made changes. If the whole thing collapses we will have tried and tried with the best backing available. What is worse? To try and fail or never give it a go in the first place.

The ACC is responsible for setting these dominoes into motion. They did that from a position of strength and superiority in 2003 as the #1 football conference (check Sagarin) and the #1 conference in revenue per team. If when the dust has settled the ACC has turned an expansionist agenda from that initial position of strength into a dead last limp into the P5 ... that's the sort of catastrophic mismanagement that will kill a conference. The conference has thrown overboard much of what it claims to cherish and much of what it had in common in this pursuit. So let's not pretend there haven't been costs to do this either. So with that in mind my overarching point is that let's not pretend this is just fine and dandy and a slam dunk. The ACCN *has* to perform and it *has* to perform at a high level. The future of the league depends upon it. And given that we're about a year away you'd think we'd at least see some f'n marketing push on this by now. But no. Silence from Greensboro other than the obligatory David Teel tablescraps. It doesn't inspire confidence, and the league offices appear tone deaf on the vital importance of success of the ACCN launch.

The ACC presidents bought into the vision of ESPN "consultants" by agreeing to add Syracuse, Boston College and Miami. In fact Miami had been making overtures to the ACC for years. It should be noted that there is no coincidence re: Miami and the ACC that Donna Shalala (Miami President 2003-2015) and Erskine Bowles (Clinton's Chief of Staff) both had worked together in the Clinton Administration for about 8 years. Bowles was an unsuccessful US Senate candidate in 2002 and 2004 before he was gifted the job of the UNC system President where he proceeded in 5 years to almost wreck the entire University system.
Unfortunately at this time our only choice is to man the walls of the Alamo and hope we can hold off Santa Anna's army until ESPN's consultant's recommendations either prove to be correct or.....
08-10-2018 03:03 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 03:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Unfortunately at this time our only choice is to man the walls of the Alamo and hope we can hold off Santa Anna's army until ESPN's consultant's recommendations either prove to be correct or.....

Agreed. Because of the idiots in charge signing a mutual suicide pact by rashly giving up media rights that's the only choice we had.

But as a fan of a school that is actively trying it's best to do said defending it would be a whole lot more comfortable if half the conference wasn't standing beside us armed with cap pistols.
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2018 03:21 PM by Kaplony.)
08-10-2018 03:20 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 03:20 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 03:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Unfortunately at this time our only choice is to man the walls of the Alamo and hope we can hold off Santa Anna's army until ESPN's consultant's recommendations either prove to be correct or.....

Agreed. Because of the idiots in charge signing a mutual suicide pact by rashly giving up media rights that's the only choice we had.

But as a fan of a school that is actively trying it's best to do said defending it would be a whole lot more comfortable if half the conference wasn't standing beside us armed with cap pistols.

Just keep in mind that it was Duke and Carolina that were vehemently opposed to expansion of any kind and reluctantly agreed to push for a Miami only addition at the 11th hour.
It was schools like State that claimed that Duke and Carolina had all of the money that they needed and didn't want expansion so that they could keep the "little guys" down." Let's hope you've learned your lesson and it's the last time you believe anything coming out of Raleigh.
08-10-2018 04:10 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 04:10 PM)XLance Wrote:  Just keep in mind that it was Duke and Carolina that were vehemently opposed to expansion of any kind and reluctantly agreed to push for a Miami only addition at the 11th hour.
It was schools like State that claimed that Duke and Carolina had all of the money that they needed and didn't want expansion so that they could keep the "little guys" down." Let's hope you've learned your lesson and it's the last time you believe anything coming out of Raleigh.

1) Both schools had their head in the sand on football. They were laughing stocks in the early 00's. Duke was all time historically bad going years without a conference win. UNC put up several of its own 1 and 2 win seasons as well.

2) Expansion represented the end of the state of NC being able to say no to anything the ACC wanted to do all by itself.
08-10-2018 04:17 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 04:17 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 04:10 PM)XLance Wrote:  Just keep in mind that it was Duke and Carolina that were vehemently opposed to expansion of any kind and reluctantly agreed to push for a Miami only addition at the 11th hour.
It was schools like State that claimed that Duke and Carolina had all of the money that they needed and didn't want expansion so that they could keep the "little guys" down." Let's hope you've learned your lesson and it's the last time you believe anything coming out of Raleigh.

1) Both schools had their head in the sand on football. They were laughing stocks in the early 00's. Duke was all time historically bad going years without a conference win. UNC put up several of its own 1 and 2 win seasons as well.

2) Expansion represented the end of the state of NC being able to say no to anything the ACC wanted to do all by itself.

#1
Don't I know it.
Ten years from Mack's 11-1 until we hired Butch Davis.

Carolina had one (1) TWO win season and three 3 win seasons during that .stretch, but managed one 8, one 7 and two 6 wins seasons too.

#2
You should have left control of the ACC in the hands of Duke and Carolina as they appear to have had a better grasp of the overall situation.
If the ACC falls apart it will be on the shoulders of State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Florida State.
08-10-2018 05:49 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 05:49 PM)XLance Wrote:  #2
You should have left control of the ACC in the hands of Duke and Carolina as they appear to have had a better grasp of the overall situation.
If the ACC falls apart it will be on the shoulders of State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Florida State.

We have precisely the opposite view on that. When it comes to TV dollars Kenan makes more money than the Dean Dome hands down. And that's just how tilted the revenue is toward football.
08-10-2018 07:06 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #37
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 01:09 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 12:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 11:58 AM)green Wrote:  
Quote:It wasn’t that long ago that skeptics doubted whether an ACC Network would ever get off the ground, given ESPN’s cost cutting and the shifting media landscape away from cable.

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour...story.aspx

COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS

Good point, Green!
2012 - "the ACC won't be included among the power conferences"
2013 - "the ACC won't stay together"
2014 - "the ACC won't get a team into the playoffs"
2015 - "the ACC won't win a CFP championship"
2016 - "the ACC will never get an ACC Network"
2017 - "the ACC Network won't make any money"
2018 - "the ACC Network won't make enough money"
2019 - ???

Save the straw men from Hartford, CT for other people. I had no doubt in an eventual ACC television network.

Straw men? It isn't a "straw man" argument if people were actually making that claim (and you KNOW they were, even if you weren't one of them).

Quote:I have quite a healthy and reasonable amount of doubt on the ACC's ability to convert population in footprint into TV dollars to an extent necessary to close the money gap to at least something that can be managed. It's not some overdrive jazz hands to say the league could plausibly collapse if 8 figure shortfalls continue. That's something even David Teel agrees with. It's simply not sustainable. Period. Being behind the PAC-12 in revenue is particularly egregious given how they've so publicly strugged to make ANYTHING off their TV network and given that their fanbase is easily the least passionate and least involved. Stanford can't sell out a home football game when they're Top 5. And they have to fly all over creation. The Pac-12 footprint spans 2,000 miles and 2 timezones. And they STILL make more money off TV with just as few people watching on TV as there are watching in the stands in Palo Alto. Not good. Not sustainable.

IF the ACC remains 8 figures behind, I would agree that the ability to compete for championships - even compete for TV viewers - is unsustainable in that scenario.

You know why the ACC is behind the Pac-12, but in case you forgot, go back and check that 2010 TV contract.

OTOH, anyone who steps back and takes an honest look has to admit that the ACC has made huge strides - both in terms of quality of product and in terms of revenue.

The fact that the SEC and B1G - both of whom got a 4+ year head start on their networks - are way out in front should surprise NO ONE. I'm old and out of shape, but give me a big enough headstart and I'm confident I could win the Olympic marathon gold medal... how much more the 2 biggest brands in college football!

I'm not saying "all is well" while the Titanic sinks. I'm not guaranteeing success either. But what I am doing is calling out those who've been guaranteeing failure for the last 6 years -- only to be disproved time and time again!
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2018 07:29 PM by Hokie Mark.)
08-10-2018 07:27 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-09-2018 11:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I wish someone had the TOTAL expenditures for SEC schools. It sounds like they'd spent significant amounts of money (may just as much?) AFTER the SECN was launched...

The figure I was told was been 7 to 10 million each when all was completed. While searches didn't bring up the second round of expenses the cumulative total for the launch was between 25-30 million with Arkansas spending the most (7 million).

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journ...twork.aspx
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2018 08:02 PM by JRsec.)
08-10-2018 08:02 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 04:10 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 03:20 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 03:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Unfortunately at this time our only choice is to man the walls of the Alamo and hope we can hold off Santa Anna's army until ESPN's consultant's recommendations either prove to be correct or.....

Agreed. Because of the idiots in charge signing a mutual suicide pact by rashly giving up media rights that's the only choice we had.

But as a fan of a school that is actively trying it's best to do said defending it would be a whole lot more comfortable if half the conference wasn't standing beside us armed with cap pistols.

Just keep in mind that it was Duke and Carolina that were vehemently opposed to expansion of any kind and reluctantly agreed to push for a Miami only addition at the 11th hour.
It was schools like State that claimed that Duke and Carolina had all of the money that they needed and didn't want expansion so that they could keep the "little guys" down." Let's hope you've learned your lesson and it's the last time you believe anything coming out of Raleigh.

That's patently false X and you know that. If you had only wanted Miami that was easy - you could have made the motion to invited Miami. Instead you and Duke made it know the ptb in Virginian and with the firm McGurie Woods that VT could be in play as long as UNC and Duke refused to vote just for Miami.

It was UNC and Duke that allowed UVa to be blackmailed. You did that so that you would get VT in your division for football to take advantage of their crowds and you didn't have to worry about their basketball.

There is no need to continue to dissemble based on the false "Carolina Way" sewage.
08-10-2018 08:31 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Lights. Camera. ACCtion!
(08-10-2018 04:17 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(08-10-2018 04:10 PM)XLance Wrote:  Just keep in mind that it was Duke and Carolina that were vehemently opposed to expansion of any kind and reluctantly agreed to push for a Miami only addition at the 11th hour.
It was schools like State that claimed that Duke and Carolina had all of the money that they needed and didn't want expansion so that they could keep the "little guys" down." Let's hope you've learned your lesson and it's the last time you believe anything coming out of Raleigh.

1) Both schools had their head in the sand on football. They were laughing stocks in the early 00's. Duke was all time historically bad going years without a conference win. UNC put up several of its own 1 and 2 win seasons as well.

2) Expansion represented the end of the state of NC being able to say no to anything the ACC wanted to do all by itself.

It's important to remember that many associated with UNC tend to lie pathologically. They will say anything to cover up coaches sexually harassing players, 20 years of fake classes, decades of free legal help, and money being funneled to players. Etc., etc.


As you can see, they can not stop pretending that UNC-Ch is something it is not.


The plain facts are that Carolina has a public face and its second face that it hides. Their cheating has been going on for 80 years, but to the best of my knowledge only UNC-Ch continues to claim they are pristine. It's a sickness.
08-10-2018 08:36 PM
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