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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #41
RE: ACC realignment
(07-21-2018 06:52 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ...By a quirk of geography, Tulane remains in the game so to speak. Everyone would love New Orleans, but Tulane has downgraded sports three times in the past 60 years...

'Nuff said. I don't care if the Green Wave hire Nick Saban and built a 90,000 seat on-campus stadium -- I wouldn't trust 'em long term.
07-21-2018 07:32 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #42
RE: ACC realignment
(07-21-2018 07:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 06:52 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ...By a quirk of geography, Tulane remains in the game so to speak. Everyone would love New Orleans, but Tulane has downgraded sports three times in the past 60 years...

'Nuff said. I don't care if the Green Wave hire Nick Saban and built a 90,000 seat on-campus stadium -- I wouldn't trust 'em long term.

They tore the 80,000 seat "Sugar Bowl" down in 1980.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2018 02:07 PM by XLance.)
07-21-2018 08:03 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #43
RE: ACC realignment
What if somehow you could persuade Texas, TCU, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to all come to the ACC with a promise of retaining an 8 game league schedule? Now you could also fix some of your alignment issues by setting up in one division Clemson, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt and Boston College. The only cross over (OOC) games you would need are Va Tech - Virginia and possibly Ga Tech - Duke. Strengthwise, you now have equality with the SEC.

But, what's in it for Texhoma?
07-22-2018 07:42 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #44
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 07:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  What if somehow you could persuade Texas, TCU, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to all come to the ACC with a promise of retaining an 8 game league schedule? Now you could also fix some of your alignment issues by setting up in one division Clemson, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt and Boston College. The only cross over (OOC) games you would need are Va Tech - Virginia and possibly Ga Tech - Duke. Strengthwise, you now have equality with the SEC.

But, what's in it for Texhoma?

Nothing - unless ESPN decides to broker it.

The only Big XII team that would be motivated to come to the ACC if payouts were equal would be WVU. The others would need a pay raise to jump, IMO.
07-22-2018 07:51 AM
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Post: #45
RE: ACC realignment
I can't believe how much love Tulane is getting. There are high schools in New Orleans that out-draw the Green Wave. I can't take any expansion list seriously that has Tulane on it.


There are only 4 real non-P5 candidates.

Cincy
UConn
Houston
Navy


Cincy makes the most sense of this group, and is the "safest" pick.

Houston easily has the most upside - getting into the state of Texas, and the 4th largest metro (that will surpass Chicago soon) is very enticing.

Navy
only makes sense as a football only member, and a favor to Notre Dame should the Irish shock the world and desire full conference membership. (I don't see that as possible). And even with this ND miracle, I still don't think that Navy would make the jump.

UConn has geography, and history with former Big East members. That history is good and bad though (suing the ACC felt good at the time, but I think that really helped Louisville snag Maryland's spot).
07-22-2018 09:24 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #46
RE: ACC realignment
(07-21-2018 02:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Louisville simply got all of Maryland's former partners. No effort was made to see if these still made sense.

Yes, that is what it comes down to. Louisville and Notre Dame seems like a logical twice a year basketball match-up. Virginia Tech-Louisville would harken back to the old Metro days.

Notre Dame has Georgia Tech in hoops, which is more of a football series than anything else. They also have Boston College, which in football and basketball only became consistent in the 90's. I suppose it works, but Pitt would probably be just as interesting.
07-22-2018 09:25 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #47
RE: ACC realignment
Just for reference, here is a list of Louisville's most played ACC basketball opponents:

FSU- 45
VT- 41
ND- 37
GT- 33
SU-27
NCSU- 20
Pitt- 20

It drops off from there. I think more should be done to make Louisville feel like part of the conference, rather than sticking them with Virginia because they replaced Maryland.
07-22-2018 09:32 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ACC realignment
(07-21-2018 04:28 PM) Mark Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  Of all the possible G5 schools to get a golden ticket, Tulane would probably rank no higher than #20. Ain't happening.

Without ranking them... yeah, that sounds about right.
If the ACC adds any G5 teams, the top candidates would have to be
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn
USF
Memphis
Houston
Maybe UCF

That's it. No one else need apply. And honestly, half the teams on that list have no realistic shot.

All one has to do is reference the Big XII finalist list to see which schools are actually considered by the presidents of a Power Conference.

In reference to the ACC:

UConn - very likely candidate based on last round of realignment
Cincinnati - possible, but not talked about last round
UCF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
USF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
Tulane - highly regarded academically and new market
Houston - new location, but would be lowest ranking school academically
Rice - highly regarded academically and new market
SMU - highly regarded academically and new market
Air Force - highly unlikely due to location
Colorado St. - highly unlikely due to location
BYU - highly unlikely due to location

If Temple and Memphis didn't make the final cut for the Big XII, it's hard to argue they would for the ACC. Temple has made progress over the years, but there is still a ways to go securing an on-campus stadium. I think that would go a long way for the Owls.

West Virginia and TCU, mentioned previously, might appear (along with any myriad of unrealistic P5 dream schools like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Texas, etc.) on a list made by the presidents.

As far as a realistic G5 shortlist made by current ACC presidents, I think this is much more plausible:

UConn
Cincinnati
Navy*
Tulane
Rice
SMU

I'm not sold on the Middies, but some presidents may go for it.
07-22-2018 09:54 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #49
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 09:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:28 PM) Mark Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  Of all the possible G5 schools to get a golden ticket, Tulane would probably rank no higher than #20. Ain't happening.

Without ranking them... yeah, that sounds about right.
If the ACC adds any G5 teams, the top candidates would have to be
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn
USF
Memphis
Houston
Maybe UCF

That's it. No one else need apply. And honestly, half the teams on that list have no realistic shot.

All one has to do is reference the Big XII finalist list to see which schools are actually considered by the presidents of a Power Conference.

In reference to the ACC:

UConn - very likely candidate based on last round of realignment
Cincinnati - possible, but not talked about last round
UCF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
USF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
Tulane - highly regarded academically and new market
Houston - new location, but would be lowest ranking school academically
Rice - highly regarded academically and new market
SMU - highly regarded academically and new market
Air Force - highly unlikely due to location
Colorado St. - highly unlikely due to location
BYU - highly unlikely due to location

If Temple and Memphis didn't make the final cut for the Big XII, it's hard to argue they would for the ACC. Temple has made progress over the years, but there is still a ways to go securing an on-campus stadium. I think that would go a long way for the Owls.

West Virginia and TCU, mentioned previously, might appear (along with any myriad of unrealistic P5 dream schools like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Texas, etc.) on a list made by the presidents.

As far as a realistic G5 shortlist made by current ACC presidents, I think this is much more plausible:

UConn
Cincinnati
Navy*
Tulane
Rice
SMU

I'm not sold on the Middies, but some presidents may go for it.

You make excellent points.

I would think Navy would ONLY be added as a football-only to balance Notre Dame. There is the added benefit of getting another Notre Dame football game every other year simply because they play Navy (i.e. no effect on the current 5 games/14 schools arrangement).

Even though I'm sure UConn has been talked about more than Cincinnati, I have to think UC is the more likely choice if it came down to those two.

I do think if anything happens to destabilize the Big XII further that WVU would be the best and most likely P5 candidate, with TCU the 2nd most likely.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2018 10:36 AM by Hokie Mark.)
07-22-2018 10:35 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #50
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 09:24 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  I can't believe how much love Tulane is getting. There are high schools in New Orleans that out-draw the Green Wave. I can't take any expansion list seriously that has Tulane on it.


There are only 4 real non-P5 candidates.

Cincy
UConn
Houston
Navy


Cincy makes the most sense of this group, and is the "safest" pick.

Houston easily has the most upside - getting into the state of Texas, and the 4th largest metro (that will surpass Chicago soon) is very enticing.

Navy
only makes sense as a football only member, and a favor to Notre Dame should the Irish shock the world and desire full conference membership. (I don't see that as possible). And even with this ND miracle, I still don't think that Navy would make the jump.

UConn has geography, and history with former Big East members. That history is good and bad though (suing the ACC felt good at the time, but I think that really helped Louisville snag Maryland's spot).

Acknowledging that Tulane is in New Orleans is not the same thing as love. Some folks forget that the old Sugar Bowl was so decrepit that it upper decks were condemned prior to it being torn down and after the Super Dome was completed the edifice was a white elephant. It's now a collection of student dorms on the site. Tulane can play any big football in the Super Dome is need be.

UConn does not have "geography". Geography in an expansion sense means new markets, not redundancy in an existing market. Hartford Connecticut is not an "expansion" market for the ACC. The State of Ohio, Louisiana, and Texas are expansion geography.

Some keep claiming that Navy can't be a full member, as if Notre Dame is not a full member. This misuse of language is as maddening as the use of the word "collusion" which means nothing as opposed to the phrase "conspiracy to _____________ )

Notre Dame is a member of the ACC. They only play 5 football games. If Navy is a member of the ACC they will be a full member, what they will not play is BASKETBALL. There are a number of Olympic Sports where they usually field a competitive team.


Why is this concept so very difficult to grasp? Notre Dame's past relation with the Big East seems to have stunted the intellect of some in regards to what it means to be a conference member.


The Big East was a once or twice a month booty call for Notre Dame. Notre Dame had to marry the ACC. 04-cheers
07-22-2018 01:07 PM
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Post: #51
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 09:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:28 PM) Mark Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  Of all the possible G5 schools to get a golden ticket, Tulane would probably rank no higher than #20. Ain't happening.

Without ranking them... yeah, that sounds about right.
If the ACC adds any G5 teams, the top candidates would have to be
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn
USF
Memphis
Houston
Maybe UCF

That's it. No one else need apply. And honestly, half the teams on that list have no realistic shot.

All one has to do is reference the Big XII finalist list to see which schools are actually considered by the presidents of a Power Conference.

In reference to the ACC:

UConn - very likely candidate based on last round of realignment
Cincinnati - possible, but not talked about last round
UCF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
USF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
Tulane - highly regarded academically and new market
Houston - new location, but would be lowest ranking school academically
Rice - highly regarded academically and new market
SMU - highly regarded academically and new market
Air Force - highly unlikely due to location
Colorado St. - highly unlikely due to location
BYU - highly unlikely due to location

If Temple and Memphis didn't make the final cut for the Big XII, it's hard to argue they would for the ACC. Temple has made progress over the years, but there is still a ways to go securing an on-campus stadium. I think that would go a long way for the Owls.

West Virginia and TCU, mentioned previously, might appear (along with any myriad of unrealistic P5 dream schools like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Texas, etc.) on a list made by the presidents.

As far as a realistic G5 shortlist made by current ACC presidents, I think this is much more plausible:

UConn
Cincinnati
Navy*
Tulane
Rice
SMU

I'm not sold on the Middies, but some presidents may go for it.

You make excellent points.

I would think Navy would ONLY be added as a football-only to balance Notre Dame. There is the added benefit of getting another Notre Dame football game every other year simply because they play Navy (i.e. no effect on the current 5 games/14 schools arrangement).

Even though I'm sure UConn has been talked about more than Cincinnati, I have to think UC is the more likely choice if it came down to those two.

I do think if anything happens to destabilize the Big XII further that WVU would be the best and most likely P5 candidate, with TCU the 2nd most likely.

What is the value of the Army/Navy game? That's part of the Navy equation. So is the Armed Forces network. Navy biggest benefit to the ACC would not be an additional game with ND, the Army-Navy game, or the AF network, it would be 4 ACC football games played in the DC/Baltimore corridor.
07-22-2018 01:11 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #52
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 09:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:28 PM) Mark Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  Of all the possible G5 schools to get a golden ticket, Tulane would probably rank no higher than #20. Ain't happening.

Without ranking them... yeah, that sounds about right.
If the ACC adds any G5 teams, the top candidates would have to be
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn
USF
Memphis
Houston
Maybe UCF

That's it. No one else need apply. And honestly, half the teams on that list have no realistic shot.

All one has to do is reference the Big XII finalist list to see which schools are actually considered by the presidents of a Power Conference.

In reference to the ACC:

UConn - very likely candidate based on last round of realignment
Cincinnati - possible, but not talked about last round
UCF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
USF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
Tulane - highly regarded academically and new market
Houston - new location, but would be lowest ranking school academically
Rice - highly regarded academically and new market
SMU - highly regarded academically and new market
Air Force - highly unlikely due to location
Colorado St. - highly unlikely due to location
BYU - highly unlikely due to location

If Temple and Memphis didn't make the final cut for the Big XII, it's hard to argue they would for the ACC. Temple has made progress over the years, but there is still a ways to go securing an on-campus stadium. I think that would go a long way for the Owls.

West Virginia and TCU, mentioned previously, might appear (along with any myriad of unrealistic P5 dream schools like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Texas, etc.) on a list made by the presidents.

As far as a realistic G5 shortlist made by current ACC presidents, I think this is much more plausible:

UConn
Cincinnati
Navy*
Tulane
Rice
SMU

I'm not sold on the Middies, but some presidents may go for it.

You make excellent points.

I would think Navy would ONLY be added as a football-only to balance Notre Dame. There is the added benefit of getting another Notre Dame football game every other year simply because they play Navy (i.e. no effect on the current 5 games/14 schools arrangement).

Even though I'm sure UConn has been talked about more than Cincinnati, I have to think UC is the more likely choice if it came down to those two.

I do think if anything happens to destabilize the Big XII further that WVU would be the best and most likely P5 candidate, with TCU the 2nd most likely.

We can not manage the ACC based on what Notre Dame may or may not want.
07-22-2018 02:22 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #53
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 09:24 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  I can't believe how much love Tulane is getting. There are high schools in New Orleans that out-draw the Green Wave. I can't take any expansion list seriously that has Tulane on it.


There are only 4 real non-P5 candidates.

Cincy
UConn
Houston
Navy


Cincy makes the most sense of this group, and is the "safest" pick.

Houston easily has the most upside - getting into the state of Texas, and the 4th largest metro (that will surpass Chicago soon) is very enticing.

Navy
only makes sense as a football only member, and a favor to Notre Dame should the Irish shock the world and desire full conference membership. (I don't see that as possible). And even with this ND miracle, I still don't think that Navy would make the jump.

UConn has geography, and history with former Big East members. That history is good and bad though (suing the ACC felt good at the time, but I think that really helped Louisville snag Maryland's spot).

Pervis, if ESPN wanted to keep the ACC an all ETZ league and get to 16 with G5 teams. Cincinnati and Navy would be your duo. Notre Dame would move to 6 games annually with Navy being an annual contest.
07-22-2018 02:33 PM
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Post: #54
RE: ACC realignment
I can't help but conclude from all the speculation about P5 realignment in general, and ACC realignment in particular, is that everybody is where they should be right now. There are no G5 schools whose addition would make any P5 conference better.

And while there may be a small number of P5 to P5 moves that might make the SEC better, those moves wouldn't necessarily make the schools who move better off than they are in their current conferences. That's not to say they won't make the moves anyway. Sometimes schools' presidents act foolishly.

And there are no guarantees that media partners won't make foolish decisions which might seem like good long term strategy in the present. But to me, the most likely P5 realignment is still no realignment at all. All the low hanging fruit has already been plucked.
07-22-2018 03:51 PM
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Post: #55
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 02:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 09:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:28 PM) Mark Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  Of all the possible G5 schools to get a golden ticket, Tulane would probably rank no higher than #20. Ain't happening.

Without ranking them... yeah, that sounds about right.
If the ACC adds any G5 teams, the top candidates would have to be
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn
USF
Memphis
Houston
Maybe UCF

That's it. No one else need apply. And honestly, half the teams on that list have no realistic shot.

All one has to do is reference the Big XII finalist list to see which schools are actually considered by the presidents of a Power Conference.

In reference to the ACC:

UConn - very likely candidate based on last round of realignment
Cincinnati - possible, but not talked about last round
UCF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
USF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
Tulane - highly regarded academically and new market
Houston - new location, but would be lowest ranking school academically
Rice - highly regarded academically and new market
SMU - highly regarded academically and new market
Air Force - highly unlikely due to location
Colorado St. - highly unlikely due to location
BYU - highly unlikely due to location

If Temple and Memphis didn't make the final cut for the Big XII, it's hard to argue they would for the ACC. Temple has made progress over the years, but there is still a ways to go securing an on-campus stadium. I think that would go a long way for the Owls.

West Virginia and TCU, mentioned previously, might appear (along with any myriad of unrealistic P5 dream schools like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Texas, etc.) on a list made by the presidents.

As far as a realistic G5 shortlist made by current ACC presidents, I think this is much more plausible:

UConn
Cincinnati
Navy*
Tulane
Rice
SMU

I'm not sold on the Middies, but some presidents may go for it.

You make excellent points.

I would think Navy would ONLY be added as a football-only to balance Notre Dame. There is the added benefit of getting another Notre Dame football game every other year simply because they play Navy (i.e. no effect on the current 5 games/14 schools arrangement).

Even though I'm sure UConn has been talked about more than Cincinnati, I have to think UC is the more likely choice if it came down to those two.

I do think if anything happens to destabilize the Big XII further that WVU would be the best and most likely P5 candidate, with TCU the 2nd most likely.

We can not manage the ACC based on what Notre Dame may or may not want.



I have been saying that for years, Lance. Glad you have finally come around.

Any ACC expansion plans should not be based on the hope that ND budges one bit from the status quo.

Adding Navy as a football only without ND becoming a football member? Go for it, but don't hope for the other shoe to drop.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2018 04:38 PM by TerryD.)
07-22-2018 04:36 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #56
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 04:36 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 02:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 09:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(07-21-2018 04:28 PM) Mark Wrote:  Without ranking them... yeah, that sounds about right.
If the ACC adds any G5 teams, the top candidates would have to be
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn
USF
Memphis
Houston
Maybe UCF

That's it. No one else need apply. And honestly, half the teams on that list have no realistic shot.

All one has to do is reference the Big XII finalist list to see which schools are actually considered by the presidents of a Power Conference.

In reference to the ACC:

UConn - very likely candidate based on last round of realignment
Cincinnati - possible, but not talked about last round
UCF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
USF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
Tulane - highly regarded academically and new market
Houston - new location, but would be lowest ranking school academically
Rice - highly regarded academically and new market
SMU - highly regarded academically and new market
Air Force - highly unlikely due to location
Colorado St. - highly unlikely due to location
BYU - highly unlikely due to location

If Temple and Memphis didn't make the final cut for the Big XII, it's hard to argue they would for the ACC. Temple has made progress over the years, but there is still a ways to go securing an on-campus stadium. I think that would go a long way for the Owls.

West Virginia and TCU, mentioned previously, might appear (along with any myriad of unrealistic P5 dream schools like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Texas, etc.) on a list made by the presidents.

As far as a realistic G5 shortlist made by current ACC presidents, I think this is much more plausible:

UConn
Cincinnati
Navy*
Tulane
Rice
SMU

I'm not sold on the Middies, but some presidents may go for it.

You make excellent points.

I would think Navy would ONLY be added as a football-only to balance Notre Dame. There is the added benefit of getting another Notre Dame football game every other year simply because they play Navy (i.e. no effect on the current 5 games/14 schools arrangement).

Even though I'm sure UConn has been talked about more than Cincinnati, I have to think UC is the more likely choice if it came down to those two.

I do think if anything happens to destabilize the Big XII further that WVU would be the best and most likely P5 candidate, with TCU the 2nd most likely.

We can not manage the ACC based on what Notre Dame may or may not want.



I have been saying that for years, Lance. Glad you have finally come around.

Any ACC expansion plans should not be based on the hope that ND budges one bit from the status quo.

Adding Navy as a football only without ND becoming a football member? Go for it, but don't hope for the other shoe to drop.

Choices in the ETZ are very limited.
07-22-2018 04:41 PM
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Post: #57
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 04:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 04:36 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 02:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 09:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  All one has to do is reference the Big XII finalist list to see which schools are actually considered by the presidents of a Power Conference.

In reference to the ACC:

UConn - very likely candidate based on last round of realignment
Cincinnati - possible, but not talked about last round
UCF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
USF - highly unlikely due to current FLA presence
Tulane - highly regarded academically and new market
Houston - new location, but would be lowest ranking school academically
Rice - highly regarded academically and new market
SMU - highly regarded academically and new market
Air Force - highly unlikely due to location
Colorado St. - highly unlikely due to location
BYU - highly unlikely due to location

If Temple and Memphis didn't make the final cut for the Big XII, it's hard to argue they would for the ACC. Temple has made progress over the years, but there is still a ways to go securing an on-campus stadium. I think that would go a long way for the Owls.

West Virginia and TCU, mentioned previously, might appear (along with any myriad of unrealistic P5 dream schools like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Texas, etc.) on a list made by the presidents.

As far as a realistic G5 shortlist made by current ACC presidents, I think this is much more plausible:

UConn
Cincinnati
Navy*
Tulane
Rice
SMU

I'm not sold on the Middies, but some presidents may go for it.

You make excellent points.

I would think Navy would ONLY be added as a football-only to balance Notre Dame. There is the added benefit of getting another Notre Dame football game every other year simply because they play Navy (i.e. no effect on the current 5 games/14 schools arrangement).

Even though I'm sure UConn has been talked about more than Cincinnati, I have to think UC is the more likely choice if it came down to those two.

I do think if anything happens to destabilize the Big XII further that WVU would be the best and most likely P5 candidate, with TCU the 2nd most likely.

We can not manage the ACC based on what Notre Dame may or may not want.



I have been saying that for years, Lance. Glad you have finally come around.

Any ACC expansion plans should not be based on the hope that ND budges one bit from the status quo.

Adding Navy as a football only without ND becoming a football member? Go for it, but don't hope for the other shoe to drop.

Choices in the ETZ are very limited.

Do the math on Navy. And consider that heretofore the service academies have not been interested in P conference membership. So in short they will not likely be favorable to an invitation and they certainly won't be able to pay their own way in. But then Temple might not be able to do so, Connecticut is suspicious, and outside of WVU, Cincinnati may be the only one that could.
07-22-2018 04:56 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Online
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Post: #58
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 01:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(07-22-2018 09:24 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  I can't believe how much love Tulane is getting. There are high schools in New Orleans that out-draw the Green Wave. I can't take any expansion list seriously that has Tulane on it.


There are only 4 real non-P5 candidates.

Cincy
UConn
Houston
Navy


Cincy makes the most sense of this group, and is the "safest" pick.

Houston easily has the most upside - getting into the state of Texas, and the 4th largest metro (that will surpass Chicago soon) is very enticing.

Navy
only makes sense as a football only member, and a favor to Notre Dame should the Irish shock the world and desire full conference membership. (I don't see that as possible). And even with this ND miracle, I still don't think that Navy would make the jump.

UConn has geography, and history with former Big East members. That history is good and bad though (suing the ACC felt good at the time, but I think that really helped Louisville snag Maryland's spot).

Acknowledging that Tulane is in New Orleans is not the same thing as love. Some folks forget that the old Sugar Bowl was so decrepit that it upper decks were condemned prior to it being torn down and after the Super Dome was completed the edifice was a white elephant. It's now a collection of student dorms on the site. Tulane can play any big football in the Super Dome is need be.

UConn does not have "geography". Geography in an expansion sense means new markets, not redundancy in an existing market. Hartford Connecticut is not an "expansion" market for the ACC. The State of Ohio, Louisiana, and Texas are expansion geography.

Some keep claiming that Navy can't be a full member, as if Notre Dame is not a full member. This misuse of language is as maddening as the use of the word "collusion" which means nothing as opposed to the phrase "conspiracy to _____________ )

Notre Dame is a member of the ACC. They only play 5 football games. If Navy is a member of the ACC they will be a full member, what they will not play is BASKETBALL. There are a number of Olympic Sports where they usually field a competitive team.


Why is this concept so very difficult to grasp? Notre Dame's past relation with the Big East seems to have stunted the intellect of some in regards to what it means to be a conference member.


The Big East was a once or twice a month booty call for Notre Dame. Notre Dame had to marry the ACC. 04-cheers


So much assumption in this it needs to be addressed ...

1. Tulane played games in the Super Dome up until they built their own on campus football stadium in 2014 .... and the Super Dome was routinely super empty. Even when Tulane went undefeated in 1998, with Tommy Bowden as head coach, and Shaun King as QB ... the Super Dome was more empty than full. So they have demonstrated no ability to "play big time football in the Super Dome if need be".

2. It's not that Navy "cant be a full member", it's that Navy has publicly stated they don't WANT to be a full member in a P5 conference.

3. ND, using the Big East for a booty call once or twice a month?? You are showing your ignorance. ND loved the affiliation with the Big East -- it fit them much better than the ACC. The catholic affiliation alone was perfect for them. And ND's Olympic sports THRIVED in that league, dominating the league in league championships ... until Louisville was invited, then those two schools battled it out for conference championships fairly evenly.

ND chose the ACC because the Big East Conference they had joined, was being ripped apart around them, and they weren't going to wait to find a solution to that problem, they were going to be proactive, in order to preserve their football independence.
07-22-2018 06:40 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #59
RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 01:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  If Navy is a member of the ACC they will be a full member, what they will not play is BASKETBALL. There are a number of Olympic Sports where they usually

Notre Dame already gets a full ACCN share plus a partial regular ACC share. I don't see any way Navy could justify getting a whole 'nuther share! What I could see is Navy bringing enough to the table to justify getting the rest of Notre Dame's share - but that's all.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2018 09:04 PM by Hokie Mark.)
07-22-2018 06:41 PM
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XLance Online
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RE: ACC realignment
(07-22-2018 03:51 PM)ken d Wrote:  I can't help but conclude from all the speculation about P5 realignment in general, and ACC realignment in particular, is that everybody is where they should be right now. There are no G5 schools whose addition would make any P5 conference better.

And while there may be a small number of P5 to P5 moves that might make the SEC better, those moves wouldn't necessarily make the schools who move better off than they are in their current conferences. That's not to say they won't make the moves anyway. Sometimes schools' presidents act foolishly.

And there are no guarantees that media partners won't make foolish decisions which might seem like good long term strategy in the present. But to me, the most likely P5 realignment is still no realignment at all. All the low hanging fruit has already been plucked.


Ken,
It's unfortunate the networks wanted to try to move to 4 P conferences. After they pared things down to 5 they have realized that "it won't work" and nobody knows how to fix it.

As long as we have fewer than six major conferences not all teams will be where they need to be.
I think we need 6 conferences consisting of between 10 and 12 teams.

1. leave the PAC alone at 12 teams

2. The B1G needs to revert to the original Big Ten.

3. Move the ACC back south.
Eleven teams: UVa, Carolina, Duke, State, Wake Forest, Clemson, South Carolina
Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami and Vanderbilt.


4. The SEC is still the premier football conference at eleven
Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Ole Miss,
Mississippi State, Texas A&M, Arkansas.

5. The Big 12 is comfortable at 11 also.
Nebraska, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor,
Oklahoma, Missouri and Oklahoma State.

6. The Eastern Conference adds the only G5
Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Penn State, Maryland,
Louisville, West Virginia and Virginia Tech.

7. Notre Dame can make an arrangement with anyone they want

This is a way that everyone is where they should be, but unfortunately it won't pay for itself.
07-22-2018 07:11 PM
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