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CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #481
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
I think we can all agree that realigning just by geography is not the answer. Sure it can be a variable but it's not the solution.

We should be realigning based on brand, facilities, and fan bases, not markets, not potential, not distance within reason.

For example: playing USM would draw a larger crowd at Georgia Southern than playing FIU even though FIU is closer (barely). Why? Because casual fans have heard of Southern Miss. On the same page, App State would draw thousands more to Statesboro than playing UNCC even though UNCC is closer.

With Georgia Southern starting to capture the Savannah market, we have to put ourselves in a conference with the Troys, USMs, and Marshalls. Otherwise, casual fans in our markets will lose interest and lose it fast.

That's why I like the set up of having 1-2 teams from mostly SEC states that was stated a few pages back.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2017 11:21 AM by TrueBlueDrew.)
05-19-2017 11:13 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #482
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-19-2017 11:13 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I think we can all agree that realigning just by geography is not the answer. Sure it can be a variable but it's not the solution.

We should be realigning based on brand, facilities, and fan bases, not markets, not potential, not distance within reason.

For example: playing USM would draw a larger crowd at Georgia Southern than playing FIU even though FIU is closer (barely). Why? Because casual fans have heard of Southern Miss. On the same page, App State would draw thousands more to Statesboro than playing UNCC even though UNCC is closer.

With Georgia Southern starting to capture the Savannah market, we have to put ourselves in a conference with the Troys, USMs, and Marshalls. Otherwise, casual fans in our markets will lose interest and lose it fast.

That's why I like the set up of having 1-2 teams from mostly SEC states that was stated a few pages back.

I think everyone has valid points. I'm just afraid there is some loss of vision to the overall goal. Which is to get into position as the best overall G5 conference.

That is sort of what led CUSA into the mess it is in now in their initial narrow obsession with the tv money.

Dividing off into two MAC-like regional conferences seems like a surrender of that long-term goal in favor of some ommediate cost-cutting.

I realize I'm in the minority, but I think those long-range strategies should at least be considered and given some eeight when deciding.

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05-19-2017 11:46 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #483
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
I suppose the old ACC would be considered a bus league by some on here. UNCheat, NC State, Duke, WF, UVa, Clemson, Ga Tech and Maryland witin a 10 hr drive of each other. But the games were always well attended, hoops tournament tickets were almost impossible to get and the rivalries were intense. That isn't the case now days.

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05-19-2017 11:58 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #484
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-19-2017 11:58 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  I suppose the old ACC would be considered a bus league by some on here. UNCheat, NC State, Duke, WF, UVa, Clemson, Ga Tech and Maryland witin a 10 hr drive of each other. But the games were always well attended, hoops tournament tickets were almost impossible to get and the rivalries were intense. That isn't the case now days.

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There is nothing wrong with a bus league if all of the schools are those that are the most value-add in getting you to your goal of being the best conference.

I don't think that is the case with purely regional CUSA/SBC.

I have nothing against bus leagues in concept.

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05-19-2017 12:04 PM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #485
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
I think I speak for all GS fans when I say our dream scenario would probably be:

Ark State, UL, USM, WKU, Troy, and USA/UAB in the west

and

GS, GAST, App, MT, ODU, and Marshall in the east
05-19-2017 01:35 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #486
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-19-2017 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:04 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 09:41 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  In a CUSA - Sun Belt mash-up, AState can gain one opponent our fans have any significant interest in. Southern Miss. There are a smattering of people who would be happy about Rice or La.Tech but if you aren't about 40 or older neither really means anything to you.

The closest CUSA is the same distance as the closest Sun Belt FBS.

That said, our AD is in favor of geographic realignment but I bet if you gave him a shot of truth serum his preferred shuffle would be one that creates a doughnut hole in the CUSA and Sun Belt maps. Hell if USM and UAB defected to Sun Belt I suspect he'd be ready to call it a day and not think about it again.

New rivalries aren't going to be developed overnight. It's going to take years. The old Rice alums hate CUSA and still think we rightfully belong with our old SWC rivals, even though they have left us far behind. Reorganizing into two 12-member divisions gives you stability in numbers and geography. Those schools have to play meaningful games against each other for years before they become rivalries, but you have to start somewhere. The worst thing that could happen is for things to stay exactly how they are now, or for several members to break away and form their own conference by themselves. I don't see how Arkansas State wouldn't benefit from playing Louisiana Tech, Southern Mississippi, Rice, UTSA, and North Texas. That gives Arkansas State access to all of the recruits and large media hubs it could possibly want. Not to mention, it's fans could drive to almost all of the road games. The annual basketball tournament would be amazing with so many members being in such close proximity to one another, especially if throw in UTA and Arkansas-Little Rock. That's the fans of 14 schools coming together for a tournament that's never more than 500 miles away.

If the tournament were in El Paso, San Antonio, or Houston it would be more than 500 miles from AState.

We are 298 miles from La.Tech, 304 from ULM, 308 from UAB, 309 from MTSU, 323 from WKU, 366 from Southern Miss, 435 from South Alabama, 447 from Troy and 480 to UL. Now the Texans. 465 to North Texas, 566 to Rice, 683 to Texas State, 720 to UTSA, 1080 to UTEP.

We are closer to Georgia State than we are North Texas, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Closer to UL than Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP

We are closer to App State and Georgia Southern than we are to Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Coastal is 200 miles closer than UTEP.

If Arkansas State wants to be in a compact league and 11 schools were picked to join us in order of distance, we would be with:

La.Tech, ULM, UAB, MTSU, WKU, USM, USA, Troy, Georgia State, UNT, and UL. If we ditch one from either Lincoln Parish or Ouachita Parish, the replacement is Rice.

Out of the five Texas schools only one is in the 11 closest to Arkansas State.

So yep, we like looking east.

You can't have it all. You guys would be in a divion with most of the schools your closest to. If you want East, then you'll also have to visit Marshall, Old Dominion, Appalachian State, FIU, FAU, Coastal Carolina, and Georgia Southern. Those aren't within driving distance.
05-19-2017 05:26 PM
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Post: #487
CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-19-2017 05:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:04 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 09:41 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  In a CUSA - Sun Belt mash-up, AState can gain one opponent our fans have any significant interest in. Southern Miss. There are a smattering of people who would be happy about Rice or La.Tech but if you aren't about 40 or older neither really means anything to you.

The closest CUSA is the same distance as the closest Sun Belt FBS.

That said, our AD is in favor of geographic realignment but I bet if you gave him a shot of truth serum his preferred shuffle would be one that creates a doughnut hole in the CUSA and Sun Belt maps. Hell if USM and UAB defected to Sun Belt I suspect he'd be ready to call it a day and not think about it again.

New rivalries aren't going to be developed overnight. It's going to take years. The old Rice alums hate CUSA and still think we rightfully belong with our old SWC rivals, even though they have left us far behind. Reorganizing into two 12-member divisions gives you stability in numbers and geography. Those schools have to play meaningful games against each other for years before they become rivalries, but you have to start somewhere. The worst thing that could happen is for things to stay exactly how they are now, or for several members to break away and form their own conference by themselves. I don't see how Arkansas State wouldn't benefit from playing Louisiana Tech, Southern Mississippi, Rice, UTSA, and North Texas. That gives Arkansas State access to all of the recruits and large media hubs it could possibly want. Not to mention, it's fans could drive to almost all of the road games. The annual basketball tournament would be amazing with so many members being in such close proximity to one another, especially if throw in UTA and Arkansas-Little Rock. That's the fans of 14 schools coming together for a tournament that's never more than 500 miles away.

If the tournament were in El Paso, San Antonio, or Houston it would be more than 500 miles from AState.

We are 298 miles from La.Tech, 304 from ULM, 308 from UAB, 309 from MTSU, 323 from WKU, 366 from Southern Miss, 435 from South Alabama, 447 from Troy and 480 to UL. Now the Texans. 465 to North Texas, 566 to Rice, 683 to Texas State, 720 to UTSA, 1080 to UTEP.

We are closer to Georgia State than we are North Texas, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Closer to UL than Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP

We are closer to App State and Georgia Southern than we are to Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Coastal is 200 miles closer than UTEP.

If Arkansas State wants to be in a compact league and 11 schools were picked to join us in order of distance, we would be with:

La.Tech, ULM, UAB, MTSU, WKU, USM, USA, Troy, Georgia State, UNT, and UL. If we ditch one from either Lincoln Parish or Ouachita Parish, the replacement is Rice.

Out of the five Texas schools only one is in the 11 closest to Arkansas State.

So yep, we like looking east.

You can't have it all. You guys would be in a divion with most of the schools your closest to. If you want East, then you'll also have to visit Marshall, Old Dominion, Appalachian State, FIU, FAU, Coastal Carolina, and Georgia Southern. Those aren't within driving distance.

Not asking for all. Asking to not be worse off.
05-19-2017 10:40 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #488
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-19-2017 01:35 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I think I speak for all GS fans when I say our dream scenario would probably be:

Ark State, UL, USM, WKU, Troy, and USA/UAB in the west

and

GS, GAST, App, MT, ODU, and Marshall in the east


Yup.
05-20-2017 07:14 AM
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Georgia_Power_Company Offline
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Post: #489
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-20-2017 07:14 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 01:35 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I think I speak for all GS fans when I say our dream scenario would probably be:

Ark State, UL, USM, WKU, Troy, and USA/UAB in the west

and

GS, GAST, App, MT, ODU, and Marshall in the east


Yup.

I could live with that lineup but I don't see anything wrong with what we have now. Given the choice I would prefer to add Marshall and So Miss to our current line up and call it a day.
05-20-2017 08:14 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #490
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-20-2017 08:14 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 07:14 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 01:35 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I think I speak for all GS fans when I say our dream scenario would probably be:

Ark State, UL, USM, WKU, Troy, and USA/UAB in the west

and

GS, GAST, App, MT, ODU, and Marshall in the east


Yup.

I could live with that lineup but I don't see anything wrong with what we have now. Given the choice I would prefer to add Marshall and So Miss to our current line up and call it a day.

Most App fans would be OK with that.
05-20-2017 08:37 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #491
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-19-2017 11:13 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I think we can all agree that realigning just by geography is not the answer. Sure it can be a variable but it's not the solution.

We should be realigning based on brand, facilities, and fan bases, not markets, not potential, not distance within reason.

For example: playing USM would draw a larger crowd at Georgia Southern than playing FIU even though FIU is closer (barely). Why? Because casual fans have heard of Southern Miss. On the same page, App State would draw thousands more to Statesboro than playing UNCC even though UNCC is closer.

With Georgia Southern starting to capture the Savannah market, we have to put ourselves in a conference with the Troys, USMs, and Marshalls. Otherwise, casual fans in our markets will lose interest and lose it fast.

That's why I like the set up of having 1-2 teams from mostly SEC states that was stated a few pages back.

Fact: Our home game vs USM in 2015 drew 27k. Biggest home game we've had besides UH (highly ranked large instate school), Tech(p5), and Navy (everyone knows Navy). None of our Sun Belt games have come close despite a few like ULM and ULL being closer. So it's not all geography.

That said we were also coming off of our best FBS season in 2014 and had 24k against Prairie View previously. So it could have just been excitement around the program and not USM that drew the crowd. I'd like to think we have some potential in San Marcos if we can ever start winning.

I'd still like to have closer games though simply so I could travel to more away games...
05-20-2017 09:35 AM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #492
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-19-2017 10:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 05:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:04 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 09:41 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  In a CUSA - Sun Belt mash-up, AState can gain one opponent our fans have any significant interest in. Southern Miss. There are a smattering of people who would be happy about Rice or La.Tech but if you aren't about 40 or older neither really means anything to you.

The closest CUSA is the same distance as the closest Sun Belt FBS.

That said, our AD is in favor of geographic realignment but I bet if you gave him a shot of truth serum his preferred shuffle would be one that creates a doughnut hole in the CUSA and Sun Belt maps. Hell if USM and UAB defected to Sun Belt I suspect he'd be ready to call it a day and not think about it again.

New rivalries aren't going to be developed overnight. It's going to take years. The old Rice alums hate CUSA and still think we rightfully belong with our old SWC rivals, even though they have left us far behind. Reorganizing into two 12-member divisions gives you stability in numbers and geography. Those schools have to play meaningful games against each other for years before they become rivalries, but you have to start somewhere. The worst thing that could happen is for things to stay exactly how they are now, or for several members to break away and form their own conference by themselves. I don't see how Arkansas State wouldn't benefit from playing Louisiana Tech, Southern Mississippi, Rice, UTSA, and North Texas. That gives Arkansas State access to all of the recruits and large media hubs it could possibly want. Not to mention, it's fans could drive to almost all of the road games. The annual basketball tournament would be amazing with so many members being in such close proximity to one another, especially if throw in UTA and Arkansas-Little Rock. That's the fans of 14 schools coming together for a tournament that's never more than 500 miles away.

If the tournament were in El Paso, San Antonio, or Houston it would be more than 500 miles from AState.

We are 298 miles from La.Tech, 304 from ULM, 308 from UAB, 309 from MTSU, 323 from WKU, 366 from Southern Miss, 435 from South Alabama, 447 from Troy and 480 to UL. Now the Texans. 465 to North Texas, 566 to Rice, 683 to Texas State, 720 to UTSA, 1080 to UTEP.

We are closer to Georgia State than we are North Texas, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Closer to UL than Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP

We are closer to App State and Georgia Southern than we are to Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Coastal is 200 miles closer than UTEP.

If Arkansas State wants to be in a compact league and 11 schools were picked to join us in order of distance, we would be with:

La.Tech, ULM, UAB, MTSU, WKU, USM, USA, Troy, Georgia State, UNT, and UL. If we ditch one from either Lincoln Parish or Ouachita Parish, the replacement is Rice.

Out of the five Texas schools only one is in the 11 closest to Arkansas State.

So yep, we like looking east.

You can't have it all. You guys would be in a divion with most of the schools your closest to. If you want East, then you'll also have to visit Marshall, Old Dominion, Appalachian State, FIU, FAU, Coastal Carolina, and Georgia Southern. Those aren't within driving distance.

Not asking for all. Asking to not be worse off.

I see where you're coming from, but if a merger did happen, maybe ASU wouldn't be in a division with the Texas schools. You'd have to play two or three crossover games a year with us in football, but most of those are still within a 6-hour drive. Not impossible if you take Friday off. If not, Southwest offers really cheap flights to Houston, San Antonio, and El Paso, all big destination cities in Texas with lots to do. The basketball tournament would definitely be closer than El Paso or Birmingham, where they've usually been held for CUSA lately. Maybe the Frisco site works out and it stays there. Are you guys serious about basketball?
05-20-2017 12:57 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #493
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
Obviously it doesn't make sense for the Sun Belt but as a huge Cowboys fan I wish we could have our tournament at the Star
05-20-2017 01:06 PM
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runamuck Offline
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Post: #494
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-20-2017 01:06 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Obviously it doesn't make sense for the Sun Belt but as a huge Cowboys fan I wish we could have our tournament at the Star

those 11 or 1200 fans would be invisible in that 100,000 seat stadium
05-20-2017 01:12 PM
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RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-20-2017 01:12 PM)runamuck Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 01:06 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Obviously it doesn't make sense for the Sun Belt but as a huge Cowboys fan I wish we could have our tournament at the Star

those 11 or 1200 fans would be invisible in that 100,000 seat stadium

They are talking about mini Jerry World in Frisco.
05-20-2017 01:52 PM
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Ourland Offline
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RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-20-2017 01:06 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Obviously it doesn't make sense for the Sun Belt but as a huge Cowboys fan I wish we could have our tournament at the Star

Never been, but I hear it's very nice. I understand the whole area is VIP. A lot of CUSA fans are having a problem with it of course, but how do you realistically find the perfect location for fans that are spread out all over the southwestern and eastern United States? It doesn't happen. Our basketball tournament has been a joke for years. The conference office is thinking outside the box on this one by bringing both the women's and men's tournament under one roof. I hope it works out.
05-20-2017 02:18 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #497
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-20-2017 12:57 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 05:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:04 AM)Ourland Wrote:  New rivalries aren't going to be developed overnight. It's going to take years. The old Rice alums hate CUSA and still think we rightfully belong with our old SWC rivals, even though they have left us far behind. Reorganizing into two 12-member divisions gives you stability in numbers and geography. Those schools have to play meaningful games against each other for years before they become rivalries, but you have to start somewhere. The worst thing that could happen is for things to stay exactly how they are now, or for several members to break away and form their own conference by themselves. I don't see how Arkansas State wouldn't benefit from playing Louisiana Tech, Southern Mississippi, Rice, UTSA, and North Texas. That gives Arkansas State access to all of the recruits and large media hubs it could possibly want. Not to mention, it's fans could drive to almost all of the road games. The annual basketball tournament would be amazing with so many members being in such close proximity to one another, especially if throw in UTA and Arkansas-Little Rock. That's the fans of 14 schools coming together for a tournament that's never more than 500 miles away.

If the tournament were in El Paso, San Antonio, or Houston it would be more than 500 miles from AState.

We are 298 miles from La.Tech, 304 from ULM, 308 from UAB, 309 from MTSU, 323 from WKU, 366 from Southern Miss, 435 from South Alabama, 447 from Troy and 480 to UL. Now the Texans. 465 to North Texas, 566 to Rice, 683 to Texas State, 720 to UTSA, 1080 to UTEP.

We are closer to Georgia State than we are North Texas, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Closer to UL than Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP

We are closer to App State and Georgia Southern than we are to Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Coastal is 200 miles closer than UTEP.

If Arkansas State wants to be in a compact league and 11 schools were picked to join us in order of distance, we would be with:

La.Tech, ULM, UAB, MTSU, WKU, USM, USA, Troy, Georgia State, UNT, and UL. If we ditch one from either Lincoln Parish or Ouachita Parish, the replacement is Rice.

Out of the five Texas schools only one is in the 11 closest to Arkansas State.

So yep, we like looking east.

You can't have it all. You guys would be in a divion with most of the schools your closest to. If you want East, then you'll also have to visit Marshall, Old Dominion, Appalachian State, FIU, FAU, Coastal Carolina, and Georgia Southern. Those aren't within driving distance.

Not asking for all. Asking to not be worse off.

I see where you're coming from, but if a merger did happen, maybe ASU wouldn't be in a division with the Texas schools. You'd have to play two or three crossover games a year with us in football, but most of those are still within a 6-hour drive. Not impossible if you take Friday off. If not, Southwest offers really cheap flights to Houston, San Antonio, and El Paso, all big destination cities in Texas with lots to do. The basketball tournament would definitely be closer than El Paso or Birmingham, where they've usually been held for CUSA lately. Maybe the Frisco site works out and it stays there. Are you guys serious about basketball?
Getting there. Had to labor with a worn out coach for years because we were pouring everything into football, now hoops is starting to get a bigger cut.
05-20-2017 03:05 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #498
RE: CUSA & Sun Belt merger?
(05-20-2017 03:05 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 12:57 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 05:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If the tournament were in El Paso, San Antonio, or Houston it would be more than 500 miles from AState.

We are 298 miles from La.Tech, 304 from ULM, 308 from UAB, 309 from MTSU, 323 from WKU, 366 from Southern Miss, 435 from South Alabama, 447 from Troy and 480 to UL. Now the Texans. 465 to North Texas, 566 to Rice, 683 to Texas State, 720 to UTSA, 1080 to UTEP.

We are closer to Georgia State than we are North Texas, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Closer to UL than Rice, Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP

We are closer to App State and Georgia Southern than we are to Texas State, UTSA, and UTEP.

Coastal is 200 miles closer than UTEP.

If Arkansas State wants to be in a compact league and 11 schools were picked to join us in order of distance, we would be with:

La.Tech, ULM, UAB, MTSU, WKU, USM, USA, Troy, Georgia State, UNT, and UL. If we ditch one from either Lincoln Parish or Ouachita Parish, the replacement is Rice.

Out of the five Texas schools only one is in the 11 closest to Arkansas State.

So yep, we like looking east.

You can't have it all. You guys would be in a divion with most of the schools your closest to. If you want East, then you'll also have to visit Marshall, Old Dominion, Appalachian State, FIU, FAU, Coastal Carolina, and Georgia Southern. Those aren't within driving distance.

Not asking for all. Asking to not be worse off.

I see where you're coming from, but if a merger did happen, maybe ASU wouldn't be in a division with the Texas schools. You'd have to play two or three crossover games a year with us in football, but most of those are still within a 6-hour drive. Not impossible if you take Friday off. If not, Southwest offers really cheap flights to Houston, San Antonio, and El Paso, all big destination cities in Texas with lots to do. The basketball tournament would definitely be closer than El Paso or Birmingham, where they've usually been held for CUSA lately. Maybe the Frisco site works out and it stays there. Are you guys serious about basketball?
Getting there. Had to labor with a worn out coach for years because we were pouring everything into football, now hoops is starting to get a bigger cut.

That's good because basketball could be a big equalizer in the war against the P5. I yearn for a conference that plays great basketball.
05-20-2017 04:19 PM
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