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Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
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WinstonTheWolf Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
I've already solved this problem . . . http://csnbbs.com/thread-779454.html
06-12-2016 07:40 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 12:56 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 11:45 PM)Duckster Wrote:  Long time CUSA schools USM, Rice, UTEP ought to talk about what is best way forward. Can they coax other CUSA west schools- La Tech, UNT, UTSA and media partner ESPN to join in creating a ten team SWC? Suggest study pulling in NMSU, stAte, UL and a fourth school to round out a SWC Conference. Ten schools in conference is best model at this time for G5.

There won't be a new conference created. First of all, they'd need a waiver to get an at large NCAA basketball bid and a piece of the Playoff money. And why would some combination of some CUSA and some Sun Belt schools be worth more to ESPN than the same schools in different conferences?

Look, there aren't going to be any new conferences created. Nor are we going to split the Belt and CUSA into pieces in order to put them back together in some other way. It doesn't work that way.

Barring some other shakeup, the situation is frozen. CUSA has too many teams so they're not raiding us. What are they going to do? Move to 16 teams to take Ga Southern and App State? Not likely. And there'd still probably be no more TV money from such a deal. The prisoner's dilemma (where any team offered a bid by CUSA has to take it because if they turn it down, CUSA would just go after another Belt team, thus weakening what is left of the conference) is over.

But so long as we don't get better, no CUSA team will defect to the Belt. And by better, I mean much better than CUSA. And for more than one season.

And anyway, this isn't our problem. We're not the conference having to slash our athletic department budgets because we relied too heavily on transitory TV dollars. We're not stuck with a three time zone conference that's extremely far flung. We're not stuck with a line up of bowl games where our teams will lose money in just about every one of them. We don't have 14 teams dividing up the Playoff money. We don't have 14 teams fighting for 1 NCAA basketball bid. Our moveups are largely seasoned and contributing (except Coastal).

CUSA got themselves into this jam themselves. They took the wrong teams. They clung to a failed model of markets. There's no need for us to rush out and figure out a way for them to get out of it.

Yes this.

We are actually in a position of strength. CUSA is the conference with the problem, not us. After lopping off our extreme west members, we have a compact league of two divisions that maximizes CFP payoffs per school and controls travel costs. As Tom very clearly stated, we now have 5 bowls games which we can travel to by car for the most part, and media revenue is a push, but I give an edge to the SBC because we can actually easily watch our games in ESPN 3. I loved watching SBC games last year streamed on ESPN 3 and I don't think there was any game that I wanted to watch that I couldn't or wasn't carried on that network.

I truly believe a top 25 ranking will come out of this line up of schools, and once it happens, it will be easy for another SBC school to get back the next time.

I'm honestly hard pressed to find any advantage to giving CUSA a lifeline at this point. The SBC made the right moves, and they made the wrong ones. Period. What both conference SHOULD do is work together on a scheduling agreement to increase rivalries and control travel costs across all sports. AppState is already doing that with UNCC, ODU, Southern Miss, and Marshall. The two leagues ought to codify that relationship with a scheduling agreement that fosters OOC regional rivalries. Done.
06-12-2016 09:06 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
The Get Over Yourselves and Do The Right Thing Before You Go Broke Conferences
Sticking with the 12 team model

Conf A
North Division
App, Charlotte, Marshall, MTSU, ODU, WKU
South Division
Coastal, FAU, FIU, Ga So, Ga St, UAB

Conf B
East Division
La Tech, Troy, ULM, USA, USM, A State
West
N Tex, Rice, Tex St, ULL, UTEP, UTSA
06-12-2016 09:10 AM
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GoAppsGo92 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 09:10 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The Get Over Yourselves and Do The Right Thing Before You Go Broke Conferences
Sticking with the 12 team model

Conf A
North Division
App, Charlotte, Marshall, MTSU, ODU, WKU
South Division
Coastal, FAU, FIU, Ga So, Ga St, UAB

Conf B
East Division
La Tech, Troy, ULM, USA, USM, A State
West
N Tex, Rice, Tex St, ULL, UTEP, UTSA

Anything over 10 doesn't work in the G5, there is no motivation whatsoever for AppState to consider this. We already have home and homes scheduled with three of the schools you put in the north division of your fantasy league. All the SBC needs to do is do our version of an ACC vs. Big East challenge in football, men's and women's basketball, volleyball, and a few other sports. Travel problem solved without creating new leagues and untangling fees and waivers, and media rights.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2016 09:21 AM by GoAppsGo92.)
06-12-2016 09:20 AM
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
So a lot of us have thrown around ideas about who would make up the new conferences, but how do we make it happen within the rules of the NCAA? Seems pretty unprecedented to have a situation where teams in two conferences want to reorganize. We can't create a new conference without changing a rule even though a conference was lost several years.

Like I have said before, the first thing we need to do is poach just one CUSA team. Once that first shot is fired you're on your way to making it happen. We will all probably have to chip in some money for the exit fee. If nothing else think of the strong message it sends the lowly Sun Belt to poach someone from CUSA.
06-12-2016 09:26 AM
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Post: #46
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 12:46 AM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 11:45 PM)Duckster Wrote:  Long time CUSA schools USM, Rice, UTEP ought to talk about what is best way forward. Can they coax other CUSA west schools- La Tech, UNT, UTSA and media partner ESPN to join in creating a ten team SWC? Suggest study pulling in NMSU, stAte, UL and a fourth school to round out a SWC Conference. Ten schools in conference is best model at this time for G5.

This proposal makes sense

Conference I

East

Arkansas State
Louisiana Lafayette
Missouri State
North Texas
Rice

West

New Mexico State
Texas El Paso
Texas San Antonio
Texas State
Wichita State

Conference II

North

Appalachian State
Charlotte
Liberty
James Madison
Old Dominion


South

Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
South Alabama

Conference III

East

UAB
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Middle Tennessee
Troy

West

Little Rock/UMASS
Louisiana Tech
Southern Miss
Texas Arlington/Idaho
Troy
Western Kentucky


Except Coastal is already FBS and you left us out of your list.
06-12-2016 09:59 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #47
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 09:20 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  
(06-12-2016 09:10 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The Get Over Yourselves and Do The Right Thing Before You Go Broke Conferences
Sticking with the 12 team model

Conf A
North Division
App, Charlotte, Marshall, MTSU, ODU, WKU
South Division
Coastal, FAU, FIU, Ga So, Ga St, UAB

Conf B
East Division
La Tech, Troy, ULM, USA, USM, A State
West
N Tex, Rice, Tex St, ULL, UTEP, UTSA

Anything over 10 doesn't work in the G5, there is no motivation whatsoever for AppState to consider this. We already have home and homes scheduled with three of the schools you put in the north division of your fantasy league. All the SBC needs to do is do our version of an ACC vs. Big East challenge in football, men's and women's basketball, volleyball, and a few other sports. Travel problem solved without creating new leagues and untangling fees and waivers, and media rights.

Well, keep in mind--if the SB/CUSA were to do this, wouldn't there then likley be 3 votes out of 5 that would then favor changing the CFP equal distribution back to the original 12 million dollar cap (vs the 10 million now)? The point being, It's not like the current 10 million dollar cap is written in stone. It could change any time it fails to favor 3 out of the 5 non-power conferences.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2016 11:46 AM by Attackcoog.)
06-12-2016 11:45 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 09:26 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  So a lot of us have thrown around ideas about who would make up the new conferences, but how do we make it happen within the rules of the NCAA? Seems pretty unprecedented to have a situation where teams in two conferences want to reorganize. We can't create a new conference without changing a rule even though a conference was lost several years.

Like I have said before, the first thing we need to do is poach just one CUSA team. Once that first shot is fired you're on your way to making it happen. We will all probably have to chip in some money for the exit fee. If nothing else think of the strong message it sends the lowly Sun Belt to poach someone from CUSA.

To work, it would need to be a cooperative effort. Essentially, you need enough schools in each conference to see it as a financially prudent move. Then you'd need adequate leadership from key schools in each conference to get the ball rolling. Reorganizing membership while preserving the NCAA identity of each conference is not an issue. It's just tough to get that many schools rowing cooperatively in the same direction. That said, doing this would be a reorganization---not a culling. Much easier to gain cooperation once everyone understands there are financial benefits and nobody will be left out,
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2016 11:54 AM by Attackcoog.)
06-12-2016 11:52 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
I think the problem with geographic alignment for CUSA/SBC schools is the geography across the south is so wide that you'll never be able to reign in travel costs.

What I think might make more sense is to just take the 10 schools with the biggest football stadiums in each region of the South and make a conference out of that with hopes of getting more TV/CFP money per school.

East: Marshall, MTSU, UAB, App State, Georgia Southern
West: UTSA, North Texas, Arkansas State, Louisiana, Southern Miss

This way you'd be dumping the Coastal's and Charlotte's and their 15k stadiums.

It wouldn't save on travel but it would increase competitiveness for a CFP bowl.
06-12-2016 12:38 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 12:38 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I think the problem with geographic alignment for CUSA/SBC schools is the geography across the south is so wide that you'll never be able to reign in travel costs.

What I think might make more sense is to just take the 10 schools with the biggest football stadiums in each region of the South and make a conference out of that with hopes of getting more TV/CFP money per school.

East: Marshall, MTSU, UAB, App State, Georgia Southern
West: UTSA, North Texas, Arkansas State, Louisiana, Southern Miss

This way you'd be dumping the Coastal's and Charlotte's and their 15k stadiums.

It wouldn't save on travel but it would increase competitiveness for a CFP bowl.

Because when conference memberships are discussed, the one and only driving factor is the size of the venue for the one sport of football. Makes perfect sense to ignore actual PERFORMANCE in football, and completely ignore everything to do with baseball and basketball, and instead look at football stadium capacity as the deciding factor.

Dear goodness I'm glad people like you aren't making these decisions.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2016 01:01 PM by CoastalAlum2011.)
06-12-2016 12:56 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 09:20 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  
(06-12-2016 09:10 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The Get Over Yourselves and Do The Right Thing Before You Go Broke Conferences
Sticking with the 12 team model

Conf A
North Division
App, Charlotte, Marshall, MTSU, ODU, WKU
South Division
Coastal, FAU, FIU, Ga So, Ga St, UAB

Conf B
East Division
La Tech, Troy, ULM, USA, USM, A State
West
N Tex, Rice, Tex St, ULL, UTEP, UTSA

Anything over 10 doesn't work in the G5, there is no motivation whatsoever for AppState to consider this. We already have home and homes scheduled with three of the schools you put in the north division of your fantasy league. All the SBC needs to do is do our version of an ACC vs. Big East challenge in football, men's and women's basketball, volleyball, and a few other sports. Travel problem solved without creating new leagues and untangling fees and waivers, and media rights.

If anything over 10 doesn't work for G5's why did the CFP base the payout on 12 team conferences? AppState has no motivation to consider this? The football part of this is easy, but what about the cost of plane trips for men's and women's basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball teams to Troy 8, USA & Ark St 10, ULM 12, ULL 14, Tex St 20 hrs away? With the exception of the two FL schools (12 hrs) everyone in that set up is within a 7 hour drive of Boone. Yes we're finishing up a H&H with ODU this year and have Charlotte in 2018-19 and Marshall in 2012 & 22. But that's it. It's not like we're playing them every year. Don't get me wrong. I think the current SB make-up is better than CUSA, but I'm looking at this from the financial side. The intent of this thread was to point out how whether some people in CUSA want to admit it or not, we're all in the same boat. TV revenue for G5's continue to fall while costs continue to climb. Ticket revenue is the best way to offset the loss. We prostitute our programs for the lure of playing on TV during the week with nobody in the stands. These games KILL ticket sales. Our schools HAVE to play regionally to have any hope of making it. Don't confine your thinking to just football. The other sports are what drains the bank account.
06-12-2016 01:17 PM
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Post: #52
Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-11-2016 06:28 PM)BeliefBlazer Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 06:21 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Revenue no longer warrants being far-flung so why pay the cost associated?

He's far from the first to recommend it though. I believe we have both discussed a similar rearranging of teams in the past. The continuing problem is that you'll not be able to get enough people to take the risk and change.

The conversation moving from message boards to print media is critical. Any president or chancellor serious about athletics knows regionalization is better given the circumstances. The only real obstacle they have is possible fan backlash. This becoming mainstream changes the environment
06-12-2016 01:19 PM
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Post: #53
Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 09:26 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  So a lot of us have thrown around ideas about who would make up the new conferences, but how do we make it happen within the rules of the NCAA? Seems pretty unprecedented to have a situation where teams in two conferences want to reorganize. We can't create a new conference without changing a rule even though a conference was lost several years.

Like I have said before, the first thing we need to do is poach just one CUSA team. Once that first shot is fired you're on your way to making it happen. We will all probably have to chip in some money for the exit fee. If nothing else think of the strong message it sends the lowly Sun Belt to poach someone from CUSA.

As far as NCAA and CFP are concerned you keep the two current leagues and have just renamed them.
06-12-2016 01:23 PM
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Post: #54
Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 01:17 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-12-2016 09:20 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  
(06-12-2016 09:10 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The Get Over Yourselves and Do The Right Thing Before You Go Broke Conferences
Sticking with the 12 team model

Conf A
North Division
App, Charlotte, Marshall, MTSU, ODU, WKU
South Division
Coastal, FAU, FIU, Ga So, Ga St, UAB

Conf B
East Division
La Tech, Troy, ULM, USA, USM, A State
West
N Tex, Rice, Tex St, ULL, UTEP, UTSA

Anything over 10 doesn't work in the G5, there is no motivation whatsoever for AppState to consider this. We already have home and homes scheduled with three of the schools you put in the north division of your fantasy league. All the SBC needs to do is do our version of an ACC vs. Big East challenge in football, men's and women's basketball, volleyball, and a few other sports. Travel problem solved without creating new leagues and untangling fees and waivers, and media rights.

If anything over 10 doesn't work for G5's why did the CFP base the payout on 12 team conferences? AppState has no motivation to consider this? The football part of this is easy, but what about the cost of plane trips for men's and women's basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball teams to Troy 8, USA & Ark St 10, ULM 12, ULL 14, Tex St 20 hrs away? With the exception of the two FL schools (12 hrs) everyone in that set up is within a 7 hour drive of Boone. Yes we're finishing up a H&H with ODU this year and have Charlotte in 2018-19 and Marshall in 2012 & 22. But that's it. It's not like we're playing them every year. Don't get me wrong. I think the current SB make-up is better than CUSA, but I'm looking at this from the financial side. The intent of this thread was to point out how whether some people in CUSA want to admit it or not, we're all in the same boat. TV revenue for G5's continue to fall while costs continue to climb. Ticket revenue is the best way to offset the loss. We prostitute our programs for the lure of playing on TV during the week with nobody in the stands. These games KILL ticket sales. Our schools HAVE to play regionally to have any hope of making it. Don't confine your thinking to just football. The other sports are what drains the bank account.

CFP pays $1 million per team up to 10. That was adopted after they all went to 12
06-12-2016 01:24 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 09:10 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The Get Over Yourselves and Do The Right Thing Before You Go Broke Conferences
Sticking with the 12 team model

Conf A
North Division
App, Charlotte, Marshall, MTSU, ODU, WKU
South Division
Coastal, FAU, FIU, Ga So, Ga St, UAB

Conf B
East Division
ltu-r, Troy, ULM, USA, A State, n texas
West
USM, Rice, Tex St, UL, UTEP, UTSA
FIFY
06-12-2016 01:34 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-11-2016 07:34 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 07:06 PM)I AM an Eagle! Wrote:  If we're talking merger/cherry picking then I'd like to see the following:

NEW CONFERENCE:

EAST:
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Marshall
Middle Tennessee
South Alabama
UAB
Western Kentucky

WEST:
Arkansas State
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
Rice
Southern Mississippi
UTEP
UTSA


LEFTOVERS CONFERENCE:

Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
Georgia State
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
North Texas
Old Dominion
Texas State
Troy
ULM

Remove Rice, UTEP, and UTSA, replace them with Troy, ODU, and Coastal. Then rework the divisions. That leaves the Texas Schools together

Why would you want to remove Rice? Competitive in sports and the leading academic institution of the schools listed.
06-12-2016 01:35 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-11-2016 05:27 PM)Ed Harley Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 04:44 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 04:02 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  Are there be any schools that the SBC should try to take from CUSA?

I'll say once again that I like MTSU...they will give a boost to all 3 major sports and make a reasonable trip for many of the current SBC schools.

I'll pass. They chose CUSA, they can stay there.

Lol.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2016 01:45 PM by LaCajunsFan.)
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Post: #58
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
(06-12-2016 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-12-2016 01:17 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-12-2016 09:20 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  
(06-12-2016 09:10 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The Get Over Yourselves and Do The Right Thing Before You Go Broke Conferences
Sticking with the 12 team model

Conf A
North Division
App, Charlotte, Marshall, MTSU, ODU, WKU
South Division
Coastal, FAU, FIU, Ga So, Ga St, UAB

Conf B
East Division
La Tech, Troy, ULM, USA, USM, A State
West
N Tex, Rice, Tex St, ULL, UTEP, UTSA

Anything over 10 doesn't work in the G5, there is no motivation whatsoever for AppState to consider this. We already have home and homes scheduled with three of the schools you put in the north division of your fantasy league. All the SBC needs to do is do our version of an ACC vs. Big East challenge in football, men's and women's basketball, volleyball, and a few other sports. Travel problem solved without creating new leagues and untangling fees and waivers, and media rights.

If anything over 10 doesn't work for G5's why did the CFP base the payout on 12 team conferences? AppState has no motivation to consider this? The football part of this is easy, but what about the cost of plane trips for men's and women's basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball teams to Troy 8, USA & Ark St 10, ULM 12, ULL 14, Tex St 20 hrs away? With the exception of the two FL schools (12 hrs) everyone in that set up is within a 7 hour drive of Boone. Yes we're finishing up a H&H with ODU this year and have Charlotte in 2018-19 and Marshall in 2012 & 22. But that's it. It's not like we're playing them every year. Don't get me wrong. I think the current SB make-up is better than CUSA, but I'm looking at this from the financial side. The intent of this thread was to point out how whether some people in CUSA want to admit it or not, we're all in the same boat. TV revenue for G5's continue to fall while costs continue to climb. Ticket revenue is the best way to offset the loss. We prostitute our programs for the lure of playing on TV during the week with nobody in the stands. These games KILL ticket sales. Our schools HAVE to play regionally to have any hope of making it. Don't confine your thinking to just football. The other sports are what drains the bank account.

CFP pays $1 million per team up to 10. That was adopted after they all went to 12

I've heard this said before, but have never found it in writing. If you have a link to a story confirming this I'd appreciate it.
06-12-2016 02:17 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
Times have changed so much so fast. It wasn't that long ago MWC was doing great with only 8 or 9 schools. MWC was fortunate expansion didn't water down their conference. But they didn't get picked apart like CUSA and SBC. TV revenues were the main driver to conference expansion triggering massive realignment. TV revenues once again driving potential conference alignment-this time contraction. Earlier in this thread I shared a CUSA/SBC western based teams concept for a conference. I realize past conference realignment has happened haphazardly, and my thought is probably naive. Just makes sense to tighten the geography whether you're in the east or west. Like most fans, I probably won't drive more than seven to eight hours to an away game. If we care about growing attendance geography of the majority of your conference mates needs to be considered. For example I respect App St and Ga. Southern in the SBC. But living on Louisiana, their locations are beyond the distance I can budget and travel. I wouldn't blame anyone from Georgia or North Carolina feeling the same way about traveling to Louisiana for a game. TV partners probably have a big say in how events unfold. University presidents need to LEAD on future realignment issues as these decisions should be able to stick for decades, not every few years when a TV contract renews.
06-12-2016 02:44 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Commentary: SBC/CUSA Merger?
The initial plan under the CFP was for each conference to get $1m per school up to 12 schools initially. Our commissioner acknowledged that the money ended up being less in the first few years. Will it be that way forever, doubt it. It usually takes about 3-4 years for revenues to be where projected.
06-12-2016 03:04 PM
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