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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #221
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 01:25 PM)44AndThe23 Wrote:  I would love to see Texas in the ACC. The Cowboys play in the NFC East and they do pretty good. The question is, would it make Texas fans sick though? And would they make enough money being TEXAS?

I think on first blush, yes. BUT, if you give them say Texas Tech and Baylor as well, and OU/OSU...it still looks a lot like home.

And I don't think there will be any issues with money if ESPN had a shot of putting that together.
05-07-2015 02:04 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #222
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
There aren't many good answers to going to 18 each unless the SEC gets Virginia Tech or N.C. State. But I'll give it a try.

Texas A&M gives us a large piece of Houston. If the SEC adds Oklahoma we get DFW as well and without having to take T.C.U. Baylor is a long hated A&M rival. If we work this deal then I think we need to split the privates to keep it equitable. T.C.U. gives the ACC a larger piece of DFW without having to take Oklahoma State. The Cowboys are the SEC's price for taking Oklahoma. With both in the same division the Sooners keep the Longhorns as a cross conference rival that they can still schedule at the regular RRR time of the year. Bedlam then stays what it is now a season ending divisional/conference game. The question then is do we take Kansas? I think yes. It's AAU and that appeases SEC academic types at Florida, A&M, Missouri, and Vanderbilt. Plus we need the hoops much worse than you guys.

The ACC takes Texas, T.C.U., Kansas State, and West Virginia. The Wildcats under Snyder are a credible football add, West Virginia rebuilds your footprint connection and gives you Pitt/WVU in the North. If you have to push it to 20 each then Iowa State and Texas Tech are accounted for along with Cincinnati and Connecticut. Personally I would much rather stay at 18 as I think that has some advantages over 20. But there are good arguments on both sides. The difference maker is that if we both go to 20 we don't really add much and we divide everything by two more.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2015 04:35 PM by JRsec.)
05-07-2015 04:33 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #223
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
These 20 team scenarios forget that we eventually want ND to join the conference. It's better to sit at 14 or 18 so that when ND joins we can go to 16 or 20. If we're already at 20 then we've got to go to 24 and there aren't that many candidates available.
05-07-2015 04:39 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #224
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 01:57 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 11:39 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 10:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  So if the ACC and SEC both went to 20, that's 12 teams that would be added.

You could say that's the entire Big 12 + ND + ?. It sounds stupid, but I don't think Cincinnati is a ludicrous choice for the SEC. It's certainly not far-flung from the footprint, and it brings in a massive state, and good basketball.

So something like:

So to the ACC: TX, OU, KSU, TCU, ISU, ND
To the SEC: OSU, Kansas, Baylor, TT, WVU, Cinci

It's just hard to see the SEC getting real excited about that.

I can't say "No!" to Iowa State enough. No!

Give me UConn over Iowa State; 100% of the time. Iowa vs shoring up New England? Not a tough call.

I don't disagree...but if the premise is that ALL the Big 12 teams need a home, NOBODY is going to want ISU. My premise is that the conference that gets UT and OU...they'd be the ones to take that hit.

Oh. Well, in that case...

[Image: 4a530.gif]
05-07-2015 07:55 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #225
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
Of course there is always the chance that Texas could move to the SEC along with Oklahoma and the Dallas studio would become the SECN and the Charlotte studio would become the ACCN. Then the ACC could add either West Virginia or Connecticut and simply wait upon Notre Dame. You might even keep Charlotte as a dual studio for the ACC South and SEC East make Dallas the studio for the SEC West and Bristol the studio for the ACC North. Then you could make each a separate channel and bundle all four and sell it across the entire footprint. That's a lot of money to be shared between 32 schools. The combined brands would simply be irresistible to college sports fans. Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and on and on. At least that way everyone is playing in a division that is close to home.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2015 08:13 PM by JRsec.)
05-07-2015 08:07 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #226
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 08:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Of course there is always the chance that Texas could move to the SEC along with Oklahoma and the Dallas studio would become the SECN and the Charlotte studio would become the ACCN. Then the ACC could add either West Virginia or Connecticut and simply wait upon Notre Dame. You might even keep Charlotte as a dual studio for the ACC South and SEC East make Dallas the studio for the SEC West and Bristol the studio for the ACC North. Then you could make each a separate channel and bundle all four and sell it across the entire footprint. That's a lot of money to be shared between 32 schools. The combined brands would simply be irresistible to college sports fans. Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and on and on. At least that way everyone playing in a division is close to home.

That make a lot more sense that suggesting Kansas State to the ACC. Sheesh!
05-07-2015 08:07 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #227
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 08:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Of course there is always the chance that Texas could move to the SEC along with Oklahoma and the Dallas studio would become the SECN and the Charlotte studio would become the ACCN. Then the ACC could add either West Virginia or Connecticut and simply wait upon Notre Dame. You might even keep Charlotte as a dual studio for the ACC South and SEC East make Dallas the studio for the SEC West and Bristol the studio for the ACC North. Then you could make each a separate channel and bundle all four and sell it across the entire footprint. That's a lot of money to be shared between 32 schools. The combined brands would simply be irresistible to college sports fans. Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and on and on. At least that way everyone is playing in a division that is close to home.

That would be a terrible outcome for the ACC. Relegated permanently to last place status.
05-07-2015 09:18 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #228
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 04:39 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  These 20 team scenarios forget that we eventually want ND to join the conference. It's better to sit at 14 or 18 so that when ND joins we can go to 16 or 20. If we're already at 20 then we've got to go to 24 and there aren't that many candidates available.

NO NO NO NO NO

If Notre Dame wants in, they can jump in as soon as these talks start, and get a place. Otherwise we don't wait for them if the conference has a chance to improve itself.

This conference can't sit around waiting for ND. They've made it abundantly clear that they wish to remain independent, and the ACC needs to operate as such. That ball is in ND's court, not the ACC's, and ND can get their spot whenever they want. But we don't hold a spot for them.
05-08-2015 08:53 AM
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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #229
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 09:18 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 08:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Of course there is always the chance that Texas could move to the SEC along with Oklahoma and the Dallas studio would become the SECN and the Charlotte studio would become the ACCN. Then the ACC could add either West Virginia or Connecticut and simply wait upon Notre Dame. You might even keep Charlotte as a dual studio for the ACC South and SEC East make Dallas the studio for the SEC West and Bristol the studio for the ACC North. Then you could make each a separate channel and bundle all four and sell it across the entire footprint. That's a lot of money to be shared between 32 schools. The combined brands would simply be irresistible to college sports fans. Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and on and on. At least that way everyone is playing in a division that is close to home.

That would be a terrible outcome for the ACC. Relegated permanently to last place status.

That would be a highly disappointing outcome.
05-08-2015 08:54 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #230
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 04:39 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  These 20 team scenarios forget that we eventually want ND to join the conference. It's better to sit at 14 or 18 so that when ND joins we can go to 16 or 20. If we're already at 20 then we've got to go to 24 and there aren't that many candidates available.


Isn't the wiser course of action for the ACC to plan for expansion without counting on ND as a full member, ever?
05-08-2015 10:12 AM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #231
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
4 conferences x 19 members. Play nine one year then the other 9 the next. 2 highest ranked teams in each of the conferences play for the right to play in the CFP.

That's 76 teams. More than enough and call it a day...... but every team is in a Conference.
05-08-2015 10:43 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #232
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-08-2015 08:54 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 09:18 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 08:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Of course there is always the chance that Texas could move to the SEC along with Oklahoma and the Dallas studio would become the SECN and the Charlotte studio would become the ACCN. Then the ACC could add either West Virginia or Connecticut and simply wait upon Notre Dame. You might even keep Charlotte as a dual studio for the ACC South and SEC East make Dallas the studio for the SEC West and Bristol the studio for the ACC North. Then you could make each a separate channel and bundle all four and sell it across the entire footprint. That's a lot of money to be shared between 32 schools. The combined brands would simply be irresistible to college sports fans. Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and on and on. At least that way everyone is playing in a division that is close to home.

That would be a terrible outcome for the ACC. Relegated permanently to last place status.

That would be a highly disappointing outcome.

Why? Nowhere does it say anything about the SEC getting paid more.
05-08-2015 11:07 AM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #233
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-08-2015 11:07 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 08:54 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 09:18 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 08:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Of course there is always the chance that Texas could move to the SEC along with Oklahoma and the Dallas studio would become the SECN and the Charlotte studio would become the ACCN. Then the ACC could add either West Virginia or Connecticut and simply wait upon Notre Dame. You might even keep Charlotte as a dual studio for the ACC South and SEC East make Dallas the studio for the SEC West and Bristol the studio for the ACC North. Then you could make each a separate channel and bundle all four and sell it across the entire footprint. That's a lot of money to be shared between 32 schools. The combined brands would simply be irresistible to college sports fans. Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and on and on. At least that way everyone is playing in a division that is close to home.

That would be a terrible outcome for the ACC. Relegated permanently to last place status.

That would be a highly disappointing outcome.

Why? Nowhere does it say anything about the SEC getting paid more.

What JR is suggesting is the re-creation of the old Southern Conference that had 23 members before it split in 1933.
05-08-2015 11:51 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #234
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  There aren't many good answers to going to 18 each unless the SEC gets Virginia Tech or N.C. State. But I'll give it a try.

Texas A&M gives us a large piece of Houston. If the SEC adds Oklahoma we get DFW as well and without having to take T.C.U. Baylor is a long hated A&M rival. If we work this deal then I think we need to split the privates to keep it equitable. T.C.U. gives the ACC a larger piece of DFW without having to take Oklahoma State. The Cowboys are the SEC's price for taking Oklahoma. With both in the same division the Sooners keep the Longhorns as a cross conference rival that they can still schedule at the regular RRR time of the year. Bedlam then stays what it is now a season ending divisional/conference game. The question then is do we take Kansas? I think yes. It's AAU and that appeases SEC academic types at Florida, A&M, Missouri, and Vanderbilt. Plus we need the hoops much worse than you guys.

The ACC takes Texas, T.C.U., Kansas State, and West Virginia. The Wildcats under Snyder are a credible football add, West Virginia rebuilds your footprint connection and gives you Pitt/WVU in the North. If you have to push it to 20 each then Iowa State and Texas Tech are accounted for along with Cincinnati and Connecticut. Personally I would much rather stay at 18 as I think that has some advantages over 20. But there are good arguments on both sides. The difference maker is that if we both go to 20 we don't really add much and we divide everything by two more.

The biggest problem I see with that, JR, is that I don't believe two Texas schools is enough to give the ACC critical mass. Eyeballs in Texas would only get one league game a year with local rooting interest. And even the RRR game isn't an ACC crossover - it's an SEC crossover.

Looking at the longer term picture, it's not clear to me that either Baylor or Kansas State remain strong after their current coach leaves, and in K State's case, that could be much sooner than later. Before Snyder got there, the Wildcats were as inept as their in-state brothers in Lawrence. In the few years BS (between Snyder) they regressed quickly to that level.

I don't think Texas goes anywhere without at least 3 important regional rivals joining them. They may be arrogant and condescending, but I don't think they are stupid. If they aren't playing a lot of games against Texas/Oklahoma teams, they are going to lose recruits to A&M. That's unforgivable in Austin.
05-08-2015 11:55 AM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #235
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
Let's say you up the number of teams to 36, have 6 divisions, and then an 8 team playoff - 6 division champs and two wild cards:

Northeast

BC, Syracuse, Pitt, ND, WVa, VT

Atlantic Coast

UVa, UNC, NCSU, Duke, WF, Navy

Southeast

Miami, FSU, Florida, UGA, GT, SC

South

Louisville, Vandy, Tennessee, Bama, Auburn, Clemson

Gulf Coast

LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, TAMU, Arkansas, Mizzou

Southwest

Texas, OU, OSU, Baylor, TCU, Kansas

You play your 5 division schools for the division title. Then you play 5 other schools in the remainder of the 30. Then you get 2 other games for FCS chumps, a game against a B10/P12 school, or a G-5.

The downside is you no longer have a college feel - it's like the NFL
05-08-2015 12:03 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #236
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-07-2015 07:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 06:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  Texas and Oklahoma in the ACC? Are you guys smoking rocks? What the hell happened to the good old fashioned, sensible realignment talk of our forefathers? You know, like "should we destroy the Big East or should we watch UNC beat the living daylights out of Clempson twice a year for eternity?"

Your "twice a year" comment gives you away.

The "good old fashioned" realignment talk went away when football became approx. 4X more valuable than basketball.

Any more questions?

You smoke rocks if you think the University of Oklahoma will ever be in the ACC. I understand there is nothing of importance to talk about, but jeez!
05-08-2015 12:04 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-08-2015 12:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 07:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 06:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  Texas and Oklahoma in the ACC? Are you guys smoking rocks? What the hell happened to the good old fashioned, sensible realignment talk of our forefathers? You know, like "should we destroy the Big East or should we watch UNC beat the living daylights out of Clempson twice a year for eternity?"

Your "twice a year" comment gives you away.

The "good old fashioned" realignment talk went away when football became approx. 4X more valuable than basketball.

Any more questions?

You smoke rocks if you think the University of Oklahoma will ever be in the ACC. I understand there is nothing of importance to talk about, but jeez!

Texas Tech, OU, OSU, KSU, Baylor, and WVa all have their detractors in the ACC. Only Kansas, TCU, Texas, and ISU would start the process without at least one blackball.

The blackball reasons vary. TT is VERY far away and their administration has had public problems. OU and OSU present the ACC with a highly political president (Boren) and a university with a billionaire with direct influence in the program (Pickens). KSU is seen by some as a large community college. UVa, Duke, and GT have problems with WVa's admissions standards. With Baylor there is a religious issue. That's not to say that money, ESPN, and negotiations would not overcome these issues and those 6 would get the necessary 3/4th votes, but these issues are real for some.

The real problem with adding Texas, is that to keep them happy, you will have to schedule tournaments in Texas to keep them happy. Look at how unhappy FSU is to play a tournament in NC and then magnify that regional disparity. Once you add Texas, the geographic mid-point of the league moves to somewhere near Nashville.
05-08-2015 12:17 PM
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domer1978 Offline
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Post: #238
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-08-2015 12:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 12:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 07:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 06:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  Texas and Oklahoma in the ACC? Are you guys smoking rocks? What the hell happened to the good old fashioned, sensible realignment talk of our forefathers? You know, like "should we destroy the Big East or should we watch UNC beat the living daylights out of Clempson twice a year for eternity?"

Your "twice a year" comment gives you away.

The "good old fashioned" realignment talk went away when football became approx. 4X more valuable than basketball.

Any more questions?

You smoke rocks if you think the University of Oklahoma will ever be in the ACC. I understand there is nothing of importance to talk about, but jeez!

Texas Tech, OU, OSU, KSU, Baylor, and WVa all have their detractors in the ACC. Only Kansas, TCU, Texas, and ISU would start the process without at least one blackball.

The blackball reasons vary. TT is VERY far away and their administration has had public problems. OU and OSU present the ACC with a highly political president (Boren) and a university with a billionaire with direct influence in the program (Pickens). KSU is seen by some as a large community college. UVa, Duke, and GT have problems with WVa's admissions standards. With Baylor there is a religious issue. That's not to say that money, ESPN, and negotiations would not overcome these issues and those 6 would get the necessary 3/4th votes, but these issues are real for some.

The real problem with adding Texas, is that to keep them happy, you will have to schedule tournaments in Texas to keep them happy. Look at how unhappy FSU is to play a tournament in NC and then magnify that regional disparity. Once you add Texas, the geographic mid-point of the league moves to somewhere near Nashville.

Catholics are okay but not Baptist?
05-08-2015 12:24 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #239
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-08-2015 12:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Texas Tech, OU, OSU, KSU, Baylor, and WVa all have their detractors in the ACC. Only Kansas, TCU, Texas, and ISU would start the process without at least one blackball.

The blackball reasons vary.
OK, let's examine those reasons.

Quote:TT is VERY far away and their administration has had public problems.
Agreed. If you complain about traveling to Miami and BC, you'll HATE Texas Tech.

Quote:OU and OSU present the ACC with a highly political president (Boren) and a university with a billionaire with direct influence in the program (Pickens).
These sound like temporary problems - who knows when those guys fade away?

Quote:KSU is seen by some as a large community college.
So Louisville, then? Been there, done that.

Quote:UVa, Duke, and GT have problems with WVa's admissions standards.
On the other hand, some ACC teams have problems with the admission standards at UVa, Duke and GT.

Quote:With Baylor there is a religious issue.
As opposed to Wake Forest, Boston College and Notre Dame? (OK, Wake not so much, but still)
05-08-2015 12:34 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #240
RE: Proposal to add Texas to ACC
(05-08-2015 08:54 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 09:18 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 08:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Of course there is always the chance that Texas could move to the SEC along with Oklahoma and the Dallas studio would become the SECN and the Charlotte studio would become the ACCN. Then the ACC could add either West Virginia or Connecticut and simply wait upon Notre Dame. You might even keep Charlotte as a dual studio for the ACC South and SEC East make Dallas the studio for the SEC West and Bristol the studio for the ACC North. Then you could make each a separate channel and bundle all four and sell it across the entire footprint. That's a lot of money to be shared between 32 schools. The combined brands would simply be irresistible to college sports fans. Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and on and on. At least that way everyone is playing in a division that is close to home.

That would be a terrible outcome for the ACC. Relegated permanently to last place status.

That would be a highly disappointing outcome.

Occam's razor applies to all things in life. Don't think like an ACC guy, or even an SEC guy. But think like a Texas fan. Which schedule gets you jazzed for the Fall?

1. Arkansas, Oklahoma, L.S.U., A&M, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and two OOC games against in state foes.

2. Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, and N.C. State, plus 5 of your 7 OOC games against Oklahoma, Baylor, Texas Tech, T.C.U. and B.Y.U.

3. Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Southern California, Stanford, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State.

I won't even list a Big 10 line up.

Travel matters to fans. Match ups matter to fans. Rivalries matter to fans. And, most importantly it's fans who buy the tickets to attend the games.

You see for all the wild speculation we all have fun with in the end it is the practical things that will drive any decision that is made. To make that decision you will have to think like a Texas fan because those are the people the Texas athletic director is going to have to please. So far their #1 preference is pretty plain. They want to keep the Big 12 with them in the center of it. But profitability is changing, as is fan loyalties. A&M is gaining in demographics. And the network profitability figures that came out this week were rather astounding. I'll post a link when I can.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...rks-050715

These numbers will either force the PAC to reconsider a large Big 12 move, or force Texas to look more carefully at their long term NET, or force the rest of the Big 12 to do the same.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 02:42 PM by JRsec.)
05-08-2015 02:36 PM
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