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AlaIllTex Offline
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Post: #41
RE: this conference is dead
(03-09-2013 10:57 PM)Journeyman22 Wrote:  I'd like to know who suggested Sam Houston and their 8000 fans per game, or Liberty. Neither should be in this conversation, not now.

App State and GA Southern for football, and NMSU for hoops credibility.

I can see ULL and ASU thinking a bid to CUSA will be forthcoming, but they may want to play nice in the sandbox just in case. To say you're out in 3 is childish and irresponsible. Where are the adults?


Sam Houston should be a credible candidate if: they commit to expanding their stadium to 28,000 or so and commit to a FBS level athletic budget across all sports that would lead to competitive programs. That should be the minimum criteria for any FCS program wishing to upgrade. I don't know that they've done that or are capable of doing so. If they are, I see no difference between UTSA, Texas State, or Georgia Southern, Charlotte and Sam Houston.

Liberty I just don't get. The political and anti-gay thing is repugnant to so many folks. As is Falwell and their dynastic succession. Their reputation is terrible, so much so, that I'd imagine they might have trouble scheduling non-conference games because of outcry from students/alumni at those schools for supporting the Falwell's agenda with guarantee checks or home/home agreements. I'm not trying to dump on Liberty, but Im not sure their reputation isn't so sullied that not only would our own association with them make us look bad, but that they might fail because of animosity to them in general. If we're that desperate, Jacksonville State has a place to play and would say yes right now. So would Lamar.
03-10-2013 01:04 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #42
Re: RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 01:04 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 10:57 PM)Journeyman22 Wrote:  I'd like to know who suggested Sam Houston and their 8000 fans per game, or Liberty. Neither should be in this conversation, not now.

App State and GA Southern for football, and NMSU for hoops credibility.

I can see ULL and ASU thinking a bid to CUSA will be forthcoming, but they may want to play nice in the sandbox just in case. To say you're out in 3 is childish and irresponsible. Where are the adults?


Sam Houston should be a credible candidate if: they commit to expanding their stadium to 28,000 or so and commit to a FBS level athletic budget across all sports that would lead to competitive programs. That should be the minimum criteria for any FCS program wishing to upgrade. I don't know that they've done that or are capable of doing so. If they are, I see no difference between UTSA, Texas State, or Georgia Southern, Charlotte and Sam Houston.

Liberty I just don't get. The political and anti-gay thing is repugnant to so many folks. As is Falwell and their dynastic succession. Their reputation is terrible, so much so, that I'd imagine they might have trouble scheduling non-conference games because of outcry from students/alumni at those schools for supporting the Falwell's agenda with guarantee checks or home/home agreements. I'm not trying to dump on Liberty, but Im not sure their reputation isn't so sullied that not only would our own association with them make us look bad, but that they might fail because of animosity to them in general. If we're that desperate, Jacksonville State has a place to play and would say yes right now. So would Lamar.

I would leave it up to TXST whether they want SHSU even considered.
03-10-2013 01:10 AM
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AlaIllTex Offline
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Post: #43
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 01:10 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 01:04 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 10:57 PM)Journeyman22 Wrote:  I'd like to know who suggested Sam Houston and their 8000 fans per game, or Liberty. Neither should be in this conversation, not now.

App State and GA Southern for football, and NMSU for hoops credibility.

I can see ULL and ASU thinking a bid to CUSA will be forthcoming, but they may want to play nice in the sandbox just in case. To say you're out in 3 is childish and irresponsible. Where are the adults?


Sam Houston should be a credible candidate if: they commit to expanding their stadium to 28,000 or so and commit to a FBS level athletic budget across all sports that would lead to competitive programs. That should be the minimum criteria for any FCS program wishing to upgrade. I don't know that they've done that or are capable of doing so. If they are, I see no difference between UTSA, Texas State, or Georgia Southern, Charlotte and Sam Houston.

Liberty I just don't get. The political and anti-gay thing is repugnant to so many folks. As is Falwell and their dynastic succession. Their reputation is terrible, so much so, that I'd imagine they might have trouble scheduling non-conference games because of outcry from students/alumni at those schools for supporting the Falwell's agenda with guarantee checks or home/home agreements. I'm not trying to dump on Liberty, but Im not sure their reputation isn't so sullied that not only would our own association with them make us look bad, but that they might fail because of animosity to them in general. If we're that desperate, Jacksonville State has a place to play and would say yes right now. So would Lamar.

I would leave it up to TXST whether they want SHSU even considered.

Good point.
03-10-2013 01:12 AM
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mathenis89 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: this conference is dead
What's the story behind this thread? Did I miss something today?
03-10-2013 01:12 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #45
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 01:12 AM)mathenis89 Wrote:  What's the story behind this thread? Did I miss something today?

Apparently a slap fight at the expansion vote.
03-10-2013 01:33 AM
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troy4ever Offline
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Post: #46
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 01:33 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 01:12 AM)mathenis89 Wrote:  What's the story behind this thread? Did I miss something today?

Apparently a slap fight at the expansion vote.

What I want to know is who is the source of this supposed disagreement? How do we know this is true and not just message board fodder.
03-10-2013 01:36 AM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #47
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 12:46 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 12:42 AM)troy4ever Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 12:41 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 12:25 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  I want to know who it was that opposed NMSU!

If it was about NMSU, and we dont really know what happened (we weren't there), it could have been us.

Or us.

Or both. That's what I'm wondering. I have no clue what WKU is thinking right now (do they in fact have a C-USA invite and participating in these conversations?)... Georgia State doesn't have a vote yet that I know of. MTSU, FAU, and FIU can't vote from the East. UNT can't vote from the West. It sounds like if anyone opposed them it could be one or both of us. I don't know who would suggest SHSU though, that doesn't make any sense.

Well the western schools keep saying "add NMSU" despite knowing it makes the east unhappy SHSU could be a way for the east schools to jab back at the western schools which sound like they would never vote for them. Politics get weird all the time.
03-10-2013 03:11 AM
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Post: #48
RE: this conference is dead
I have no inside info. Everyone I know is being tight-lipped.

But let's assume they are holding to the bylaws and I suspect they are given what others are saying (including the commissioner's comments about consensus building and we could invite someone today if we knew our model), there are 8 voting schools and 7 needed to admit someone or from the other angle, two no's required to block.

Lamar. Arkansas State has the longest history being charter members with them in the SLC and ASC. Louisiana had history with them in the SLC and as charter members of the ASC. Lamar was a charter member of the ASC because of basketball. They were a pain as the ASC tried to become a football league because they weren't willing to invest in a move to I-A. They dropped football to divert resources to basketball and got worse in basketball then bailed to the SLC. When the ASC-Sun Belt merger took place Lamar tried to block UALR. I feel pretty confident they have at least three firm no votes.

Sam Houston State. They play good football and could competitive fairly quickly. Arkansas State and Louisiana aren't likely to support adding a Texas school that can't sell tickets for successful football. Both recruit the area so adding a new Texas FBS won't be wildly supported. If someone is already FBS that's not such a problem. Both take pride in their fan support and adding a school struggling to sell football tickets better bring something (namely very good basketball).

Georgia Southern. I'm sure GaSt, UTA, TXST are allowed to speak even though they can't vote. I suspect GaSouth has a decent chance but it isn't travel friendly for the western wing.

App, a similar story travel no fun for the western wing but probably has a decent chance.

NMSU. Arkansas State and Louisiana played them in the Big West and Sun Belt. NMSU was well liked despite the crappy travel. They got along with everyone and were competitive across the board even in football with Samuel at the helm.

Idaho is the trip from hell, hard to imagine there is much in the way of serious support.

12 team football model. Fact of the matter is that of all the BCS busters, only NIU has emerged from a title game.

As for the purported "screw you we aren't going to be here" mindset well....

The Big East doesn't go to 12 until 2015. There is no reason for the new Big East to invite Tulsa today. Most likely option is Tulsa gets the call this time next year. That's important because that means Tulsa out in 2015, the very time when CUSA is renegotiating the TV deal that expires in 2016. Fox Sports 1 and 2 are on the air. Depending on how the numbers work, being at 16 has some merit. NBC Sport in MLS used a strategy where they added late games, carrying some games that had been slated for the Comcast Regionals as national games. No reason to beleve FS1 and FS2 don't follow tha model.

And everything is waiting on the Big 10. Odds are Big 10 adds two but from where.
03-10-2013 05:19 AM
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Cat79 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 01:10 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 01:04 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 10:57 PM)Journeyman22 Wrote:  I'd like to know who suggested Sam Houston and their 8000 fans per game, or Liberty. Neither should be in this conversation, not now.

App State and GA Southern for football, and NMSU for hoops credibility.

I can see ULL and ASU thinking a bid to CUSA will be forthcoming, but they may want to play nice in the sandbox just in case. To say you're out in 3 is childish and irresponsible. Where are the adults?


Sam Houston should be a credible candidate if: they commit to expanding their stadium to 28,000 or so and commit to a FBS level athletic budget across all sports that would lead to competitive programs. That should be the minimum criteria for any FCS program wishing to upgrade. I don't know that they've done that or are capable of doing so. If they are, I see no difference between UTSA, Texas State, or Georgia Southern, Charlotte and Sam Houston.

Liberty I just don't get. The political and anti-gay thing is repugnant to so many folks. As is Falwell and their dynastic succession. Their reputation is terrible, so much so, that I'd imagine they might have trouble scheduling non-conference games because of outcry from students/alumni at those schools for supporting the Falwell's agenda with guarantee checks or home/home agreements. I'm not trying to dump on Liberty, but Im not sure their reputation isn't so sullied that not only would our own association with them make us look bad, but that they might fail because of animosity to them in general. If we're that desperate, Jacksonville State has a place to play and would say yes right now. So would Lamar.

I would leave it up to TXST whether they want SHSU even considered.

Texas State would not support Sam Houston. We had to fight with their representatives in the state legislature. They were fighting our academic moves and stirred up other issues trying to make themselves feel better about trying to be the king of FCS. Let them rot in FCS
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 05:39 AM by Cat79.)
03-10-2013 05:22 AM
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Cat79 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 01:04 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 10:57 PM)Journeyman22 Wrote:  I'd like to know who suggested Sam Houston and their 8000 fans per game, or Liberty. Neither should be in this conversation, not now.

App State and GA Southern for football, and NMSU for hoops credibility.

I can see ULL and ASU thinking a bid to CUSA will be forthcoming, but they may want to play nice in the sandbox just in case. To say you're out in 3 is childish and irresponsible. Where are the adults?


Sam Houston should be a credible candidate if: they commit to expanding their stadium to 28,000 or so and commit to a FBS level athletic budget across all sports that would lead to competitive programs. That should be the minimum criteria for any FCS program wishing to upgrade. I don't know that they've done that or are capable of doing so. If they are, I see no difference between UTSA, Texas State, or Georgia Southern, Charlotte and Sam Houston.

Liberty I just don't get. The political and anti-gay thing is repugnant to so many folks. As is Falwell and their dynastic succession. Their reputation is terrible, so much so, that I'd imagine they might have trouble scheduling non-conference games because of outcry from students/alumni at those schools for supporting the Falwell's agenda with guarantee checks or home/home agreements. I'm not trying to dump on Liberty, but Im not sure their reputation isn't so sullied that not only would our own association with them make us look bad, but that they might fail because of animosity to them in general. If we're that desperate, Jacksonville State has a place to play and would say yes right now. So would Lamar.

Sam Houston State has made no effort to improve their football facilities. Sammy State can not fill their stadium after two runs to the FCS title game. They have about half the student population of Texas State and UTSA. They are not ready for FBS and furthermore, lack the commitment to be a viable candidate.
03-10-2013 05:32 AM
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GSU Eagles Offline
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Post: #51
RE: this conference is dead
So it sounds like the argument/decision that occurred in the meeting is likely a debate between adding NMSU and Liberty. I can't imagine SHSU could be ready in time.
03-10-2013 08:09 AM
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Seminole Indian Offline
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Post: #52
RE: this conference is dead
(03-09-2013 06:55 PM)statefanatic Wrote:  As bad as it hurts me to say this. It was ASU along with WKU and ULL. The freaking I'm the best team in the conference arguement is getting old.
First of all the SBC is not dead no matter who leaves, and there are some quality programs (apparently about 20 or so) ready willing and able to join.

The 'I'm the best team in the conference argument' never gets old for the fans, players or coaches of any school in any conference. I'm a middle of the pack team in any conference gets old in a hurry, something that will become painfully true for some of the departing teams.

So other than establishing that you have no regards for the truth what is the point of your post.

By the way I just spent some time listening to Benson discuss where the SBC is and think he is very realistic about its future. The SBC should be a solid G5 Conference going forward, with or without USU, UL, or any current member, with a real good chance of having a team in position to grab that guaranteed spot in the future, because the next Boise will come from the SBC, something Benson knows is going to happen. He is not 100% sure who that team is but I am..........unless they leave the SBC then they will not be the next Boise.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 08:26 AM by Seminole Indian.)
03-10-2013 08:21 AM
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BRtransplant Offline
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Post: #53
RE: this conference is dead
If the Sun Belt membership becomes divided over the issue of its geographic footprint, the conference may very well not survive. Right now, NMSU is the best available option for the SBC and should be added immediately. The eastern schools are at fault here and I don't blame ULL and ASU for being pissed.
03-10-2013 09:53 AM
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geauxcajuns Offline
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Post: #54
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 09:53 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  If the Sun Belt membership becomes divided over the issue of its geographic footprint, the conference may very well not survive. Right now, NMSU is the best available option for the SBC and should be added immediately. The eastern schools are at fault here and I don't blame ULL and ASU for being pissed.

You are absolutely correct, throw in Texas State and ULM into that mix as well. Starting next year that will be 4 schools who will veto any and all SLC schools as well as 3 teams added in the east.

I understand the concerns of the eastern schools as well, they know as soon as Tulsa, Marshall and ODU are out of CUSA the Sun Belt will lose WKU, stAte and Louisiana to CUSA.
03-10-2013 10:00 AM
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Cat79 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 10:00 AM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 09:53 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  If the Sun Belt membership becomes divided over the issue of its geographic footprint, the conference may very well not survive. Right now, NMSU is the best available option for the SBC and should be added immediately. The eastern schools are at fault here and I don't blame ULL and ASU for being pissed.

You are absolutely correct, throw in Texas State and ULM into that mix as well. Starting next year that will be 4 schools who will veto any and all SLC schools as well as 3 teams added in the east.

I understand the concerns of the eastern schools as well, they know as soon as Tulsa, Marshall and ODU are out of CUSA the Sun Belt will lose WKU, stAte and Louisiana to CUSA.

If CUSA adds New Mexico State then UTEP is out as soon as possible.
03-10-2013 10:11 AM
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Cat79 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 08:09 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  So it sounds like the argument/decision that occurred in the meeting is likely a debate between adding NMSU and Liberty. I can't imagine SHSU could be ready in time.
Sam Houston is not ready. Facilities-not, Attendance-not
03-10-2013 10:16 AM
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GSU Eagles Offline
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Post: #57
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 10:16 AM)Cat79 Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 08:09 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  So it sounds like the argument/decision that occurred in the meeting is likely a debate between adding NMSU and Liberty. I can't imagine SHSU could be ready in time.
Sam Houston is not ready. Facilities-not, Attendance-not

Yes. Agreed. This is why Liberty appears to be coming in the conversation. No doubt they are ready in terms on money and facilities.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 10:22 AM by GSU Eagles.)
03-10-2013 10:21 AM
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GSU Eagles Offline
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Post: #58
RE: this conference is dead
(03-10-2013 09:53 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  If the Sun Belt membership becomes divided over the issue of its geographic footprint, the conference may very well not survive. Right now, NMSU is the best available option for the SBC and should be added immediately. The eastern schools are at fault here and I don't blame ULL and ASU for being pissed.

NMSU as the third choice is a no brainier in the old payout system. The problem the Presidents are now likely having is that adding NMSU will at some point cost their school $500k because of their bad football and the new pay for performance system. They are asking themselves " is adding NMSU with no hope of improving in football worth us potentially giving $500k to another conference we compete against"

Tough issue which is why things went the way they did. Some see this as an opportunity to take advantage of the new payout system by adding good football. SB has potential to blow past CUSA here given all the teams they just added that have not always done well in RPIs. Most Presidents are probably saying "lets add the best football programs available with the best chance to improve"
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 10:31 AM by GSU Eagles.)
03-10-2013 10:27 AM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #59
RE: this conference is dead
Starting to sound a lot like the WAC, disagreements, wouldn't or couldn't add schools quickly, lost too many schools until they just couldn't add schools. Biggest advantage SBC has is that it is in the east.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 10:34 AM by cleburneslim.)
03-10-2013 10:31 AM
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HappyAppy Offline
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Post: #60
RE: this conference is dead
Quote:What I want to know is who is the source of this supposed disagreement? How do we know this is true and not just message board fodder.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 10:36 AM by HappyAppy.)
03-10-2013 10:36 AM
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