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The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #101
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-17-2013 12:34 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 12:29 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Niu scouted the in bounds plays well, we failed to adjust, and our in bounder struggled to pull the trigger.

That should cover it.

Nice to hear it admitted instead of just pointing out that it worked twice. 01-ncaabbs

Problems are two fold. We don't adjust or switch things up...and the guys pulling the trigger have flat out missed a few. I can handle the second part as long as we aren't getting five second calls or struggling to in bound the ball. I can even handle the first as long as we don't turn the ball over.
02-17-2013 12:49 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #102
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
Agree.
02-17-2013 12:55 PM
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gobaseline Offline
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Post: #103
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-17-2013 12:38 PM)Scoop Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 12:18 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 11:32 AM)Broncoboogie Wrote:  When DP comes back would still love to see Conner in there. Take Pokes place?

Thinking the same thing.

But that is a two edged sword.

It doesnt solve the problem of not playing Perry, Klien or Avery.

Poke would sit but would still likely play 20+.

Misguided notion as the season is playing out.

By the way, I love the intangibles Poke brings. He also can shoot the ball, but his skill set is very limited. Playing the season out is bearing that out.
The sad truth is that he will be gone next year and Taylor's growth will have been stunted. What he will be learning next year should have been learned this year.

I hear ya. But look at Whittington this year. He didn't play big minutes last year and he's doing a great job this year. Those guys will be fine. Klein and Perry have seen the floor enough to be prepared for next year, IMO.

How long has Shayne labored in this program?

Klien, Perry and AJ?

But using your thought process, we can expect Taylor and Jared to shine their 4th year in the program. I can't wait.
02-17-2013 01:26 PM
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gobaseline Offline
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Post: #104
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-17-2013 12:47 PM)ESSSS Wrote:  
Quote:It's the process that counts. Trending up or down?

That's part of it.

More importantly, if Hawk means what he says then it's excution and effort that count.

Maximizing or realizing a player's potential, and a team's potential.

To Acer's point:

If the team is doing poorly in a given area, it isn't out of line to point it out, and hope for/expect improvment.

Bob Knight used to say that he "coached against the game".

Larry Brown calls it "playing the right way".

They both are saying the same thing.

If you buy into this philosophy, whether the team has 16 or 6 wins is irrelevant.

We agree. Process is not only the course of the season but any game or segment of a particular game. Are you playing the right way? Are you doing things as schooled in any given game or aspect of it?
02-17-2013 01:28 PM
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Scoop Offline
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Post: #105
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-17-2013 01:26 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 12:38 PM)Scoop Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 12:18 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 11:32 AM)Broncoboogie Wrote:  When DP comes back would still love to see Conner in there. Take Pokes place?

Thinking the same thing.

But that is a two edged sword.

It doesnt solve the problem of not playing Perry, Klien or Avery.

Poke would sit but would still likely play 20+.

Misguided notion as the season is playing out.

By the way, I love the intangibles Poke brings. He also can shoot the ball, but his skill set is very limited. Playing the season out is bearing that out.
The sad truth is that he will be gone next year and Taylor's growth will have been stunted. What he will be learning next year should have been learned this year.

I hear ya. But look at Whittington this year. He didn't play big minutes last year and he's doing a great job this year. Those guys will be fine. Klein and Perry have seen the floor enough to be prepared for next year, IMO.

How long has Shayne labored in this program?

Klien, Perry and AJ?

But using your thought process, we can expect Taylor and Jared to shine their 4th year in the program. I can't wait.

Not sure they will ever "shine". And I truly mean that with no disrespect. I think they will be nice complimentary players over their 4 years. I think if the coaching staff saw them as being more, they would play them the minutes they continue to give the other freshmen.
02-17-2013 01:33 PM
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gobaseline Offline
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Post: #106
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-17-2013 01:33 PM)Scoop Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 01:26 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 12:38 PM)Scoop Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 12:18 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  
(02-17-2013 11:32 AM)Broncoboogie Wrote:  When DP comes back would still love to see Conner in there. Take Pokes place?

Thinking the same thing.

But that is a two edged sword.

It doesnt solve the problem of not playing Perry, Klien or Avery.

Poke would sit but would still likely play 20+.

Misguided notion as the season is playing out.

By the way, I love the intangibles Poke brings. He also can shoot the ball, but his skill set is very limited. Playing the season out is bearing that out.
The sad truth is that he will be gone next year and Taylor's growth will have been stunted. What he will be learning next year should have been learned this year.

I hear ya. But look at Whittington this year. He didn't play big minutes last year and he's doing a great job this year. Those guys will be fine. Klein and Perry have seen the floor enough to be prepared for next year, IMO.

How long has Shayne labored in this program?

Klien, Perry and AJ?

But using your thought process, we can expect Taylor and Jared to shine their 4th year in the program. I can't wait.

Not sure they will ever "shine". And I truly mean that with no disrespect. I think they will be nice complimentary players over their 4 years. I think if the coaching staff saw them as being more, they would play them the minutes they continue to give the other freshmen.

I'm not nor ever have compared them to the other freshman.

I have and continue to compare them that are given minutes instead of them.

Quite simple and I humbly submit, correct.
02-17-2013 02:37 PM
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broncojohnny Offline
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Post: #107
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
A couple things about last night; D. Brown had three fouls early in 2nd. half and road the pines until his crazy play in the last 4:01.
DP tweaked his knee in practice this week and was iffy for last nights game. He was in the game to manage the high post because he can see over the defense. I was told this by as semi realiable source.
I don't care who we played last night, our team takes on an entirely different look with those two being out of the lineup.
I would still love to see a point who can dribble penetrate and kick-out or shoot. This was painfully obvious watching us run that merry-go-round weave with -0- penetration. Does it matter whose running the point?? As they say in football, we lack team speed. It is what it is. I love the kids on this team, but ya can't teach SPEED.
Hell, I agree with Acer. My crystal ball in October saw ten wins on the horizen. We have far exceeded that...Go Bronc's
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2013 03:32 PM by broncojohnny.)
02-17-2013 03:32 PM
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BrianPersky Offline
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Post: #108
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-17-2013 03:32 PM)broncojohnny Wrote:  He was in the game to manage the high post because he can see over the defense. I was told this by as semi reliable source.

Exactly what Hawkins said in post-game.
02-17-2013 03:43 PM
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bostonbronco Offline
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Post: #109
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
Announcers said that Hawk concentrated on fundamentals after the two losses such as foul shooting.

The foul shooting certainly improved. Also, saw some sweet passes by the Broncos... as well as a few lapses.
02-17-2013 05:33 PM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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Post: #110
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
With 2:55 I thought the game was over. Down 6?

I'm thinking, we need to score 2 baskets to 1 each minute remaining. That would be 9 possessions, only 20 seconds per possession.

And, I'm thinking, teams are scoring about even, so that is not going to happen that we outscore them 2 to 1 baskets over 9 possessions, even assuming a score every time down the court.

So, I'm thinking, we lose.

What actually happens is DB gets a three followed by a steal and a crazy good layup, followed by a NIU turnover on the inbounds, followed by a Ritchie 3, followed by fouling where we get 4 straight makes. Counting Tava's bucket prior to 2:55, a 14-0 run?

So in the three minutes, we did actually score the 12 I thought we needed, NIU scored 0.

Projection wise or Ken Pom wise, we had no shot to win.

Somebody forgot to tell the kids.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2013 05:45 PM by Dirty Ernie.)
02-17-2013 05:44 PM
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thegeneral Offline
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Post: #111
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
Since you didn't ask:

[Image: wmu_niu.png]

WMU had a 20% chance of winning down 6 with 3 to go.
02-17-2013 06:23 PM
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BrianPersky Offline
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Post: #112
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
Wow. Unreal.

Love these charts. Thanks for sharing.
02-17-2013 06:26 PM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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Post: #113
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
Thanks, General.

I'm actually a quantitative guy, so I find this stuff fascinating.

The beauty of sports is the human element, it can be analyzed but sometimes a guy just goes off, your calculation is defeated but the outcome is still a thing of beauty.

Or, the other way to think about it is the 20% is very real.
02-17-2013 06:50 PM
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Hiller4Hyz09 Offline
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Post: #114
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-17-2013 05:44 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  With 2:55 I thought the game was over. Down 6?

I'm thinking, we need to score 2 baskets to 1 each minute remaining. That would be 9 possessions, only 20 seconds per possession.

And, I'm thinking, teams are scoring about even, so that is not going to happen that we outscore them 2 to 1 baskets over 9 possessions, even assuming a score every time down the court.

So, I'm thinking, we lose.

What actually happens is DB gets a three followed by a steal and a crazy good layup, followed by a NIU turnover on the inbounds, followed by a Ritchie 3, followed by fouling where we get 4 straight makes. Counting Tava's bucket prior to 2:55, a 14-0 run?

So in the three minutes, we did actually score the 12 I thought we needed, NIU scored 0.

Projection wise or Ken Pom wise, we had no shot to win.

Somebody forgot to tell the kids.

I actually walked away from the computer for a few minutes when we were down 8. You're welcome!
02-17-2013 07:20 PM
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Scoop Offline
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Post: #115
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-17-2013 05:44 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  With 2:55 I thought the game was over. Down 6?

I'm thinking, we need to score 2 baskets to 1 each minute remaining. That would be 9 possessions, only 20 seconds per possession.

And, I'm thinking, teams are scoring about even, so that is not going to happen that we outscore them 2 to 1 baskets over 9 possessions, even assuming a score every time down the court.

So, I'm thinking, we lose.

What actually happens is DB gets a three followed by a steal and a crazy good layup, followed by a NIU turnover on the inbounds, followed by a Ritchie 3, followed by fouling where we get 4 straight makes. Counting Tava's bucket prior to 2:55, a 14-0 run?

So in the three minutes, we did actually score the 12 I thought we needed, NIU scored 0.

Projection wise or Ken Pom wise, we had no shot to win.

Somebody forgot to tell the kids.

That's awesome! I turned the game off at the 4:00 minute mark and followed it on my phone in disbelief.
02-17-2013 09:43 PM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #116
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
All wins are good...even the ugly and terrifying ones.

NIU outplayed us for 38 minutes. Not by a blow out margin...but enough to make everyone squirm in their seat.

We did come out with more intensity in the second half. Our defense was notably better. The problem was our outside shooters were fairly cold. Brown and Poke were 1/11 from deep until Brown hit that 3 at the end.

Hutch played great defense on Nader. He held the guy to 0/9 from the field. And it's not like those shots were open. Every single one of them was contested.

Only 9 turnovers is a step in the right direction.

23/29 from the charity stripe is also good.

Finishing the game on a 16-0 run is great as well.

A lot of people I talked to questioned Hawk's decision to put Paul in the game with 7 minutes to go. When it was happening, I admit, I thought that it was a horrible idea. Now that I've heard the reasoning behind the move, I understand it much more. And, it worked out in our favor. Paul made the pass to Richie for the go ahead 3 pointer...and I do not believe he injured himself any further. One thing is certain, what we were doing against their zone wasn't all that effective. We had one sequence that I thought was good and we ended up with a layup. (I don't understand why college coaches don't go in and out of a zone more often. Switching up your defense can be very bothersome).

We can talk about the lack of minutes and opportunities for Klein, Perry, and Avery all we want. They have done nothing during the games to warrant less playing time. However, unless anyone sits in on practice every day, we do not know how they are performing. Do I personally think that they should be getting more minutes. Yes. But I've never coached the game or evaluated WMU practices. In short, my opinion doesn't matter.

To keep it in perspective...when we started this season, I really thought the absolute ceiling for out team was 15 wins. We've exceeded that with 5 games yet to go. I'm not satisfied at this point, but I am trying to keep things in perspective. As the season evolved, my expectations have grown. We have the talent to win the West outright. If we beat Toledo and end up in a tie with them...I can live with that considering we went 2-0 against them. That's a big if right now.

We have 9 days until we play at Toledo. Huge game on the horizon after the Pacific game.

This team needs to be rolling by the time Cleveland comes around. Finishing the regular season with two home games will help...but showing up at Toledo and EMU will go a long ways in preparing us.
02-18-2013 09:45 AM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #117
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
Just an observation, if you watch the first half of the game...NIU did two things really really well.

1. They attacked the basket on almost every possession. They drove into the lane multiple times. Our guards are not very good at stopping penetration.

2. They hit 4 three pointers against what I would consider good defense. All four of those shots had a hand in their face. They just hit them. The fifth one they hit in the first half was off a screen or two.


They exposed our greatest weakness on defense AND hit some very tough shots. I choose to tip our hat to NIU.
02-18-2013 12:52 PM
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flushtheherd Offline
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Post: #118
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
I would have to agree that NIU came out storming in this game. They were un-stoppable on offense it seemed in the first half. Driving the lane and getting contact and drawing fouls, or draining contested three's at the end of the shot clock... IF they would have been able to hit their FT's in the first half this game may have been lost...

Still... WMU weathered the storm. Never really lost their composure or cool and held on until the storm passed and they made some clutch shots and plays down the stretch. I think this might actually be a better win than anyone is giving credit for... EA is correct... NIU played a heck of a first half to make it interesting... er uncomfortable....
02-18-2013 01:44 PM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #119
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
(02-18-2013 01:44 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I would have to agree that NIU came out storming in this game. They were un-stoppable on offense it seemed in the first half. Driving the lane and getting contact and drawing fouls, or draining contested three's at the end of the shot clock... IF they would have been able to hit their FT's in the first half this game may have been lost...

Still... WMU weathered the storm. Never really lost their composure or cool and held on until the storm passed and they made some clutch shots and plays down the stretch. I think this might actually be a better win than anyone is giving credit for... EA is correct... NIU played a heck of a first half to make it interesting... er uncomfortable....

To be clear...we definitely could have played better on offense. But after rewatching the entire first half, and most of the second half, I can't fault our defense. They attacked our weakness and hit tough shots. That's going to happen from time to time.
02-18-2013 02:01 PM
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Post: #120
RE: The Official Broncos VS NIU gamethread!
The biggest difference in the game in my opinion was the play of NIU's Bolin. He was simply unstoppable in the first half scoring all of his 10 points by the break. Our ability to shut him off from the inside (off of drives) and the outside (he was 2 for 3 from outside the arc) was a huge factor in the outcome. He was non existent in the second half. He was their leading scorer with 10 points.

EA3 is also correct on the defensive job by Hutchinson against Nader, that he was frustrated when his team needed him the most, in the last three minutes of the game. He could hardly hit the rim by that time.

Always proud to ber a Bronco.
02-19-2013 08:57 AM
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