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Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
Schools may claim the NY market but NYC is a pro sports town. Philly and Chicago are in the same category. They are die hard fans of their pro teams. They do watch college sports but I don't think they have any loyalty to any particular school.

Although the B10 would be more money, I think both RU and Uconn would choose the ACC. The location and history suits them better.

The B10 doesn't seem intent on expanding. If they wanted to play politics they could make a move for RU and/or Uconn. That would put the ACC on the hot seat. I think they would take Uconn and RU rather than let the B10 get any further east. That would cut off one of ND safety valves (the ACC). However, I think the B10 still has a bruised ego from the 1999 incident.
12-29-2011 11:17 AM
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OrangeCrush22 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-29-2011 10:32 AM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  Of the top 61 NJ football recruits RU has landed 8. Some still haven’t decided but at this point that’s barely 13%. http://247sports.com/Recruit/State-Ranki...ootball/NJ I’m not haten on Rutgers it just is what it is, the facts are the facts.

He's saying that with Rutgers in the conference, it's easier for other schools to recruit NJ. Besides Fuller is still looking at them.
12-29-2011 11:28 AM
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tj_2009 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-29-2011 11:28 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(12-29-2011 10:32 AM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  Of the top 61 NJ football recruits RU has landed 8. Some still haven’t decided but at this point that’s barely 13%. http://247sports.com/Recruit/State-Ranki...ootball/NJ I’m not haten on Rutgers it just is what it is, the facts are the facts.

He's saying that with Rutgers in the conference, it's easier for other schools to recruit NJ. Besides Fuller is still looking at them.

Yes, that is what I was alluding to. Other ACC schools will become more successful in recruiting New Jersey because they know that the kids would be able to play in front of their family and friends at least a game a year and close by for several games (Syracuse, Maryland, BC, Virginia).
New Jersey would be a good TV market. There are around 9 million people in the state and as far as I know TV networks are still looking for markets.
Connecticut is a much smaller market but fairly affluent as well as having a good basketball team so I would take them after Rutgers.

I think the timing is not right for Notre Dame to join a conference. At some point it may be right for them but I suspect they are happy right now being an independant. I doubt they will join a conference unless they are forced (i.e.- excluded from the BCS for example).
That's fine because they can join the ACC when they are ready. They could be the 17th team.
12-29-2011 12:33 PM
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tj_2009 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-29-2011 11:17 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  Schools may claim the NY market but NYC is a pro sports town. Philly and Chicago are in the same category. They are die hard fans of their pro teams. They do watch college sports but I don't think they have any loyalty to any particular school.

Although the B10 would be more money, I think both RU and Uconn would choose the ACC. The location and history suits them better.

The B10 doesn't seem intent on expanding. If they wanted to play politics they could make a move for RU and/or Uconn. That would put the ACC on the hot seat. I think they would take Uconn and RU rather than let the B10 get any further east. That would cut off one of ND safety valves (the ACC). However, I think the B10 still has a bruised ego from the 1999 incident.

This is another reason why the ACC should stop dithering and take Rutgers and UConn, to prevent the B1G from getting any further east. Both schools are strong academically.
I do not see the downside with adding both of these schools.
Rutgers is a huge school, there is a large population in New Jersey,
and also a relatively affluent state as well.
Connecticut is a small state, but has good basketball teams. They are also home to ESPN, so that would allow teams visiting UConn to get more exposure on radio and TV.
12-29-2011 12:40 PM
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NYCTUFan Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-29-2011 11:28 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(12-29-2011 10:32 AM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  Of the top 61 NJ football recruits RU has landed 8. Some still haven’t decided but at this point that’s barely 13%. http://247sports.com/Recruit/State-Ranki...ootball/NJ I’m not haten on Rutgers it just is what it is, the facts are the facts.

He's saying that with Rutgers in the conference, it's easier for other schools to recruit NJ. Besides Fuller is still looking at them.

That’s my point as well, it’s just you don’t need to be in the ACC to recruit successfully in NJ, everyone does. Of the committed recruits on that list 1/3 of them are already committed to ACC schools. Syracuse has 1, UNC has 2, BC has 4, UVA has 2, MD has 1, and FSU has 1. Temple has even come into Rutgers back yard and already has 5 players committed. My point on Rutgers is simply this, they are looked at by so many people as this gem out there, and with a mediocre football and well below average basketball program, no major TV market to speak of, and the inability to keep the top NJ athletes in state, I don’t see what they bring to the table that is so great. Take a look at the Rutgers message board on here, it’s a dead board as pointed out buy its supporters.
12-29-2011 12:47 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
I think we all realize that the ACC isn't expanding without a Notre Dame type school being #15.

And whoever that King type program is, they will have a great deal of input as to who #16 will be.

But realistically the Rutgers vs Connecticut argument comes down to this - in terms of academics UConn and RU are basically a wash. So it really comes down to which institution has the better overall athletics and that is UConn - by a mile. It's not even close.

As for who I want as #15 and #16 - here's how I would rank them:

ND, PSU
ND, Texas
PSU, Texas
ND, WVU
PSU, WVU
ND, UConn

Now, only one of the above has any shot of ever happening and even that pairing is probably 5-10 years away at minimum.

Cheers,
Neil
12-29-2011 06:57 PM
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ndlutz Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
Sorry if this has been posted already - I believe I read through the entire thread a while ago.

My answer is nobody. I think it's a good idea to let this league get aquainted and click before adding anybody else. I also realize that in order to expand sometimes things have to happen rapidly. I just believe that it's too early to add anyone else.

In the future of course ND is going to be the number one option for the ACC and Big Ten. I think that I would prefer a league without ND, though, because I just think they are going to be very demanding when they do settle in. I like UConn and Rutgers as potential new members but I don't necessarily love them. Penn State is a no no to me but I think that is probably selfish on my part. Either way, that will never happen because the Big Ten owns their television rights whether they play in the conference or not I believe. They'd also be stupid to leave.
12-29-2011 07:18 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-29-2011 06:57 PM)omniorange Wrote:  I think we all realize that the ACC isn't expanding without a Notre Dame type school being #15.

And whoever that King type program is, they will have a great deal of input as to who #16 will be.

But realistically the Rutgers vs Connecticut argument comes down to this - in terms of academics UConn and RU are basically a wash. So it really comes down to which institution has the better overall athletics and that is UConn - by a mile. It's not even close.

As for who I want as #15 and #16 - here's how I would rank them:

ND, PSU
ND, Texas
PSU, Texas
ND, WVU
PSU, WVU
ND, UConn

Now, only one of the above has any shot of ever happening and even that pairing is probably 5-10 years away at minimum.

Cheers,
Neil
If Texas joins the ACC I will never watch another ACC game. I'd watch the 5th quarter at the local middle school first.
12-29-2011 07:20 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-27-2011 04:11 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  No thanks. We do not need to add a team that not only can't win the MAC, but can't beat a MAC team with a winning record.

LOL @ the Clemson fan acting like they're Alabama...
12-29-2011 07:41 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-27-2011 11:05 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  There's no rush for the ACC to go to 16 teams. If may be more than a decade before we expand again.

I agree that Notre Dame and Penn State are the top targets. They're worth waiting for unless something big changes and the ACC needs to expand again.

I'm not concerned about what the Big XII does. The ACC will always be a more attractive option to West Virginia, Rutgers and UConn than the Big XII is.

I don't think Temple will ever be invited to join the ACC. There are simply more attractive options in the Northeast.

Just to throw out a name I've not seen mentioned. Tulane. Very good private school in New Orleans, one of the South's largest media markets. They're building a new football stadium and were members of both SEC and the old Southern Conference. They have a recruiting ground similiar to Miami's if they had the BCS tag to help them recruit. Might take the ACC going to 20 teams before they're included but who would have thought 16 team conferences were realistic 20 years ago?

LOL @ Tulane being a 'more attractive option' than Temple. Not even close.
12-29-2011 07:43 PM
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WakeForestRanger Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
Never said that Tulane was a more attractive option than Temple. I said there were more attractive options in the Northeast than Temple.

Tulane was just a name in another region thrown out for discussion.
12-29-2011 09:26 PM
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NYCTUFan Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-29-2011 09:26 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Never said that Tulane was a more attractive option than Temple. I said there were more attractive options in the Northeast than Temple.

Tulane was just a name in another region thrown out for discussion.
Take the academic portion of it out of the picture, only because I understand the point, but don’t understand the criteria for what is the acceptable level of academics for an ACC school. (I don’t disagree or agree, I just don’t understand what the measuring stick is). Looking at possible candidates for expansion the question should be do you want a program that’s established, it is what it is, very little upside potential like a Rutgers, or do you want a program that’s on the rise with upside potential, like a Temple? TU brings the 4th largest media market in the US, a new market for the ACC, a proven basketball brand (6th in all time NCAA wins), and a football program that’s experiencing a rebirth and its steadily on the rise. It’s all matter of opinion, and when it’s said that “more desirable Northeast teams are out there” I assume you mean the established programs, the Rutgers and UConn. My point is simply if you think outside the safty of the known commodity box, and want to give an up and coming program a shot to make a national splash in your conference, I think Temple brings the most upside for both basketball and football, as well as a good fit geographically. Again, all of the above is with the academics put aside. Now, on the topic of ND being added? ND trumps ALL programs, if there is an outside chance at ND, they are ALWAYS far and away the first choice.
12-30-2011 11:05 AM
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catdaddy_2402 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-30-2011 11:05 AM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  Looking at possible candidates for expansion the question should be do you want a program that’s established, it is what it is, very little upside potential like a Rutgers, or do you want a program that’s on the rise with upside potential, like a Temple? TU brings the 4th largest media market in the US, a new market for the ACC, a proven basketball brand (6th in all time NCAA wins), and a football program that’s experiencing a rebirth and its steadily on the rise.
It’s all matter of opinion, and when it’s said that “more desirable Northeast teams are out there” I assume you mean the established programs, the Rutgers and UConn. My point is simply if you think outside the safty of the known commodity box, and want to give an up and coming program a shot to make a national splash in your conference, I think Temple brings the most upside for both basketball and football, as well as a good fit geographically.

The only two things that aren't your opinion are the fact that you are in the #4 market and 6th in all-time basketball wins.

Sure your football program is no longer a doormat, but you have not only failed to win the MAC, you have never beat a MAC team with a winning record. Huge step up from the MAC to the ACC, just like it's a huge step up from the A10 to the ACC in hoops.

Temple has already proven they are capable of wasting BCS AQ level money during their time in the Big East. Is Temple's limited success in the MAC a product of them learning their lesson or is it a case of them being surrounded by programs they are more capable of competing with? IMO it's a mix of both.
12-30-2011 12:43 PM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
the only way Temple ends up in ACC
ACC goes to 16 and signs huge TV contract,
B-10 & SEC come calling
ACC will look to keep contract & back fill
it will still depend on who & how many
12-30-2011 03:30 PM
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NYCTUFan Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-30-2011 12:43 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  
(12-30-2011 11:05 AM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  Looking at possible candidates for expansion the question should be do you want a program that’s established, it is what it is, very little upside potential like a Rutgers, or do you want a program that’s on the rise with upside potential, like a Temple? TU brings the 4th largest media market in the US, a new market for the ACC, a proven basketball brand (6th in all time NCAA wins), and a football program that’s experiencing a rebirth and its steadily on the rise.
It’s all matter of opinion, and when it’s said that “more desirable Northeast teams are out there” I assume you mean the established programs, the Rutgers and UConn. My point is simply if you think outside the safty of the known commodity box, and want to give an up and coming program a shot to make a national splash in your conference, I think Temple brings the most upside for both basketball and football, as well as a good fit geographically.

The only two things that aren't your opinion are the fact that you are in the #4 market and 6th in all-time basketball wins.

Sure your football program is no longer a doormat, but you have not only failed to win the MAC, you have never beat a MAC team with a winning record. Huge step up from the MAC to the ACC, just like it's a huge step up from the A10 to the ACC in hoops.

Temple has already proven they are capable of wasting BCS AQ level money during their time in the Big East. Is Temple's limited success in the MAC a product of them learning their lesson or is it a case of them being surrounded by programs they are more capable of competing with? IMO it's a mix of both.

There is no doubt that the old Temple football program was a joke, on all fronts. From playing home games at Veterans Stadium, to the coaching staffs, their performance on the field and their attendance right down to the administrations lack of commitment to the program. That being said I don’t feel it’s fair to hold the programs history over its head when contemplating its future. There are facts to support the program is on the rise. Playing home games at the Linc, attendance steadily on the rise year over year each year, 2 bowl games in 4 years, winning one of those games, the $9,000,000 committed to the upgrade of the practice facilities, and the hiring of a good solid coaching staff with SEC roots, those are all facts. Do I wish they had a MAC championship under their belt, sure, but they don’t. To the established programs and their fans that may not seem like much, but after the 1 – 11 season of 2006 I think if you asked any college football fan, including Temple fans, if in 5 seasons they would have achieved all that’s listed above, including a record of 26 – 12 over the last 3 seasons, they would have said no way.

I have no delusions of Temple ever being admitted into the ACC, don’t get me wrong, I would love to see it, I just know it’s not happening, it’s just what’s the next step? It’s either a major conference or the MAC and A-10, there is nothing in between. Facts about TU basketball, 3 A-10 titles in the last 4 years, 3 in a row, 4 NCAA tournament appearances in a row. Now I know that wont knock anyone off the chair but if not the ACC or Big East what’s next for a program like Temple? The crumbling C-USA? That’s a huge step down for basketball, and with the loss of the teams to the Big East it’s a lateral move in football.

Let me ask the question, with the exception of the established programs discussed like Rutgers, Penn State, ND, UConn, which up and coming programs, not already in a power conference, bring more potential to the table then Temple? I don’t just mean on field potential, but I also mean potential when it comes to building a product the networks are willing to pay the conference top dollar for, teams with strong TV markets. Also, if there are no steps in between conferences like the MAC, A-10, and the ACC and Big East, how does a school like Temple make the jump to a major conference?
12-30-2011 04:18 PM
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texasorange Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-30-2011 04:18 PM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  
(12-30-2011 12:43 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  
(12-30-2011 11:05 AM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  Looking at possible candidates for expansion the question should be do you want a program that’s established, it is what it is, very little upside potential like a Rutgers, or do you want a program that’s on the rise with upside potential, like a Temple? TU brings the 4th largest media market in the US, a new market for the ACC, a proven basketball brand (6th in all time NCAA wins), and a football program that’s experiencing a rebirth and its steadily on the rise.
It’s all matter of opinion, and when it’s said that “more desirable Northeast teams are out there” I assume you mean the established programs, the Rutgers and UConn. My point is simply if you think outside the safty of the known commodity box, and want to give an up and coming program a shot to make a national splash in your conference, I think Temple brings the most upside for both basketball and football, as well as a good fit geographically.

The only two things that aren't your opinion are the fact that you are in the #4 market and 6th in all-time basketball wins.

Sure your football program is no longer a doormat, but you have not only failed to win the MAC, you have never beat a MAC team with a winning record. Huge step up from the MAC to the ACC, just like it's a huge step up from the A10 to the ACC in hoops.

Temple has already proven they are capable of wasting BCS AQ level money during their time in the Big East. Is Temple's limited success in the MAC a product of them learning their lesson or is it a case of them being surrounded by programs they are more capable of competing with? IMO it's a mix of both.

There is no doubt that the old Temple football program was a joke, on all fronts. From playing home games at Veterans Stadium, to the coaching staffs, their performance on the field and their attendance right down to the administrations lack of commitment to the program. That being said I don’t feel it’s fair to hold the programs history over its head when contemplating its future. There are facts to support the program is on the rise. Playing home games at the Linc, attendance steadily on the rise year over year each year, 2 bowl games in 4 years, winning one of those games, the $9,000,000 committed to the upgrade of the practice facilities, and the hiring of a good solid coaching staff with SEC roots, those are all facts. Do I wish they had a MAC championship under their belt, sure, but they don’t. To the established programs and their fans that may not seem like much, but after the 1 – 11 season of 2006 I think if you asked any college football fan, including Temple fans, if in 5 seasons they would have achieved all that’s listed above, including a record of 26 – 12 over the last 3 seasons, they would have said no way.

I have no delusions of Temple ever being admitted into the ACC, don’t get me wrong, I would love to see it, I just know it’s not happening, it’s just what’s the next step? It’s either a major conference or the MAC and A-10, there is nothing in between. Facts about TU basketball, 3 A-10 titles in the last 4 years, 3 in a row, 4 NCAA tournament appearances in a row. Now I know that wont knock anyone off the chair but if not the ACC or Big East what’s next for a program like Temple? The crumbling C-USA? That’s a huge step down for basketball, and with the loss of the teams to the Big East it’s a lateral move in football.

Let me ask the question, with the exception of the established programs discussed like Rutgers, Penn State, ND, UConn, which up and coming programs, not already in a power conference, bring more potential to the table then Temple? I don’t just mean on field potential, but I also mean potential when it comes to building a product the networks are willing to pay the conference top dollar for, teams with strong TV markets. Also, if there are no steps in between conferences like the MAC, A-10, and the ACC and Big East, how does a school like Temple make the jump to a major conference?

Maybe they don't. Sometimes opportunity knocks once then the door slams shut.
12-30-2011 06:09 PM
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NYCTUFan Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
Let me ask the question, with the exception of the established programs discussed like Rutgers, Penn State, ND, UConn, which up and coming programs, not already in a power conference, bring more potential to the table then Temple? I don’t just mean on field potential, but I also mean potential when it comes to building a product the networks are willing to pay the conference top dollar for, teams with strong TV markets. Also, if there are no steps in between conferences like the MAC, A-10, and the ACC and Big East, how does a school like Temple make the jump to a major conference?


[/quote]

Maybe they don't. Sometimes opportunity knocks once then the door slams shut.
[/quote]

Well, where your team resides in the big money business of college football should be a concern of everyone’s. The “Superconfrence” idea has been getting some traction lately, and if it happens (which many think its only a matter of when, and not if) it will leave many teams, some in the ACC included according to the link below, scrambling for football life jackets.

So, before you all start blasting me with hate messages, this isn’t my idea, see the article from rivals.com.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/bl...aaf-235200

Here’s a quote from the above for the ACC fans, like I said, I’m only the messenger. “In Goodman's scenario, the SEC's blockbuster retaliation also includes an Eastern Front to rip Florida State and Miami from the ACC; other projections have imagined Florida State and Clemson instead, Miami being a relatively small private school with a relatively tepid fan base by SEC standards. In either case, the departure of two of its cornerstone football programs would threaten to relegate the ACC to a kind of second-class, limbo status that it occupied for much of its history (and that the Big East occupies now), a nominally "major" conference that no one really regards as one. In fact, plenty of people will argue the ACC is already a second-class league, and a major hit on the order of Florida State and/or Clemson/Miami could knock it that much further down the pecking order.”

You may want to be careful not to be too quick with that “door slam shut” attitude, some pretty comfortable bottom dwelling football teams in some major conferences may end up right next to Temple making their case as to why they belong.
12-30-2011 06:53 PM
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texasorange Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
Why is it that everytime a post is made on the ACC board, by a member (or soon to be member) of the ACC, directed to fans and alumn of schools in the ACC, concerning ACC expansion gets highjacked by a Temple fan?
12-30-2011 07:05 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
(12-30-2011 07:05 PM)texasorange Wrote:  Why is it that everytime a post is made on the ACC board, by a member (or soon to be member) of the ACC, directed to fans and alumn of schools in the ACC, concerning ACC expansion gets highjacked by a Temple fan?

Kinda reminds me of old BE threads being hijacked by a ECU, Memphis, or a SMU fan.
12-30-2011 07:35 PM
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WakeForestRanger Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Whom Do We Want for 15 and 16?
If the SEC could take an ACC team then they would have instead of taking Missouri and talking to West Virginia.
12-30-2011 07:44 PM
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