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Four Team Addition to SEC ??
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ManzanoWolf Offline
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Four Team Addition to SEC ??
A&M sources close to the situation tell Orangebloods.com the Aggies expect to be announced as members of the SEC within the next three weeks.

Those same sources said the SEC has indicated that the league will expand by four schools to 16.

"It's not just an expansion planned to add one or two schools. The plan is to expand to 16 schools," one source locked into the A&M situation said Monday afternoon.

"Those plans have not changed."

Sources tell Orangebloods.com NCAA president Mark Emmert is expressing concern to SEC leaders about any plans to expand for fear of the instability it could cause in conferences across the country.

A message left with the NCAA for comment from Emmert was not immediately returned.


http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1252192
08-15-2011 05:46 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
Be very careful about what information you take from the Texas Rivals site. That guy has a history of exaggerating things into UT's favor
08-15-2011 06:33 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
With it being public knowledge that the SEC is pondering expansion, and possibly before the upcoming season begins, I wonder how many secret inquiries and back alley meetings are going on between the SEC commish, presidents and ADs with interested schools presidents and ADs...
08-15-2011 07:23 PM
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ManzanoWolf Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
My guess is that text messages, cell phone calls, and pleas for mercy in back room dealings are rampant these days . . it is not over and I do not think the B10 and PAC12 are sitting by idly observing the scene . . lol
08-15-2011 07:45 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
(08-15-2011 07:45 PM)ManzanoWolf Wrote:  My guess is that text messages, cell phone calls, and pleas for mercy in back room dealings are rampant these days . . it is not over and I do not think the B10 and PAC12 are sitting by idly observing the scene . . lol

Yeah, I think in three years at least one of the Big East and Big XII will be gone, wouldn't be shocked if they both are.
08-15-2011 08:12 PM
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RaiderATO Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
Wonder if Massaro has given Slive a ring. . . 03-wink
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2011 09:18 PM by RaiderATO.)
08-15-2011 09:18 PM
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BlueRaiderFan. Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
I doubt the any of the AQ conferences go anywhere. Most likely they take teams from the "lower" non aq's and fill slots. In the end, the non aq's will be relegated to basically a different division and almost no interaction with the AQ's, which is the way they want it. I think this ends up in court unless the AQ's keep the +1 bowl game and the payments up. Some states will most likely force their AQ schools to play the non aq's though not all. The ship has sailed on outright exclusion of the non aq's by the elite AQ's. They can slow it way down though. Most likely we only see aq's against non aq's on a much more rare occasion, such as lower tier bowl games.
08-16-2011 12:23 AM
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JoeJag Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
(08-15-2011 07:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  With it being public knowledge that the SEC is pondering expansion, and possibly before the upcoming season begins, I wonder how many secret inquiries and back alley meetings are going on between the SEC commish, presidents and ADs with interested schools presidents and ADs...

I would not be surprised if something wasn't announced before the season starts concerning the backroom deals that are going on even as we post this stuff.
08-16-2011 10:28 AM
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panama Online
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
(08-16-2011 12:23 AM)BlueRaiderFan. Wrote:  I doubt the any of the AQ conferences go anywhere. Most likely they take teams from the "lower" non aq's and fill slots. In the end, the non aq's will be relegated to basically a different division and almost no interaction with the AQ's, which is the way they want it. I think this ends up in court unless the AQ's keep the +1 bowl game and the payments up. Some states will most likely force their AQ schools to play the non aq's though not all. The ship has sailed on outright exclusion of the non aq's by the elite AQ's. They can slow it way down though. Most likely we only see aq's against non aq's on a much more rare occasion, such as lower tier bowl games.

THIS.
They arent goig to just voluntarily go out of business with all of that money on the table. You're going to have to come in with SWAR gear and shut me down. Until then, I am taking 3 or 4 to move to 12.
08-16-2011 10:56 AM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
(08-16-2011 12:23 AM)BlueRaiderFan. Wrote:  I doubt the any of the AQ conferences go anywhere. Most likely they take teams from the "lower" non aq's and fill slots. In the end, the non aq's will be relegated to basically a different division and almost no interaction with the AQ's, which is the way they want it. I think this ends up in court unless the AQ's keep the +1 bowl game and the payments up. Some states will most likely force their AQ schools to play the non aq's though not all. The ship has sailed on outright exclusion of the non aq's by the elite AQ's. They can slow it way down though. Most likely we only see aq's against non aq's on a much more rare occasion, such as lower tier bowl games.

1) If the move is to 14 or 16 team super conferences, at least one of the AQs is dead. The Big 12 and Big East are in the most danger of falling below the requirement of five programs who have played together for however many years(someone help me out) which would then require a waiver from the NCAA for them to even keep their charter as a NCAA conference.

TAMU and Missouri to the SEC

Texas to independence

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Kansas to the Pac 16

The Big XII is down to Baylor, Kansas State and Iowa State, even if the NCAA grants them a waiver to keep their charter, who are they going to fill with that would make them even remotely resemble an AQ conference?

After the ACC loses two programs to the SEC, the ACC will take at least two from the Big East, probably more, for the sake of keeping actual names in the discussion I'll say the ACC takes UCONN, WVU, USF, and Pitt. If the Big Ten decides to follow suit in expanding beyond 12, they'll take Rutgers and Syracuse and if they decide they're never going to sway Notre Dame into joining, they may go ahead and expand to 16, which would put the Big East in even more danger.

The Big East could literally end up down to TCU and Cincy.

Whoever is left between the two conferences could merge and pick up a few top non-AQs.

Would Baylor, TCU, Louisville, Kansas State, Iowa State, Cincy, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Air Force, Boise State, and BYU make an AQ conference? More than likely, though I'm not sure BYU would have any interest in that conference...

Either way, one of the two conferences is dead...

2) I'm still not convinced that the split of AQs and non-AQs is coming. I understand that it looks that way and I can certainly understand why many non-AQ fans are afraid of it happening, but I still don't buy it. Ultimately they need us around more than they'll ever admit, but they aren't the only one that can play hardball, if they try to shut us out of their club, we'll draw a line in the sand.
08-16-2011 09:09 PM
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WinstonTheWolf Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
(08-16-2011 09:09 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  2) I'm still not convinced that the split of AQs and non-AQs is coming. I understand that it looks that way and I can certainly understand why many non-AQ fans are afraid of it happening, but I still don't buy it. Ultimately they need us around more than they'll ever admit, but they aren't the only one that can play hardball, if they try to shut us out of their club, we'll draw a line in the sand.

I'm concerned. It seems like there is a history of the top division "culling" it down every once in a while.

I heard Memphis sports talk radio today imply that it would cost an extra 3K to 5K per scholly to pay the "true" cost of college attendance over and above what is being paid now - which translates to an extra 600K to 1 MM. According to the talker, this would be enough to get some programs to consider moving down.

Personally, I think the loss in revenue from moving down would be greater than the increased cost of staying up.

Who knows . . .
08-16-2011 09:17 PM
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BlueRaiderFan. Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
(08-16-2011 09:17 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  
(08-16-2011 09:09 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  2) I'm still not convinced that the split of AQs and non-AQs is coming. I understand that it looks that way and I can certainly understand why many non-AQ fans are afraid of it happening, but I still don't buy it. Ultimately they need us around more than they'll ever admit, but they aren't the only one that can play hardball, if they try to shut us out of their club, we'll draw a line in the sand.

I'm concerned. It seems like there is a history of the top division "culling" it down every once in a while.

I heard Memphis sports talk radio today imply that it would cost an extra 3K to 5K per scholly to pay the "true" cost of college attendance over and above what is being paid now - which translates to an extra 600K to 1 MM. According to the talker, this would be enough to get some programs to consider moving down.

Personally, I think the loss in revenue from moving down would be greater than the increased cost of staying up.

Who knows . . .

I know some state level senators that will have something to say about the AQ's not playing the in state Non AQ's...not in every state but in quite a few...not to mention if Congress gets involved.
08-16-2011 10:41 PM
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
(08-16-2011 09:17 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  I'm concerned. It seems like there is a history of the top division "culling" it down every once in a while.

I heard Memphis sports talk radio today imply that it would cost an extra 3K to 5K per scholly to pay the "true" cost of college attendance over and above what is being paid now - which translates to an extra 600K to 1 MM. According to the talker, this would be enough to get some programs to consider moving down.

Personally, I think the loss in revenue from moving down would be greater than the increased cost of staying up.

Who knows . . .

Though there is a history of "culling" you have to remember the I-A/I-AA split was based on a series of promises to the I-AA. They would have equal or greater access to post-season as I-A. The I-A could play up to four I-AA a season. There would be a TV deal for the I-AA that would get them some exposure though not as much as I-A. There would cost savings.

Since then bowl licensing was de-regulated and now there are far fewer post-season opportunities per school in FCS than in FBS.
The NCAA for a time ruled that no FCS/I-AA game could count toward bowl eligibility, then it became one in four years, then it became one per year.
The NCAA lost a lawsuit that got them out of the TV business.
The gap in scholarships has narrowed slightly.

Given that and the investment made, any cull will be litigated and odds favor those being booted. The Sun Belt could likely prove $9 million in damages annually just in reduced game guarantees and that would be trebled to $27 million per year. Start throwing in other financial losses and it would be one of the biggest anti-trust cases ever lost by the NCAA.

Could schools be priced out? That's more likely. If I were advising the Sun Belt, the first thing I'd do if the stipend rule were created and adopted is follow the Patriot League model and develop a league wide financial need assessment and base the amount of the stipend on financial need. Family is poor get 100% of the stipend. Family vacations in Fiji, get 0%. People in between get a percentage based on need. That could reduce your outlay by 20% to 50%.

Schools have to make choices all the time. There are a number of assistant coaches who make more than any Sun Belt, WAC, MAC, or CUSA head coach. Maybe the smart move is to figure out the best coach you can hire for $150,000 to $300,000 and not try to keep up. Maybe you look at indoor practice facilities and say, "We know we will miss a couple practices due to weather but the real purpose of building one is the fear that some kid will choose a school that has one rather than us and for that many million dollars, we are willing to lose that kid."

Schools have to make hard choices. Pacific was at the top level 44 years and went away. Wichita State spent 41 years at the top level of football and pulled the plug. Fullerton spent 17 years at the top level and dropped football.

Unless you and your conference mates are responsible in spending, you follow that path.

In the past few years we've seen Birmingham Southern and Centenary reclassify to Division III and UNO go to Division II.

Maryland is in a pickle right now. They've spent to keep up with the ACC and they've exhausted their financial reserves http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/a-c...ory_1.html

The whole business requires understanding your situation. You can spend loads of money because everyone else is building those or everyone else is paying that much or you can stick with what you can afford. Alabama generates $245 a minute and you expect to keep pace generating $38 a minute? You could nearly run every Sun Belt program just on what Texas generates in a year.

Schools are spending money to match what Alabama, Texas and Ohio State do but most of the spending has no return on it. Did Mack Brown become a better coach at $5 million per year than he was at $3 million? The $3 million Brown went to the BCS Championship. The $5 million one had a losing season.

The system can be explained simply. Mega School installs $4000 leather chairs with stitched team logo and built in chargers for iPhones in the locker room (not making this up, I sat in one in the Sporting KC locker room, they are SWEET). Coach of Big School hears about it and is immediately convinced that gives Mega School an advantage and he needs them to keep up (never mind that he loses most recruiting battles against Mega). Athletic Director thinks its silly and a waste of money, winning at Big is about getting and red-shirting the players Mega doesn't want but fellow conference member Large State does want. Most of the battles against Large State tend to come down to geography and how well the kid likes the assistant recruiting them. Coach at Big tells a couple boosters and soon the message boards are up in arms about how Mega has this advantage and will kill them in recruiting (which they already do). So now the AD sees that if the Coach doesn't win, the finger is going to point at him for failing to give Coach the tools to win. He cuts a check for $200,000 to get fifty of those chairs. Rinse and repeat. Because that is how budget decisions are being made.

Unless you have the courage to say we are who we are and live within your means, sooner or later you go broke and you go under. You might get a few good years out of it but eventually the system breaks. The other choice is to live within your means, take your lumps against those who are better off but you still get to play the game.
08-17-2011 10:29 AM
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chrisattsu Offline
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RE: Four Team Addition to SEC ??
(08-17-2011 10:29 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The system can be explained simply. Mega School installs $4000 leather chairs with stitched team logo and built in chargers for iPhones in the locker room (not making this up, I sat in one in the Sporting KC locker room, they are SWEET). Coach of Big School hears about it and is immediately convinced that gives Mega School an advantage and he needs them to keep up (never mind that he loses most recruiting battles against Mega). Athletic Director thinks its silly and a waste of money, winning at Big is about getting and red-shirting the players Mega doesn't want but fellow conference member Large State does want. Most of the battles against Large State tend to come down to geography and how well the kid likes the assistant recruiting them. Coach at Big tells a couple boosters and soon the message boards are up in arms about how Mega has this advantage and will kill them in recruiting (which they already do). So now the AD sees that if the Coach doesn't win, the finger is going to point at him for failing to give Coach the tools to win. He cuts a check for $200,000 to get fifty of those chairs. Rinse and repeat. Because that is how budget decisions are being made.

Unless you have the courage to say we are who we are and live within your means, sooner or later you go broke and you go under. You might get a few good years out of it but eventually the system breaks. The other choice is to live within your means, take your lumps against those who are better off but you still get to play the game.

+1 as usual arkst04-cheers
08-17-2011 11:59 AM
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