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Kedzman Offline
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Interesting article from RealClearPolitics.com... Kenyan economist shows how handouts to Africa kill the progress of free market capitalism and perpetuate laziness and poverty.

<a href='http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html' target='_blank'>http://service.spiegel.de/cache/internatio...,363663,00.html</a>

IMO, the biggest problem with Africa are the corrupt governments that starve, oppress and slaughter their own people. These governments need to be squeezed out and run off. Are there health issues in Africa? Yes. Do victims of natural disaster deserve food, clothing and shelter? Indeed.

I wish everyone could read this article. It just goes to prove that liberalism does not work. Throwing money at a situation is not the answer. Capitalism, free markets, democracy and freedom work. Empower people to be productive and they will respond in kind.
07-06-2005 09:30 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Offline
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Kedzman Wrote:Interesting article from RealClearPolitics.com... Kenyan economist shows how handouts to Africa kill the progress of free market capitalism and perpetuate laziness and poverty.

<a href='http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html' target='_blank'>http://service.spiegel.de/cache/internatio...,363663,00.html</a>

IMO, the biggest problem with Africa are the corrupt governments that starve, oppress and slaughter their own people. These governments need to be squeezed out and run off. Are there health issues in Africa? Yes. Do victims of natural disaster deserve food, clothing and shelter? Indeed.

I wish everyone could read this article. It just goes to prove that liberalism does not work. Throwing money at a situation is not the answer. Capitalism, free markets, democracy and freedom work. Empower people to be productive and they will respond in kind.
Kedzman I love ya man, and agree with ya, but it seems like political talk on sports boards just inevitably follows one path, and that is down the toilet!
07-06-2005 10:25 PM
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niuguy Offline
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dont think its a liberal or concervative thing. its a human thing.

And you are correct about the corrupt governments. Ya cant argue the economic benifits of debt relief when used properly by quality governments. Millions of dollars freed up to spend on schools and business. They need to find a way to ensure the money gets to where its supposed to.
07-06-2005 11:19 PM
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NIU007 Online
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niuguy Wrote:dont think its a liberal or concervative thing. its a human thing.

And you are correct about the corrupt governments. Ya cant argue the economic benifits of debt relief when used properly by quality governments. Millions of dollars freed up to spend on schools and business. They need to find a way to ensure the money gets to where its supposed to.
I think it goes without saying that you need more than one person's opinion on the topic, even if they're supposed to be an expert. He probably has a good point on some of this aid. On the other hand, if people starve while these problems are being ironed out, they're still dead, it doesn't help them any - and there could be a very large number. Economists don't have to worry about that, because they aren't responsible. So that still has to be considered.

Mostly playing devil's advocate here, there are obviously problems with the aid programs that need to be addressed.
07-07-2005 07:51 AM
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Huskie_Jon Offline
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Kedzman, for a minute there, I thought you were referring to a Keynesian economist. :D

I totally agree with the article, and yes, it is the Liberal solution to throw more money at the problem.

What confuses niuguy is that Republicans, like George W. Bush, have decided to take up some Liberal-throw money at the problem, solutions, in an attempt to get Lberal votes. Such is the case with his "No Child Left Behind" program, and his big push to cure Aids in Africa. GWB refers to this as "compassionate conservativism". I call it "trying to appease Liberal voters".

Quote: Millions of dollars freed up to spend on schools and business.

Not only am I against corporate welfare, but even school spending should be privatized at best, and localized at least. The dollars are not really freed up until they are given back to their rightful owners: The tax payers.
07-07-2005 08:14 AM
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HuskieDan Offline
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Post: #6
 
Kedzman Wrote:Interesting article from RealClearPolitics.com... Kenyan economist shows how handouts to Africa kill the progress of free market capitalism and perpetuate laziness and poverty.

<a href='http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html' target='_blank'>http://service.spiegel.de/cache/internatio...,363663,00.html</a>

IMO, the biggest problem with Africa are the corrupt governments that starve, oppress and slaughter their own people. These governments need to be squeezed out and run off. Are there health issues in Africa? Yes. Do victims of natural disaster deserve food, clothing and shelter? Indeed.

I wish everyone could read this article. It just goes to prove that liberalism does not work. Throwing money at a situation is not the answer. Capitalism, free markets, democracy and freedom work. Empower people to be productive and they will respond in kind.
Liberalism doesn't work because there are corrupt individuals, so we should just let everyone fend for themselves?

Makes you wonder what sicko came up with the bull**** term "compassionate conservative"?
07-07-2005 09:55 AM
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There are roughly 70 million children who live with disease, hunger and abject poverty on the continent of Africa. You political geniuses don't have any respect for the gravity of the situation. President George W. Bush understands the Christian and moral obligation the world's economic mighty must play in that region. And thank God for that. It is only too bad that so few relative dollars and means of support flow into that region of the world. Human beings have an obligation to their fellow man. And by nearly every account, we who are blessed fail on all cylinders.
07-07-2005 10:03 AM
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niu85alum Wrote:There are roughly 70 million children who live with disease, hunger and abject poverty on the continent of Africa. You political geniuses don't have any respect for the gravity of the situation. President George W. Bush understands the Christian and moral obligation the world's economic mighty must play in that region. And thank God for that. It is only too bad that so few relative dollars and means of support flow into that region of the world. Human beings have an obligation to their fellow man. And by nearly every account, we who are blessed fail on all cylinders.
Are you saying Christians are the only ones who show moral obligation?

What does being Christian have to do with anything?
07-07-2005 10:07 AM
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Huskie_Jon Offline
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Liberalism prevents people from fending for themselves.

That's why they want to ban guns.

A Liberal government will break your legs, and then throw you a crutch, and say, "Look! You would not even be able to walk without the Government."
07-07-2005 10:09 AM
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Field Turf Wrote:
niu85alum Wrote:There are roughly 70 million children who live with disease, hunger and abject poverty on the continent of Africa.&nbsp; You political geniuses don't have any respect for the gravity of the situation.&nbsp; President George W. Bush understands the Christian and moral obligation the world's economic mighty must play in that region.&nbsp; And thank God for that.&nbsp; It is only too bad that so few relative dollars and means of support flow into that region of the world.&nbsp; Human beings have an obligation to their fellow man.&nbsp; And by nearly every account, we who are blessed fail on all cylinders.
Are you saying Christians are the only ones who show moral obligation?

What does being Christian have to do with anything?
Don't think I said that.
07-07-2005 10:15 AM
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Huskie_Jon Wrote:Liberalism prevents people from fending for themselves.

That's why they want to ban guns.

A Liberal government will break your legs, and then throw you a crutch, and say, "Look! You would not even be able to walk without the Government."
If the governments in Africa were not corrupt, people over there would still have AIDS, and they would still die from it, even if it's "only 1 million" people instead of 3 million people. If the money that is sent over there ends up in the correct hands, it is a good thing. The money can be used to buy clothes or food or whatever is needed, locally, so the African businesses benefit, rather than being thrown out of business. Most aid agencies already do things this way wherever possible. Right now there's a problem getting the money to the right places, but cutting off funding altogether is not the answer.

Anyway, I'd rather have the broken leg than have the Conservatives send me over to Iraq to get killed for no reason at all (or, should I say, a totally made-up reason that has no basis in fact).
07-07-2005 10:33 AM
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dynovinyl Offline
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I was in Africa last year. Republic of Congo. Brazzaville and Point Noir. Simply incredible. The compassion, caring and love that people express there puts us to shame.

I'll leave all the political talk alone. I'm so sick of the polarization of this country and the genralizms that come with it.
07-07-2005 12:04 PM
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niuhuskie84 Offline
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Quote:I'm so sick of the polarization of this country and the genralizms that come with it.
i agree 100%. everything lately is liberal or democrat, black or white, with us or against us. i never understood how you could make decisions on things before you even know the facts. the whole party system really just makes me sick. make up your own mind on issues.
07-07-2005 12:59 PM
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RobertN Offline
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niu85alum Wrote:
Field Turf Wrote:
niu85alum Wrote:There are roughly 70 million children who live with disease, hunger and abject poverty on the continent of Africa.  You political geniuses don't have any respect for the gravity of the situation.  President George W. Bush understands the Christian and moral obligation the world's economic mighty must play in that region.  And thank God for that.  It is only too bad that so few relative dollars and means of support flow into that region of the world.  Human beings have an obligation to their fellow man.  And by nearly every account, we who are blessed fail on all cylinders.
Are you saying Christians are the only ones who show moral obligation?

What does being Christian have to do with anything?
Don't think I said that.
Maybe not but you did say W. is a Christian :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

He is more like :devil: if anything.


As for Africa, I honestly don't think much can be done. It won't change because the population doesn't want to change. JMHO.
07-07-2005 02:09 PM
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NIU Homer Offline
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Yes I will most likely vote for the same party 80% percent of the time, but I don't vote for someone just because they are a Republican. It's sickening to see people that will vote for anyone just because they are a Republican or a Democrat. Vote for the person you most agree with, not their party affiliation. Heck, I even voted for Perot in '92. I was also only 19 at the time.

Debating politics is like debating which football team you should be a fan of. I can argue with Rocket fans that the Huskies have the best recruits, mascot, colors, fans, location, facilities, education, cheerleaders, etc. and I doubt that anyone of them will say "You know, you are right! Why didn't I notice this before? I am now a Huskie fan".
07-07-2005 02:10 PM
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Huskie_Jon Offline
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Quote:the whole party system really just makes me sick. make up your own mind on issues.&nbsp;

And then what?
07-07-2005 02:10 PM
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RobertN Wrote:
niu85alum Wrote:
Field Turf Wrote:
niu85alum Wrote:There are roughly 70 million children who live with disease, hunger and abject poverty on the continent of Africa.  You political geniuses don't have any respect for the gravity of the situation.  President George W. Bush understands the Christian and moral obligation the world's economic mighty must play in that region.  And thank God for that.  It is only too bad that so few relative dollars and means of support flow into that region of the world.  Human beings have an obligation to their fellow man.  And by nearly every account, we who are blessed fail on all cylinders.
Are you saying Christians are the only ones who show moral obligation?

What does being Christian have to do with anything?
Don't think I said that.
Maybe not but you did say W. is a Christian :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

He is more like :devil: if anything.


As for Africa, I honestly don't think much can be done. It won't change because the population doesn't want to change. JMHO.
Seems to me W. Bush endorses people of all faiths, to include Jews and Muslims. Perhaps one day you will take your apron off, walk outside the Kwik-e-Mart, and praise heaven for being a citizen of the United States of America instead of attacking our commander-in-chief. If you can't do that, then might I suggest you sign up for deportation.
07-07-2005 02:29 PM
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niu85alum Wrote:Seems to me W. Bush endorses people of all faiths, to include Jews and Muslims. Perhaps one day you will take your apron off, walk outside the Kwik-e-Mart, and praise heaven for being a citizen of the United States of America instead of attacking our commander-in-chief. If you can't do that, then might I suggest you sign up for deportation.
First he "endorses" them (not sure what that means), then he bombs them. And there's nothing wrong with attacking the commander-in-chief, if he's going out of his way to create more enemies that will then attack us civilians (of course, the C-in-C is safely tucked away by the Secret Service to an undisclosed location....wimp). It's like if Japan attacked us in WWII and we had retaliated by bombing Madagascar.
07-07-2005 02:47 PM
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RobertN Offline
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niu85alum Wrote:
RobertN Wrote:
niu85alum Wrote:
Field Turf Wrote:
niu85alum Wrote:There are roughly 70 million children who live with disease, hunger and abject poverty on the continent of Africa.  You political geniuses don't have any respect for the gravity of the situation.  President George W. Bush understands the Christian and moral obligation the world's economic mighty must play in that region.  And thank God for that.  It is only too bad that so few relative dollars and means of support flow into that region of the world.  Human beings have an obligation to their fellow man.  And by nearly every account, we who are blessed fail on all cylinders.
Are you saying Christians are the only ones who show moral obligation?

What does being Christian have to do with anything?
Don't think I said that.
Maybe not but you did say W. is a Christian :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

He is more like :devil: if anything.


As for Africa, I honestly don't think much can be done. It won't change because the population doesn't want to change. JMHO.
Seems to me W. Bush endorses people of all faiths, to include Jews and Muslims. Perhaps one day you will take your apron off, walk outside the Kwik-e-Mart, and praise heaven for being a citizen of the United States of America instead of attacking our commander-in-chief. If you can't do that, then might I suggest you sign up for deportation.
:) Typical Neo-Con response. If you don't like it , leave. How original. :rolleyes: I have a right to free speech. I don't like where the "right" is taking this country(I actually normally lean toward the right for economic issues) If you think living in a country with most of its laws and the way we live based on the Bible, that is fine, you have the right to live your life by the Bible but most people in this country don't want that despite what the Christian Taliban say(notice, I am not saying the average Christian). Of course he "endorses" most/all religions he and the congressmen needed them to get reelected. That however doesn't mean that he "likes" other religions.

I am not sure God likes people declaring war on a country and kill/murder as many innocent people that we have. Especially since that country did not attack us(I have a feeling you are one of those who believes that Iraq attacked us on 9/11) If I am not mistaken the former Pope made some negative comments about the war.
07-07-2005 02:55 PM
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Post: #20
 
This thread is over for me. I make it a point not to enter debate with those who are unpatriotic or make disparaging remarks against our military.
07-07-2005 03:00 PM
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