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Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
Appears Helm's is used. If so Syracuse has three titles in mbb. Pitt has like 9 in FB.
05-28-2019 11:51 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 11:10 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 12:48 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Fall:
38 in Football
8 in Men's Cross Country
1 in Women's Cross Country
1 in Women's Soccer

Winter:
11 in Men's Basketball
9 in Women's Basketball
20 in Women's Gymnastics
20 in Men's Indoor Track
15 in Women's Indoor Track
11 in Men's Swimming & Diving
15 in Women's Swimming & Diving
2 in Women's Bowling
2 in Rifle

Spring:
12 in Baseball
3 in Softball
21 in Men's Outdoor Track & Field
17 in Women's Outdoor Track & Field
7 in Men's Tennis
10 in Women's Tennis
13 in Men's Golf
4 in Women's Golf
1 in Boxing
15 in Equestrian

And those don't include national championships won this year like Vandy's women's tennis team yesterday, or Auburn's Equestrian this year.

Do you have a source that catalogs these things by conference like CFB Data Warehouse use to do for just football?

It's by conference on wikipedia. They even acknowledge disputed claims which I didn't list. Conference web sites will have it too.
05-28-2019 11:53 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 11:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It's by conference on wikipedia. They even acknowledge disputed claims which I didn't list. Conference web sites will have it too.


I found nothing on the ACC website. The closest I found on Wikipedia was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NC...mpionships
05-28-2019 12:43 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 12:43 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 11:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It's by conference on wikipedia. They even acknowledge disputed claims which I didn't list. Conference web sites will have it too.


I found nothing on the ACC website. The closest I found on Wikipedia was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NC...mpionships

Query: List of ACC national championships. Wiki lists them all. I just checked.
05-28-2019 03:41 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 03:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Query: List of ACC national championships. Wiki lists them all. I just checked.

Okay, so as expected those numbers are quite a bit muddier than you might think. I'd group the titles by the school and the count by the current conference membership. I think you'll find that radically alters the numbers.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2019 04:12 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
05-28-2019 04:12 PM
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Ragu Offline
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Post: #66
Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
Florida State got absolutely nothing for signing the GOR. What a giant f up by the inept leadership. Then Barron bolts right after .. he shouldn't have been able to sign anything !!!

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05-28-2019 04:15 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 04:12 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 03:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Query: List of ACC national championships. Wiki lists them all. I just checked.

Okay, so as expected those numbers are quite a bit muddier than you might think. I'd group the titles by the school and the count by the current conference membership. I think you'll find that radically alters the numbers.

The original purpose was to point out the SEC is not a one trick pony as you claimed. Whether the waters are muddy or not it's pretty obvious we win titles across the board. How many the ACC has or doesn't have is not the issue. Conference media guides list them all. You ought to check out buying one from the conference office.
05-28-2019 04:29 PM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
I just think it’s telling that The SEC keeps an ongoing up to date, up to the minute list of every championship the league has ever won in every sport including rifle and equestrian.

Further proof “It Just Means More” in The SEC.....
05-28-2019 05:10 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 05:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I just think it’s telling that The SEC keeps an ongoing up to date, up to the minute list of every championship the league has ever won in every sport including rifle and equestrian.

Further proof “It Just Means More” in The SEC.....

If the political divide continues rifle may become mandatory CJ!
05-28-2019 07:17 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
[quote='Ragu' pid='16122310' dateline='1559078144']
Florida State got absolutely nothing for signing the GOR. What a giant f up by the inept leadership. Then Barron bolts right after .. he shouldn't have been able to sign anything !!!



Of course you got something. You got to to continue to play for a national title by beating Clemson and Florida instead of having to beat Florida, Georgia, and two of Auburn/Bama/TAMU/LSU without having to worry about adding 20K seats to your stadium to keep pace with Bama, TN, LSU and TAMU.
05-28-2019 09:10 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 04:15 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Florida State got absolutely nothing for signing the GOR. What a giant f up by the inept leadership. Then Barron bolts right after .. he shouldn't have been able to sign anything !!!

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Where you gonna go? B12? UF gonna blackball you. Pathetic SEC wannabe.
05-28-2019 09:18 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 09:18 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 04:15 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Florida State got absolutely nothing for signing the GOR. What a giant f up by the inept leadership. Then Barron bolts right after .. he shouldn't have been able to sign anything !!!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Where you gonna go? B12? UF gonna blackball you. Pathetic SEC wannabe.

The blackball is an internet myth. It never existed. Quite the contrary! Slive asked for a gentlemen's agreement not to nominate your in state rival until the 2 new markets that were requirements in the contract's renegotiation clause were met.

At the time both Florida and South Carolina were willing to endorse their in state rivals. Why? They were scared that if the conferences continued to grow that they would be unable to easily schedule them. Since both schools build their donation priority around the FSU/Clemson tickets they wanted them in the conference, just as Florida wanted in '92 when the Gator's did sponsor the Noles for SEC membership.

The blackball thing is a purely histrionic misinterpretation of what happened in the meeting of the presidents that was perpetrated by by then blogger Clay Travis who was trying to gain attention (and he did).

Georgia was even willing to sponsor Tech should the ACC have blown up following Maryland's departure. Kentucky was the only SEC school at that time that was said to not be willing to sponsor their in state rival. I have no doubt but what the Aggies feel that way today, but they weren't members in 2011.

I don't know how many times I've had to explain this but once the misinformation was out on the internet no amount of explanation could stop the proliferation of ignorance on this matter.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2019 09:33 PM by JRsec.)
05-28-2019 09:30 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 09:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 09:18 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 04:15 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Florida State got absolutely nothing for signing the GOR. What a giant f up by the inept leadership. Then Barron bolts right after .. he shouldn't have been able to sign anything !!!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Where you gonna go? B12? UF gonna blackball you. Pathetic SEC wannabe.

The blackball is an internet myth. It never existed. Quite the contrary! Slive asked for a gentlemen's agreement not to nominate your in state rival until the 2 new markets that were requirements in the contract's renegotiation clause were met.

At the time both Florida and South Carolina were willing to endorse their in state rivals. Why? They were scared that if the conferences continued to grow that they would be unable to easily schedule them. Since both schools build their donation priority around the FSU/Clemson tickets they wanted them in the conference, just as Florida wanted in '92 when the Gator's did sponsor the Noles for SEC membership.

The blackball thing is a purely histrionic misinterpretation of what happened in the meeting of the presidents that was perpetrated by by then blogger Clay Travis who was trying to gain attention (and he did).

Georgia was even willing to sponsor Tech should the ACC have blown up following Maryland's departure. Kentucky was the only SEC school at that time that was said to not be willing to sponsor their in state rival. I have no doubt but what the Aggies feel that way today, but they weren't members in 2011.

I don't know how many times I've had to explain this but once the misinformation was out on the internet no amount of explanation could stop the proliferation of ignorance on this matter.

I believe you.

Still, FSU to SEC is unlikely. It's unclear whether FSU would deliver enough revenue for the SEC, which is already very popular in Florida. FSU agreed to extend the GOR in 2016, implying 1) it knows it's not going to receive an invitation from the SEC and/or 2) the ACCN would be sufficiently successful.
05-28-2019 10:02 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 10:02 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 09:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 09:18 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 04:15 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Florida State got absolutely nothing for signing the GOR. What a giant f up by the inept leadership. Then Barron bolts right after .. he shouldn't have been able to sign anything !!!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Where you gonna go? B12? UF gonna blackball you. Pathetic SEC wannabe.

The blackball is an internet myth. It never existed. Quite the contrary! Slive asked for a gentlemen's agreement not to nominate your in state rival until the 2 new markets that were requirements in the contract's renegotiation clause were met.

At the time both Florida and South Carolina were willing to endorse their in state rivals. Why? They were scared that if the conferences continued to grow that they would be unable to easily schedule them. Since both schools build their donation priority around the FSU/Clemson tickets they wanted them in the conference, just as Florida wanted in '92 when the Gator's did sponsor the Noles for SEC membership.

The blackball thing is a purely histrionic misinterpretation of what happened in the meeting of the presidents that was perpetrated by by then blogger Clay Travis who was trying to gain attention (and he did).

Georgia was even willing to sponsor Tech should the ACC have blown up following Maryland's departure. Kentucky was the only SEC school at that time that was said to not be willing to sponsor their in state rival. I have no doubt but what the Aggies feel that way today, but they weren't members in 2011.

I don't know how many times I've had to explain this but once the misinformation was out on the internet no amount of explanation could stop the proliferation of ignorance on this matter.

I believe you.

Still, FSU to SEC is unlikely. It's unclear whether FSU would deliver enough revenue for the SEC, which is already very popular in Florida. FSU agreed to extend the GOR in 2016, implying 1) it knows it's not going to receive an invitation from the SEC and/or 2) the ACCN would be sufficiently successful.

I think this is mostly true. What I would add is that even if F.S.U. would add to the SEC's bottom line the other impediment, and it's a big one, is that ESPN doesn't want to devalue its investment in the ACC by having F.S.U. (or Clemson) leave, which is probably why the renegotiation clause of the SEC's 2011 contract required two new markets. I know that since they control the valuations of incoming members to the SEC that ESPN has a control over the SEC via the valuation. In other words if they aren't willing to pay us more for F.S.U. then we aren't likely to ask them. It's that control over the SEC by ESPN that keeps F.S.U. from counting on an invitation, even if they desired to leave which is certainly in doubt.

Everyone wants to think that one conference raids another. But most of the time it was one Network either raiding another, or seeking fuller control over a school in which they only had a partial stake in rights. FOX stole Maryland. They wanted to have a greater presence in the South and destabilizing the ACC might have made that more of a possibility. Missouri was a market grab by ESPN and a defensive move. A&M to the SEC and the LHN were ESPN moves for greater control in the state of Texas where they had shared those properties 50/50 with FOX in the original Big 12 rights deal. FOX wanted Nebraska's national appeal. The stripping of the Old Big East was because of friction in rights negotiations between ESPN and the OBE and an earlier dispute between ESPN and Delany. ESPN feared Delany's intent to move East with his then independent BTNetwork. Moving the best properties to the ACC protected them in the Northeast and enhanced their investment in the ACC.

Conferences make the moves for more money, but as in all things its the man with the open purse who controls the action.

Florida State is not viable to the SEC because ESPN doesn't want it and won't pay for it.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2019 10:34 PM by JRsec.)
05-28-2019 10:27 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 10:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 10:02 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 09:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 09:18 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 04:15 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Florida State got absolutely nothing for signing the GOR. What a giant f up by the inept leadership. Then Barron bolts right after .. he shouldn't have been able to sign anything !!!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Where you gonna go? B12? UF gonna blackball you. Pathetic SEC wannabe.

The blackball is an internet myth. It never existed. Quite the contrary! Slive asked for a gentlemen's agreement not to nominate your in state rival until the 2 new markets that were requirements in the contract's renegotiation clause were met.

At the time both Florida and South Carolina were willing to endorse their in state rivals. Why? They were scared that if the conferences continued to grow that they would be unable to easily schedule them. Since both schools build their donation priority around the FSU/Clemson tickets they wanted them in the conference, just as Florida wanted in '92 when the Gator's did sponsor the Noles for SEC membership.

The blackball thing is a purely histrionic misinterpretation of what happened in the meeting of the presidents that was perpetrated by by then blogger Clay Travis who was trying to gain attention (and he did).

Georgia was even willing to sponsor Tech should the ACC have blown up following Maryland's departure. Kentucky was the only SEC school at that time that was said to not be willing to sponsor their in state rival. I have no doubt but what the Aggies feel that way today, but they weren't members in 2011.

I don't know how many times I've had to explain this but once the misinformation was out on the internet no amount of explanation could stop the proliferation of ignorance on this matter.

I believe you.

Still, FSU to SEC is unlikely. It's unclear whether FSU would deliver enough revenue for the SEC, which is already very popular in Florida. FSU agreed to extend the GOR in 2016, implying 1) it knows it's not going to receive an invitation from the SEC and/or 2) the ACCN would be sufficiently successful.

I think this is mostly true. What I would add is that even if F.S.U. would add to the SEC's bottom line the other impediment, and it's a big one, is that ESPN doesn't want to devalue its investment in the ACC by having F.S.U. (or Clemson) leave, which is probably why the renegotiation clause of the SEC's 2011 contract required two new markets. I know that since they control the valuations of incoming members to the SEC that ESPN has a control over the SEC via the valuation. In other words if they aren't willing to pay us more for F.S.U. then we aren't likely to ask them. It's that control over the SEC by ESPN that keeps F.S.U. from counting on an invitation, even if they desired to leave which is certainly in doubt.

Everyone wants to think that one conference raids another. But most of the time it was one Network either raiding another, or seeking fuller control over a school in which they only had a partial stake in rights. FOX stole Maryland. They wanted to have a greater presence in the South and destabilizing the ACC might have made that more of a possibility. Missouri was a market grab by ESPN and a defensive move. A&M to the SEC and the LHN were ESPN moves for greater control in the state of Texas where they had shared those properties 50/50 with FOX in the original Big 12 rights deal. FOX wanted Nebraska's national appeal. The stripping of the Old Big East was because of friction in rights negotiations between ESPN and the OBE and an earlier dispute between ESPN and Delany. ESPN feared Delany's intent to move East with his then independent BTNetwork. Moving the best properties to the ACC protected them in the Northeast and enhanced their investment in the ACC.

Conferences make the moves for more money, but as in all things its the man with the open purse who controls the action.

Florida State is not viable to the SEC because ESPN doesn't want it and won't pay for it.


Now that FOX has reduced or is reducing their collegiate exposure we'll see how wide ESPN is willing to open their wallet in the upcoming negotiations with the B1G and the Big 12 (and to a lesser extent the PAC).
Without competition, ESPN was able to scoop all of the T3 for 8 Big 12 schools, plus the broadcast rights for 3 Big 12 championship games for $40 million.
That doesn't bode well for the three conferences that were expecting huge increases with their next contracts.
05-29-2019 04:32 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-29-2019 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 10:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 10:02 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 09:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 09:18 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  Where you gonna go? B12? UF gonna blackball you. Pathetic SEC wannabe.

The blackball is an internet myth. It never existed. Quite the contrary! Slive asked for a gentlemen's agreement not to nominate your in state rival until the 2 new markets that were requirements in the contract's renegotiation clause were met.

At the time both Florida and South Carolina were willing to endorse their in state rivals. Why? They were scared that if the conferences continued to grow that they would be unable to easily schedule them. Since both schools build their donation priority around the FSU/Clemson tickets they wanted them in the conference, just as Florida wanted in '92 when the Gator's did sponsor the Noles for SEC membership.

The blackball thing is a purely histrionic misinterpretation of what happened in the meeting of the presidents that was perpetrated by by then blogger Clay Travis who was trying to gain attention (and he did).

Georgia was even willing to sponsor Tech should the ACC have blown up following Maryland's departure. Kentucky was the only SEC school at that time that was said to not be willing to sponsor their in state rival. I have no doubt but what the Aggies feel that way today, but they weren't members in 2011.

I don't know how many times I've had to explain this but once the misinformation was out on the internet no amount of explanation could stop the proliferation of ignorance on this matter.

I believe you.

Still, FSU to SEC is unlikely. It's unclear whether FSU would deliver enough revenue for the SEC, which is already very popular in Florida. FSU agreed to extend the GOR in 2016, implying 1) it knows it's not going to receive an invitation from the SEC and/or 2) the ACCN would be sufficiently successful.

I think this is mostly true. What I would add is that even if F.S.U. would add to the SEC's bottom line the other impediment, and it's a big one, is that ESPN doesn't want to devalue its investment in the ACC by having F.S.U. (or Clemson) leave, which is probably why the renegotiation clause of the SEC's 2011 contract required two new markets. I know that since they control the valuations of incoming members to the SEC that ESPN has a control over the SEC via the valuation. In other words if they aren't willing to pay us more for F.S.U. then we aren't likely to ask them. It's that control over the SEC by ESPN that keeps F.S.U. from counting on an invitation, even if they desired to leave which is certainly in doubt.

Everyone wants to think that one conference raids another. But most of the time it was one Network either raiding another, or seeking fuller control over a school in which they only had a partial stake in rights. FOX stole Maryland. They wanted to have a greater presence in the South and destabilizing the ACC might have made that more of a possibility. Missouri was a market grab by ESPN and a defensive move. A&M to the SEC and the LHN were ESPN moves for greater control in the state of Texas where they had shared those properties 50/50 with FOX in the original Big 12 rights deal. FOX wanted Nebraska's national appeal. The stripping of the Old Big East was because of friction in rights negotiations between ESPN and the OBE and an earlier dispute between ESPN and Delany. ESPN feared Delany's intent to move East with his then independent BTNetwork. Moving the best properties to the ACC protected them in the Northeast and enhanced their investment in the ACC.

Conferences make the moves for more money, but as in all things its the man with the open purse who controls the action.

Florida State is not viable to the SEC because ESPN doesn't want it and won't pay for it.

Now that FOX has reduced or is reducing their collegiate exposure we'll see how wide ESPN is willing to open their wallet in the upcoming negotiations with the B1G and the Big 12 (and to a lesser extent the PAC).
Without competition, ESPN was able to scoop all of the T3 for 8 Big 12 schools, plus the broadcast rights for 3 Big 12 championship games for $40 million.
That doesn't bode well for the three conferences that were expecting huge increases with their next contracts.

TRUE. Whatever happens with the Big Ten, Big XII and SEC rights will determine whether college football as we know it lives or dies. If ESPN or CBS (or some other entity) pays what JR thinks they'll pay it could rip the sport apart. If the networks have no stomach for paying that much, it could usher in an era of stability... or not?
05-29-2019 06:04 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-29-2019 06:04 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-29-2019 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 10:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 10:02 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 09:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The blackball is an internet myth. It never existed. Quite the contrary! Slive asked for a gentlemen's agreement not to nominate your in state rival until the 2 new markets that were requirements in the contract's renegotiation clause were met.

At the time both Florida and South Carolina were willing to endorse their in state rivals. Why? They were scared that if the conferences continued to grow that they would be unable to easily schedule them. Since both schools build their donation priority around the FSU/Clemson tickets they wanted them in the conference, just as Florida wanted in '92 when the Gator's did sponsor the Noles for SEC membership.

The blackball thing is a purely histrionic misinterpretation of what happened in the meeting of the presidents that was perpetrated by by then blogger Clay Travis who was trying to gain attention (and he did).

Georgia was even willing to sponsor Tech should the ACC have blown up following Maryland's departure. Kentucky was the only SEC school at that time that was said to not be willing to sponsor their in state rival. I have no doubt but what the Aggies feel that way today, but they weren't members in 2011.

I don't know how many times I've had to explain this but once the misinformation was out on the internet no amount of explanation could stop the proliferation of ignorance on this matter.

I believe you.

Still, FSU to SEC is unlikely. It's unclear whether FSU would deliver enough revenue for the SEC, which is already very popular in Florida. FSU agreed to extend the GOR in 2016, implying 1) it knows it's not going to receive an invitation from the SEC and/or 2) the ACCN would be sufficiently successful.

I think this is mostly true. What I would add is that even if F.S.U. would add to the SEC's bottom line the other impediment, and it's a big one, is that ESPN doesn't want to devalue its investment in the ACC by having F.S.U. (or Clemson) leave, which is probably why the renegotiation clause of the SEC's 2011 contract required two new markets. I know that since they control the valuations of incoming members to the SEC that ESPN has a control over the SEC via the valuation. In other words if they aren't willing to pay us more for F.S.U. then we aren't likely to ask them. It's that control over the SEC by ESPN that keeps F.S.U. from counting on an invitation, even if they desired to leave which is certainly in doubt.

Everyone wants to think that one conference raids another. But most of the time it was one Network either raiding another, or seeking fuller control over a school in which they only had a partial stake in rights. FOX stole Maryland. They wanted to have a greater presence in the South and destabilizing the ACC might have made that more of a possibility. Missouri was a market grab by ESPN and a defensive move. A&M to the SEC and the LHN were ESPN moves for greater control in the state of Texas where they had shared those properties 50/50 with FOX in the original Big 12 rights deal. FOX wanted Nebraska's national appeal. The stripping of the Old Big East was because of friction in rights negotiations between ESPN and the OBE and an earlier dispute between ESPN and Delany. ESPN feared Delany's intent to move East with his then independent BTNetwork. Moving the best properties to the ACC protected them in the Northeast and enhanced their investment in the ACC.

Conferences make the moves for more money, but as in all things its the man with the open purse who controls the action.

Florida State is not viable to the SEC because ESPN doesn't want it and won't pay for it.

Now that FOX has reduced or is reducing their collegiate exposure we'll see how wide ESPN is willing to open their wallet in the upcoming negotiations with the B1G and the Big 12 (and to a lesser extent the PAC).
Without competition, ESPN was able to scoop all of the T3 for 8 Big 12 schools, plus the broadcast rights for 3 Big 12 championship games for $40 million.
That doesn't bode well for the three conferences that were expecting huge increases with their next contracts.

TRUE. Whatever happens with the Big Ten, Big XII and SEC rights will determine whether college football as we know it lives or dies. If ESPN or CBS (or some other entity) pays what JR thinks they'll pay it could rip the sport apart. If the networks have no stomach for paying that much, it could usher in an era of stability... or not?

Maybe. What is pretty clear is that the SEC will get way more than 55 million per year for their T1 and it's going to be hard for CBS not to be pushed for the SEC's T1. FOX is flush right now and they've wanted broadcasts in the Southeast for quite sometime. It is the #1 time slot for ratings in all of college football. I suspect the floor is 275 million, but we'll see. The problem however is that the Big 10 is already at 54 million. The SEC will catch that if they get $200 million for their T1 and that figure is significantly lower per viewer than what the Big 10 got for theirs in their FOX contract. 200 million puts the SEC at 53.5 million. The expected 275 puts us at 58+. But if we didn't earn another dime the Big 10 will still be at 54 and that's 24.5 million more than the ACC or roughly the same for the PAC which is close to doubling the payouts of both of those conferences. It's also 18 million more than the Big 12 which is a total that eclipses all of Texas's revenue by 3 million.

While competitively the 5 P conferences were closing the gap a bit, economically things have never had greater disparity and that is the current reality regardless of what the SEC gets for their T1 renewal. And remember the media rights are just a quarter to a third of total revenue depending upon the school.

So while I agree that hitting a ceiling will help tamp down the disparity initially, what it also does, which is destabilizing, is to lock in the current disparities. Where we could wind up is a payout world where the Big 10's extra TV revenue equalizes the total revenue gap with the SEC which last year was an average of 11 million more per school than the Big 10, and with the ACCN hitting peak in a few years having the next run down be the 35-38 million range for the Big 12 and ACC while the PAC lagged another 6-8 million behind that (and all of that is assuming the SEC doesn't get an increase at all for a 15 year old undervalued contract renewal).

Now to the other part of your assumption. It could well be that FOX and ESPN have determined that the Big 12's next 8 are grossly overpaid and that each hopes to cut overhead by only paying well for the two top products. Even a little bidding war for Texas and Oklahoma wouldn't deter the long range benefits of not overpaying Baylor, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Texas Tech, T.C.U., and West Virginia. Think the 10-12 million range per school the AAC might make as being in line with where these should be, rather than 36 million.

Coming out of the Spring Meetings of several P5 conferences is a growing consensus on moving to divisionless scheduling. Should we go there expansion to only 15 becomes quite feasible. In that environment the Networks would be quite willing to cull the Big 12 and that would explain why ESPN low-balled their T3 at AAC levels and FOX demurred. But just because FOX demurred on the Big 12 rights don't forget they are flush and ready and if they have a shot at the SEC T1 it gives them what they have wanted since entering the college sports arena, a big slice of the Southeast.

So Mark, the instability that FOX created with the Big 10's last contract may well be exacerbated by FOX again should they make a serious run at the SEC's T1.
05-29-2019 09:07 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-28-2019 07:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 05:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I just think it’s telling that The SEC keeps an ongoing up to date, up to the minute list of every championship the league has ever won in every sport including rifle and equestrian.

Further proof “It Just Means More” in The SEC.....

If the political divide continues rifle may become mandatory CJ!

That’s the truth. Kentucky and West Virginia both do well in Rifle. Would like to see UofL field a Rifle team as well. I would love me some Red and Black Realtree Camo.
Can’t believe we don’t have an Equestrian team either, considering we are one of the few universities that offers an equine industries course of study.
05-29-2019 10:26 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Big 10 revenue exceeds expectations. $54 million per team
(05-29-2019 09:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-29-2019 06:04 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-29-2019 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 10:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 10:02 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  I believe you.

Still, FSU to SEC is unlikely. It's unclear whether FSU would deliver enough revenue for the SEC, which is already very popular in Florida. FSU agreed to extend the GOR in 2016, implying 1) it knows it's not going to receive an invitation from the SEC and/or 2) the ACCN would be sufficiently successful.

I think this is mostly true. What I would add is that even if F.S.U. would add to the SEC's bottom line the other impediment, and it's a big one, is that ESPN doesn't want to devalue its investment in the ACC by having F.S.U. (or Clemson) leave, which is probably why the renegotiation clause of the SEC's 2011 contract required two new markets. I know that since they control the valuations of incoming members to the SEC that ESPN has a control over the SEC via the valuation. In other words if they aren't willing to pay us more for F.S.U. then we aren't likely to ask them. It's that control over the SEC by ESPN that keeps F.S.U. from counting on an invitation, even if they desired to leave which is certainly in doubt.

Everyone wants to think that one conference raids another. But most of the time it was one Network either raiding another, or seeking fuller control over a school in which they only had a partial stake in rights. FOX stole Maryland. They wanted to have a greater presence in the South and destabilizing the ACC might have made that more of a possibility. Missouri was a market grab by ESPN and a defensive move. A&M to the SEC and the LHN were ESPN moves for greater control in the state of Texas where they had shared those properties 50/50 with FOX in the original Big 12 rights deal. FOX wanted Nebraska's national appeal. The stripping of the Old Big East was because of friction in rights negotiations between ESPN and the OBE and an earlier dispute between ESPN and Delany. ESPN feared Delany's intent to move East with his then independent BTNetwork. Moving the best properties to the ACC protected them in the Northeast and enhanced their investment in the ACC.

Conferences make the moves for more money, but as in all things its the man with the open purse who controls the action.

Florida State is not viable to the SEC because ESPN doesn't want it and won't pay for it.

Now that FOX has reduced or is reducing their collegiate exposure we'll see how wide ESPN is willing to open their wallet in the upcoming negotiations with the B1G and the Big 12 (and to a lesser extent the PAC).
Without competition, ESPN was able to scoop all of the T3 for 8 Big 12 schools, plus the broadcast rights for 3 Big 12 championship games for $40 million.
That doesn't bode well for the three conferences that were expecting huge increases with their next contracts.

TRUE. Whatever happens with the Big Ten, Big XII and SEC rights will determine whether college football as we know it lives or dies. If ESPN or CBS (or some other entity) pays what JR thinks they'll pay it could rip the sport apart. If the networks have no stomach for paying that much, it could usher in an era of stability... or not?

Maybe. What is pretty clear is that the SEC will get way more than 55 million per year for their T1 and it's going to be hard for CBS not to be pushed for the SEC's T1. FOX is flush right now and they've wanted broadcasts in the Southeast for quite sometime. It is the #1 time slot for ratings in all of college football. I suspect the floor is 275 million, but we'll see. The problem however is that the Big 10 is already at 54 million. The SEC will catch that if they get $200 million for their T1 and that figure is significantly lower per viewer than what the Big 10 got for theirs in their FOX contract. 200 million puts the SEC at 53.5 million. The expected 275 puts us at 58+. But if we didn't earn another dime the Big 10 will still be at 54 and that's 24.5 million more than the ACC or roughly the same for the PAC which is close to doubling the payouts of both of those conferences. It's also 18 million more than the Big 12 which is a total that eclipses all of Texas's revenue by 3 million.

While competitively the 5 P conferences were closing the gap a bit, economically things have never had greater disparity and that is the current reality regardless of what the SEC gets for their T1 renewal. And remember the media rights are just a quarter to a third of total revenue depending upon the school.

So while I agree that hitting a ceiling will help tamp down the disparity initially, what it also does, which is destabilizing, is to lock in the current disparities. Where we could wind up is a payout world where the Big 10's extra TV revenue equalizes the total revenue gap with the SEC which last year was an average of 11 million more per school than the Big 10, and with the ACCN hitting peak in a few years having the next run down be the 35-38 million range for the Big 12 and ACC while the PAC lagged another 6-8 million behind that (and all of that is assuming the SEC doesn't get an increase at all for a 15 year old undervalued contract renewal).

Now to the other part of your assumption. It could well be that FOX and ESPN have determined that the Big 12's next 8 are grossly overpaid and that each hopes to cut overhead by only paying well for the two top products. Even a little bidding war for Texas and Oklahoma wouldn't deter the long range benefits of not overpaying Baylor, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Texas Tech, T.C.U., and West Virginia. Think the 10-12 million range per school the AAC might make as being in line with where these should be, rather than 36 million.

Coming out of the Spring Meetings of several P5 conferences is a growing consensus on moving to divisionless scheduling. Should we go there expansion to only 15 becomes quite feasible. In that environment the Networks would be quite willing to cull the Big 12 and that would explain why ESPN low-balled their T3 at AAC levels and FOX demurred. But just because FOX demurred on the Big 12 rights don't forget they are flush and ready and if they have a shot at the SEC T1 it gives them what they have wanted since entering the college sports arena, a big slice of the Southeast.

So Mark, the instability that FOX created with the Big 10's last contract may well be exacerbated by FOX again should they make a serious run at the SEC's T1.

No doubt - I didn't mean to imply that ESPN was at fault here, when clearly Fox started this trend (even earlier when they overpaid the Big XII and the Pac-12). The market will eventually reach equilibrium - but given the length of these contracts, that could take decades. Meanwhile the damage is being done.
05-29-2019 10:37 AM
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