http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spor...99677.html

And in Mademan's glee over coming onto our board to criticize a poster perhaps he can explain why there were only 20,125 for the S. Miss game. Number 15 in the nation deserves better support that. UH has taken heat for its attendance issues as have we but the way all the coog fans were talking I thought that every game out to the end of the season would be SRO.

(11-03-2009 01:17 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spor...99677.html

And in Mademan's glee over coming onto our board to criticize a poster perhaps he can explain why there were only 20,125 for the S. Miss game. Number 15 in the nation deserves better support that. UH has taken heat for its attendance issues as have we but the way all the coog fans were talking I thought that every game out to the end of the season would be SRO.

I told a COOG coworker that I wasn't planning to attend the UH game because tickets would be hard to find. Guess I'm wrong on that front.

The 40,000 seating for football is interesting. I wonder how they arrived at that seating capacity, or if the capacity will increase during the study? If the Coogs think their maximum draw is 40,000, what does that say for the capacity of HRS?

(11-03-2009 01:17 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spor...99677.html

And in Mademan's glee over coming onto our board to criticize a poster perhaps he can explain why there were only 20,125 for the S. Miss game. Number 15 in the nation deserves better support that. UH has taken heat for its attendance issues as have we but the way all the coog fans were talking I thought that every game out to the end of the season would be SRO.

Memphis and Rice will be SRO. There's not many tickets left. SMU was SRO and so will these two.

If you guys say "who cares about one poster" then stop throwing stones. You guys had your poster and we have ours. Do I think it was gay for him to come post here so you guys could get a spanking? Yes. I do.

And for Rice fans to actually be throwing attendance smack just compounds my sentence above for most ironic post of the year.

(11-03-2009 07:29 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  The 40,000 seating for football is interesting. I wonder how they arrived at that seating capacity, or if the capacity will increase during the study? If the Coogs think their maximum draw is 40,000, what does that say for the capacity of HRS?

I think it suggests pretty strongly that 40-50,000 is probably about right. I still think we'd be better served in the long run by turning HRS into a multi-sport facility in that size range. We'd be just fine for football, and we'd have opportunities to do a lot of things that we can't now.

(11-03-2009 09:01 AM)ShockerBob Wrote:  [quote='Tiki Owl' pid='4779220' dateline='1257229061']

Memphis and Rice will be SRO. There's not many tickets left. SMU was SRO and so will these two.

Umm, looks like your attendance for SMU was 26,899. Last I checked Robertson's capacity was 32,000. This is SRO?

http://www.uhcougars.com/sports/m-footbl...uhfb7.html

The attendence problem is probably why the Cougars did not get in A BCS conference when the SWC broke up. Their football and basketball programs had momentum in the 1970s and 1980s and then fizzled out. On our side, Rice would have been BCS if we had kept what we had in the 1950s.

(11-03-2009 10:57 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  Umm, looks like your attendance for SMU was 26,899. Last I checked Robertson's capacity was 32,000. This is SRO?

It's not. ShockerBoob has a tendency to prevaricate for sensationalism.

(11-03-2009 10:57 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  

(11-03-2009 09:01 AM)ShockerBob Wrote:  [quote='Tiki Owl' pid='4779220' dateline='1257229061']

Memphis and Rice will be SRO. There's not many tickets left. SMU was SRO and so will these two.

Umm, looks like your attendance for SMU was 26,899. Last I checked Robertson's capacity was 32,000. This is SRO?

http://www.uhcougars.com/sports/m-footbl...uhfb7.html

Umm....looks like Robertson has always held actual seatings much lower than 32000. It's around 28000 for actual seats.

SMU was SRO from what I heard. There were only general admission tickets left. Regardless of if 26.9K was announced. No, we're not Tulane with our announced attendance, so I'm not sure whether or not the Tech fans that bought packages counted towards the actual attendance count by going by ticket stubs at the gate.

But you do have the LIMIT thousands higher than your actual seats. So that answers your question TCU fan. Which is also ironic after your UNLV game @ home. Funny.

Tickets were hard to come by for the SMU game.

(11-03-2009 03:29 PM)Fiftysix Fortytwo Wrote:  

(11-03-2009 10:57 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  Umm, looks like your attendance for SMU was 26,899. Last I checked Robertson's capacity was 32,000. This is SRO?

It's not. ShockerBoob has a tendency to prevaricate for sensationalism.

Negative bucket lover. Negative. That would be you in your O'Quinn hatred.

its probably something of a catch-22. robertson won't be consistently sold out until we play higher-quality opponents, and we won't be able to play higher-quality opponents until we consistently sell out the stadium. ranked or not, i don't think most people really care to see an opponent like southern miss, or ucf, or ecu (not really a knock on those schools - they're just not as well known in this region)

if i had the time (or will) it might be interesting to run a simple OLS regression for non-BCS schools & city population... i mean, ECU has good attendance, but what the hell is there to do in that town?

the noon kickoff on halloween probably hurt a bit, but i can't say for sure it would have been substantively different if you remove those conditions

ao... the BIGGER problem is that if you play SIGNIFICANTLY better schools, you'll need a bigger stadium, which will make games that currently sell out look small.

Example... you'd need 45-60,000 for UT or A&M or OU, and in our good years you might get 40 or so for us or the service academies... but to get more than 25k for the schools you mention, even in years where you are very good will be a challenge...

It is simply a magnification of OUR problem... You might have/need a 45k seat stadium and frequently have 25k in it... We have a 70,000 seat stadium downsized to 48 but with 13 in it... I commented when UH hosted the CUSA championship that I was very worried about US hosting an eastern team that doesn't travel well... If we got the same 30,000 that sold out Robertson, it would still look like we were half-full.... though yes... I look forward to having that problem someday.

I like the idea we have with the tarps covering seats we COULD use, but it would cost some money to make them usable... not a ton, but a dent in what we might make from selling them. Personally, I think we should close the upper west stands except for the first few rows with tarps and perhaps even put tarps over some of the upper east,,, forcing seating into the TV picture... and while we might keep the curves closed, I'd open at least one end zone between the hashes and above the crossbar.

I know it sounds like a lot of work but I think it'd make things look better.

If we're only going to have 15k at a game, I'd rather have the lower stands look 80% full between the goal lines than have the whole stadium look like it is 20% full. It also creates a better atmosphere IMO. Cut the general seating down to about 30k like Robertson and open it up more for bigger games.

I've got my tix for UH-Rice. Got them from a Tech fan who had to buy a mini-package in order to get Tech.

(11-04-2009 12:07 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Personally, I think we should close the upper west stands except for the first few rows with tarps and perhaps even put tarps over some of the upper east,,, forcing seating into the TV picture... .

Why close the upper west stands?
That's where the TV cameras are - those seats are never in view of a camera.

If someone wants to spread out and not have to look into the sunset, let 'em.

The crowd at a moderately-attended game usually looks like a football in longitudinal cross-section.
Let the crowd decide where the tarps should be (not on a game-by-game basis).

A seat on the 50 in the upper deck is still better than a seat on the 10 in the lower bowl, IMHO.

Architecture semantics question: is there a special term for an entrance to a seating area that is in the middle of the seating area, like the entrances on the second deck of HRS?

A new stadium isn't a long term "magic bullet" for a team with attendance problems. Sure you might have an increase to see the "new place" for a couple of seasons, but that is it.

If you think about it UH never really had large crowds at the Dome after the SWC-- thats why the moved back on campus.

Since the rennovation in the late 90's the only "big" crowds has been the CUSA Championship or playing a former SWC team.

I think the small football crowds is more a culture of the school. If you don't live close to the University you have other options to spend your Saturday on.

(11-03-2009 01:17 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spor...99677.html

And in Mademan's glee over coming onto our board to criticize a poster perhaps he can explain why there were only 20,125 for the S. Miss game. Number 15 in the nation deserves better support that. UH has taken heat for its attendance issues as have we but the way all the coog fans were talking I thought that every game out to the end of the season would be SRO.

Ummm because we have the most apathetic alums in the nation? Does that work for you? Attendance has incrementally picked up year to year, but a generation of lost fans is hard to make up overnight. That goes for basketball too. At least our students are coming out for the most part. It will take consistent 9/10 win seasons to really up the ante. If UH is fortunate enough to hold on to Kevin Sumlin, there is no reason to believe that can't happen.

In retrospect I think one of the mistakes we made when we put in new bleachers was to not cater to the growing American waistline, i.e. make our "seats" (which for bleachers is just the spacing between the numbers) 24-27 inches instead of the standard 18-20. This would have effectively reduced our "capacity" while keeping fans spread out evenly.

Obviously at most games, this wouldn't change much for the home crowd, but it would spread the visitors section a little. But for big it would also create sellouts (realistically and visually) with c. 30,000 fans... which, let's face it, is apparently the max our athletic department thinks we can handle logistically.

Let's use America's ample size to our advantage here.

(11-04-2009 08:38 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(11-04-2009 12:07 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Personally, I think we should close the upper west stands except for the first few rows with tarps and perhaps even put tarps over some of the upper east,,, forcing seating into the TV picture... .

Why close the upper west stands?
That's where the TV cameras are - those seats are never in view of a camera.

... I always seem to get camera placement wrong, and if I did it again, I apologize... My point is to force people to sit where the cameras DO see them and to have few if any people sitting where the cameras AREN'T looking. Pictures of great plays with tarps in the background aren't as bad as having empty seats in the background.

Quote:If someone wants to spread out and not have to look into the sunset, let 'em.

The crowd at a moderately-attended game usually looks like a football in longitudinal cross-section.
Let the crowd decide where the tarps should be (not on a game-by-game basis).

What I meant by game by game is that if we expect 20k for UAB, we should have 30k in uncovered seats. If we expect 40k, we should have 50k uncovered. Not different configurations for each game, merely bigger footballs depending upon the expected attendance.

Quote:A seat on the 50 in the upper deck is still better than a seat on the 10 in the lower bowl, IMHO.

I don't disagree... so I would certainly look at opening more rows in the two middle sections of the upper deck and ten in the next two sections (continuing the football) or even tarping over the 0-10... but I have no concept of the number of seats each section represents. I ALSO like end-zone seats, though not too low... and we don't have any...

One point on attendance is that we have fans who won't come if they can't sit where they want... which is part of the problem. We have people conditioned to walk up game day and sit in a great seat, but we want them to make a commitment to advance purchases of tickets. Heck, even our visitors (especially UH fans who come so often) are conditioned to get great seats by walking up. How are we supposed to be properly staffed and have concessions ready when our walk-up crowd can vary so much?? Meanwhile, our regulars are often faced with sitting right next to a crowd of visitors (some who aren't so nice) who got their seats for a discount. Some of the things we complain about are a direct result of some of the things we really enjoy. Something has to give.

I think we could do something like variable pricing... though I don't pretend to have thought it through yet...
What I mean by that is offering a discount for season tickets rather than a premium vs single game purchases that nets us a premium over the price of the "hot" game mini-package and offers visitors or casual fans the opportunity to get GREAT seats for a slight premium and get the other games for free... as opposed to what we've conditioned them to do and that is to try and buy great seats on game day for the only game they remotely care about at a discount. As we sell more season tickets, we can reduce the discount.

Sure, that could mean we go from 12,000 to 9,000 for our bad games... and from 35,000 to 30,000 for our good ones for a year or two... but I believe it will ultimately result in higher revenues, higher attendance and more of a commitment from our casual fans.

As for parking issues on large games, we should be able to work something out with Metro or the Med center to run shuttles from garages or the train with satellite parking... close University from Main to the stadium entrance but for these shuttles... and offer TVs and perhaps even something like ESPN or CSTV "game-day" on the video board pre and post game to let people queue themselves.


ETA good idea TEX...

Of course, we can't even pretend to put pressure on ticket buyers when we have seasons where we lose our first 6 games, much less our first 8...

Hambone. I still like Rice Stadium better than Robertson however

oh so do I Bob... seriously one of the best facilities in the country, even 50 years later... the physical problems can be fixed more easily than Robertsons.... you can't easily add 20,000 seats, but its easy to take them away.

As I said, the problem is that when you are putting 15k in a stadium built for 70, or even 50... people aren't going to feel the excitement or feel like they need to buy season tickets.

I think the season ticket price at Rice is less than the stated price of buying all the individual tickets. However, the individual tickets are often put on discounted deals later in the season. I agree that it might make sense to block off the Upper East Deck since it is usually almost empty anyway.

I was wondering with the push to sell the Texas tickets in 2010 to Rice people whether the ticket would or would not be included in the season ticket package? I will go if if it is in the season ticket package, but I would not buy a ticket if it is not since the game is usually televised anyway.

Texas is not included with the six home game at the Stadium.

(11-04-2009 08:38 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(11-04-2009 12:07 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Personally, I think we should close the upper west stands except for the first few rows with tarps and perhaps even put tarps over some of the upper east,,, forcing seating into the TV picture... .

Why close the upper west stands?
That's where the TV cameras are - those seats are never in view of a camera.

If someone wants to spread out and not have to look into the sunset, let 'em.

The crowd at a moderately-attended game usually looks like a football in longitudinal cross-section.
Let the crowd decide where the tarps should be (not on a game-by-game basis).

A seat on the 50 in the upper deck is still better than a seat on the 10 in the lower bowl, IMHO.

Architecture semantics question: is there a special term for an entrance to a seating area that is in the middle of the seating area, like the entrances on the second deck of HRS?

Fora decade I was in the Owl Club and had box seats . . . I loved them. But my second child started private school and I now pick up the tab for three . . . so something had to to give (actually lots of somethings).

I still make every home game, but most of the time I'm in the upper deck, sitting around the 50. My eldest daughter misses the chairback boxes, . . . .but the truth is, the view of the game is incredible from the second deck mid field.

Same story here Rick... almost identical... but as I said... we need to get to a point where you can't simply walk up, buy a discounted ticket and sit on the 50. We will never have a season ticket base beyond our owl club and parents as long as that is the case... We need to have 15,000 season ticket holders... which means we need to have 15,000 seats, and NO MORE in the prime areas. If you're making every game anyway and don't want to sit outside the 30's, then buy a season ticket... (not meaning YOU Rick... just using you as an example... you probably do or would buy season tickets)

I think appealing to people who only come because they can pay $5 and sit on the 50 (again, not you Rick) is and has been a losing proposition. If we want to have "cheap seats" for the walk-up crowd, make the center sections in the end-zones $5, or grass/turf one "hill" and make lawn seats $2.

I've never been to a visitors stadium and sat in a seat as good as we sell to our visitors. If UH fans want a good seat for the Bayou Bucket, perhaps even THEY will buy a season ticket every other year.

My longtime seats of choice are Upper Deck West on the first few rows from the overhang and between the 30 yard lines.

They better not eliminate these seats which IMO have the best view of line play while still being midfield and near the action - like the balcony in the theatre.

My only complaint was when they not only required Owl Club membership, but specified a level to assign the first two rows -- pretty stupid since there are hundreds of these seats empty each Saturday and anyone can plop down in them.

(11-04-2009 10:27 PM)owlman70 Wrote:  My longtime seats of choice are Upper Deck West on the first few rows from the overhang and between the 30 yard lines.

They better not eliminate these seats which IMO have the best view of line play while still being midfield and near the action - like the balcony in the theatre.

My only complaint was when they not only required Owl Club membership, but specified a level to assign the first two rows -- pretty stupid since there are hundreds of these seats empty each Saturday and anyone can plop down in them.

You would exactly be the target owlman, and the purpose would be to make it so "anyone" COULDN"T plop down in them.

If we only need the first ten rows, then why have the next 20 open?? Going back to Grungy's normal distribution-like representation of football crowds, you would be safe... and in my world, surrounded by people who had to pay up just like you rather than people who bought end-zone cheap seats at the last minute. SOME of that will obviously still happen... but right now, THOUSANDS do it.

I think they're right to require membership for the preferred seats... but there isn't enough of a difference between something somebody ultimately paid $3,000 for and something somebody paid $10 for... literally. (owl club dues and season tickets versus walk-up cheapies)

(11-03-2009 04:36 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  But you do have the LIMIT thousands higher than your actual seats. So that answers your question TCU fan. Which is also ironic after your UNLV game @ home. Funny.

Do you mean the UNLV game at which we drew 33,000 fans (about 442% of our undergraduate enrollment), on the same Saturday that Cougars pulled 20,000 for Southern Miss (74% of the UH undergraduate enrollment)? TCU is not where it needs to be in terms of attendance, but we've never had a crowd that small when we've been ranked in the top 25. Shameful turnout for the Coogs there.

If Amon Carter had the capacity of Robertson, the Frogs would have sold out every game this season. As it is, we're looking at a crowd north of 40,000 (sell out would be 44,000 and is distinctly possible) for Utah next week.

(11-05-2009 08:22 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  

(11-03-2009 04:36 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  But you do have the LIMIT thousands higher than your actual seats. So that answers your question TCU fan. Which is also ironic after your UNLV game @ home. Funny.

Do you mean the UNLV game at which we drew 33,000 fans (about 442% of our undergraduate enrollment), on the same Saturday that Cougars pulled 20,000 for Southern Miss (74% of the UH undergraduate enrollment)? TCU is not where it needs to be in terms of attendance, but we've never had a crowd that small when we've been ranked in the top 25. Shameful turnout for the Coogs there.

If Amon Carter had the capacity of Robertson,

IF IF IF

You didn't draw 33K. You sold 33K in tickets. There was absolutely nobody at that game. And you're ranked in the top 10.

So on that note...Wow, crowd lectures from a TCU fan!!!!!!!

Here's a present for you:



Shameful turnout for the Horned Frogs there!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(11-05-2009 10:46 AM)ShockerBob Wrote:  IF IF IF

You didn't draw 33K. You sold 33K in tickets. There was absolutely nobody at that game. And you're ranked in the top 10.

Shameful turnout for the Horned Frogs there!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me, where were YOU sitting at TCU-UNLV game?

Actually, most parts of Amon Carter Stadium were very full for that game. 33,000 was the reported attendance, and struck many observers as low. The "empty stadium" shot was aimed at the visitors section, which unfortunately had only about 100 UNLV fans. We do deal with a conference in which many of our opponents will never travel very well to Fort Worth. In spite of this, we had 13,000 more fans than UH did, and have an average attendance for the YEAR that is several thousand above Robertson's capacity.

Come back when you consistently have attendance figures that are even EQUAL your undergraduate enrollment

I haven't been to Amon Carter myself, so I don't know much about the layout or how it looks with various sized crowds, but it looked damn good on TV last Saturday, however many people were there.

(11-05-2009 11:18 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  

(11-05-2009 10:46 AM)ShockerBob Wrote:  IF IF IF

You didn't draw 33K. You sold 33K in tickets. There was absolutely nobody at that game. And you're ranked in the top 10.

Shameful turnout for the Horned Frogs there!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me, where were YOU sitting at TCU-UNLV game?

Actually, most parts of Amon Carter Stadium were very full for that game. 33,000 was the reported attendance, and struck many observers as low. The "empty stadium" shot was aimed at the visitors section, which unfortunately had only about 100 UNLV fans. We do deal with a conference in which many of our opponents will never travel very well to Fort Worth. In spite of this, we had 13,000 more fans than UH did, and have an average attendance for the YEAR that is several thousand above Robertson's capacity.

Come back when you consistently have attendance figures that are even EQUAL your undergraduate enrollment

They showed the crowd and there was nobody there. It was even mentioned on SportsCenter (well..that's not saying much).

But...

Oh wow!! Now we have to match our undergrad enrollment! That just makes you just so much better now does it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cookies for you TCU fan:



Even though your attendance is still a joke!:

(11-05-2009 11:36 AM)ShockerBob Wrote:  They showed the crowd and there was nobody there. It was even mentioned on SportsCenter (well..that's not saying much).

But...

Oh wow!! Now we have to match our undergrad enrollment! That just makes you just so much better now does it!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, they showed one part of the stadium that suited their point, but whatever.

Enjoy those boisterous crowds at the UH games.

(11-05-2009 11:40 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  Enjoy those boisterous crowds at the UH games.

Enjoy those MONSTROUS ones at TCU as well

(11-05-2009 11:36 AM)ShockerBob Wrote:  They showed the crowd and there was nobody there. It was even mentioned on SportsCenter (well..that's not saying much).

But...

Oh wow!! Now we have to match our undergrad enrollment! That just makes you just so much better now does it!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ESPN shot showed the upper corners past the 10 yards line and they were empty. Just like the Robertson endzones for UH against USM. Just like the upper and lower decks on the east and west sides of the stadium at Rice games.

I like this only-have-to-meet-your-undergrad-enrollment trick. We're over 400% of that for our season average, so our fan support for an 0-8 team is a good as TCU's for an 8-0 team.

Seems like e have a crowd problem on the Parliament as well, when Horned Frogs and Coogs are arguing about attendance at their Eagle, Mustang, and Ute games on the Owl board.

Stay tuned for the Frog/Cougar SAT debate.

And the Frog/Coog Tier I school debate. Who's bringing the popcorn?

(11-05-2009 01:25 PM)Fiftysix Fortytwo Wrote:  And the Frog/Coog Tier I school debate. Who's bringing the popcorn?

Or more properly the No-Doz.

Dammit! Now I want popcorn.