Linky

28 men from Western New York play D-I hockey. I don't know how many play FBS football, but I bet it's nowhere near 28 (not counting walk-ons). Buffalo also produced the #1 overall pick in the last NHL draft.

This area also produces a lot of lacrosse players. It's crazy that UB doesn't compete in either sport.

One statement: TITLE 9

utpotts Wrote:One statement: TITLE 9

One statement:

Sure, bring 'em back. BG always played SUNY-Buffalo as a tune-up back in the day and usually pummeled them about 12-0 every year.

zibby Wrote:

utpotts Wrote:One statement: TITLE 9

One statement:

Zibby convinced me.

Of course, this is a long-standing statement!

It wouldn't bother me if the MAC replaced baseball with hockey as one of its core sports. I don't know if the NCAA requires us to have baseball, but college hockey is more popular in the MAC's footprint than college baseball. I believe MAC hockey would be the best in the country - even better than CCHA.

You'd have a hard time convincing Miami to leave CCHA, I think.

OZoner Wrote:You'd have a hard time convincing Miami to leave CCHA, I think.

...and Bowling Green and Western Michigan

RocketJeff Wrote:I believe MAC hockey would be the best in the country - even better than CCHA.

Yyyyyyyyeeeeeeea-no. I beg to differ. There are some long standing rivalries BG has with CCHA members - primary among them are the Weasels and Egg Suckers. As much as I believe BG belongs in the MAC for all sports, I believe just as strongly in BG's affiliation with the CCHA.

BG has been a member since the charter year and should remain.

RocketJeff Wrote:I believe MAC hockey would be the best in the country - even better than CCHA.

Dude, you need to do a little research. You don't leave a conference that includes Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State in ANY sport.

zibby Wrote:It's crazy that UB doesn't compete in either sport.

Yup, like you said especially in regards to your location in a hockey and lacrosse hotbed.

Lacrosse is slowly gaining ground across the midwest as well. There are quite a few HS lacrosse teams as far north as Minneapolis, and Chicago has well established HS teams and feeder leagues.

Wouldn't it be farsighted for the MAC to aggressively pursue starting men's and women's lacrosse programs and make them the best in the Midwest? To have MAC lacrosse consistently compete at the top levels of the sport?

Lacrosse is coming west, and sooner than later all the Big Ten teams etc will have varsity teams, and there the MAC will be, taking all the has-beens and second rounders...... again. If we've even taken a step towards varsity lacrosse.

Just once I want the MAC to be cutting edge and the first in town to see success. Establish a program that doesn't always lose to bigger programs.

One can dream....

RocketJeff Wrote:It wouldn't bother me if the MAC replaced baseball with hockey as one of its core sports. I don't know if the NCAA requires us to have baseball, but college hockey is more popular in the MAC's footprint than college baseball.

Does Toledo have a club hockey team? I think I remember that they used to at some point in the past. When I used to live up in Sylvania, I lived across the street from Tam O Shanter. With all the hockey going on there, you'd think Toledo would be able to field a decent team if they put any effort into it.

That said, half of the MAC doesn't even field men's soccer teams, which I would think should be a lot cheaper to facilitate than a hockey team.

bg816 Wrote:

OZoner Wrote:You'd have a hard time convincing Miami to leave CCHA, I think.

...and Bowling Green and Western Michigan

Would all 3 schools be willing to drop out of the MAC in order to remain in the CCHA?

RocketJeff Wrote:

bg816 Wrote:

OZoner Wrote:You'd have a hard time convincing Miami to leave CCHA, I think.

...and Bowling Green and Western Michigan

Would all 3 schools be willing to drop out of the MAC in order to remain in the CCHA?

Dude, seriously. You need to quit while you are behind!

RocketJeff Wrote:

bg816 Wrote:

OZoner Wrote:You'd have a hard time convincing Miami to leave CCHA, I think.

...and Bowling Green and Western Michigan

Would all 3 schools be willing to drop out of the MAC in order to remain in the CCHA?

That ultimatum is stupid. Name me 3 additional MAC schools that would reasonably be able to afford (economically and in terms of quality of play) a D1 hockey team? Kent couldn't. Most schools don't have close to sufficient facilities, and hockey is VERY expensive (Only behind football at BG in expenses). To me, MAC hockey just wouldn't make sense.

Chain successfully pulled.

axeme Wrote:Chain successfully pulled.

Actually, I'm a bit disappointed that a certain OU fan hasn't suggested inviting NDU, OSU, and MSU to join the MAC for hockey-only.

RocketJeff Wrote:

axeme Wrote:Chain successfully pulled.

Actually, I'm a bit disappointed that a certain OU fan hasn't suggested inviting NDU, OSU, and MSU to join the MAC for hockey-only.

North Dakota U, Oregon St., & Miss St.? That would be consistent.

RocketJeff Wrote:

bg816 Wrote:

OZoner Wrote:You'd have a hard time convincing Miami to leave CCHA, I think.

...and Bowling Green and Western Michigan

Would all 3 schools be willing to drop out of the MAC in order to remain in the CCHA?

I can speak for the Miami perspective when I say YES. Miami is a national contender in Hockey (#2 currently #1 at times this year). We have a fantastic new rink. We have high profile recruits. We are not leaving the CCHA anytime soon. The MAC however we could leave as far as I am concerned.

And where exactly would you go? Independent?

28 men from Western New York play D-I hockey. I don't know how many play FBS football, but I bet it's nowhere near 28 (not counting walk-ons). Buffalo also produced the #1 overall pick in the last NHL draft.

This area also produces a lot of lacrosse players. It's crazy that UB doesn't compete in either sport.


I'd rather have the MAC drop Baseball and institute Lacrosse as a conference sport. The conference is at a geographical disadvantage and the traveling costs to play early season games in FL&TX have to be pricey.
Lacrosse is growing rapidly in the IHSA and Chicago now has both outdoor and indoor professional teams. The ability to tailgate would increase the crowds and it would be a difference maker for the MAC in that no existing all sports conference outside the eastern seaboard plays Lacrosse.

Erie CC has Hockey and UB doesn't that is weird.

Wouldn't it be farsighted for the MAC to aggressively pursue starting men's and women's lacrosse programs and make them the best in the Midwest? To have MAC lacrosse consistently compete at the top levels of the sport?

Lacrosse is coming west, and sooner than later all the Big Ten teams etc will have varsity teams, and there the MAC will be, taking all the has-beens and second rounders...... again. If we've even taken a step towards varsity lacrosse.

Just once I want the MAC to be cutting edge and the first in town to see success. Establish a program that doesn't always lose to bigger programs.

One can dream....


The MAC will never be more than an afterthought in College Baseball, the conference would have the ability to carve out an identity in Lacrosse. Plus with tailgaiting available, the crowds should be good.

kamuohio Wrote:I can speak for the Miami perspective when I say YES. Miami is a national contender in Hockey (#2 currently #1 at times this year). We have a fantastic new rink. We have high profile recruits. We are not leaving the CCHA anytime soon. The MAC however we could leave as far as I am concerned.

On hockey forums, discussions on the Big Ten sponsoring hockey is nearly forboten, but the demand for programming from the Big Ten Network may force the issue behind the scenes.

Quote:The (Bemidji St) President did say there is some turmoil in the WCHA as apparently the BIG 10 NETWORK has offered BIG MONEY to the BIG 10 schools with Div 1 Hockey programs (including Wisconsin and Minnesota) for television rights...which may lead to them leaving the WCHA which could be why the WCHA is listening to Bemidji State.

If Mich, MSU, OSU, and possibly Notre Dame left the CCHA for a BTHC, Miami, BG, and W Mich programs would suffer. Getting hockey added at Buffalo, or resurrected at OU or Kent St (doubtful) , and getting an affiliate like Syracuse (they're starting women's hockey - men's is rumored) could allow the MAC to sponsor hockey. The GLIAC schools could then have their own DI league.

In would seem in the MAC's best interest to drop baseball as a core sport requirement.

onlinepole Wrote:Wouldn't it be farsighted for the MAC to aggressively pursue starting men's and women's lacrosse programs and make them the best in the Midwest? To have MAC lacrosse consistently compete at the top levels of the sport?

Lacrosse is coming west, and sooner than later all the Big Ten teams etc will have varsity teams, and there the MAC will be, taking all the has-beens and second rounders...... again. If we've even taken a step towards varsity lacrosse.

Just once I want the MAC to be cutting edge and the first in town to see success. Establish a program that doesn't always lose to bigger programs.

One can dream....


The MAC will never be more than an afterthought in College Baseball, the conference would have the ability to carve out an identity in Lacrosse. Plus with tailgaiting available, the crowds should be good.

Trends support MAC LAX

Quote:In 2007 there were a recorded number of 2612 Boy’s High School Lacrosse Programs across the country. That is more than double the amount that existed in 2000 and equates to about 190 new programs a year in that time frame! All this in only 7 years! Below is a map showing the locations of the 2007 programs across the country. Pay close attention to comparing maps in the states of California, Florida, Colorado, Utah, Washington, Oregon, Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, Minnesota, and Illinois.

High School Lacrosse in 2000

High School Lacrosse in 2007

High school lacrosse has exploded in NE & Central Ohio. It is in it's infancy with few youth programs, but it is growing. The skill level is nowhere near the Northeast, but will improve. It's a great spectator sport with a lot of scoring. It will grow.

It would be nice to see the MAC embrace it before the Big 10, but doubt it due to cost and Title IX.

Aside from the fact that Jim Brown was an awesome lacrosse player, I have zero interest in the sport. Bleh.

So you need to have interest in a sport for it to be worth considering?

Not at all what he said. He simply said that Lacrosse isn't his thing. Basketball isn't my thing, hockey is. We all have our interests in sports.

Now, this talk of the Big 10 having it's own hockey conference has been discussed at great lengths for a long time. Personally, I think the B10 would be best served staying out of hockey. They have no administrative experience in the sport, and would only be able to fill 5 teams off the bat (Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State). Notre Dame has no interest in getting involved with the Big 10. An issue does arrive with the CHA most likely dissolving after this year, but I don't think there's a reason to start another hockey conference when the sport is losing teams, not gaining.

In would seem in the MAC's best interest to drop baseball as a core sport requirement.


Alot of traveling and scholarships tied up in what for this region is a non revenue sport. Wisconsin, Iowa St and Colorado which have far larger athletic budgets than MAC programs have recognized reality and don't have college baseball teams. Too bad not every MAC program has a Ralph Engelstaad Foundation supporting them or a city like Grand Forks willing to raise it's sales tax rate to fund an indoor football stadium/convention center. Wonder what sports facility UND will add next?

While hockey would be cost prohibitive for MAC programs to add, Lacrosse has real potential as a revenue producing sport.

Sounds exactly about what was said about soccer 20-30 years ago and then a bunch of universities jumped on the bandwagon. They have since jumped off. Mens soccer in the MAC is down to its last few teams with the liklihood that 1 or 2 will drop sometime in the next decade and almost no chance that any will add.
I don't see the MAC jumping in on any new sports anytime soon as most schools are more in a state of contractation than expansion, and the baseball programs are well established. At KSU, the program is almost, if not all now, fully endowed. We are ranked going into this season, have had two ranked recruiting classes in a row, and keep cranking out the pros. We aren't dropping baseball, and I know some other MAC schools with deep traditions of hardball who aren't either: BSU, Miami, the Michigans,...

BGDrew Wrote:Personally, I think the B10 would be best served staying out of hockey. They have no administrative experience in the sport,

Yes, but they have this new network that has airtime it needs to fill and I'm sure they think hockey would get more eyeballs than women's basketball.

I'm not a college hockey expert, but I've been reading a lot of blogs and message boards and there's a lot of people who think the biggest problem with college hockey is that there aren't enough conferences.

CCHA has 12 teams, WCHA has 10. They've turned down Wayne State (who's responded by announcing they're dropping hockey) and Bemidji State (who's responded by announcing they may have to drop hockey). Schools dropping hockey isn't good for anybody.

Those numbers would be 8 and 8 if the five Big 11 teams and Notre Dame formed a hockey conference, giving the other conferences room to add other teams.

axeme Wrote:Sounds exactly about what was said about soccer 20-30 years ago and then a bunch of universities jumped on the bandwagon. They have since jumped off. Mens soccer in the MAC is down to its last few teams with the liklihood that 1 or 2 will drop sometime in the next decade and almost no chance that any will add.

Soccer never developed a Final Four like lacrosse already has. Even now, the NCAA Men's soccer finals attracts maybe 5000(?) people. Lacrosse has shown it can attract 50,000 and it has ESPN's interest.

Quote:I don't see the MAC jumping in on any new sports anytime soon as most schools are more in a state of contractation than expansion, and the baseball programs are well established. At KSU, the program is almost, if not all now, fully endowed. We are ranked going into this season, have had two ranked recruiting classes in a row, and keep cranking out the pros. We aren't dropping baseball, and I know some other MAC schools with deep traditions of hardball who aren't either: BSU, Miami, the Michigans,...

Schools with a tradition shouldn't drop baseball. But is it really in the best interest of the MAC to require baseball?

zibby Wrote:CCHA has 12 teams, WCHA has 10. They've turned down Wayne State (who's responded by announcing they're dropping hockey) and Bemidji State (who's responded by announcing they may have to drop hockey). Schools dropping hockey isn't good for anybody.

Those numbers would be 8 and 8 if the five Big 11 teams and Notre Dame formed a hockey conference, giving the other conferences room to add other teams.

Some believe Penn State and possibly Illinois would add hockey if money from the Big Ten Network were sufficiently enticing. As posted earlier, the WCHA did agree to a scheduling agreement with Bemidji State to help keep the program alive - and out of concern that Minnie and Wisco could leave.

With the NCAA DII allowing in Canadian schools, University of British Columbia and Alberta are eyeing DI hockey after the 2011 moratorium is lifted on any DI move-ups. That would open up the possiblity of a true western conference with the Alaska schools and some other possibilities (like Eastern Washington near Spokane).

NoDak Wrote:Schools with a tradition shouldn't drop baseball. But is it really in the best interest of the MAC to require baseball?

I don't think it is in the best interest of the MAC to fragment their spring sports. It is in the best interest of the conference to require one mens sports of all schools. I don't see lacrosse being the prime spring mens sport for more than 4-5 schools, if that many. I could see 2-3 embracing it fully, and maybe their raising enough interest in 3-4 other schools picking it up in the next decade. That's a pretty long-term forecast, though.

What it would need would be local interest and private funding at each U. if it is going to get off the ground. With current funding situations, there is almost no way MAC athletic departments can intitiate this with current money. There's the big question: is there local money to do this? I could see it happening at Buffalo, but beyond that, I don't know where else. Actually, it could be possible at KSU, as our athletic funding of non-revenue sports has become increasingly private, and if NE Ohio becomes a lacrosse hotbed in high schools, we would be well situated. But it would never supplant baseball.

onlinepole Wrote:Too bad not every MAC program has a Ralph Engelstaad Foundation supporting them or a city like Grand Forks willing to raise it's sales tax rate to fund an indoor football stadium/convention center. Wonder what sports facility UND will add next?

Not to hijack this thread, but the next UND facility supposedly will be an indoor practice facility (shown in foreground).


Longer-term, there's even plans for a retractable-roof stadium in the event UND moves to the FB subdivision. Of course, this would depend on major donations, but UND is fortunate to have some very giving (and wealthy) alumni.

zibby Wrote:Yes, but they have this new network that has airtime it needs to fill and I'm sure they think hockey would get more eyeballs than women's basketball.

I'm not a college hockey expert, but I've been reading a lot of blogs and message boards and there's a lot of people who think the biggest problem with college hockey is that there aren't enough conferences.

CCHA has 12 teams, WCHA has 10. They've turned down Wayne State (who's responded by announcing they're dropping hockey) and Bemidji State (who's responded by announcing they may have to drop hockey). Schools dropping hockey isn't good for anybody.

Those numbers would be 8 and 8 if the five Big 11 teams and Notre Dame formed a hockey conference, giving the other conferences room to add other teams.

I think they started broadcasting hockey this year on BTN and will have more games next year, but the five hockey-playing Big Ten teams did not give their complete rights over to the BTN. FSN Detroit and FSN North will still have games involving four of those teams and whomever OSU goes through will have games as well.

Wasn't Niagara trying to get into Atlantic Hockey? My alma mater, Canisius, is already there. CHA only has five teams and would be down to four if Bemidji indeed dropped hockey.

Wouldn't Buffalo be part of the ECAC, though with the likes of BC and BU?

mattsarz Wrote:Wasn't Niagara trying to get into Atlantic Hockey?

They were trying to get into ECAC Hockey League, but got passed over. They probably could get into Atlantic Hockey if they wanted to. But Atlantic Hockey has a scholarship limit. I believe it's 17 for everyone else and 11 for Atlantic Hockey. But the consensus of what I've been reading seems to be that they'll have no choice but to go there.

EMUTRACK1574 Wrote:Wouldn't Buffalo be part of the ECAC, though with the likes of BC and BU?

BC and BU are in Hockey East, which is an all-New England conference. The next conference to the west is ECAC, which is all private schools (Ivy League and Clarkson, St. Lawrence, Colgate, etc.).

If UB had hockey, the best fit would be CCHA.

Then maybe Alaska-Fairbanks will move to the WCHA. I have no clue why they are in the CCHA.

NoDak Wrote:With the NCAA DII allowing in Canadian schools, University of British Columbia and Alberta are eyeing DI hockey after the 2011 moratorium is lifted on any DI move-ups. That would open up the possiblity of a true western conference with the Alaska schools and some other possibilities (like Eastern Washington near Spokane).

I doubt you see U of BC and U of Alberta, these schools field teams made up of guys that are usually 24+ (and some guys 28 years old), played major junior in Canada (receive stipends) or even played minor league hockey in the states and then gave it up to go back to college where they can play for up to 5 seasons. Being an amateur in Canada means you are not getting paid this year, being an amateur as far as the NCAA goes means you never took a dime from anybody for anything.

EMUTRACK1574 Wrote:Then maybe Alaska-Fairbanks will move to the WCHA. I have no clue why they are in the CCHA.

There would then be two Alaska teams in the WCHA which would make travel very cost prohibitive for most of the schools in the conference.

Sorry, Wisconsin and Minnesota are very storied programs. I don't see the WCHA giving them up easily - same goes for the Weasels and Egg Suckers in the CCHA. I also don't see OSU wanting to get spanked by the above four teams regularly. It would be a very tough conference but I believe that may be a reason the aforementioned teams would wish to avoid such a conference alignment for hockey.

Pardon my intrusion into this thread...but I am a big College Hockey fan. When I was growing up my dad used to take me 2-5 Miami games a year. (grew up in Germantown)

Couldn't the B10 add Miami, BG, and WMU as associate members like the MAC did with UK soccer?

That would give them 8 teams for a full conference. The MAC based teams would also benefit from the added $$$ and exposure.

Sounds workable to me.

TomorrowHerd Wrote:Couldn't the B10 add Miami, BG, and WMU as associate members like the MAC did with UK soccer?

That would give them 8 teams for a full conference. The MAC based teams would also benefit from the added $$$ and exposure.

Sounds workable to me.

With five current Big 10 teams, they'd probably need at least three more (but possibly only one more) to make a Big10 hockey league. With Miami's new rink (although its small), Miami is a possible associate member, especially with its strong academics. WMU and BGU are possible as well. Notre Dame could possibly be on the outside looking in, as the Big Ten may not want to do them any favors unless they totally join in all sports. A new Big 10 hockey school (Penn State), or other higher tier schools that could add hockey as associate members (like Iowa State, Syracuse, or DePaul - not saying any of those are likely - but in the past those schools have been considered hockey candidates). At North Dakota, we would like to think that we would get consideration - in spite of our small media market - because we sellout our rink (11,400 / game - 2nd only to Wisconsin in average), our historic rivalries with Michigan and MSU (pre-CCHA) and with Wisco and Minnesota (UND's OT winning goal against the Gophers was the #1 play on SportsCenter last night), our seven national championships, and we are nearly a top 100 research university. Denver - with their great rink, history, academics, and media market -may also be possible but is a geographical stretch. Nebraska-Omaha has a huge rink and good crowds, but lacks history and is basically a commuter school.

zibby Wrote:Linky

28 men from Western New York play D-I hockey. I don't know how many play FBS football, but I bet it's nowhere near 28 (not counting walk-ons). Buffalo also produced the #1 overall pick in the last NHL draft.

This area also produces a lot of lacrosse players. It's crazy that UB doesn't compete in either sport.

NY State is 3rd in the number of American NHL players produced, but yet no NY FBS school like Buffalo or Syracuse sponsors the sport?

[/quote]

NY State is 3rd in the number of American NHL players produced, but yet no NY FBS school like Buffalo or Syracuse sponsors the sport?


[/quote]

It's absurd that UB or SU does not play hockey but New York State is well represented in D1 hockey. In addition to the two Buffalo area schools (Canisius & Niagara) there's Cornell, RIT, Clarkson, St. Lawrence and I'm sure others that are not on the top of my head.

Another Western New York kid is picked in the first round of the NHL draft: Linky

I have no idea who was the last guy from around here drafted in the first round by the NFL. We might have to go all the way back to Shane Conlan.

Didn't UB do something called the Corrigan Report a couple years ago to address the athletics situation at UB? I think it recommended Lacrosse and/or ice hockey. Not sure what exactly the purpose was of that report?