I heard Jim Phillips interview yesterday how we recruit regionally because we are a regional university. This is a huge mistake and Appalachian State University proved that yesterday.

If you want to be extremely successful you can recruit regionally if you region is very talented. Well the midwest is not lucrative in talent. If you look at Appalachian State's roster they recruit regionally as well but their region is the Southeast which is extremely talented.

In my opinion as long as NIU continues to insist on recruiting regionally and does not go out to heavily recruit the Southeast, Texas, and even the West Coast we will continue to have a few good years and many many more mediocre to bad years.

I do not know how many of you saw the Appalachian State vs Michigan game yesterday but the bottomline was Appalachian State had superior athletes. Their team speed was absolutely unbelievable. To me it proves the point that while there are many big schools with the SEC and ACC in the area, Appalachian State did a great job of recruiting top notch athletes that the SEC and ACC overlooked. As I have stated before the 2nd and 3rd Tier players in regions such as the southeast are far far superior to the athletes NIU gets in the Midwest.

I don't think that you should compare our recruiting situation from App State. They are a Div 1-AA school and we are a lower tier Div 1 school. We cannot compete with the Michigans, Notre Dames, all the Big 10 schools that recruit nationally. We have to rely on projects and second tier players. But, Div-1AA schools usually get transfers from these big tier schools, because they end up getting lost in the numbers game and never play. They can transfer to 1-AA and play IMMEDIATELY and not have to sit out. Thus, a lot of 1-AA schools get some of these blue chip recruits, just a few years later. If these kids were to transfer to our school, they would have to sit out a year.

This comes down to a kid making the right decision the first time. It's not all glory to be picked by a BCS school, you are constantly competing to keep your scholarship. I think Joe has done a great job at selling this point for NIU, that players will be able to play all 4 years.

OlliesCustard Wrote:I don't think that you should compare our recruiting situation from App State. They are a Div 1-AA school and we are a lower tier Div 1 school. We cannot compete with the Michigans, Notre Dames, all the Big 10 schools that recruit nationally. We have to rely on projects and second tier players. But, Div-1AA schools usually get transfers from these big tier schools, because they end up getting lost in the numbers game and never play. They can transfer to 1-AA and play IMMEDIATELY and not have to sit out. Thus, a lot of 1-AA schools get some of these blue chip recruits, just a few years later. If these kids were to transfer to our school, they would have to sit out a year.

This comes down to a kid making the right decision the first time. It's not all glory to be picked by a BCS school, you are constantly competing to keep your scholarship. I think Joe has done a great job at selling this point for NIU, that players will be able to play all 4 years.

I agree with you if the goal of NIU is to be Mediocre with a eye opening winning season once in a while. We have not had an eye opening win in a long time and still no MAC championships.

If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

+1

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

84, I agree with your point to an extent. my point is that the 2nd and 3rd tier talent we get is not comparable to the 2nd and 3rd tier talent in the Southeast or other hotbed. Again, just my opinion but I think it will play out this year and next. I think we have a bad year this year and not much better next year even though our team will have more seniors.

COHUSKIE Wrote:

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

84, I agree with your point to an extent. my point is that the 2nd and 3rd tier talent we get is not comparable to the 2nd and 3rd tier talent in the Southeast or other hotbed. Again, just my opinion but I think it will play out this year and next. I think we have a bad year this year and not much better next year even though our team will have more seniors.

No way. I seriously believe NIU is a top 25 team next season.

MaddDawgz02 Wrote:

COHUSKIE Wrote:

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

84, I agree with your point to an extent. my point is that the 2nd and 3rd tier talent we get is not comparable to the 2nd and 3rd tier talent in the Southeast or other hotbed. Again, just my opinion but I think it will play out this year and next. I think we have a bad year this year and not much better next year even though our team will have more seniors.

No way. I seriously believe NIU is a top 25 team next season.

I hope you are right but I just do not see it. What is going to change so drastically in the offense in one year that would allow us to achieve that in your opinion? I did not see a passing game or running game that showed any signs of hope?

MaddDawgz02 Wrote:

COHUSKIE Wrote:

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

84, I agree with your point to an extent. my point is that the 2nd and 3rd tier talent we get is not comparable to the 2nd and 3rd tier talent in the Southeast or other hotbed. Again, just my opinion but I think it will play out this year and next. I think we have a bad year this year and not much better next year even though our team will have more seniors.

No way. I seriously believe NIU is a top 25 team next season.

If the defense continues to gel, you never know. As long as you have a good defense, you give your team a chance to be in every single game. I think next year will be NIU's best chance to do anything substantial, which is why I would be very surprised to see Novak leave after this season. The team right now is led by a ton of juniors, so if they can continue to mature for another season, then who knows? Top 25 might be a reach, but they should be pretty good next year.

Either way we put out a good (and getting better I believe) product on the field by getting a mojority of regional players from Illinois, Iowa and Wisconsin. That includes great coaching and development. NIU is a regional school, and a good one at that.

TCU recruits regionally and does fine.

We have had a few key recruits from outside the region pan out like Sam Hurd.

Several from FLA & CAL have not for various reasons.

seems like WMU has had a FLA connection on their roster.

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

Well said...How many truly gifted 3 and 4 star prospect in the south would pick NIU over a BCS school in their region. NONE... We are what we are and until we can consistently compete with BCS schools on the field we will need to continue to recruit regionally. We have had success with some diamonds in the rough like Sam Hurd from the state of Texas but these are few and far between.

EXACTLY.

Some here continue to operate on delusions of grandeur. Dreams, ambition and goals are important but it's also necessary to deal in the present as well.

Do we need to say once more it's all about the money?

NIUbro Wrote:

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

Well said...How many truly gifted 3 and 4 star prospect in the south would pick NIU over a BCS school in their region. NONE... We are what we are and until we can consistently compete with BCS schools on the field we will need to continue to recruit regionally. We have had success with some diamonds in the rough like Sam Hurd from the state of Texas but these are few and far between.

And this goes along with my initial point with the D-1AA schools get these former 3, 4 star players who get caught in a numbers game at a BCS school, because they don't have to sit out a year to play. That's why Div 1AA schools like Appalachian St can beat a Michigan.

tcufrog86 Wrote:TCU recruits regionally and does fine.

UH yeah, in Texas. Many can recruit regionally in Texas and do just fine. Last I saw your regional recruits beat the crap out of our regional recruits 37 - 7. and really 37 - 0 taking away the blocked punt late. You can recruit regionally if you have a rich talent base. Texas has it, the midwest does not once you get by the BCS type recruits.

TCU dominating us has nothing to do with the fact we recruited regionally. We we're recruiting regionally when we beat Maryland, Alabama, ISU, etc.. in 2003, it didn't seem to hurt us then. TCU is up, we were down, just what happens sometimes. In a couple years we might crush TCU by 30 when we are up and they are down. I really just don't think you seem to understand the concept that it's not possible for all but the top schools in the nation to just go out and get recruits from all over the country. It's simply not feasible for the majority of universities, NIU, Iowa, Washington, Wisconsin, Rutgers, any of these big time schools you want us to be like, they are also recruiting regionally. Right now our region is down, and others are up, get over it.

remember, tho, the few and far inbetween can be difference makers- especially signing any hidden gems/late bloomers at skill positions

the last three posts have been right on the button. we here at NIU really get the best out of our gems, and the regional recruits at Texas are far better then the recruits at NIU. I think I read in my ESPN magazine today that the #1 QB recruit out of Texas just switched signings from Texas to North Texas. thats great for them, and I hope a trend that forms here soon.

Also realize that "regionally" here is misleading.

TCU's QB (a great kid from our high school) lives over 300 miles away from TCU. However, that is easily still Texas. TCU's region, is all of Texas (plus neighboring Oklahoma) which is an area that would encompass most of the midwest. NIU recruiting in Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Kentucky, Ohio, and Michigan would compare to the area that TCU can easily recruit in state.

NIU can live well by recruiting regionally, but we have to expand our region outwards of Chicago and Wisconsin.

houstonhuskie Wrote:Also realize that "regionally" here is misleading.

TCU's QB (a great kid from our high school) lives over 300 miles away from TCU. However, that is easily still Texas. TCU's region, is all of Texas (plus neighboring Oklahoma) which is an area that would encompass most of the midwest. NIU recruiting in Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Kentucky, Ohio, and Michigan would compare to the area that TCU can easily recruit in state.

NIU can live well by recruiting regionally, but we have to expand our region outwards of Chicago and Wisconsin.

NIU can live well but will be mediocre most of the time and good once in awhile. If that is what the goal is we can all live with it. But if you look at CFB the powers are consistently in The Southeast, Texas or the West Coast. Gotta go where the fruit is ripe, not where you will get a ripe fruit once in awhile. IMO

We have to hope that we have some grade challenged prospects who can make it and also people like Doug Free who can be groomed into a star that other BCS programs overlook. In no way would us recruiting nationally help us overcome the perceptions of the student athletes (i.e. they want a chance to recruited to the big show of a BCS school to validate their athletic prowess. I agree we should look for the occasional Sam Hurd or Evans Adonis, but I would not waste the money when the return on that investment is going to be extraordinarily low.

COHUSKIE Wrote:

houstonhuskie Wrote:Also realize that "regionally" here is misleading.

TCU's QB (a great kid from our high school) lives over 300 miles away from TCU. However, that is easily still Texas. TCU's region, is all of Texas (plus neighboring Oklahoma) which is an area that would encompass most of the midwest. NIU recruiting in Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Kentucky, Ohio, and Michigan would compare to the area that TCU can easily recruit in state.

NIU can live well by recruiting regionally, but we have to expand our region outwards of Chicago and Wisconsin.

NIU can live well but will be mediocre most of the time and good once in awhile. If that is what the goal is we can all live with it. But if you look at CFB the powers are consistently in The Southeast, Texas or the West Coast. Gotta go where the fruit is ripe, not where you will get a ripe fruit once in awhile. IMO

If we do as you suggest, and hit the southeast, for instance, hard, who are we going to beat for recruits? A kid who is a second-tier player in North Carolina is more likely to commit to 1AA Appalachian St than he is to NIU. Why? it's cold here. You may scoff, but we all know that the coldest place on earth is Annie Glidden Rd in January. A kid from the Carolinas isn't likely to bite down on his lip, make jokes about Dr Zhivago, and deal with it. He's gonna call momma and tell her he's coming home and heading to Georgia Southern.

The refusal to recruit locally during the Sadler era led to the losing streak and the worst decade of football in NIU's history. Anyone remember all those maneaters we got from Canada in those years? Sadler was convinced we couldn't recruit the Chicago area and never even bothered. He went to Florida, Canada, and the Juco route in the '90s. It was an abject failure. I will take our current frustration about not getting over the hump compared to the black hole that was NIU football for 10 years while we were recruiting nationally, heck, internationally.

you made several good and right on comments.

COHUSKIE Wrote:I heard Jim Phillips interview yesterday how we recruit regionally because we are a regional university. This is a huge mistake and Appalachian State University proved that yesterday.

If you want to be extremely successful you can recruit regionally if you region is very talented. Well the midwest is not lucrative in talent. If you look at Appalachian State's roster they recruit regionally as well but their region is the Southeast which is extremely talented.

In my opinion as long as NIU continues to insist on recruiting regionally and does not go out to heavily recruit the Southeast, Texas, and even the West Coast we will continue to have a few good years and many many more mediocre to bad years.

I do not know how many of you saw the Appalachian State vs Michigan game yesterday but the bottomline was Appalachian State had superior athletes. Their team speed was absolutely unbelievable. To me it proves the point that while there are many big schools with the SEC and ACC in the area, Appalachian State did a great job of recruiting top notch athletes that the SEC and ACC overlooked. As I have stated before the 2nd and 3rd Tier players in regions such as the southeast are far far superior to the athletes NIU gets in the Midwest.

Oh my God!! Please tell me you're kidding. App St had superior athletes to Michigan??? What kind of Kool-Aid are you drinking?

Come on. This was the upset of the century and you're trying to pin our recruiting problems on it. That's just silly. Every school in America tries to get overlooked talent, we won't be trying something secretive by doing it.

I think Sam Hurd would beg to differ that we only recruit regionally.

Appalachian State DOES have alot of skilled athletes.

Perhaps you missed seeing them when they blew past Mich.

Speed kills and they proved it.

Milhouse Wrote:the last three posts have been right on the button. we here at NIU really get the best out of our gems, and the regional recruits at Texas are far better then the recruits at NIU. I think I read in my ESPN magazine today that the #1 QB recruit out of Texas just switched signings from Texas to North Texas. thats great for them, and I hope a trend that forms here soon.

The kid is Riley Dodge, a 3-star athlete out of Southlake (Carroll). The kid's dad is the head coach at North Texas and he wasn't recruited by Texas to play QB. The kid admitted that he wanted a chance to play QB and play early, something that wasn't going to happen at Texas.

In addition, there were other family health related issues that made UNT a better location for the kid. A nice pickup for UNT, but it took some outside influences for it to happen.

FWIW, I don't see the point in NIU recruiting nationally, I don't think they'll really be able to pull enough kids to make it worth the time/effort. Far too many similar-level programs exist between DeKalb, IL and Florida/Texas/the South. Find the kids in Illinois and Midwest right after the Big Ten tier kids and keep them in the area. You can be successful in the MAC with those kids.

UIHuskie Wrote:The kid is Riley Dodge, a 3-star athlete out of Southlake (Carroll). The kid's dad is the head coach at North Texas and he wasn't recruited by Texas to play QB. The kid admitted that he wanted a chance to play QB and play early, something that wasn't going to happen at Texas.

This is what we need to do if we want to get better players. We need to find the players in this region that are good enough to play in the BCS conferences, but aren't going to get to play at their preferred position. We need to find these kids and give them a chance to play their number one position.

niusfactuary Wrote:This is what we need to do if we want to get better players. We need to find the players in this region that are good enough to play in the BCS conferences, but aren't going to get to play at their preferred position. We need to find these kids and give them a chance to play their number one position.

Part of the issue with that is other BCS schools will tend to tell the kid what he wants to hear, even if the kid's first choice won't. After reading the article on the kid, I think it's fairly evident he wanted to play for his Dad and be closer to his family given the health situation of a relative. The playing time issue and chance to play QB probably cemented it for him.

Also, if a kid really wants to play a position but schools aren't recruiting him to play it, then is that really the type of kid you want at that position? For instance, Texas obviously thought this kid wasn't a BCS-level QB, and it's possible other BCS schools felt the same way (he's only 6-0, for one thing). Well, then if he's not, and he's just an average mid-major QB at North Texas, why not just try and find a kid that's as good and not have to fight with BCS schools with him?

That's a hypothetical (obviously, I've never seen the kid play), but battling BCS schools for recruits is awfully tough to do.

niusfactuary Wrote:

UIHuskie Wrote:The kid is Riley Dodge, a 3-star athlete out of Southlake (Carroll). The kid's dad is the head coach at North Texas and he wasn't recruited by Texas to play QB. The kid admitted that he wanted a chance to play QB and play early, something that wasn't going to happen at Texas.

This is what we need to do if we want to get better players. We need to find the players in this region that are good enough to play in the BCS conferences, but aren't going to get to play at their preferred position. We need to find these kids and give them a chance to play their number one position.

I believe Cas Prime was recruited by Wisconsin as a LB, but we got him on a promise to be a RB. hows that working out?

huskiealum03 Wrote:

niusfactuary Wrote:

UIHuskie Wrote:The kid is Riley Dodge, a 3-star athlete out of Southlake (Carroll). The kid's dad is the head coach at North Texas and he wasn't recruited by Texas to play QB. The kid admitted that he wanted a chance to play QB and play early, something that wasn't going to happen at Texas.

This is what we need to do if we want to get better players. We need to find the players in this region that are good enough to play in the BCS conferences, but aren't going to get to play at their preferred position. We need to find these kids and give them a chance to play their number one position.

I believe Cas Prime was recruited by Wisconsin as a LB, but we got him on a promise to be a RB. hows that working out?

We do the same thing. Boone Thorgeson wanted a chance to play QB and that lasted for summer drills and that's it. You promise the kid a chance, not that he'll play come hell or high water.

Another key to recruiting at smaller programs is the staff's ability to see potential in players that may be playing out of position in high school. In small high school programs, the best athlete usually plays running back or QB. Guys like Tommy Blake at TCU played RB in high school, Patterson saw something in Blake that suited him to play DE. TCUs LB Jason Phillips was a HS QB and so on.

In reality, there are only a handful of programs that really recruit nationally. Sure most BCS schools fish a few kids from distant states, but even most BCS programs build their core from the region.

UIHuskie Wrote:[quote=niusfactuary]
For instance, Texas obviously thought this kid wasn't a BCS-level QB, and it's possible other BCS schools felt the same way (he's only 6-0, for one thing). Well, then if he's not, and he's just an average mid-major QB at North Texas, why not just try and find a kid that's as good and not have to fight with BCS schools with him?

Texas did the same thing when they passed on South Lake's Chase Daniel (now at Missouri) at QB because they thought he was too short at 6-0. Many of the big programs like Texas tend to get caught up in the numbers game, of course that is also because rivals and scout.com put too much weight in measurables. Instinct, speed to the ball (or football speed), ability to read defenses/offenses, and other intangibles are much more important in the end.

huskiealum03 Wrote:

niusfactuary Wrote:

UIHuskie Wrote:The kid is Riley Dodge, a 3-star athlete out of Southlake (Carroll). The kid's dad is the head coach at North Texas and he wasn't recruited by Texas to play QB. The kid admitted that he wanted a chance to play QB and play early, something that wasn't going to happen at Texas.

This is what we need to do if we want to get better players. We need to find the players in this region that are good enough to play in the BCS conferences, but aren't going to get to play at their preferred position. We need to find these kids and give them a chance to play their number one position.

I believe Cas Prime was recruited by Wisconsin as a LB, but we got him on a promise to be a RB. hows that working out?

wow, well that absolutely sucks..quite frankly, prime is like a wasted roster spot right now...

OlliesCustard Wrote:I don't think that you should compare our recruiting situation from App State. They are a Div 1-AA school and we are a lower tier Div 1 school. We cannot compete with the Michigans, Notre Dames, all the Big 10 schools that recruit nationally. We have to rely on projects and second tier players. But, Div-1AA schools usually get transfers from these big tier schools, because they end up getting lost in the numbers game and never play. They can transfer to 1-AA and play IMMEDIATELY and not have to sit out. Thus, a lot of 1-AA schools get some of these blue chip recruits, just a few years later. If these kids were to transfer to our school, they would have to sit out a year.

This comes down to a kid making the right decision the first time. It's not all glory to be picked by a BCS school, you are constantly competing to keep your scholarship. I think Joe has done a great job at selling this point for NIU, that players will be able to play all 4 years.

Your right - we should be able to recruit BETTER talent than Appalacian State - Joe does not - we still haven't had a big win since 2003 - the years are ticking by!!!

tcufrog86 Wrote:Texas did the same thing when they passed on South Lake's Chase Daniel (now at Missouri) at QB because they thought he was too short at 6-0. Many of the big programs like Texas tend to get caught up in the numbers game, of course that is also because rivals and scout.com put too much weight in measurables. Instinct, speed to the ball (or football speed), ability to read defenses/offenses, and other intangibles are much more important in the end.

I realize that, but Texas recruits well enough they can find themselves a player who has all of the intangibles AND has the size they're looking for or somebody they think fits their style of play more.

Also, that was just an example, it's not always about height/weight. Sometimes kids are outstanding at a position in HS, really want to play it in college, but simply aren't that caliber player at their chosen position but may be very successful elsewhere (i.e., a RB who could be a terrific LB).

niubrad00 Wrote:

COHUSKIE Wrote:I heard Jim Phillips interview yesterday how we recruit regionally because we are a regional university. This is a huge mistake and Appalachian State University proved that yesterday.

If you want to be extremely successful you can recruit regionally if you region is very talented. Well the midwest is not lucrative in talent. If you look at Appalachian State's roster they recruit regionally as well but their region is the Southeast which is extremely talented.

In my opinion as long as NIU continues to insist on recruiting regionally and does not go out to heavily recruit the Southeast, Texas, and even the West Coast we will continue to have a few good years and many many more mediocre to bad years.

I do not know how many of you saw the Appalachian State vs Michigan game yesterday but the bottomline was Appalachian State had superior athletes. Their team speed was absolutely unbelievable. To me it proves the point that while there are many big schools with the SEC and ACC in the area, Appalachian State did a great job of recruiting top notch athletes that the SEC and ACC overlooked. As I have stated before the 2nd and 3rd Tier players in regions such as the southeast are far far superior to the athletes NIU gets in the Midwest.

Oh my God!! Please tell me you're kidding. App St had superior athletes to Michigan??? What kind of Kool-Aid are you drinking?

Come on. This was the upset of the century and you're trying to pin our recruiting problems on it. That's just silly. Every school in America tries to get overlooked talent, we won't be trying something secretive by doing it.

I think Sam Hurd would beg to differ that we only recruit regionally.

No NIUBRAD, oh my god you please. Did you see the game? App State had superior athletes. They were much faster from a team speed perspective and just as skilled. Really, look at a replay if you can get one. Definitely had some superior athletes, not all of them but definitely some of them.

COHUSKIE Wrote:

niubrad00 Wrote:

COHUSKIE Wrote:I heard Jim Phillips interview yesterday how we recruit regionally because we are a regional university. This is a huge mistake and Appalachian State University proved that yesterday.

If you want to be extremely successful you can recruit regionally if you region is very talented. Well the midwest is not lucrative in talent. If you look at Appalachian State's roster they recruit regionally as well but their region is the Southeast which is extremely talented.

In my opinion as long as NIU continues to insist on recruiting regionally and does not go out to heavily recruit the Southeast, Texas, and even the West Coast we will continue to have a few good years and many many more mediocre to bad years.

I do not know how many of you saw the Appalachian State vs Michigan game yesterday but the bottomline was Appalachian State had superior athletes. Their team speed was absolutely unbelievable. To me it proves the point that while there are many big schools with the SEC and ACC in the area, Appalachian State did a great job of recruiting top notch athletes that the SEC and ACC overlooked. As I have stated before the 2nd and 3rd Tier players in regions such as the southeast are far far superior to the athletes NIU gets in the Midwest.

Oh my God!! Please tell me you're kidding. App St had superior athletes to Michigan??? What kind of Kool-Aid are you drinking?

Come on. This was the upset of the century and you're trying to pin our recruiting problems on it. That's just silly. Every school in America tries to get overlooked talent, we won't be trying something secretive by doing it.

I think Sam Hurd would beg to differ that we only recruit regionally.

No NIUBRAD, oh my god you please. Did you see the game? App State had superior athletes. They were much faster from a team speed perspective and just as skilled. Really, look at a replay if you can get one. Definitely had some superior athletes, not all of them but definitely some of them.

How many games would APState win against Michigan in a 10 game series...maybe 1 or 2 at best. Be realistic..Michigan overlooked this game and was not prepared. They make the field goal and we would not be having this discussion. I give AP State a lot of credit for playing hard and it was a great upset but they did not win the game soley on superior talent.
AP State like a lot of D 1AA schools get 1A transfers because they can play right away (note WIU in recent years). I wonder how many on the AP State roster are transfers for 1A?

for a school like App. State to beat a Michigan, everything has to go perfectly in the game. To deny that there is a disparity in talent, athleticism, resources would be blind.

Does anybody here remember hearing during the NIU-TCU game last year that TCU didn't have one Top 200 Texas prospect on their team? Nuts . . .

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

Here is the bottom line. The MAC is a bunch of regional schools. Most recruit regionally. This is the weakness of the MAC. They will NEVER become a power conference with no national audience. This is the BCS's success. They have lots of Alums and casual fans all over the country(compared to most MAC schools which have a geographically regional look-NIU-Chicago, Toledo-Cleveland/Detroit, BUGS-Cleveland, Buffalo-NY City and Buffalo. All regional. Mid west or NY). THis won't allow us the bigger and better TV contracts. Why would ESPN show NIU in California or Florida(now that UCF is gone) when they get no ratings? THey would rather split it and make more. But that doesn't help the image of the MAC nationally-which is the poor mans Big 10(1). Which is the reason I think this ESPN regional thing hurts the conference rather than help. Recruiting nationally will not solve this problem but it is a place to start. PArents. Family. Friends. Friends of friends. Friends of friends of friends. etc.

tcufrog86 Wrote:TCU recruits regionally and does fine.

Yes. But you are in Texas. 'Nuff said.

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

HuskieFan84 Wrote:If you want to pay for the extra costs that come with recruiting Nationally so be it. Recruiting the entire country is expensive and not something NIU can afford, let alone do well at. Most schools besides the USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.. will get the majority of their great players within their area of the country. How many players do you think from Iowa come from a state other then Iowa or the states that are touching Iowa?

http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sports/m-f...l-mtt.html

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at their roster. It's almost all Illinois and Iowa, some from Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri; surprise, surprise. If Iowa can compete in the big 10 and recruit regionally I imagine we can compete in the MAC by recruiting regionally.

I just get the feeling you don't understand how recruiting works, this isn't NCAA '08, you can't just say your going to recruit Florida and Texas and easily convince 20 kids from Florida and Texas to play at NIU. It doesn't work like that.

Milhouse Wrote:Does anybody here remember hearing during the NIU-TCU game last year that TCU didn't have one Top 200 Texas prospect on their team? Nuts . . .

Here are the Texas top 100 guys TCU has signed since 03 (the first year rivals did state rankings). Not including this years Freshman since they would of not been around for the NIU game.

James Battle QB: transferred, left team, who knows
Will Oliver OL: never developed
Otis McDaniel: WR, but only runs track now at TCU
Shae Reagan: played in the bowl game
Stephen Hodge: played in bowl game
Corderra Hunter: playrs this year, not sure if he played much last season
Lorenzo Jones: in prison
Marvin White: TCU signed from JUCO, but Texas top 100 out of HS
Andy Dalton: starting QB this season, RS last year
Wayne Daniels: played in first game this season, RS last year
Clint Renfro: RS last year

So we definitely have more guys who would fall into the top 200 category. But even Baylor gets way more top 100 guys than TCU does, probably because they are BCS.

Beyond the added financial costs to recruiting nationally, there is also a cost in strained relationships with local high school coaches by not investing as much in those relationships. Failing to recruit the home region was a big failing of Sadler. NIU as an institution is known regionally- kids know people who come here. Homesickness is a non-factor. To a kid in North Carolina or Oregon, NIU might as well be Northern Iowa.

The kids that come to NIU, if they stay motivated for the 4 and 5 years they're here can be every bit as good as any kid we'd spend three times as much money travelling to recruit from Georgia.

But keeping 19-21 year old kids committed to getting better as football players when the typical student can't stay committed to a major, when relaxing and just being a college kid is really appealling to them- that is a huge challenge. I don't think it's possible to predict who will stay motivated like Wolfe, Fleck, Turner and Duffy or who will lose the hunger in couple year's time.