I am as frustrated as anyone that the Griz are 1-7, I think they have too much talent to be there and they are a few plays away from being a respectable 3-5 or 4-4 (that would be ok after a 5 game west coast swing).
Here are my thoughts for what they are worth
Look, I have been critical of Conley as well, but I do see growth. Dude is 22 (just turned it Oct 11), Rudy just turned 23 in August, OJ is 22 (as of Nov 5), and Gasol is 24 - will be 25 in January. Rudy has played for Fratello (slow poke), Barone (no D Barone Boloney ball), Iavaroni (need I say more) and Hollins. Conley has basically played for 2 years (he was injured his rookie season was he not) and Iavaroni had a choke collar on him. Let's give him some time. Jameer Nelson and Chauncey Billups were criticized for many years before they turned into anything.
I was at the game last night and have watched almost every minute of every game this year. Rudy played very solid D last night (had a really rough offensive night but they doubled him hard all night), and Conley ran the team well. People gripe about Conley dribbling too much and doing nothing with it - you are watching the wrong guy, that is Marcus Williams, who is also very young (he turns 24 in December).
Our top 2 guys off the bench with Iverson gone are rookies (Sam Young got elbowed by Brandon Roy last night and Young got the foul, and he had an and 1 situation where Bevetta call an O-foul on him) so they will get no respect and no calls. They don't have a clue yet about the NBA game as they are 8 games in.
Thabeet will not be a good or bad draft pick for 3 years, period. He is a project. Let's discuss whether he was a good pick 3 years from now. If he is averaging 12pts, 9 rebs, and 2.5 blocks then or anywhere close, I am ok with the pick. If he is playing 16 minutes, and averaging 6,4, and 1, then he was an awful pick, especially if Conley lives down to where everyone thinks he is and will be. I still think we should have picked Evans (even posted as such) as we need a guy who can drive the ball from the perimeter. But, you can't teach 7'3", and I at least understand the pick and the thought process, whether I agree or not. I am just taking a pass and resigning myself that it will be a few years. (how does the Pau trade look now as opposed to then - then - cap space, now - Z-Bo and Marc. I like it much better now and NO one expected Marc to be as good as he has become - go back and read the comments- he was a "throw in"). So, let's let it play out.
As much as I am frustrated by the losing, especially with the talent I see, we have the youngest team in the NBA by far, we probably still don't have the right coach (Hollins isn't as bad as people are saying, but I even posted a thread IF he isn't the guy, then who is, so he is definitely questionable). The games we have lost have come down to making a few key plays at critical moments. Most of the time 22-24 year old guys in the NBA will not make those plays. It is not time to give up on people. Heisley just needs to figure out if we are going to develop the young talent (then bring in the right coach), or if we are going to parlay the young talent into established talent. Putting AI in the mix was a bad move as it sends a mixed message. He is clearly still a better player than Conley is right now in many aspects, so I would have preferred he either start or get major minutes ahead of Conley if he is here. He gives us a better chance to win, even if he can be a ball hog. But, he has to have the right attitude, or he needs to stay away.
Also, for those of you that have questioned Rudy's D and hustle, and built up OJ. Watch the replay from last night. Andre Miller blew by OJ 1 on 1 numerous times last night that lead to baskets. His effort has not been great on D for most of this year, either (I always had the impression he at least tried, but beginning to question myself). Rudy, to his credit, has played better D the last two games, but he needs to bring it every night on both ends for the Griz to win. Can he do that? he hasn't yet, but I didn't bring it every day to anything when I was in my early 20's.
To me, the guys you keep no matter what are:
Gasol
Mayo
If you can get good talent for the other guys, we all know their shortcomings as they are well documented and discussed, but PLEASE Mr. Heisley, don't give them away!! If we are going to stay the course, then let's stay the course. We need a veteran off the bench in my mind right now and someone who can scfore and who can lead.
I appreciate any thoughts (constructive please - even if you disagree with me and I have no issue if you do) and I just needed to get this off my chest.
it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
(11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Derrick is a rare talent. Not many guys step in at his age and do what he did. He is EXTREMELY rare, especially at the PG position. he has struggled some this year though...he is on my fantasy bball team and he isn't putting up the numbers he did at the end of last year.
Plus, he has more mature talent around him...
Conley is putting up respectable numbers, but he needs to run the game more in my mind.
Here are some comparisons of guys who were selected early in the draft:
Devin Harris (2004, no. 5) - still not a "franchise" level guy, but solid and getting better (Shaun Livingtson, drafted at #4 - where is he? Playing 10 mins a game for OKC, never has produced jack)
Raymond Felton - (2005, no. 5, Charlotte) - averaging 12.7pts, and 5.6 assists
T.J. Ford (2003, no. 8) - 11.4 pts, 2.2 A
Dajuan wagner (2002, no. 6) - need I say more?
Of course, you had guys like, D. Williams, Paul, and Rose taken early as well. But, it is a crap shoot. Late® developers:
Tony Parker, who was criticized early in his career, but finally "got it":
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2001-02 SA 77 29:23 3.5 8.3 41.9 0.8 2.5 32.3 1.4 2.1 67.5 0.4 2.1 2.6 4.3 2.0 1.2 0.1 2.2 9.2
2002-03 SA 82 33:47 5.9 12.7 46.4 1.0 3.0 33.7 2.7 3.5 75.5 0.4 2.2 2.6 5.3 2.4 0.9 0.1 2.1 15.5
2003-04 SA 75 34:23 5.6 12.6 44.7 0.8 2.7 31.2 2.6 3.6 70.2 0.6 2.6 3.2 5.5 2.4 0.8 0.1 2.0 14.7
2004-05 SA 80 34:12 6.7 14.0 48.2 0.5 2.0 27.6 2.6 4.0 65.0 0.6 3.1 3.7 6.1 2.7 1.2 0.1 2.1 16.6
2005-06 SA 80 33:53 7.8 14.2 54.8 0.1 0.5 30.6 3.2 4.5 70.7 0.5 2.8 3.3 5.8 3.1 1.0 0.1 2.0 18.9
2006-07 SA 77 32:30 7.4 14.2 52.0 0.2 0.5 39.5 3.6 4.6 78.3 0.4 2.8 3.3 5.5 2.5 1.1 0.1 1.8 18.6
2007-08 SA 69 33:30 7.5 15.1 49.4 0.3 1.0 25.8 3.6 5.0 71.5 0.4 2.8 3.2 6.0 2.4 0.8 0.1 1.4 18.8
2008-09 SA 72 34:06 8.9 17.5 50.6 0.3 0.9 29.2 3.9 5.0 78.2 0.4 2.7 3.1 6.9 2.6 0.9 0.1 1.5 22.0
2009-10 SA 5 25:30 5.4 10.8 50.0 0.0 0.2 0.0 4.0 4.2 95.2 0.2 1.4 1.6 4.0 2.0 0.6 0.2 1.4 14.8
Career 617 33:12 6.6 13.5 49.0 0.5 1.6 31.2 2.9 4.0 72.8 0.5 2.6 3.1 5.6 2.5 1.0 0.1 1.9 16.7
Jameer Nelson:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2004-05 ORL 79 20:23 3.6 8.0 45.5 0.6 1.8 31.2 0.9 1.4 68.2 0.7 1.8 2.4 3.0 1.5 1.0 0.0 2.5 8.7
2005-06 ORL 62 28:48 5.6 11.6 48.3 1.1 2.7 42.4 2.3 2.9 77.9 0.6 2.3 2.9 4.9 2.4 1.1 0.2 2.8 14.6
2006-07 ORL 77 30:18 4.9 11.4 43.0 0.8 2.5 33.5 2.4 2.9 82.8 0.7 2.4 3.1 4.3 2.4 1.0 0.1 2.9 13.0
2007-08 ORL 69 28:23 4.1 8.7 46.9 0.9 2.2 41.6 1.8 2.2 82.8 0.4 3.1 3.5 5.6 2.0 0.9 0.1 2.4 10.9
2008-09 ORL 42 31:11 6.4 12.6 50.3 2.0 4.3 45.3 2.1 2.3 88.7 0.5 3.0 3.5 5.4 2.0 1.2 0.1 2.9 16.7
2009-10 ORL 8 28:23 4.9 11.3 43.3 1.5 3.3 46.2 2.0 2.4 84.2 0.3 2.1 2.4 5.9 2.4 0.9 0.1 2.5 13.3
Career 337 27:23 4.7 10.2 46.4 1.0 2.6 39.1 1.9 2.3 80.4 0.6 2.5 3.0 4.5 2.1 1.0 0.1 2.7 12.3
Chauncey Billups:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
1997-98 BOS 51 25:23 3.5 8.9 39.0 1.3 3.7 33.9 2.9 3.5 81.7 0.8 1.4 2.2 4.3 2.3 1.5 0.0 2.3 11.1
1997-98 TOR 29 31:41 3.6 10.2 34.9 1.5 4.7 31.6 2.7 3.0 91.9 0.8 1.9 2.7 3.3 1.9 1.0 0.1 1.9 11.3
1998-99 DEN 45 33:06 4.2 11.0 38.6 1.9 5.2 36.2 3.5 3.8 91.3 0.5 1.6 2.1 3.8 2.2 1.3 0.3 2.6 13.9
1999-00 DEN 13 23:30 2.6 7.8 33.7 0.5 3.2 17.1 2.9 3.4 84.1 0.6 2.0 2.6 3.0 1.9 0.8 0.2 2.1 8.6
2000-01 MIN 77 23:11 3.2 7.6 42.3 1.0 2.5 37.6 1.9 2.2 84.2 0.4 1.6 2.1 3.4 1.4 0.7 0.1 2.3 9.3
2001-02 MIN 82 28:41 4.2 10.0 42.3 1.5 3.8 39.4 2.5 2.9 88.5 0.4 2.3 2.8 5.5 1.7 0.8 0.2 2.1 12.5
2002-03 DET 74 31:23 5.0 11.8 42.1 2.0 5.1 39.2 4.3 4.9 87.9 0.5 3.2 3.7 3.9 1.8 0.9 0.2 1.8 16.2
2003-04 DET 78 35:23 5.0 12.8 39.4 1.7 4.3 38.8 5.2 5.9 87.8 0.5 3.1 3.5 5.7 2.4 1.1 0.1 2.3 16.9
2004-05 DET 80 35:47 5.1 11.4 44.3 2.1 4.8 42.6 4.3 4.8 89.8 0.6 2.8 3.4 5.8 2.3 1.0 0.1 2.4 16.5
2005-06 DET 81 36:06 5.2 12.5 41.8 2.3 5.3 43.3 5.7 6.4 89.4 0.5 2.6 3.1 8.6 2.1 0.9 0.1 2.0 18.5
2006-07 DET 70 36:12 5.0 11.6 42.7 1.6 4.5 34.5 5.5 6.2 88.3 0.3 3.1 3.4 7.2 2.0 1.2 0.2 2.3 17.0
2007-08 DET 78 32:17 5.0 11.2 44.8 1.8 4.4 40.1 5.1 5.6 91.8 0.5 2.2 2.7 6.8 2.1 1.3 0.2 1.7 17.0
2008-09 DET 2 34:53 3.5 10.5 33.3 1.0 3.5 28.6 4.5 5.0 90.0 0.5 4.5 5.0 7.5 2.0 1.5 0.5 1.5 12.5
2008-09 DEN 77 35:17 5.2 12.5 42.0 2.1 5.1 41.0 5.3 5.8 91.3 0.4 2.6 3.0 6.4 2.3 1.2 0.2 2.1 17.9
2009-10 DEN 8 33:42 5.8 13.8 41.8 2.0 5.4 37.2 5.9 6.6 88.7 0.5 2.3 2.8 5.3 2.0 1.5 0.1 2.6 19.4
Career 845 32:06 4.6 11.0 41.6 1.7 4.4 38.8 4.2 4.7 88.9 0.5 2.4 2.9 5.6 2.0 1.0 0.2 2.1 15.1
Steve Nash:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
1996-97 PHO 65 10:30 1.1 2.7 42.3 0.4 0.9 41.8 0.7 0.8 82.4 0.3 0.7 1.0 2.1 1.0 0.3 0.0 1.4 3.3
1997-98 PHO 76 21:53 3.5 7.7 45.9 1.1 2.6 41.5 1.0 1.1 86.1 0.4 1.7 2.1 3.5 1.3 0.8 0.1 1.9 9.1
1998-99 DAL 40 31:41 2.9 7.9 36.3 1.2 3.3 37.4 1.0 1.2 82.6 0.8 2.1 2.9 5.5 2.1 0.9 0.1 2.5 7.9
1999-00 DAL 56 27:23 3.1 6.5 47.7 1.1 2.7 40.3 1.3 1.5 88.2 0.6 1.6 2.2 4.9 1.8 0.7 0.1 2.2 8.6
2000-01 DAL 70 34:06 5.5 11.3 48.7 1.3 3.1 40.6 3.3 3.7 89.5 0.7 2.5 3.2 7.3 2.9 1.0 0.1 2.3 15.6
2001-02 DAL 82 34:36 6.4 13.3 48.3 1.9 4.2 45.5 3.2 3.6 88.7 0.6 2.5 3.1 7.7 2.8 0.7 0.1 2.0 17.9
2002-03 DAL 82 33:06 6.3 13.6 46.5 1.4 3.3 41.3 3.8 4.1 90.9 0.8 2.1 2.9 7.3 2.3 1.0 0.1 1.6 17.7
2003-04 DAL 78 33:30 5.1 10.8 47.0 1.3 3.3 40.5 3.0 3.2 91.6 0.8 2.2 3.0 8.8 2.7 0.9 0.1 1.8 14.5
2004-05 PHO 75 34:17 5.7 11.4 50.2 1.3 2.9 43.1 2.8 3.2 88.7 0.8 2.6 3.3 11.5 3.3 1.0 0.1 1.8 15.5
2005-06 PHO 79 35:23 6.9 13.4 51.2 1.9 4.3 43.9 3.3 3.5 92.1 0.6 3.6 4.2 10.5 3.5 0.8 0.2 1.5 18.9
2006-07 PHO 76 35:17 6.8 12.8 53.2 2.1 4.5 45.5 2.9 3.3 89.9 0.4 3.1 3.5 11.6 3.8 0.8 0.1 1.5 18.6
2007-08 PHO 81 34:17 6.0 11.9 50.4 2.2 4.7 47.0 2.7 3.0 90.6 0.4 3.1 3.5 11.1 3.6 0.7 0.1 1.4 16.9
2008-09 PHO 74 33:36 5.8 11.5 50.3 1.5 3.3 43.9 2.7 2.8 93.3 0.3 2.8 3.0 9.7 3.4 0.7 0.1 1.5 15.7
2009-10 PHO 8 34:30 6.5 12.4 52.5 2.1 4.4 48.6 3.1 3.4 92.6 0.4 2.5 2.9 12.9 4.6 0.1 0.4 1.3 18.3
Career 942 31:06 5.2 10.7 48.7 1.5 3.4 43.3 2.5 2.8 90.1 0.6 2.4 3.0 8.1 2.7 0.8 0.1 1.8 14.4
Devin Harris:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2004-05 DAL 76 15:24 2.1 4.8 42.9 0.6 1.7 33.6 1.0 1.4 75.7 0.4 1.0 1.3 2.2 1.1 1.0 0.3 1.8 5.7
2005-06 DAL 56 22:48 3.4 7.2 46.9 0.1 0.4 23.8 3.0 4.2 71.6 0.5 1.8 2.2 3.2 1.5 1.0 0.3 2.2 9.9
2006-07 DAL 80 26:00 3.7 7.4 49.2 0.2 0.6 28.0 2.7 3.3 82.4 0.6 1.9 2.5 3.7 1.8 1.2 0.3 3.0 10.2
2007-08 DAL 39 30:23 4.8 9.9 48.3 0.6 1.8 35.7 4.1 5.0 82.1 0.4 1.9 2.3 5.3 2.4 1.4 0.1 3.3 14.4
2007-08 NJ 25 33:30 5.4 12.2 43.8 1.2 3.9 32.0 3.5 4.2 82.9 0.4 2.8 3.3 6.5 2.7 1.4 0.3 2.5 15.4
2008-09 NJ 69 36:06 6.6 15.1 43.8 0.9 3.2 29.1 7.2 8.8 82.0 0.4 2.9 3.4 6.9 3.1 1.7 0.2 2.4 21.3
2009-10 NJ 2 31:48 5.0 15.5 32.3 0.0 2.0 0.0 5.0 7.0 71.4 1.5 4.0 5.5 7.5 2.0 1.5 0.0 4.0 15.0
Career 347 26:18 4.1 9.0 45.6 0.5 1.7 30.9 3.5 4.4 80.0 0.5 2.0 2.4 4.3 2.0 1.3 0.2 2.5 12.2
Jose Calderon:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2005-06 TOR 64 23:11 2.1 4.9 42.3 0.1 0.7 16.3 1.2 1.4 84.8 0.5 1.7 2.2 4.5 1.6 0.7 0.1 1.5 5.5
2006-07 TOR 77 21:00 3.4 6.6 52.1 0.3 1.0 33.3 1.5 1.9 81.8 0.3 1.5 1.7 5.0 1.4 0.8 0.1 1.8 8.7
2007-08 TOR 82 30:18 4.5 8.6 51.9 1.0 2.2 42.9 1.3 1.5 90.8 0.4 2.5 2.9 8.3 1.5 1.1 0.1 1.6 11.2
2008-09 TOR 68 34:17 4.7 9.5 49.7 1.2 3.0 40.6 2.2 2.3 98.1 0.2 2.6 2.9 8.9 2.1 1.1 0.1 1.7 12.8
2009-10 TOR 7 32:47 4.4 9.7 45.6 0.7 2.6 27.8 2.0 2.9 70.0 0.3 2.3 2.6 6.4 1.7 0.9 0.1 3.0 11.6
Career 298 27:18 3.7 7.5 49.8 0.7 1.8 37.9 1.6 1.8 88.7 0.4 2.1 2.4 6.7 1.7 0.9 0.1 1.7 9.7
Rajon Rondo (who had a huge infusion of talent to see his stats go up - see Chris Paul for confirmation):
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2006-07 BOS 78 23:30 2.4 5.8 41.8 0.1 0.4 20.7 1.5 2.4 64.7 1.0 2.8 3.7 3.8 1.8 1.6 0.1 2.3 6.4
2007-08 BOS 77 29:53 4.6 9.3 49.2 0.1 0.3 26.3 1.4 2.3 61.1 1.0 3.2 4.2 5.1 1.9 1.7 0.2 2.4 10.6
2008-09 BOS 80 33:00 4.8 9.5 50.5 0.2 0.6 31.3 2.2 3.4 64.2 1.3 4.0 5.2 8.2 2.6 1.9 0.1 2.4 11.9
2009-10 BOS 8 32:36 5.1 8.6 59.4 0.0 0.3 0.0 0.4 1.0 37.5 1.4 2.6 4.0 9.0 2.0 3.1 0.0 2.8 10.6
Career 243 29:00 4.0 8.2 48.4 0.1 0.4 26.5 1.7 2.6 63.2 1.1 3.3 4.4 5.9 2.1 1.8 0.1 2.4 9.7
My point is, that there are guys like Paul, Williams, and Rose who have come in and looked electric right from the start. But, there are a lot of guys who took 2-3 years to get it or not. The issue will be if Conley never really "gets it" and if this last draft truly ends up being as deep with PG's (Flynn, Rubio, Evans, Jennings, etc.). Then, we can pass blame. I am just saying that given Conley is essentially in his 2nd real year (with the choke collar off), that we should at least give him a little more time. He has the tools, quickness, passing ability, good handles, and smart. He has improved his shooting, he has gotten stronger, and he is starting to be a little more aggressive. He is hitting 3's at a 40% clip, so people are having a harder time playing off of him.
I am just saying that at 22, it is too early to pass judgement. I understand the criticism, but stating that "he will never be the PG of a playoff team" which I have heard numerous times in numerous places, is premature at best. No one thought Billups would even stay in the league much less become "Mr. Big Shot." Nash struggled for almost 4 years before he caught on. I am not saying Conley will be Nash or Billups, but he isn't Dajuan Wagner either. I just like to think he will get better.
(11-11-2009 02:10 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ]Here are some comparisons of guys who were selected early in the draft:
Devin Harris (2004, no. 5) - still not a "franchise" level guy, but solid and getting better (Shaun Livingtson, drafted at #4 - where is he? Playing 10 mins a game for OKC, never has produced jack)
Raymond Felton - (2005, no. 5, Charlotte) - averaging 12.7pts, and 5.6 assists
T.J. Ford (2003, no. 8) - 11.4 pts, 2.2 A
Dajuan wagner (2002, no. 6) - need I say more?
Of course, you had guys like, D. Williams, Paul, and Rose taken early as well. But, it is a crap shoot. Late® developers:
Tony Parker, who was criticized early in his career, but finally "got it":
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2001-02 SA 77 29:23 3.5 8.3 41.9 0.8 2.5 32.3 1.4 2.1 67.5 0.4 2.1 2.6 4.3 2.0 1.2 0.1 2.2 9.2
2002-03 SA 82 33:47 5.9 12.7 46.4 1.0 3.0 33.7 2.7 3.5 75.5 0.4 2.2 2.6 5.3 2.4 0.9 0.1 2.1 15.5
2003-04 SA 75 34:23 5.6 12.6 44.7 0.8 2.7 31.2 2.6 3.6 70.2 0.6 2.6 3.2 5.5 2.4 0.8 0.1 2.0 14.7
2004-05 SA 80 34:12 6.7 14.0 48.2 0.5 2.0 27.6 2.6 4.0 65.0 0.6 3.1 3.7 6.1 2.7 1.2 0.1 2.1 16.6
2005-06 SA 80 33:53 7.8 14.2 54.8 0.1 0.5 30.6 3.2 4.5 70.7 0.5 2.8 3.3 5.8 3.1 1.0 0.1 2.0 18.9
2006-07 SA 77 32:30 7.4 14.2 52.0 0.2 0.5 39.5 3.6 4.6 78.3 0.4 2.8 3.3 5.5 2.5 1.1 0.1 1.8 18.6
2007-08 SA 69 33:30 7.5 15.1 49.4 0.3 1.0 25.8 3.6 5.0 71.5 0.4 2.8 3.2 6.0 2.4 0.8 0.1 1.4 18.8
2008-09 SA 72 34:06 8.9 17.5 50.6 0.3 0.9 29.2 3.9 5.0 78.2 0.4 2.7 3.1 6.9 2.6 0.9 0.1 1.5 22.0
2009-10 SA 5 25:30 5.4 10.8 50.0 0.0 0.2 0.0 4.0 4.2 95.2 0.2 1.4 1.6 4.0 2.0 0.6 0.2 1.4 14.8
Career 617 33:12 6.6 13.5 49.0 0.5 1.6 31.2 2.9 4.0 72.8 0.5 2.6 3.1 5.6 2.5 1.0 0.1 1.9 16.7
Jameer Nelson:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2004-05 ORL 79 20:23 3.6 8.0 45.5 0.6 1.8 31.2 0.9 1.4 68.2 0.7 1.8 2.4 3.0 1.5 1.0 0.0 2.5 8.7
2005-06 ORL 62 28:48 5.6 11.6 48.3 1.1 2.7 42.4 2.3 2.9 77.9 0.6 2.3 2.9 4.9 2.4 1.1 0.2 2.8 14.6
2006-07 ORL 77 30:18 4.9 11.4 43.0 0.8 2.5 33.5 2.4 2.9 82.8 0.7 2.4 3.1 4.3 2.4 1.0 0.1 2.9 13.0
2007-08 ORL 69 28:23 4.1 8.7 46.9 0.9 2.2 41.6 1.8 2.2 82.8 0.4 3.1 3.5 5.6 2.0 0.9 0.1 2.4 10.9
2008-09 ORL 42 31:11 6.4 12.6 50.3 2.0 4.3 45.3 2.1 2.3 88.7 0.5 3.0 3.5 5.4 2.0 1.2 0.1 2.9 16.7
2009-10 ORL 8 28:23 4.9 11.3 43.3 1.5 3.3 46.2 2.0 2.4 84.2 0.3 2.1 2.4 5.9 2.4 0.9 0.1 2.5 13.3
Career 337 27:23 4.7 10.2 46.4 1.0 2.6 39.1 1.9 2.3 80.4 0.6 2.5 3.0 4.5 2.1 1.0 0.1 2.7 12.3
Chauncey Billups:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
1997-98 BOS 51 25:23 3.5 8.9 39.0 1.3 3.7 33.9 2.9 3.5 81.7 0.8 1.4 2.2 4.3 2.3 1.5 0.0 2.3 11.1
1997-98 TOR 29 31:41 3.6 10.2 34.9 1.5 4.7 31.6 2.7 3.0 91.9 0.8 1.9 2.7 3.3 1.9 1.0 0.1 1.9 11.3
1998-99 DEN 45 33:06 4.2 11.0 38.6 1.9 5.2 36.2 3.5 3.8 91.3 0.5 1.6 2.1 3.8 2.2 1.3 0.3 2.6 13.9
1999-00 DEN 13 23:30 2.6 7.8 33.7 0.5 3.2 17.1 2.9 3.4 84.1 0.6 2.0 2.6 3.0 1.9 0.8 0.2 2.1 8.6
2000-01 MIN 77 23:11 3.2 7.6 42.3 1.0 2.5 37.6 1.9 2.2 84.2 0.4 1.6 2.1 3.4 1.4 0.7 0.1 2.3 9.3
2001-02 MIN 82 28:41 4.2 10.0 42.3 1.5 3.8 39.4 2.5 2.9 88.5 0.4 2.3 2.8 5.5 1.7 0.8 0.2 2.1 12.5
2002-03 DET 74 31:23 5.0 11.8 42.1 2.0 5.1 39.2 4.3 4.9 87.9 0.5 3.2 3.7 3.9 1.8 0.9 0.2 1.8 16.2
2003-04 DET 78 35:23 5.0 12.8 39.4 1.7 4.3 38.8 5.2 5.9 87.8 0.5 3.1 3.5 5.7 2.4 1.1 0.1 2.3 16.9
2004-05 DET 80 35:47 5.1 11.4 44.3 2.1 4.8 42.6 4.3 4.8 89.8 0.6 2.8 3.4 5.8 2.3 1.0 0.1 2.4 16.5
2005-06 DET 81 36:06 5.2 12.5 41.8 2.3 5.3 43.3 5.7 6.4 89.4 0.5 2.6 3.1 8.6 2.1 0.9 0.1 2.0 18.5
2006-07 DET 70 36:12 5.0 11.6 42.7 1.6 4.5 34.5 5.5 6.2 88.3 0.3 3.1 3.4 7.2 2.0 1.2 0.2 2.3 17.0
2007-08 DET 78 32:17 5.0 11.2 44.8 1.8 4.4 40.1 5.1 5.6 91.8 0.5 2.2 2.7 6.8 2.1 1.3 0.2 1.7 17.0
2008-09 DET 2 34:53 3.5 10.5 33.3 1.0 3.5 28.6 4.5 5.0 90.0 0.5 4.5 5.0 7.5 2.0 1.5 0.5 1.5 12.5
2008-09 DEN 77 35:17 5.2 12.5 42.0 2.1 5.1 41.0 5.3 5.8 91.3 0.4 2.6 3.0 6.4 2.3 1.2 0.2 2.1 17.9
2009-10 DEN 8 33:42 5.8 13.8 41.8 2.0 5.4 37.2 5.9 6.6 88.7 0.5 2.3 2.8 5.3 2.0 1.5 0.1 2.6 19.4
Career 845 32:06 4.6 11.0 41.6 1.7 4.4 38.8 4.2 4.7 88.9 0.5 2.4 2.9 5.6 2.0 1.0 0.2 2.1 15.1
Steve Nash:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
1996-97 PHO 65 10:30 1.1 2.7 42.3 0.4 0.9 41.8 0.7 0.8 82.4 0.3 0.7 1.0 2.1 1.0 0.3 0.0 1.4 3.3
1997-98 PHO 76 21:53 3.5 7.7 45.9 1.1 2.6 41.5 1.0 1.1 86.1 0.4 1.7 2.1 3.5 1.3 0.8 0.1 1.9 9.1
1998-99 DAL 40 31:41 2.9 7.9 36.3 1.2 3.3 37.4 1.0 1.2 82.6 0.8 2.1 2.9 5.5 2.1 0.9 0.1 2.5 7.9
1999-00 DAL 56 27:23 3.1 6.5 47.7 1.1 2.7 40.3 1.3 1.5 88.2 0.6 1.6 2.2 4.9 1.8 0.7 0.1 2.2 8.6
2000-01 DAL 70 34:06 5.5 11.3 48.7 1.3 3.1 40.6 3.3 3.7 89.5 0.7 2.5 3.2 7.3 2.9 1.0 0.1 2.3 15.6
2001-02 DAL 82 34:36 6.4 13.3 48.3 1.9 4.2 45.5 3.2 3.6 88.7 0.6 2.5 3.1 7.7 2.8 0.7 0.1 2.0 17.9
2002-03 DAL 82 33:06 6.3 13.6 46.5 1.4 3.3 41.3 3.8 4.1 90.9 0.8 2.1 2.9 7.3 2.3 1.0 0.1 1.6 17.7
2003-04 DAL 78 33:30 5.1 10.8 47.0 1.3 3.3 40.5 3.0 3.2 91.6 0.8 2.2 3.0 8.8 2.7 0.9 0.1 1.8 14.5
2004-05 PHO 75 34:17 5.7 11.4 50.2 1.3 2.9 43.1 2.8 3.2 88.7 0.8 2.6 3.3 11.5 3.3 1.0 0.1 1.8 15.5
2005-06 PHO 79 35:23 6.9 13.4 51.2 1.9 4.3 43.9 3.3 3.5 92.1 0.6 3.6 4.2 10.5 3.5 0.8 0.2 1.5 18.9
2006-07 PHO 76 35:17 6.8 12.8 53.2 2.1 4.5 45.5 2.9 3.3 89.9 0.4 3.1 3.5 11.6 3.8 0.8 0.1 1.5 18.6
2007-08 PHO 81 34:17 6.0 11.9 50.4 2.2 4.7 47.0 2.7 3.0 90.6 0.4 3.1 3.5 11.1 3.6 0.7 0.1 1.4 16.9
2008-09 PHO 74 33:36 5.8 11.5 50.3 1.5 3.3 43.9 2.7 2.8 93.3 0.3 2.8 3.0 9.7 3.4 0.7 0.1 1.5 15.7
2009-10 PHO 8 34:30 6.5 12.4 52.5 2.1 4.4 48.6 3.1 3.4 92.6 0.4 2.5 2.9 12.9 4.6 0.1 0.4 1.3 18.3
Career 942 31:06 5.2 10.7 48.7 1.5 3.4 43.3 2.5 2.8 90.1 0.6 2.4 3.0 8.1 2.7 0.8 0.1 1.8 14.4
Devin Harris:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2004-05 DAL 76 15:24 2.1 4.8 42.9 0.6 1.7 33.6 1.0 1.4 75.7 0.4 1.0 1.3 2.2 1.1 1.0 0.3 1.8 5.7
2005-06 DAL 56 22:48 3.4 7.2 46.9 0.1 0.4 23.8 3.0 4.2 71.6 0.5 1.8 2.2 3.2 1.5 1.0 0.3 2.2 9.9
2006-07 DAL 80 26:00 3.7 7.4 49.2 0.2 0.6 28.0 2.7 3.3 82.4 0.6 1.9 2.5 3.7 1.8 1.2 0.3 3.0 10.2
2007-08 DAL 39 30:23 4.8 9.9 48.3 0.6 1.8 35.7 4.1 5.0 82.1 0.4 1.9 2.3 5.3 2.4 1.4 0.1 3.3 14.4
2007-08 NJ 25 33:30 5.4 12.2 43.8 1.2 3.9 32.0 3.5 4.2 82.9 0.4 2.8 3.3 6.5 2.7 1.4 0.3 2.5 15.4
2008-09 NJ 69 36:06 6.6 15.1 43.8 0.9 3.2 29.1 7.2 8.8 82.0 0.4 2.9 3.4 6.9 3.1 1.7 0.2 2.4 21.3
2009-10 NJ 2 31:48 5.0 15.5 32.3 0.0 2.0 0.0 5.0 7.0 71.4 1.5 4.0 5.5 7.5 2.0 1.5 0.0 4.0 15.0
Career 347 26:18 4.1 9.0 45.6 0.5 1.7 30.9 3.5 4.4 80.0 0.5 2.0 2.4 4.3 2.0 1.3 0.2 2.5 12.2
Jose Calderon:
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2005-06 TOR 64 23:11 2.1 4.9 42.3 0.1 0.7 16.3 1.2 1.4 84.8 0.5 1.7 2.2 4.5 1.6 0.7 0.1 1.5 5.5
2006-07 TOR 77 21:00 3.4 6.6 52.1 0.3 1.0 33.3 1.5 1.9 81.8 0.3 1.5 1.7 5.0 1.4 0.8 0.1 1.8 8.7
2007-08 TOR 82 30:18 4.5 8.6 51.9 1.0 2.2 42.9 1.3 1.5 90.8 0.4 2.5 2.9 8.3 1.5 1.1 0.1 1.6 11.2
2008-09 TOR 68 34:17 4.7 9.5 49.7 1.2 3.0 40.6 2.2 2.3 98.1 0.2 2.6 2.9 8.9 2.1 1.1 0.1 1.7 12.8
2009-10 TOR 7 32:47 4.4 9.7 45.6 0.7 2.6 27.8 2.0 2.9 70.0 0.3 2.3 2.6 6.4 1.7 0.9 0.1 3.0 11.6
Career 298 27:18 3.7 7.5 49.8 0.7 1.8 37.9 1.6 1.8 88.7 0.4 2.1 2.4 6.7 1.7 0.9 0.1 1.7 9.7
Rajon Rondo (who had a huge infusion of talent to see his stats go up - see Chris Paul for confirmation):
Career FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Year Team G Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
2006-07 BOS 78 23:30 2.4 5.8 41.8 0.1 0.4 20.7 1.5 2.4 64.7 1.0 2.8 3.7 3.8 1.8 1.6 0.1 2.3 6.4
2007-08 BOS 77 29:53 4.6 9.3 49.2 0.1 0.3 26.3 1.4 2.3 61.1 1.0 3.2 4.2 5.1 1.9 1.7 0.2 2.4 10.6
2008-09 BOS 80 33:00 4.8 9.5 50.5 0.2 0.6 31.3 2.2 3.4 64.2 1.3 4.0 5.2 8.2 2.6 1.9 0.1 2.4 11.9
2009-10 BOS 8 32:36 5.1 8.6 59.4 0.0 0.3 0.0 0.4 1.0 37.5 1.4 2.6 4.0 9.0 2.0 3.1 0.0 2.8 10.6
Career 243 29:00 4.0 8.2 48.4 0.1 0.4 26.5 1.7 2.6 63.2 1.1 3.3 4.4 5.9 2.1 1.8 0.1 2.4 9.7
My point is, that there are guys like Paul, Williams, and Rose who have come in and looked electric right from the start. But, there are a lot of guys who took 2-3 years to get it or not. The issue will be if Conley never really "gets it" and if this last draft truly ends up being as deep with PG's (Flynn, Rubio, Evans, Jennings, etc.). Then, we can pass blame. I am just saying that given Conley is essentially in his 2nd real year (with the choke collar off), that we should at least give him a little more time. He has the tools, quickness, passing ability, good handles, and smart. He has improved his shooting, he has gotten stronger, and he is starting to be a little more aggressive. He is hitting 3's at a 40% clip, so people are having a harder time playing off of him.
I am just saying that at 22, it is too early to pass judgement. I understand the criticism, but stating that "he will never be the PG of a playoff team" which I have heard numerous times in numerous places, is premature at best. No one thought Billups would even stay in the league much less become "Mr. Big Shot." Nash struggled for almost 4 years before he caught on. I am not saying Conley will be Nash or Billups, but he isn't Dajuan Wagner either. I just like to think he will get better.
Thanks for taking the time to say what I wanted to say but didn't have time to say. I agree completely.
TTF - I swear I have gone both ways on Conley, Rudy, and even Mayo - I watched last night from about 12 rows up and you can really see a lot - moreso than on TV. AI would be good for Conley because they are everything each other isn't and I think it would help Conley to have a guy who pushes the tempo and the game to watch and learn from. They are all so young and nobody with credibility is there to kick their butt and hold them accountable on the floor (every team has to have that). Every one of our key guys less Randolph, who is 28 going on 25, are young. They are good dudes too and I am just thinking rooting for them and encouraging them is better than wanting to jettison them (at least more times than not - I wanted to throw Rudy off the team or trade him at least 3 times on the west coast swing, and he is my favorite Griz). We shall see...
With the right coach, this roster of players could make the playoffs. There's that much talent on the team. They just need a good coach to point them in the right direction.
(11-11-2009 01:39 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Derrick is a rare talent. Not many guys step in at his age and do what he did. He is EXTREMELY rare, especially at the PG position. he has struggled some this year though...he is on my fantasy bball team and he isn't putting up the numbers he did at the end of last year.
Plus, he has more mature talent around him...
Conley is putting up respectable numbers, but he needs to run the game more in my mind.
he went off for a respectable 7 pts and 4 asst last night
(11-11-2009 12:30 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ]Thabeet will not be a good or bad draft pick for 3 years, period. He is a project. Let's discuss whether he was a good pick 3 years from now. If he is averaging 12pts, 9 rebs, and 2.5 blocks then or anywhere close, I am ok with the pick. If he is playing 16 minutes, and averaging 6,4, and 1, then he was an awful pick, especially if Conley lives down to where everyone thinks he is and will be. I still think we should have picked Evans (even posted as such) as we need a guy who can drive the ball from the perimeter. But, you can't teach 7'3", and I at least understand the pick and the thought process, whether I agree or not. I am just taking a pass and resigning myself that it will be a few years. (how does the Pau trade look now as opposed to then - then - cap space, now - Z-Bo and Marc. I like it much better now and NO one expected Marc to be as good as he has become - go back and read the comments- he was a "throw in"). So, let's let it play out.
Thabeet was a bad draft pick even if he turns out to have the second best career of all the players in the draft. Precisley becuase he's a project, you aren't really expecting production until his third year or so. Which means, even if he turns out to be good, you are vastly overpaying him. Not only that, after you've overpaid him for his rookie contract, there's no gaurantee that you'll be able to negotiate a second one. If you don't, now you've overpaid to develop someone else's center.
I'd be far less incensed over this pick if Thabeet had wowed them in his pre-draft workout. But he didn't even work out. And he didn't need to becasue Hesley was telegraphing to the entire world that he was going to take Thabeet with that pick come hell or high water. That should have sent up huge red flags.
Childers is right. There are fundamental things that they just don't get and that goes all the way back to coaching. If he is coaching it then its a lack of respect by the players. This team has the talent, but Hollins was maybe a worse move than AI at this point. There are no 2-3-4-5 year plans in professional sports. You either win now with young talent and great coaching or you buy your way into the playoffs with a high $$$ roster and let the talent win it for you.
(11-11-2009 05:13 PM)Briskbas Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:30 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ]Thabeet will not be a good or bad draft pick for 3 years, period. He is a project. Let's discuss whether he was a good pick 3 years from now. If he is averaging 12pts, 9 rebs, and 2.5 blocks then or anywhere close, I am ok with the pick. If he is playing 16 minutes, and averaging 6,4, and 1, then he was an awful pick, especially if Conley lives down to where everyone thinks he is and will be. I still think we should have picked Evans (even posted as such) as we need a guy who can drive the ball from the perimeter. But, you can't teach 7'3", and I at least understand the pick and the thought process, whether I agree or not. I am just taking a pass and resigning myself that it will be a few years. (how does the Pau trade look now as opposed to then - then - cap space, now - Z-Bo and Marc. I like it much better now and NO one expected Marc to be as good as he has become - go back and read the comments- he was a "throw in"). So, let's let it play out.
Thabeet was a bad draft pick even if he turns out to have the second best career of all the players in the draft. Precisley becuase he's a project, you aren't really expecting production until his third year or so. Which means, even if he turns out to be good, you are vastly overpaying him. Not only that, after you've overpaid him for his rookie contract, there's no gaurantee that you'll be able to negotiate a second one. If you don't, now you've overpaid to develop someone else's center.
I'd be far less incensed over this pick if Thabeet had wowed them in his pre-draft workout. But he didn't even work out. And he didn't need to becasue Hesley was telegraphing to the entire world that he was going to take Thabeet with that pick come hell or high water. That should have sent up huge red flags.
can't say I disagree, but if you believe that you can draft a guy who comes along once in 10 years as a huge, shot blocking, game changing center, you have to do it because they are rare. The issue is that not many believe he is that. All I am saying is that if he turns out to be Dikembe Mutombo, I am ok with that because so few of those guys come out. You get more Sam Bowies and Kwame Browns than Shaquille O'Neals and Dwight Howards. You still need a good big guy. Gasol will never be a shot blocker and Thabeet will never have either Gasol's offensive ability, but if he rebounds and block shots and keeps guys shooting jumpers, he could be worth it.
Ever since I watched the guy get owned by Joey Dorsey almost 3 years ago, I have not been a fan. But, I am willing to give the guy a shot, even if it takes 3 years. I personally would have drafted 'Reke because we need a guy who is a fearless penetrator.
(11-11-2009 05:11 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 01:39 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Derrick is a rare talent. Not many guys step in at his age and do what he did. He is EXTREMELY rare, especially at the PG position. he has struggled some this year though...he is on my fantasy bball team and he isn't putting up the numbers he did at the end of last year.
Plus, he has more mature talent around him...
Conley is putting up respectable numbers, but he needs to run the game more in my mind.
he went off for a respectable 7 pts and 4 asst last night
Nobody played that well last night, but he did fine running the team. He put guys in good positions, they couldn't score and he was respectable against Steve Blake.
Love it, stick up for the guy and he lays an egg tonight. Thanks Mike....
(11-11-2009 05:06 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]With the right coach, this roster of players could make the playoffs. There's that much talent on the team. They just need a good coach to point them in the right direction.
You post some funny stuff. This is almost as good as your "there are only 3 to 5 decent players in every draft and the rest suck" comment the other day. No way any coach gets this exact group in the playoffs this year. A really top notch nba coach could get them some more wins..... but not the playoffs.
(11-11-2009 10:10 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ]Love it, stick up for the guy and he lays an egg tonight. Thanks Mike....
Mike conley isn't that bad. He is inconsistent. He just isn't the right point guard for the grizz.
Thabeet will never be that good.....even 3 years from now.
Toney, I hope for our sake you are wrong. :)
(11-11-2009 08:43 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 05:11 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 01:39 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Derrick is a rare talent. Not many guys step in at his age and do what he did. He is EXTREMELY rare, especially at the PG position. he has struggled some this year though...he is on my fantasy bball team and he isn't putting up the numbers he did at the end of last year.
Plus, he has more mature talent around him...
Conley is putting up respectable numbers, but he needs to run the game more in my mind.
he went off for a respectable 7 pts and 4 asst last night
Nobody played that well last night, but he did fine running the team. He put guys in good positions, they couldn't score and he was respectable against Steve Blake.
he is shooting the Rockets out of the gym tonight with all 2 points he has so far
as stated - I stick up for the guy and he lays an egg...go figure :)
Conely is God awful. I'm watching this Rockets game right now and it is clear this is a bad team. And no, we will not turn it around and win 30 or 40 something games. It's just delusional. This is a young core who sucks. I'm already hopeing we'll be forunate enough to draft John Wall. Right now I would move Mayo to the point, bring Young up to SG, and leave Gasol, Zbo, and Gay where they are. I know how it sounds, but what the hell. We aren't going to do any better. Might as well experiment.
2 points I dont care if AI is the biggest cancer on earth mike conley couldnt hold his jock
(11-11-2009 12:30 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ]I am as frustrated as anyone that the Griz are 1-7, I think they have too much talent to be there and they are a few plays away from being a respectable 3-5 or 4-4 (that would be ok after a 5 game west coast swing)...
I feel your pain dude. Change a few more plays after those you mentioned and this team is or 7-2 or 8-1. Then change their owner to one that isn't just holding on until he can sell the team to one who is willing to spend money to win -- and all of a sudden this is a solid team with a couple of NBA All Star candidates, a real attendance average of 15,000+, no talk of a move within five years, NBA playoffs every year, and a possible NBA Championship game.
(11-11-2009 10:53 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]2 points I dont care if AI is the biggest cancer on earth mike conley couldnt hold his jock
The biggest case of mismanagement EVER. If AI says start me, you start him if you're the Grizzlies. They deserve this like no other management in the NBA. What a group of absolute jokes. JOKES!
(11-11-2009 10:28 PM)tmoneyinmphs Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 05:06 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]With the right coach, this roster of players could make the playoffs. There's that much talent on the team. They just need a good coach to point them in the right direction.
You post some funny stuff. This is almost as good as your "there are only 3 to 5 decent players in every draft and the rest suck" comment the other day. No way any coach gets this exact group in the playoffs this year. A really top notch nba coach could get them some more wins..... but not the playoffs.
Last year's team had injury problems and switched coaches midseason. They also had less talent and they still won 24 games. This year they add Z-Bo at the four, which was the weakest link in the starting lineup.
Hollins needs to go and they need to find a real coach. They are losing to teams with less talent. A better coach would have five or six more wins already.
(11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Please tell me you don't think that 10 games is the norm...
(11-12-2009 12:26 AM)kabluey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Please tell me you don't think that 10 games is the norm...
no my point is mike conley is the worst pg in memphis including all colleges and high schools and some rec leagues
(11-12-2009 12:29 AM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:26 AM)kabluey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Please tell me you don't think that 10 games is the norm...
no my point is mike conley is the worst pg in memphis including all colleges and high schools and some rec leagues
If you really believe that, you know absolutely nothing about basketball.
(11-12-2009 08:52 AM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:29 AM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:26 AM)kabluey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Please tell me you don't think that 10 games is the norm...
no my point is mike conley is the worst pg in memphis including all colleges and high schools and some rec leagues
If you really believe that, you know absolutely nothing about basketball.
(11-12-2009 08:52 AM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:29 AM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:26 AM)kabluey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Please tell me you don't think that 10 games is the norm...
no my point is mike conley is the worst pg in memphis including all colleges and high schools and some rec leagues
If you really believe that, you know absolutely nothing about basketball.
yea your right he is amazing. You can add up his stats for 3 games and they wouldnt even be repectable. If you think Mike conley is good you know nothing about basketball
I believe that they need to cut bait on Conley or keep him as a backup. Conley at best will be another Brevin Knight. He may be good to keep on the team as he appears to be a good citizen but to pass him off as a starting NBA point guard is insulting to those of us who follow this team and want it to succeed. Also they need to "Drew Gooden" Thabeet.
I feel that Iverson was a good pick up and would have been starting within a month. Unfortunately, he was as predictable as nearly everyone foretold. I was disappointed that Iverson so easily fell in the box everyone was putting him in.
(11-12-2009 09:53 AM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 08:52 AM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:29 AM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:26 AM)kabluey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Please tell me you don't think that 10 games is the norm...
no my point is mike conley is the worst pg in memphis including all colleges and high schools and some rec leagues
If you really believe that, you know absolutely nothing about basketball.
yea your right he is amazing. You can add up his stats for 3 games and they wouldnt even be repectable. If you think Mike conley is good you know nothing about basketball
I AGREE!!!
Jrox and Memphisfan -he is NOT as bad as you say. I also don't think he is franchise level guy. I think he has improved this year. I am not convinced he is going to be a guy that needs to go on the scrap heap nor do we give him a max contract because he is THE guy. I am still on record to say I wished we had drafted someone else to play PG from this last draft, namely Evans.
I think for anyone to say he is the franchise PG, or say he is the worst PG in Memphis, is off base. That was the whole point above. There were other PG's given up for dead (Billups, Nash, etc.) or were never thought to be THE guy on a championship level team (Rondo sure got criticized his first few years) that got better after several years - it finally clicked and I hope Conley can be that guy. It may never work out. There were guys drafted in the same draft range as him that panned out better (D. Williams, Chris Paul to name a few).
Looking back, here was that draft, who would you have taken, looking back? I see a few names, but not many. Horford was the guy we wanted:
1. Portland Greg Oden
2. Seattle Kevin Durant
3. Atlanta Al Horford
4. Memphis Mike Conley JR
5. Boston Jeff Green
6. Milwaukee Yi Jianlian
7. Minnesota Corey Brewer
8. Charlotte Brendan Wright
9. Chicago Joakim Noah
10. Sacramento Spencer Hawes
11. Atlanta Acie Law IV
12. Philadelphia Thaddeus Young
13 New Orleans Julian Wright
14. LA Clippers Al Thornton
15. Detroit Rodney Stuckey
16. Washington Nick Young
17. New Jersey Sean Williams
18. Golden State Marco Belinelli
19. LA Lakers Javaris Crittenton
20. Miami Jason Smith
21. Philadelphia Daequan COok
22. Charlotte Jared Dudley
23. New York Wilson Chandler
24. Phoenix Rudy Fernandez
25. Utah Morris Almond
26. Houston Aaron Brooks
27. Detroit Arron Afflalo
28. San Antonio Tiago Splitter
29. Phoenix Alando Tucker
30. Phailadelphia Petteri Koponen
31. Seattle Carl Landry
32. Boston Gabe Pruitt
33. San Antonio Marcus Williams
34. Dallas Nick Fazekas
35. Seattle Glen Davis
36. Golden State Jermareo Davidson
37. Portland Josh McRoberts
38. Philadelphia Kyrylo Fesenko
39. Miami Stanko Barac
40. LA Lakers Sun Yue
41. Minnesota Chris Richard
42. Portland Derrick Byars
43. Now Orlenad Adam Haluska
44. Orlando Reyshawn Terry
45. LA Clippers Jared Jordan
46. Golden State Stephane Lasme
47. Washington Dominic McGuire
48. LA Lakers Marc Gasol
49. Chicago Aaron Gray
50. Dallas Renaldas Seibutis
51. Chicago Jameson Curry
52. Portland Taurean Green
53. Portland Demetris Nichols
54. Houston Brad Newley
55. Utah Herbert Hill
56. Milwaukee Ramon Sessions
57. Detroit Sammy Mejia
58. San Antonio Giorgos Printezis
59. Phoenix D.J. Strawberry
60. Dallas Milovan Rakovic
yea hes the guy alright... that scored 2 points last night
(11-12-2009 02:06 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]yea hes the guy alright... that scored 2 points last night
Ok, you hate Conley - understood, I get it. Be GM since '07 and tell me what you'd do. I am not saying this because I disagree, I just want to know who you value.
Tell me who you would have drafted/traded for given the deals that have been on the table. I am curious. I will offer mine as well. Just so you know, Conley would be on the bench as well, but I just want to see where you stand.
(11-12-2009 09:53 AM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 08:52 AM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:29 AM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 12:26 AM)kabluey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2009 12:34 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]it only took derrick rose about 10 games to get use to the nba why should we give conley 3 years?
Please tell me you don't think that 10 games is the norm...
no my point is mike conley is the worst pg in memphis including all colleges and high schools and some rec leagues
If you really believe that, you know absolutely nothing about basketball.
yea your right he is amazing. You can add up his stats for 3 games and they wouldnt even be repectable. If you think Mike conley is good you know nothing about basketball
Maybe we could dial down the hyperbole a tad...
All these rocket scientists on here think they can trade Conley and Thabeet for LeBron. Let me know how that works out for you.
(11-12-2009 03:16 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]All these rocket scientists on here think they can trade Conley and Thabeet for LeBron. Let me know how that works out for you.
and you think Conley is going to be the next Chris Paul. Let me know how that works out.
(11-12-2009 06:04 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 03:16 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]All these rocket scientists on here think they can trade Conley and Thabeet for LeBron. Let me know how that works out for you.
and you think Conley is going to be the next Chris Paul. Let me know how that works out.
Never said that. Just said he was better than an over the hill, sloppy, ball hog, selfish, locker room cancer.
(11-12-2009 02:25 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 02:06 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]yea hes the guy alright... that scored 2 points last night
Ok, you hate Conley - understood, I get it. Be GM since '07 and tell me what you'd do. I am not saying this because I disagree, I just want to know who you value.
Tell me who you would have drafted/traded for given the deals that have been on the table. I am curious. I will offer mine as well. Just so you know, Conley would be on the bench as well, but I just want to see where you stand.
MemphisFan - still looking for your ideas. You don't like Conley and we understand. Can you offer what you would have done different over the last 3 seasons? Again, not being an a$$ - just wanting to know what you would do - constructively.
(11-12-2009 06:09 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 06:04 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 03:16 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]All these rocket scientists on here think they can trade Conley and Thabeet for LeBron. Let me know how that works out for you.
and you think Conley is going to be the next Chris Paul. Let me know how that works out.
Never said that. Just said he was better than an over the hill, sloppy, ball hog, selfish, locker room cancer.
never said that we could trade him and thabust for James either. Just said that he isnt better than the over the hill ,sloppy,ball hog, selfish,locker room cancer. and his current play has proven me right
(11-12-2009 06:44 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 02:25 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 02:06 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]yea hes the guy alright... that scored 2 points last night
Ok, you hate Conley - understood, I get it. Be GM since '07 and tell me what you'd do. I am not saying this because I disagree, I just want to know who you value.
Tell me who you would have drafted/traded for given the deals that have been on the table. I am curious. I will offer mine as well. Just so you know, Conley would be on the bench as well, but I just want to see where you stand.
MemphisFan - still looking for your ideas. You don't like Conley and we understand. Can you offer what you would have done different over the last 3 seasons? Again, not being an a$$ - just wanting to know what you would do - constructively.
If I am the GM then Conley goes Lowrey stays. His stats are right on par some a little better than Conley's and he is a back up who makes a million less than conley. I draft Evans not Thabeet, I dont think thabeet is better than Haddadi.ALso instead of drafting DeMarre Carol I would have drafted Dejuan Blair. Thats what I would have done wether it would work or not who knows but this sure isnt.
(11-12-2009 07:21 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 06:44 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 02:25 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 02:06 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ]yea hes the guy alright... that scored 2 points last night
Ok, you hate Conley - understood, I get it. Be GM since '07 and tell me what you'd do. I am not saying this because I disagree, I just want to know who you value.
Tell me who you would have drafted/traded for given the deals that have been on the table. I am curious. I will offer mine as well. Just so you know, Conley would be on the bench as well, but I just want to see where you stand.
MemphisFan - still looking for your ideas. You don't like Conley and we understand. Can you offer what you would have done different over the last 3 seasons? Again, not being an a$$ - just wanting to know what you would do - constructively.
If I am the GM then Conley goes Lowrey stays. His stats are right on par some a little better than Conley's and he is a back up who makes a million less than conley. I draft Evans not Thabeet, I dont think thabeet is better than Haddadi.ALso instead of drafting DeMarre Carol I would have drafted Dejuan Blair. Thats what I would have done wether it would work or not who knows but this sure isnt.
I still would have drafted Conley in '07. Noah may have been attractive, but he was/is limited on offense. Not sure I wanted to waste a #4 pick on him.
I would have done the deal with Mayo/Love - we got the better of that deal. I would have drafted CDR instead of Donte Green which turned into Darrell Arthur. I would have liked a trade for Westbrook too.
I would have either taken 'Reke, or packaged something to get a good player for the #2 pick. There had to be some kind of deal out there. I would never have drafted Thabeet. Big guys in the draft have a bigger chance to bust. But, I do understand the mentality of you can't teach that kind of size, but I don't agree with it. That also would have gotten you Shawn Bradley (#2 in 1992)and Manute Bol.
Crazy as this sounds, I still like the Battier/Gay deal in '06. Battier is what he is, and I love the guy, but Gay has a crazy upside if he ever figures it out. I would have taken that chance. I would entertain an offer for Gay, but it better be a good one. Gay is still the best pure talent on this team. He is more talented than OJ in my opinion.
I am not sure I would have pulled the trigger on the Z-Bo deal - always loved his talent, just not his attitude. He has been great so far, but what happens when we keep losing? I would be talking to him about extending now - he and Gasol play well together.
I would have tried to get a lot more for Pau Gasol. I think Wallace lost a ton of credibility because I believe he convinced Heisley he wouldn't get much more for Gasol. Heisley got snowed and I think that is why he is doing what he is doing now. Getting Marc was great, but the expiring contract of Kwame wasn't enough. I think we could have gotten a good player as well as what we got.
Still not a Dejuan Blair fan. So, I am neutral on the Carroll/Blair/Young discussion. I don't think Blair helps us any more than those guys do. He is undersized and not a great athlete. He and Carroll will be a wash in their career in my opinion. Young has a decent upside.
I would have never let Hak walk and would have never, ever signed Iverson. But, if I had signed him, he would be starting over Conley. He could help Mike be more aggressive. Mike could learn a lot from AI. But, AI is a bad fit on a rebuilding team. I would have tried to trade Hak and Conley or Lowry, but I wouldn't have traded Conley for Sessions as was discussed last year - that is no gain.
I probably wouldn't have let Lowry go either. He is a good backup Pg, although he makes a lot of mistakes. He plays hard and changes the tempo, so I would have hung on to him. You won't get a pick between 25-35 that was any better than him in my mind. You gained nothing by making that trade.
(11-12-2009 07:13 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 06:09 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 06:04 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 03:16 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]All these rocket scientists on here think they can trade Conley and Thabeet for LeBron. Let me know how that works out for you.
and you think Conley is going to be the next Chris Paul. Let me know how that works out.
Never said that. Just said he was better than an over the hill, sloppy, ball hog, selfish, locker room cancer.
never said that we could trade him and thabust for James either. Just said that he isnt better than the over the hill ,sloppy,ball hog, selfish,locker room cancer. and his current play has proven me right
You'd be wrong. AI isn't contributing at all because he's pouting about playing time.
(11-13-2009 10:16 AM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 07:13 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 06:09 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 06:04 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2009 03:16 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]All these rocket scientists on here think they can trade Conley and Thabeet for LeBron. Let me know how that works out for you.
and you think Conley is going to be the next Chris Paul. Let me know how that works out.
Never said that. Just said he was better than an over the hill, sloppy, ball hog, selfish, locker room cancer.
never said that we could trade him and thabust for James either. Just said that he isnt better than the over the hill ,sloppy,ball hog, selfish,locker room cancer. and his current play has proven me right
You'd be wrong. AI isn't contributing at all because he's pouting about playing time.
Hell he wasnt even in the gym and his numbers were almost the same as Conleys against the Rockets
The Grizzlies have the dumbest owner in the NBA. Folks even know this down here in Dallas. Boy were these guys down here pissed about the Pau trade....I hate it for Memphis, but the Tigers are soon to be the lone tennant of FedEx Forum.
(11-12-2009 09:59 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ]I still would have drafted Conley in '07. Noah may have been attractive, but he was/is limited on offense. Not sure I wanted to waste a #4 pick on him.
I agree that Conley was a good pick that hasn't panned out. It happens and it's hard to fault the Grizzlies for this one.
Quote:I would have done the deal with Mayo/Love - we got the better of that deal. I would have drafted CDR instead of Donte Green which turned into Darrell Arthur. I would have liked a trade for Westbrook too.
I understand why they picked up Arthur. I also understand why so many teams passed on CDR (although it just makes it all the more mystifying that the Grizz turn around and waste their 2nd overall pick this year on a guy that wouldn't work out). That said, it would be nice to have CDR. But if you do take him last year, having an extra front court player might make Thabeet all the more appealing this year.
I still don't take him. Having CDR certainly affects your later picks, though. Maybe you pick up Blair instead of Carroll in that case.
Quote:I would have either taken 'Reke, or packaged something to get a good player for the #2 pick. There had to be some kind of deal out there. I would never have drafted Thabeet. Big guys in the draft have a bigger chance to bust. But, I do understand the mentality of you can't teach that kind of size, but I don't agree with it. That also would have gotten you Shawn Bradley (#2 in 1992)and Manute Bol.
The big thing here is to not telegraph your intentions on who you are taking with the pick to the entire league, especially in such a weak draft. If they really, really wanted Thabeet, imo (if) they could have traded down to 4 or 5, he probably still would have been there. That way they would have gotten more for their pick, and what they paid for Thabeet would be more in line with his expected value. But everyone knew they wanted Thabeet and everyone knew what would be around after their pick. Why trade up in that situation?
However, I don't think moving the pick would really have been feasible. In this draft no matter who the Griz picked, I think everyone would have been OK with what was left afterward.
Evans is the obvious choice with the pick in hindsight. I don't know whether or not he'd be who I was looking at in June.
Quote:Crazy as this sounds, I still like the Battier/Gay deal in '06. Battier is what he is, and I love the guy, but Gay has a crazy upside if he ever figures it out. I would have taken that chance. I would entertain an offer for Gay, but it better be a good one. Gay is still the best pure talent on this team. He is more talented than OJ in my opinion.
I am not sure I would have pulled the trigger on the Z-Bo deal - always loved his talent, just not his attitude. He has been great so far, but what happens when we keep losing? I would be talking to him about extending now - he and Gasol play well together.
I'm agnostic on the Battier/Gay deal. I understand why they did it. I'm not sure they got the better of the deal, though (they went from winning to losing after the deal, that's for sure). I would certainly be looking to move Gay right now. He isn't worth what he's eventually going to get paid. If you don't move him now, all you get back in return is cap space.
As to Z-Bo, I probably wouldn't pull the trigger on that, I don't know where that money goes, but it doesn't go to him. Having signed him, based on his reputation, there is no way that I'm extending anything until next year. I'm certainly not doing anything based on his attitude after 10 games. If you don't sign Randolph, the Grizzlies desperately need a starting PF, preferably one that compliments Marc. (i.e. an athletic guy that can defend down low)
Quote:I would have tried to get a lot more for Pau Gasol. I think Wallace lost a ton of credibility because I believe he convinced Heisley he wouldn't get much more for Gasol. Heisley got snowed and I think that is why he is doing what he is doing now. Getting Marc was great, but the expiring contract of Kwame wasn't enough. I think we could have gotten a good player as well as what we got.
The thing about the Gasol trade is that if we had done essentially the same deal with the Raptors, no one would have said anything about it. But since it was the Lakers....
That said, Marc was supposed to be filler when we picked up his rights. No one knew he was going to be that good. I think everybody in the universe agrees we should have got more out of Pau.
Quote:Still not a Dejuan Blair fan. So, I am neutral on the Carroll/Blair/Young discussion. I don't think Blair helps us any more than those guys do. He is undersized and not a great athlete. He and Carroll will be a wash in their career in my opinion. Young has a decent upside.
See above, re, CDR. I don't know much about Blair, but, as the roster stands now we desperately need a someone who can defend down low. If you have CDR on the Roster, it may be worth taking Blair over Carrol.
Quote:I would have never let Hak walk and would have never, ever signed Iverson. But, if I had signed him, he would be starting over Conley. He could help Mike be more aggressive. Mike could learn a lot from AI. But, AI is a bad fit on a rebuilding team. I would have tried to trade Hak and Conley or Lowry, but I wouldn't have traded Conley for Sessions as was discussed last year - that is no gain.
I don't know about never letting Hak walk. That depends on other decisions were made in the off-season. I certainly don't rescind the qualifying offer unless and until I'm think I'm set in the frontcourt and with bench scoring. If I do keep him, I pay for him with the money I save not bringing in AI.
Quote:I probably wouldn't have let Lowry go either. He is a good backup Pg, although he makes a lot of mistakes. He plays hard and changes the tempo, so I would have hung on to him. You won't get a pick between 25-35 that was any better than him in my mind. You gained nothing by making that trade.
If I'm taking someone that's going to be playing a lot of time at the one, ethier replacing Conley or backing him up, which I probably would have, then Lowry isn't worth much on this team. If you don't trade him, the Blair/Carroll debate is obviously moot.
(11-13-2009 12:29 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote: [ -> ]The Grizzlies have the dumbest owner in the NBA. Folks even know this down here in Dallas. Boy were these guys down here pissed about the Pau trade....I hate it for Memphis, but the Tigers are soon to be the lone tennant of FedEx Forum.
The Grizzlies aren't going anywhere. It's too expensive to move the team right now. The franchise is actually profitable. And I don't think anyone is building a stadium for Heisley at this point.
(11-13-2009 12:37 PM)Briskbas Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2009 12:29 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote: [ -> ]The Grizzlies have the dumbest owner in the NBA. Folks even know this down here in Dallas. Boy were these guys down here pissed about the Pau trade....I hate it for Memphis, but the Tigers are soon to be the lone tennant of FedEx Forum.
The Grizzlies aren't going anywhere. It's too expensive to move the team right now. The franchise is actually profitable. And I don't think anyone is building a stadium for Heisley at this point.
I noticed you said the Grizzlies wouldn't being leaving "right now" but that's because of the penalty imposed "right now." But that penalty steps down over the next few years and if everything stays as it is there is no way that the Grizzlies will remain here. You have an owner who lives in Chicago and they'll almost certainly leave if sold.
And as far as a "profitable franchise" that's certainly not because of fan support. Calkins said there was about 4000 in actual attendance at the last home game. It's because Fat Mike Heisley refuses to spend any money to fix the team, reducing the players on the team to the bare required minimum, and it's because of money shared by the league with all teams. A team cut to bare bones like this one, despite the lack of ticket income, would be 'profitable' anywhere. Being 'profitable' under these conditions is a sign of an owner who has quit even trying and is just parking his team until the conditions allow him to sell. To be honest I would be surprised if this team is here in five years.
Briskbas - great post above...I liked your insights.
Tigers2B1 - I was at the last Grizzlies game and there were probably 10k there - attendance was announced at 10,589.
(11-13-2009 02:56 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ]Tigers2B1 - I was at the last Grizzlies game and there were probably 10k there - attendance was announced at 10,589.
Sorry but I don't believe that. First, do you really believe that the Grizzlies tell you the truth when they announce attendance? They don't and haven't for years. I've been to games where the place was less than half full and the Grizzlies announced 15000+ in attendance. As a rule of thumb just take whatever the Grizzlies announce and half that to get the actual attendance.
Second, the game was shown on the NBA package and those announcers were actually making fun of the fact that there was almost no one there. Then Calkins comes on his radio show and says that there were "about 4000" there.
Anyway, I stand by my previous post. The Grizzlies moving, their cheap owner, parking the team until then, and the poor attendance.
(11-13-2009 03:22 PM)Tigers2B1 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2009 02:56 PM)jtgavigan Wrote: [ -> ]Tigers2B1 - I was at the last Grizzlies game and there were probably 10k there - attendance was announced at 10,589.
Sorry but I don't believe that. First, do you really believe that the Grizzlies tell you the truth when they announce attendance? They don't and haven't for years. I've been to games where the place was less than half full and the Grizzlies announced 15000+ in attendance. As a rule of thumb just take whatever the Grizzlies announce and half that to get the actual attendance.
Second, the game was shown on the NBA package and those announcers were actually making fun of the fact that there was almost no one there. Then Calkins comes on his radio show and says that there were "about 4000" there.
Anyway, I stand by my previous post. The Grizzlies moving, their cheap owner, parking the team until then, and the poor attendance.
Dude, I was AT the game, there was 10,000 people there - it was just about half full. Trust me. I know the difference between 4,000 and 10,000 - it isn't that hard to figure out.
You have to remember, the announcing crew was from the Blazers and they are used to a filled up Rose Garden, so anything looks empty.