I have been reading reports over the last couple of days regarding unrest, demonstrations, and riots in many parts of the Muslim world. These have started after the reprinting of the Political Cartoons in European countries as a sign of solidarity with the Danish newspaper that originally published them.
This outcry by members of the Muslim faith shows a fundamental difference between religious fundamentalism and the ideals our country was founded upon. It shows the clear rift between the enlightened and those who hold fundamentalist beliefs. It shows why the fundamentalist world will NEVER be integrated with a modern society. It shows why our government and those of Europe must NEVER give into public sentiment emanating form the Muslim world, or be fearful of terrorists coming from there.
You cannot talk with these folks, you CANNOT argue or debate, because the fundamental underpinnings of their beliefs do not allow them to understand any other point of view.
I submit that it is fully possible to be both enlightened and God-fearing. An enlightened viewpoint on this is that the relationship with God is personal - and that it depends WHOLLY on the personal relationship with God, not on what others do. This is the fundamental underpinning of our countries (and most of the Western Worlds) Establishment and Practice laws surrounding religion. That neither the government nor individuals have the right to keep or force someone to a certain religious belief.
If I want to draw a picture and publish it of Muhammed and Jesus going Brokeback - so be it. It may offend you, but I have done nothing wrong and certianly this drawing should not weaken your beliefs or actions regarding Christianity or Islam.
For goodness sake, STOP THE INSANITY - take care of yourself, take care of your relationship with your God, leave me the F alone with your fundamentalist points of view. Keep your 10 commandments out of my public places, keep your prayers away from my kids in government sponsored instituations, yell at me if you like for my beliefs if you like - but expect to be shot if you attempt to harm me or my family.
And by the way, I know there are many good people in Muslim countries and I understand that much of the violence in reality comes from poverty and not their religous beliefs - but this fundamentalist point of view gives a channel for the aggression,.
they're more than just your public places.
I agree totally. It puts into perspective how things are in this country. These Muslims make Roy Moore look like an atheist. There is no sense in killing people and burning down consulates over a damn cartoon.
This type of religious persecution and intolerance takes place closer to home than you think. We are dealing with a few cases right now where evangelicals have been arrested, had their water and electricity turned off, and their houses burned in several places around Mexico in the past year. Two years ago we had three people shot because they were evangelicals.
BatesUAB Wrote:I agree totally. It puts into perspective how things are in this country. These Muslims make Roy Moore look like an atheist. There is no sense in killing people and burning down consulates over a damn cartoon.
First of all, it is against Islam to portray the Prophet Muhammad, or any pictures of what God might look like for the fear that they could lead to idolatry. Likewise, it is against their religion to portray any other prophet, including Jesus or Moses, because they also revere those religious figures as well.
I fully respect freedom of the press and expression, but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner should not be acceptable.
So these cartoons really hit a nerve as far as their religion is concerned. Most people in the Arab world are not necessarily very extreme in their religiosity, but they are religious people, so this totally goes against their basic beliefs.
yeah, thats all good and well, but how many christians did u see attack art museums when "Piss Christ" was displayed? the fact is that these people are f*ckin nuts. those cartoons were no more offensive than some cartoons that run in the US or the ones who call all the red states "jesusland." quit trying to make excuses for them just acting like barbarians.
dfarr Wrote:yeah, thats all good and well, but how many christians did u see attack art museums when "Piss Christ" was displayed? the fact is that these people are f*ckin nuts. those cartoons were no more offensive than some cartoons that run in the US or the ones who call all the red states "jesusland." quit trying to make excuses for them just acting like barbarians.
its not the question of displayin jesus or prohpet as a terrorist..as i told before one of the basic principles of Islam is to not draw or display any pictures of their prohpet or god... once you attack the basic principles on which their religion is formed it will kinda piss of anyone...also the only they are demanding is an apology which the Danish prime minister has said hes not gonna do it for the newspapers...
CrazyBlazer Wrote:dfarr Wrote:yeah, thats all good and well, but how many christians did u see attack art museums when "Piss Christ" was displayed? the fact is that these people are f*ckin nuts. those cartoons were no more offensive than some cartoons that run in the US or the ones who call all the red states "jesusland." quit trying to make excuses for them just acting like barbarians.
its not the question of displayin jesus or prohpet as a terrorist..as i told before one of the basic principles of Islam is to not draw or display any pictures of their prohpet or god... once you attack the basic principles on which their religion is formed it will kinda piss of anyone...also the only they are demanding is an apology which the Danish prime minister has said hes not gonna do it for the newspapers...
being pissed of is different from being part of an angry mob.
My thoughts:
1. You can't be sacreligious if you aren't a part of that religion.
2. It is also one of Christianity's basic principals not to take the Lord's name in vain. Says so in the Ten Commandments. You see it happen every day, and we aren't burning down embassies as a result. So you can't excuse what the muslims are doing because someone violated their religious laws.
3. Christians have had their God portrayed in a cartoon many times. Each week South Park has a character portrayed as Jesus. Baptists didn't threaten to burn down Comedy Central.
4. I know there are many good muslims who do not condone the actions of the extremists, just like many good Christians do not condone the actions of those who bomb abortion clinics.
yeah, u didnt see catholics burning down hollywood over the movie "Dogma"
dfarr Wrote:yeah, u didnt see catholics burning down hollywood over the movie "Dogma"
But they were a bit pissed:
Quote:Although there was no opposition to the film while the actual filming and pre-production was taking place, the following months of post-production and publicity were plagued with controversy over a perceived anti-Christian message read into the film. Over time, the filmmakers received over 300,000 pieces of hatemail (including several death threats) and were the target of a campaign from the Catholic League. The Catholic League (U.S.) in particular attacked Disney and Miramax, the original distributors, for being anti-Catholic. The film's distribution rights, however, were eventually sold to Lion's Gate.
When the film actually came out, Kevin Smith and Bryan Johnson participated in a protest at the Sony Multiplex in Eatontown, New Jersey, carrying a sign which read "Dogma is Dogshit." A news crew captured the incident and broadcast an interview with a disguised Smith on the evening Channel 12 news.
being pissed and burning down buildings are a bit different dont u think? there's no way you can justify it sarah. i know all these loony muslim terrorists are just "freedom fighters" and whatnot, but to some of us they are loony muslims who want to kill non-muslims, namely americans.
dfarr Wrote:being pissed and burning down buildings are a bit different dont u think? there's no way you can justify it sarah. i know all these loony muslim terrorists are just "freedom fighters" and whatnot, but to some of us they are loony muslims who want to kill non-muslims, namely americans.
Quote:(including several death threats)
it sounds like some of the catholics wanted to kill americans too
dfarr Wrote:yeah, u didnt see catholics burning down hollywood over the movie "Dogma"
Well, I tried, but I couldn't get the "H" in the H-O-L-L-Y-W-O-O-D sign to burn. Stinking cheap matches.
(On the off chance any FBI agents are on the forum--this is a joke.)
Sarahbelle18 Wrote:dfarr Wrote:being pissed and burning down buildings are a bit different dont u think? there's no way you can justify it sarah. i know all these loony muslim terrorists are just "freedom fighters" and whatnot, but to some of us they are loony muslims who want to kill non-muslims, namely americans.
Quote:(including several death threats)
it sounds like some of the catholics wanted to kill americans too
but did anyone actually do anything other than threaten people? did they go and burn down the studios? throw rocks and shoot at producers? quit making excuses sarah. we know that u hate the military and love the nutty muslims. we know that u think we should all sympathize w/ them. we all know that you're full of sh*t.
No, dfarr, youre a close-minded bigot who thinks that Muslims are sooooo wild and crazy and that they're the only religious group that has overzealous participants. Do the bombings in Birmingham, Atlanta, and Oklahoma ring a bell? They were done by fundamentalist Christians. It may seem stupid to you to be pissed off by a cartoon, but you shouldn't feel that just because one group doesn't get upset over it that none should have a right to. I'm not taking the side of Muslims by any means and everybody has a right to their opinion, but that includes Muslims that take offense to it.
dfarr Wrote:Sarahbelle18 Wrote:dfarr Wrote:being pissed and burning down buildings are a bit different dont u think? there's no way you can justify it sarah. i know all these loony muslim terrorists are just "freedom fighters" and whatnot, but to some of us they are loony muslims who want to kill non-muslims, namely americans.
Quote:(including several death threats)
it sounds like some of the catholics wanted to kill americans too
we know that u hate the military
Oh, and remind me what any of this thread has to do with the military and why you would say that I hate the military.
Sarahbelle18 Wrote:No, dfarr, youre a close-minded bigot who thinks that Muslims are sooooo wild and crazy and that they're the only religious group that has overzealous participants. Do the bombings in Birmingham, Atlanta, and Oklahoma ring a bell? They were done by fundamentalist Christians. It may seem stupid to you to be pissed off by a cartoon, but you shouldn't feel that just because one group doesn't get upset over it that none should have a right to. I'm not taking the side of Muslims by any means and everybody has a right to their opinion, but that includes Muslims that take offense to it.
lets see, birmingham and atlanta were done by the same guy, and okc was done by 2 guys. these muslim riots are going on all over the WORLD. its not just 5 or 10 loony muslims, its thousands of them. muslims can take offense to whatever they want. acting like barbaric thugs who want to kill all nonbelievers (their exact words) is a bit over the top dont u think? these people are so out of touch w/ reality that they get pissed off over 12 cartoons, many of which werent even derogatory towards islam. i get pissed off everytime i see ted kennedy open his fat mouth. do u see me going up to boston and burning his house down? quit trying to rationalize these people's behavior.
Sarahbelle18 Wrote:No, dfarr, youre a close-minded bigot who thinks that Muslims are sooooo wild and crazy and that they're the only religious group that has overzealous participants. Do the bombings in Birmingham, Atlanta, and Oklahoma ring a bell? They were done by fundamentalist Christians. It may seem stupid to you to be pissed off by a cartoon, but you shouldn't feel that just because one group doesn't get upset over it that none should have a right to. I'm not taking the side of Muslims by any means and everybody has a right to their opinion, but that includes Muslims that take offense to it.
Sarah, I would like to point out that the overwhelming majority of Christians not only are opposed to the small group of "Christian" activists you described, but we are the first to say that they are wrong. We not only voice our belief that it is wrong, we do not secretly help fund their activities while giving mouth service to criticism. I am not in anyway suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists or are directly funding terrorism but you have to admit that you do not see the widespread criticism of the terrorism activities. Maybe it is because they are afraid to say anything or they will be the next targets.
dont try to convice her with evidence or facts. in her mind the 10 or so loony christians who bomb abortion clinics and whatnot equal the thousands of muslims in several countries who are rioting and support terrorists. i mean they are about equal. [/sarcasm]
Could someone post the cartoons on here so I can see what the outrage is about? Of course, if you post it... you put yourself in danger.
dfarr Wrote:dont try to convice her with evidence or facts. in her mind the 10 or so loony christians who bomb abortion clinics and whatnot equal the thousands of muslims in several countries who are rioting and support terrorists. i mean they are about equal. [/sarcasm]
So ten Christians who bomb abortion clinics and are terrorists < thousands of Muslim rioters that you say support terrorists?
Sarahbelle18 Wrote:dfarr Wrote:dont try to convice her with evidence or facts. in her mind the 10 or so loony christians who bomb abortion clinics and whatnot equal the thousands of muslims in several countries who are rioting and support terrorists. i mean they are about equal. [/sarcasm]
So ten Christians who bomb abortion clinics and are terrorists < thousands of Muslim rioters that you say support terrorists?
not exactly. my point is that this rabid militant behavior is much in islam. you'll notice that if anyone does a violent act in the name of christianity, those people are immediately chastised and whatever else by the christian community. however, we have seen no condemnation of these violent actions by any popular muslim groups, such as CAIR and others. see what im gettin at? the violent attitudes towards non-believers is much more rampant and condoned than it is in any other religious community.
One of my favorite chicks...Just wish that she would eat something. ;-)
Pictures of Jesus don't piss me off, actually I'm kind fond of some of them. Editorial cartoons depicting God are not offensive to me. Even jokes, I can take a joke.
I have never been so pissed as to start a riot and burn down buildings, bomb cars, and shoot people. But then I'm not muslim.