(10-15-2009 04:56 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:37 PM)transitt Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:28 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ]Good Lord. The UofM campus is not the wild west. I have no problems with people carrying guns wherever they please but we're talking about a boxed in campus. How in the hell I'm I supposed to know if dumb*** next to me put the safety on. Crime ON campus hardly ever happens like some people on here are making it out to be. I spent many late nights on campus going from the library to the computer lab in Smith Hall and never once did I feel afraid. If you want to carry guns off the campus, fine with me.
I tend to disagree here...either they should trust permit holders to carry guns or they shouldn't. Do they really think we just become mad killers when we step onto a college campus?
I can tell you that according to at least one member of the u of m police, they would LOVE to have permit holders carrying on campus.
Sorry but where I send my kid to school I would rather there not be any guns...Would you be OK if they let teachers carry guns into their classes in elementary schools.
I for one sure as hell would not trust a teacher I do not know with a gun in the classroom and damn sure wouldn't trust the State to verify their sanity before they gave them the permit.
Well that would be everyone's wish but the bad guys already have the guns in schools.
I know some professors who carried 357s in their purses by the way. Sometimes you got to do what ya got to do.
(10-15-2009 04:52 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ]Or the guy with the permit could have...
Shot his girlfriend that just broke up with him...
Shot dude she broke up with him to be with...
Shot the teacher that gave him a F...
Killed some kid because a silly an argument...
Because he had access to gun when he was in a fragile state of mind...You think that is a good thing to do with college aged kids.
I think that logic can be applied to just about anything that can be used for a weapon. For instance:
I am about 4 inches and 30 pounds (not fat) bigger than the average grown man. Through various life experiences I have been able to take a punch and would need more than one person to completely subdue me if I were to go ballistic. Say I were mentally unstable (don't worry I am not, being a youth minister I have a ton of patience and am constantly looking for more :) ). But say I were to get an "F" on a paper and I don't like it. I am in the professors office and I went nuts and attacked him and didn't stop. Is being bigger than normal, or being overly aggressive suddenly dangerous? That's what I am reading when I see "fragile college kids". By no means am I equating a guy with 'roid rage with a psycho with a gun, but then again I don't see a lot of differences under the right circumstances. Maybe I am looking too far into your logic, but I think we need to place our trust in the State's ability to not give the wrong person a permit. Anyone with a gun has the power to use it nefariously...that's why those with power usually have a gun.
(10-15-2009 04:56 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:37 PM)transitt Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:28 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ]Good Lord. The UofM campus is not the wild west. I have no problems with people carrying guns wherever they please but we're talking about a boxed in campus. How in the hell I'm I supposed to know if dumb*** next to me put the safety on. Crime ON campus hardly ever happens like some people on here are making it out to be. I spent many late nights on campus going from the library to the computer lab in Smith Hall and never once did I feel afraid. If you want to carry guns off the campus, fine with me.
I tend to disagree here...either they should trust permit holders to carry guns or they shouldn't. Do they really think we just become mad killers when we step onto a college campus?
I can tell you that according to at least one member of the u of m police, they would LOVE to have permit holders carrying on campus.
Sorry but where I send my kid to school I would rather there not be any guns...Would you be OK if they let teachers carry guns into their classes in elementary schools.
I for one sure as hell would not trust a teacher I do not know with a gun in the classroom and damn sure wouldn't trust the State to verify their sanity before they gave them the permit.
If they are crazy what is stopping them from going in with a gun now? The sign and a policy in the handbook?
I think it is interesting to see how so many people get on a high horse every single time the issue of race is even hinted at. It's the most extreme taboo topic and it's because of our fear to be caught discussing race and labeled a racist that no one will ever talk about it in a public forum (not referring to an internet forum) and we will always have the race hatred issue. It's a catch-22. A paradox. It can never be solved.
So because of that, people will put up with robberies, murder, rape, political and business scandals, blasphemy, neglect, non-education, and all other crimes and atrocities, but never will we accept a persons opinion on race in public, possibly discuss the roots of that opinion, nor ever come to some sort of solution. It's just too bad.
I'm not sure that allowing college students is a great idea. They're not exactly known for their maturity.
![[Image: passed_out_drunk_06.jpg]](http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j274/coolio0111/passed_out_drunk_06.jpg)
(10-15-2009 04:56 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:52 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:59 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:49 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:29 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:23 PM)Easterwood Wrote: [ -> ]They are actually doing saturations with the MPD and the campus security. They have shown a strong presence the last two weeks.
Doesn't seem to be working yet.
I have a son on campus, and I am very concerned. It isn't legal for the students on campus to arm themselves. They are sitting ducks.
Not on the campus anymore but got a friend there. Heard there was 9 armed robbers this semester alone. After that couple who was kidnapped from the apartments on highland(also shot and the female was gang raped by 4 guys) I left the school. Would love to return all they have to do is allow permit holders to carry guns on campus. Students are easy prey because the low life scum crooks know they arn't packing.
That wasn't on campus. That was off of Highland and south of the railroad tracks. No student goes over there to begin with. And there is no need for anyone to have a gun on campus. That is just over doing it and everyone knows that. I spent 4 years at the UofM and never had one problem. Some people like to sensationlize things.
tell that to the folks at Va Tech...one armed student (with a permit of course) could have stopped that whole thing.
if you're a thug (someone with the intent to harm)...a college is the perfect place...no one can be armed and the campus police are more interested in writing tickets to boost revenue.
remember, when seconds count...the police will be there in 2-5 minutes...maybe.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Or the guy with the permit could have...
Shot his girlfriend that just broke up with him...
Shot dude she broke up with him to be with...
Shot the teacher that gave him a F...
Killed some kid because a silly an argument...
Because he had access to gun when he was in a fragile state of mind...You think that is a good thing to do with college aged kids.
i love the idea that folks with permits are all recent Lakeside escapes...but that's not how it works in reality.
i can think of 1 fatal incident in the last 6 months involving a permit holder...the guy at trinity commons i think it was?
how many thugs killed folks in that same 6 months with illegal guns? i'm gonna have to guess WAY more than 1.
the folks with their permits aren't the dangerous ones.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Having immediate access to firearms keeps a person from cooling off and thinking through his decisions to use them. The same guy who would have gotten into a fight without the pistol is killing someone with it...See the difference.
(10-15-2009 05:22 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:56 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:37 PM)transitt Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:28 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ]Good Lord. The UofM campus is not the wild west. I have no problems with people carrying guns wherever they please but we're talking about a boxed in campus. How in the hell I'm I supposed to know if dumb*** next to me put the safety on. Crime ON campus hardly ever happens like some people on here are making it out to be. I spent many late nights on campus going from the library to the computer lab in Smith Hall and never once did I feel afraid. If you want to carry guns off the campus, fine with me.
I tend to disagree here...either they should trust permit holders to carry guns or they shouldn't. Do they really think we just become mad killers when we step onto a college campus?
I can tell you that according to at least one member of the u of m police, they would LOVE to have permit holders carrying on campus.
Sorry but where I send my kid to school I would rather there not be any guns...Would you be OK if they let teachers carry guns into their classes in elementary schools.
I for one sure as hell would not trust a teacher I do not know with a gun in the classroom and damn sure wouldn't trust the State to verify their sanity before they gave them the permit.
If they are crazy what is stopping them from going in with a gun now? The sign and a policy in the handbook?
No one called them crazy...But fear for ones job is a reason...As people have already stated they don't bring their guns to work due to policies against it. But being crazy and using bad judgement are two different things.
(10-15-2009 05:18 PM)nhillis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:52 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ]Or the guy with the permit could have...
Shot his girlfriend that just broke up with him...
Shot dude she broke up with him to be with...
Shot the teacher that gave him a F...
Killed some kid because a silly an argument...
Because he had access to gun when he was in a fragile state of mind...You think that is a good thing to do with college aged kids.
I think that logic can be applied to just about anything that can be used for a weapon. For instance:
I am about 4 inches and 30 pounds (not fat) bigger than the average grown man. Through various life experiences I have been able to take a punch and would need more than one person to completely subdue me if I were to go ballistic. Say I were mentally unstable (don't worry I am not, being a youth minister I have a ton of patience and am constantly looking for more :) ). But say I were to get an "F" on a paper and I don't like it. I am in the professors office and I went nuts and attacked him and didn't stop. Is being bigger than normal, or being overly aggressive suddenly dangerous? That's what I am reading when I see "fragile college kids". By no means am I equating a guy with 'roid rage with a psycho with a gun, but then again I don't see a lot of differences under the right circumstances. Maybe I am looking too far into your logic, but I think we need to place our trust in the State's ability to not give the wrong person a permit. Anyone with a gun has the power to use it nefariously...that's why those with power usually have a gun.
The biggest difference between the situation you describe is one is not preventable the other is.
The only qualification to carry a handgun is that you have not been caught commiting a crime. I know tons of people who I would hate to see carrying a gun on a regular basis due to their anger issues.
(10-15-2009 05:40 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:56 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:52 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:59 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:49 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:29 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:23 PM)Easterwood Wrote: [ -> ]They are actually doing saturations with the MPD and the campus security. They have shown a strong presence the last two weeks.
Doesn't seem to be working yet.
I have a son on campus, and I am very concerned. It isn't legal for the students on campus to arm themselves. They are sitting ducks.
Not on the campus anymore but got a friend there. Heard there was 9 armed robbers this semester alone. After that couple who was kidnapped from the apartments on highland(also shot and the female was gang raped by 4 guys) I left the school. Would love to return all they have to do is allow permit holders to carry guns on campus. Students are easy prey because the low life scum crooks know they arn't packing.
That wasn't on campus. That was off of Highland and south of the railroad tracks. No student goes over there to begin with. And there is no need for anyone to have a gun on campus. That is just over doing it and everyone knows that. I spent 4 years at the UofM and never had one problem. Some people like to sensationlize things.
tell that to the folks at Va Tech...one armed student (with a permit of course) could have stopped that whole thing.
if you're a thug (someone with the intent to harm)...a college is the perfect place...no one can be armed and the campus police are more interested in writing tickets to boost revenue.
remember, when seconds count...the police will be there in 2-5 minutes...maybe.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Or the guy with the permit could have...
Shot his girlfriend that just broke up with him...
Shot dude she broke up with him to be with...
Shot the teacher that gave him a F...
Killed some kid because a silly an argument...
Because he had access to gun when he was in a fragile state of mind...You think that is a good thing to do with college aged kids.
i love the idea that folks with permits are all recent Lakeside escapes...but that's not how it works in reality.
i can think of 1 fatal incident in the last 6 months involving a permit holder...the guy at trinity commons i think it was?
how many thugs killed folks in that same 6 months with illegal guns? i'm gonna have to guess WAY more than 1.
the folks with their permits aren't the dangerous ones.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Having immediate access to firearms keeps a person from cooling off and thinking through his decisions to use them. The same guy who would have gotten into a fight without the pistol is killing someone with it...See the difference.
that would be murder...if you start with your fist...tn law says you can't pull your weapon unless you are about to be beaten to DEATH...you should perhaps read the gun laws...they're all online.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-15-2009 05:52 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 05:40 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:56 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:52 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:59 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:49 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:29 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:23 PM)Easterwood Wrote: [ -> ]They are actually doing saturations with the MPD and the campus security. They have shown a strong presence the last two weeks.
Doesn't seem to be working yet.
I have a son on campus, and I am very concerned. It isn't legal for the students on campus to arm themselves. They are sitting ducks.
Not on the campus anymore but got a friend there. Heard there was 9 armed robbers this semester alone. After that couple who was kidnapped from the apartments on highland(also shot and the female was gang raped by 4 guys) I left the school. Would love to return all they have to do is allow permit holders to carry guns on campus. Students are easy prey because the low life scum crooks know they arn't packing.
That wasn't on campus. That was off of Highland and south of the railroad tracks. No student goes over there to begin with. And there is no need for anyone to have a gun on campus. That is just over doing it and everyone knows that. I spent 4 years at the UofM and never had one problem. Some people like to sensationlize things.
tell that to the folks at Va Tech...one armed student (with a permit of course) could have stopped that whole thing.
if you're a thug (someone with the intent to harm)...a college is the perfect place...no one can be armed and the campus police are more interested in writing tickets to boost revenue.
remember, when seconds count...the police will be there in 2-5 minutes...maybe.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Or the guy with the permit could have...
Shot his girlfriend that just broke up with him...
Shot dude she broke up with him to be with...
Shot the teacher that gave him a F...
Killed some kid because a silly an argument...
Because he had access to gun when he was in a fragile state of mind...You think that is a good thing to do with college aged kids.
i love the idea that folks with permits are all recent Lakeside escapes...but that's not how it works in reality.
i can think of 1 fatal incident in the last 6 months involving a permit holder...the guy at trinity commons i think it was?
how many thugs killed folks in that same 6 months with illegal guns? i'm gonna have to guess WAY more than 1.
the folks with their permits aren't the dangerous ones.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Having immediate access to firearms keeps a person from cooling off and thinking through his decisions to use them. The same guy who would have gotten into a fight without the pistol is killing someone with it...See the difference.
that would be murder...if you start with your fist...tn law says you can't pull your weapon unless you are about to be beaten to DEATH...you should perhaps read the gun laws...they're all online.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Re-read what I said...Let me break it down...If he did not have the gun he would have gotten into a fight...With the gun he just shoots the guy.
Secondly that law is so vague. Once someone attacks you the ending is never know. So it can always be argued that they feared for their life.
Please!!
This WHOLE thread is a supposed retaliation for my post about the situation at UTK. I heard that this was planned.
They are so damn stupid. First, I never said there was 1. No crime in Memphis.2. No racism in Memphis 3. No prejudice or bigotry in Memphis.
I said there is NO ATTEMPT to cover it up in Memphis AND it gets ADDRESSED pretty damn quick. This is a credit to our diversity.
Finally, this thread proves that I am RIGHT.
All of those jerks in Knoxvillage can KMA!!!!
(10-15-2009 02:44 PM)tigerndmbfan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 02:30 PM)calsucks Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 02:21 PM)tigerndmbfan Wrote: [ -> ]There have been so many reports about people getting robbed around campus and some on campus. I just dont get it. Why dont they just make the U of M cops patrol around the neighborhoods to provide extra security. I hope Shirley Raines' inbox is flooded with angry emails from parents, students, and alumni demanding they do something about this. I mean whats next, shootings? Its not hard to determine what color does this, but whoever the new mayor is (we find out tonight...probably AC) they better have crime as their #1 issue to tackle.... if not I will move to Nashville where all the good people live and hardly any thugs.
This quote doesn't do much for a well-known poster's view that UTK has racial problems and we're doing just fine in that regard. Wow.
i highly doubt that there are occurring robberies right off campus at gunpoint...the only crime at utk are DUI's, kappa sigs and sae's coke problem
You, my friend, are wrong about crime in Knoxville around the campus. I have family members with personal experience about that.
I just came from Nashville and I used to live there. There is plenty of crime in Nashville and plenty of diversity, plenty of good folks and plenty of bad, just like here. Nashville is in no way the promised land.
My trip was nice, but I came away with the feeling that I am glad I live here and not there. But go ahead, move up there. That will be one less racist here.
you think nashville is safe HA watch the Brown Pride Gang episode of Gangland on the history channel
(10-15-2009 03:37 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:29 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:23 PM)Easterwood Wrote: [ -> ]They are actually doing saturations with the MPD and the campus security. They have shown a strong presence the last two weeks.
Doesn't seem to be working yet.
I have a son on campus, and I am very concerned. It isn't legal for the students on campus to arm themselves. They are sitting ducks.
i've never understood that...if you have a State issued permit to carry a firearm...you should be able to take it with you wherever.
it's like saying...sure, you can carry a weapon...just not in dark alleys, or while walking to/from your car!
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
I guess the University opted out, like some bars.
(10-15-2009 05:36 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure that allowing college students is a great idea. They're not exactly known for their maturity.
Either are you.
(10-15-2009 06:00 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 05:52 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 05:40 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:56 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:52 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:59 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:49 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:29 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:23 PM)Easterwood Wrote: [ -> ]They are actually doing saturations with the MPD and the campus security. They have shown a strong presence the last two weeks.
Doesn't seem to be working yet.
I have a son on campus, and I am very concerned. It isn't legal for the students on campus to arm themselves. They are sitting ducks.
Not on the campus anymore but got a friend there. Heard there was 9 armed robbers this semester alone. After that couple who was kidnapped from the apartments on highland(also shot and the female was gang raped by 4 guys) I left the school. Would love to return all they have to do is allow permit holders to carry guns on campus. Students are easy prey because the low life scum crooks know they arn't packing.
That wasn't on campus. That was off of Highland and south of the railroad tracks. No student goes over there to begin with. And there is no need for anyone to have a gun on campus. That is just over doing it and everyone knows that. I spent 4 years at the UofM and never had one problem. Some people like to sensationlize things.
tell that to the folks at Va Tech...one armed student (with a permit of course) could have stopped that whole thing.
if you're a thug (someone with the intent to harm)...a college is the perfect place...no one can be armed and the campus police are more interested in writing tickets to boost revenue.
remember, when seconds count...the police will be there in 2-5 minutes...maybe.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Or the guy with the permit could have...
Shot his girlfriend that just broke up with him...
Shot dude she broke up with him to be with...
Shot the teacher that gave him a F...
Killed some kid because a silly an argument...
Because he had access to gun when he was in a fragile state of mind...You think that is a good thing to do with college aged kids.
i love the idea that folks with permits are all recent Lakeside escapes...but that's not how it works in reality.
i can think of 1 fatal incident in the last 6 months involving a permit holder...the guy at trinity commons i think it was?
how many thugs killed folks in that same 6 months with illegal guns? i'm gonna have to guess WAY more than 1.
the folks with their permits aren't the dangerous ones.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Having immediate access to firearms keeps a person from cooling off and thinking through his decisions to use them. The same guy who would have gotten into a fight without the pistol is killing someone with it...See the difference.
that would be murder...if you start with your fist...tn law says you can't pull your weapon unless you are about to be beaten to DEATH...you should perhaps read the gun laws...they're all online.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Re-read what I said...Let me break it down...If he did not have the gun he would have gotten into a fight...With the gun he just shoots the guy.
Secondly that law is so vague. Once someone attacks you the ending is never know. So it can always be argued that they feared for their life.
that's not true at all...now, i haven't been in a fist fight since the 5th grade...but if someone tried to start a fight with me...i wouldn't pull my weapon until in MY OPINION (which is why the Sate has to vet you) it is a life or death situation.
but no, if you walk up to me and slug me...i'm not going to shoot you...might swing back, but that's it.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-15-2009 04:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:59 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:49 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:29 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:23 PM)Easterwood Wrote: [ -> ]They are actually doing saturations with the MPD and the campus security. They have shown a strong presence the last two weeks.
Doesn't seem to be working yet.
I have a son on campus, and I am very concerned. It isn't legal for the students on campus to arm themselves. They are sitting ducks.
Not on the campus anymore but got a friend there. Heard there was 9 armed robbers this semester alone. After that couple who was kidnapped from the apartments on highland(also shot and the female was gang raped by 4 guys) I left the school. Would love to return all they have to do is allow permit holders to carry guns on campus. Students are easy prey because the low life scum crooks know they arn't packing.
That wasn't on campus. That was off of Highland and south of the railroad tracks. No student goes over there to begin with. And there is no need for anyone to have a gun on campus. That is just over doing it and everyone knows that. I spent 4 years at the UofM and never had one problem. Some people like to sensationlize things.
tell that to the folks at Va Tech...one armed student (with a permit of course) could have stopped that whole thing.
if you're a thug (someone with the intent to harm)...a college is the perfect place...no one can be armed and the campus police are more interested in writing tickets to boost revenue.
remember, when seconds count...the police will be there in 2-5 minutes...maybe.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
More young women and female teachers on a campus, living there and working at all hours, than nearly anywhere I can think of. I, for one, was one happy mom that my daughter was in a dorm with men and women, and guys living just a few doors down. They had a freshman orientation program that lasted all year that put you in a group of about 12 students, male and female, in your dorm. You met once a week to discuss anything pertinent to freshman life, and hopefully, you bonded into a caring friendship.
Guys and girls are going to find ways to be together at college, but I was hopeful that no real predator could invade my daughter's dorm with all those guys around.
(10-15-2009 04:28 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ]Good Lord. The UofM campus is not the wild west. I have no problems with people carrying guns wherever they please but we're talking about a boxed in campus. How in the hell I'm I supposed to know if dumb*** next to me put the safety on. Crime ON campus hardly ever happens like some people on here are making it out to be. I spent many late nights on campus going from the library to the computer lab in Smith Hall and never once did I feel afraid. If you want to carry guns off the campus, fine with me.
What's boxed in about the U of M? And are you female? Do you park in one of the parking garages at night and cross the campus on the way to your car?
(10-15-2009 04:43 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:37 PM)transitt Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:28 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ]Good Lord. The UofM campus is not the wild west. I have no problems with people carrying guns wherever they please but we're talking about a boxed in campus. How in the hell I'm I supposed to know if dumb*** next to me put the safety on. Crime ON campus hardly ever happens like some people on here are making it out to be. I spent many late nights on campus going from the library to the computer lab in Smith Hall and never once did I feel afraid. If you want to carry guns off the campus, fine with me.
I tend to disagree here...either they should trust permit holders to carry guns or they shouldn't. Do they really think we just become mad killers when we step onto a college campus?
I can tell you that according to at least one member of the u of m police, they would LOVE to have permit holders carrying on campus.
exactly...i face that problem often.
i'm taking classes at Southwest...but since i do carry a gun...what am i supposed to do when i go from work to class...can't leave my gun at work...can't leave it in my car where some student could break in and take/use my own gun...can't take it to class.
if the State is going to let people carry firearms, they don't need to do it half way...to me, that's even MORE dangerous.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
I agree, but why can't you leave your gun in a locked metal box in your trunk?
I do understand. I have the problem of carrying Freeze, but I can't take it into the courthouse. In the summer, it gets too hot in the car and leaks. I would rather have it on me when I walk the downtown streets at dusk in the winter.
(10-15-2009 04:56 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:37 PM)transitt Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:28 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ]Good Lord. The UofM campus is not the wild west. I have no problems with people carrying guns wherever they please but we're talking about a boxed in campus. How in the hell I'm I supposed to know if dumb*** next to me put the safety on. Crime ON campus hardly ever happens like some people on here are making it out to be. I spent many late nights on campus going from the library to the computer lab in Smith Hall and never once did I feel afraid. If you want to carry guns off the campus, fine with me.
I tend to disagree here...either they should trust permit holders to carry guns or they shouldn't. Do they really think we just become mad killers when we step onto a college campus?
I can tell you that according to at least one member of the u of m police, they would LOVE to have permit holders carrying on campus.
Sorry but where I send my kid to school I would rather there not be any guns...Would you be OK if they let teachers carry guns into their classes in elementary schools.
I for one sure as hell would not trust a teacher I do not know with a gun in the classroom and damn sure wouldn't trust the State to verify their sanity before they gave them the permit.
We trust our children to ride airplanes with toting pilots.
(10-15-2009 05:40 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:56 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:52 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:59 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:49 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:29 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 03:23 PM)Easterwood Wrote: [ -> ]They are actually doing saturations with the MPD and the campus security. They have shown a strong presence the last two weeks.
Doesn't seem to be working yet.
I have a son on campus, and I am very concerned. It isn't legal for the students on campus to arm themselves. They are sitting ducks.
Not on the campus anymore but got a friend there. Heard there was 9 armed robbers this semester alone. After that couple who was kidnapped from the apartments on highland(also shot and the female was gang raped by 4 guys) I left the school. Would love to return all they have to do is allow permit holders to carry guns on campus. Students are easy prey because the low life scum crooks know they arn't packing.
That wasn't on campus. That was off of Highland and south of the railroad tracks. No student goes over there to begin with. And there is no need for anyone to have a gun on campus. That is just over doing it and everyone knows that. I spent 4 years at the UofM and never had one problem. Some people like to sensationlize things.
tell that to the folks at Va Tech...one armed student (with a permit of course) could have stopped that whole thing.
if you're a thug (someone with the intent to harm)...a college is the perfect place...no one can be armed and the campus police are more interested in writing tickets to boost revenue.
remember, when seconds count...the police will be there in 2-5 minutes...maybe.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Or the guy with the permit could have...
Shot his girlfriend that just broke up with him...
Shot dude she broke up with him to be with...
Shot the teacher that gave him a F...
Killed some kid because a silly an argument...
Because he had access to gun when he was in a fragile state of mind...You think that is a good thing to do with college aged kids.
i love the idea that folks with permits are all recent Lakeside escapes...but that's not how it works in reality.
i can think of 1 fatal incident in the last 6 months involving a permit holder...the guy at trinity commons i think it was?
how many thugs killed folks in that same 6 months with illegal guns? i'm gonna have to guess WAY more than 1.
the folks with their permits aren't the dangerous ones.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Having immediate access to firearms keeps a person from cooling off and thinking through his decisions to use them. The same guy who would have gotten into a fight without the pistol is killing someone with it...See the difference.
You can do the same with a knife. Believe, me it has happened on a campus.
(10-15-2009 07:09 PM)alterego2 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:43 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:37 PM)transitt Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 04:28 PM)memp600 Wrote: [ -> ]Good Lord. The UofM campus is not the wild west. I have no problems with people carrying guns wherever they please but we're talking about a boxed in campus. How in the hell I'm I supposed to know if dumb*** next to me put the safety on. Crime ON campus hardly ever happens like some people on here are making it out to be. I spent many late nights on campus going from the library to the computer lab in Smith Hall and never once did I feel afraid. If you want to carry guns off the campus, fine with me.
I tend to disagree here...either they should trust permit holders to carry guns or they shouldn't. Do they really think we just become mad killers when we step onto a college campus?
I can tell you that according to at least one member of the u of m police, they would LOVE to have permit holders carrying on campus.
exactly...i face that problem often.
i'm taking classes at Southwest...but since i do carry a gun...what am i supposed to do when i go from work to class...can't leave my gun at work...can't leave it in my car where some student could break in and take/use my own gun...can't take it to class.
if the State is going to let people carry firearms, they don't need to do it half way...to me, that's even MORE dangerous.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
I agree, but why can't you leave your gun in a locked metal box in your trunk?
I do understand. I have the problem of carrying Freeze, but I can't take it into the courthouse. In the summer, it gets too hot in the car and leaks. I would rather have it on me when I walk the downtown streets at dusk in the winter.
you can't have it on school PROPERTY...unless you are dropping someone off and don't leave your car.
but, don't tell anyone...that's EXACTLY what i do.
funny story...speed limit on campus is 15...i was going about 25 leaving campus and was stopped by campus police...he saw my permit and asked if i had my gun on me...knowing the law, i said no...he then asked why he could see the handle sticking out under my seat...i was like, uhhhhhhh...he just smiled, handed my id back and said "have a great day and slow down a little"...got a safe put in my car the next day...lol
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-15-2009 02:33 PM)mphstiger Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2009 02:21 PM)tigerndmbfan Wrote: [ -> ]There have been so many reports about people getting robbed around campus and some on campus. I just dont get it. Why dont they just make the U of M cops patrol around the neighborhoods to provide extra security. I hope Shirley Raines' inbox is flooded with angry emails from parents, students, and alumni demanding they do something about this. I mean whats next, shootings? Its not hard to determine what color does this, but whoever the new mayor is (we find out tonight...probably AC) they better have crime as their #1 issue to tackle.... if not I will move to Nashville where all the good people live and hardly any thugs.
I would leave your white sheet behind. Hardly any thugs in Nashville!! Do you live under a rock?
Nashville's crime rate is not much better than Memphis rate.
Should the discussion about crime be concerned with race? Or a lack of education and economic levels?
![[Image: Jessica_Alba-1.gif]](http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll43/myknsj/Female%20Celebs/Jessica_Alba-1.gif)
.
People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
(10-16-2009 10:02 AM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ]People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
Yeah, because everyone knows that people with hand gun permits have never felt anger or rage. None of them have ever done anything irrational in their entire lives. They are darned near robotic in their critical thinking and lack of emotion.
(10-16-2009 12:46 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 10:02 AM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ]People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
Yeah, because everyone knows that people with hand gun permits have never felt anger or rage. None of them have ever done anything irrational in their entire lives. They are darned near robotic in their critical thinking and lack of emotion.
but how often do you hear about fatal incidents with a permit holder? i can only think of 1 recently.
if someone wants to take a weapon to campus...they will just do it regardless of what the law says...the people who take the time to learn the laws, and what they mean, typically aren't the kind to ignore it.
it's not a perfect system...but at least there is a pretty through process to weed folks out who don't need to carry a firearm.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-16-2009 12:46 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 10:02 AM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ]People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
Yeah, because everyone knows that people with hand gun permits have never felt anger or rage. None of them have ever done anything irrational in their entire lives. They are darned near robotic in their critical thinking and lack of emotion.
I'm pretty sure no one ever stated any of what you just said. If that is what you gathered from my post I guess you are stroking out or are on some pretty heavy drugs. Like I said people who go through the time and effort and pay the money to get their license to carry aren't going to get angry at the drop of a hat and automatically pull their gun out and start killing people.
(10-21-2009 01:10 PM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 12:46 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 10:02 AM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ]People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
Yeah, because everyone knows that people with hand gun permits have never felt anger or rage. None of them have ever done anything irrational in their entire lives. They are darned near robotic in their critical thinking and lack of emotion.
I'm pretty sure no one ever stated any of what you just said. If that is what you gathered from my post I guess you are stroking out or are on some pretty heavy drugs. Like I said people who go through the time and effort and pay the money to get their license to carry aren't going to get angry at the drop of a hat and automatically pull their gun out and start killing people.
People with handguns are in the same boat as everyone else. No more stable no less. The only difference is they have a gun on them.
So you are saying because you signed a paper and took a test that makes automatically sane and stable. Nope, it only means that if you snap you have very easy access to a firearm. That is the entire point of the argument. We are not talking about someone getting a permit as a prerequisite to rob a bank. We are talking about spur of the moment stupidity.
And I am sure the few people on here who stated they pulled their firearm on someone felt they were about to be killed(LOL UofMemphis). Now if the other person had a gun where would that lead?
(10-21-2009 11:28 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2009 01:10 PM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 12:46 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 10:02 AM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ]People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
Yeah, because everyone knows that people with hand gun permits have never felt anger or rage. None of them have ever done anything irrational in their entire lives. They are darned near robotic in their critical thinking and lack of emotion.
I'm pretty sure no one ever stated any of what you just said. If that is what you gathered from my post I guess you are stroking out or are on some pretty heavy drugs. Like I said people who go through the time and effort and pay the money to get their license to carry aren't going to get angry at the drop of a hat and automatically pull their gun out and start killing people.
People with handguns are in the same boat as everyone else. No more stable no less. The only difference is they have a gun on them.
So you are saying because you signed a paper and took a test that makes automatically sane and stable. Nope, it only means that if you snap you have very easy access to a firearm. That is the entire point of the argument. We are not talking about someone getting a permit as a prerequisite to rob a bank. We are talking about spur of the moment stupidity.
And I am sure the few people on here who stated they pulled their firearm on someone felt they were about to be killed(LOL UofMemphis). Now if the other person had a gun where would that lead?
so where is your proof?
with 250,000 people legally carrying firearms...where are all the deaths caused by people with legal firearms? i mean, now...gasp...we can carry into bars! where are all the shoot outs, deaths, and good ole western gun fights the anti gun folks warned everyone of?
there haven't been any...and if you look at the last 5 years...there are 2 fatal incidents with hand gun carry permit holders...with many hundreds of murders with illegal guns.
and note, when i pulled my weapon...it was not in defense of myself...but my mother, who was being attacked in a parking lot because some southaven redneck thought she "stole" their parking spot...my finger was never on the trigger.
you like to
***ume
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-21-2009 11:28 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2009 01:10 PM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 12:46 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 10:02 AM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ]People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
Yeah, because everyone knows that people with hand gun permits have never felt anger or rage. None of them have ever done anything irrational in their entire lives. They are darned near robotic in their critical thinking and lack of emotion.
I'm pretty sure no one ever stated any of what you just said. If that is what you gathered from my post I guess you are stroking out or are on some pretty heavy drugs. Like I said people who go through the time and effort and pay the money to get their license to carry aren't going to get angry at the drop of a hat and automatically pull their gun out and start killing people.
People with handguns are in the same boat as everyone else. No more stable no less. The only difference is they have a gun on them.
So you are saying because you signed a paper and took a test that makes automatically sane and stable. Nope, it only means that if you snap you have very easy access to a firearm. That is the entire point of the argument. We are not talking about someone getting a permit as a prerequisite to rob a bank. We are talking about spur of the moment stupidity.
And I am sure the few people on here who stated they pulled their firearm on someone felt they were about to be killed(LOL UofMemphis). Now if the other person had a gun where would that lead?
Yea I am going to just go ahead and say yes to that. People who do take the time to get an actual permit are going to be more sane than someone who would find a way to get a handgun without one. This isn't the wild west man. We don't settle our disputes at 50 paces.
(10-21-2009 11:52 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2009 11:28 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2009 01:10 PM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 12:46 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 10:02 AM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ]People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
Yeah, because everyone knows that people with hand gun permits have never felt anger or rage. None of them have ever done anything irrational in their entire lives. They are darned near robotic in their critical thinking and lack of emotion.
I'm pretty sure no one ever stated any of what you just said. If that is what you gathered from my post I guess you are stroking out or are on some pretty heavy drugs. Like I said people who go through the time and effort and pay the money to get their license to carry aren't going to get angry at the drop of a hat and automatically pull their gun out and start killing people.
People with handguns are in the same boat as everyone else. No more stable no less. The only difference is they have a gun on them.
So you are saying because you signed a paper and took a test that makes automatically sane and stable. Nope, it only means that if you snap you have very easy access to a firearm. That is the entire point of the argument. We are not talking about someone getting a permit as a prerequisite to rob a bank. We are talking about spur of the moment stupidity.
And I am sure the few people on here who stated they pulled their firearm on someone felt they were about to be killed(LOL UofMemphis). Now if the other person had a gun where would that lead?
so where is your proof?
with 250,000 people legally carrying firearms...where are all the deaths caused by people with legal firearms? i mean, now...gasp...we can carry into bars! where are all the shoot outs, deaths, and good ole western gun fights the anti gun folks warned everyone of?
there haven't been any...and if you look at the last 5 years...there are 2 fatal incidents with hand gun carry permit holders...with many hundreds of murders with illegal guns.
and note, when i pulled my weapon...it was not in defense of myself...but my mother, who was being attacked in a parking lot because some southaven redneck thought she "stole" their parking spot...my finger was never on the trigger.
you like to ***ume
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Like I said your life was not in danger. I am betting neither was you mothers. But you still pulled the gun because of an argument over a
parking space. Now would the 'redneck' have had the legal right to shoot you if he had a firearm. I would say you pointing a gun at me is putting my life in danger.
And you just said if I came up to you and punched you in the face you wouldn't pull it...Something just doesn't add up.
(10-22-2009 09:06 AM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2009 11:52 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2009 11:28 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2009 01:10 PM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 12:46 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 10:02 AM)TigerTrill4life Wrote: [ -> ]People that go through the time and effort to get a hand gun permit are not going to go ballistic and shoot someone over an argument or a bad grade. That is the stupidest argument I have seen on this site in a while. You should be ashamed that you have let your stupidity embarass you on the internet.
Yeah, because everyone knows that people with hand gun permits have never felt anger or rage. None of them have ever done anything irrational in their entire lives. They are darned near robotic in their critical thinking and lack of emotion.
I'm pretty sure no one ever stated any of what you just said. If that is what you gathered from my post I guess you are stroking out or are on some pretty heavy drugs. Like I said people who go through the time and effort and pay the money to get their license to carry aren't going to get angry at the drop of a hat and automatically pull their gun out and start killing people.
People with handguns are in the same boat as everyone else. No more stable no less. The only difference is they have a gun on them.
So you are saying because you signed a paper and took a test that makes automatically sane and stable. Nope, it only means that if you snap you have very easy access to a firearm. That is the entire point of the argument. We are not talking about someone getting a permit as a prerequisite to rob a bank. We are talking about spur of the moment stupidity.
And I am sure the few people on here who stated they pulled their firearm on someone felt they were about to be killed(LOL UofMemphis). Now if the other person had a gun where would that lead?
so where is your proof?
with 250,000 people legally carrying firearms...where are all the deaths caused by people with legal firearms? i mean, now...gasp...we can carry into bars! where are all the shoot outs, deaths, and good ole western gun fights the anti gun folks warned everyone of?
there haven't been any...and if you look at the last 5 years...there are 2 fatal incidents with hand gun carry permit holders...with many hundreds of murders with illegal guns.
and note, when i pulled my weapon...it was not in defense of myself...but my mother, who was being attacked in a parking lot because some southaven redneck thought she "stole" their parking spot...my finger was never on the trigger.
you like to ***ume
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Like I said your life was not in danger. I am betting neither was you mothers. But you still pulled the gun because of an argument over a parking space. Now would the 'redneck' have had the legal right to shoot you if he had a firearm. I would say you pointing a gun at me is putting my life in danger.
And you just said if I came up to you and punched you in the face you wouldn't pull it...Something just doesn't add up.
you're evading the question...where are all the deaths caused by those 250,000 legal permit holders carrying their guns? those 250k will face similar situations everyday...yet, no shoot outs...no running gun fights downtown.
now, as for your question...i never said MY life was in danger...all i remember is going to the southaven Malco to see the last Pirates movie...the firday's was next door and mother was hungry...she took her car...i took mine...by the time i parked i saw someone push my 4'11 95 pound mother down...big guy, too...skinny, but tall, about 6'2...i pulled my gun...approached...once i saw she was OK...i holstered my gun and helped her up...tough guy was back in his truck and away by then.
but yes, if someone hits me...i can fight back...i don't NEED a gun to fight...but i'm little bit defensive over my 60 year old mom who's not even 100 pounds...
as to if he could have shot me...i'd have to look at Mississippi laws...in TN, no...he started a fight with his fists...you cannot escalate that situation...that's the price you pay for starting a shoving contest.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
The argument was never about permit holders...Always about ease of access to firearms...The easier it is to access firearms the more likely they are used and there are tons of examples of that.
And again...You pulled your gun and escaleted the situation...
And in Tennessee he would have been able to shoot you...You pulled a gun...If I start a fight with someone else with my fists and you pull a gun are you saying I can't shoot you...You are crazy dude.
(10-22-2009 04:12 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ]The argument was never about permit holders...Always about ease of access to firearms...The easier it is to access firearms the more likely they are used and there are tons of examples of that.
And again...You pulled your gun and escaleted the situation...
And in Tennessee he would have been able to shoot you...You pulled a gun...If I start a fight with someone else with my fists and you pull a gun are you saying I can't shoot you...You are crazy dude.
while in commission of a crime (assault) you do not have the right to possess or use a firearm (that's law)...if you have one on you...it can become assault with a deadly weapon (also, law).
i had the prerogative to escalate the situation with a firearm because i was acting in defense of someone else (also, law)...the other person was committing a crime, text book assault, making it illegal to possess a firearm.
it's pretty simple.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
You want proof? Here you go:
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Rele...on-safety/
Quote:Penn Study Asks, Protection or Peril? Gun Possession of Questionable Value in an Assault News Release
Those possessing gun in assault situation 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those not possessing one
PHILADELPHIA – In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
“This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous,” notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. “Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?”
What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.
(10-22-2009 05:04 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2009 04:12 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ]The argument was never about permit holders...Always about ease of access to firearms...The easier it is to access firearms the more likely they are used and there are tons of examples of that.
And again...You pulled your gun and escaleted the situation...
And in Tennessee he would have been able to shoot you...You pulled a gun...If I start a fight with someone else with my fists and you pull a gun are you saying I can't shoot you...You are crazy dude.
while in commission of a crime (assault) you do not have the right to possess or use a firearm (that's law)...if you have one on you...it can become assault with a deadly weapon (also, law).
i had the prerogative to escalate the situation with a firearm because i was acting in defense of someone else (also, law)...the other person was committing a crime, text book assault, making it illegal to possess a firearm.
it's pretty simple.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
LOL...That is funny. Spin it how you like...Ease of access to a firearm can lead to consequences that can be much worse than if one was not available.
(10-22-2009 10:07 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]You want proof? Here you go:
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Rele...on-safety/
Quote:Penn Study Asks, Protection or Peril? Gun Possession of Questionable Value in an Assault News Release
Those possessing gun in assault situation 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those not possessing one
PHILADELPHIA – In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
“This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous,” notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. “Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?”
What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.
so...you're basing your info on a "first-of its-kind study" (which means there's no way to confirm the findings) from a Philly (15th most dangerous city) medical school?
if you base a gun study in a place with lots of gun violence...guess what...i'm sure it's going to say you're MANY times more likely to be shot...wow...what a revelation...it also says...if you bring a gun to a fight...there is a higher chance of someone being shot...man, another shocker.
but it doesn't say what amount of the 6% of people with guns were trained to legally use their gun...few things are more dangerous than someone with a firearm who has no idea how to use it.
in other new...people driving cars twice as likely to be in an auto accident!
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-23-2009 01:52 AM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2009 05:04 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2009 04:12 PM)macgar32 Wrote: [ -> ]The argument was never about permit holders...Always about ease of access to firearms...The easier it is to access firearms the more likely they are used and there are tons of examples of that.
And again...You pulled your gun and escaleted the situation...
And in Tennessee he would have been able to shoot you...You pulled a gun...If I start a fight with someone else with my fists and you pull a gun are you saying I can't shoot you...You are crazy dude.
while in commission of a crime (assault) you do not have the right to possess or use a firearm (that's law)...if you have one on you...it can become assault with a deadly weapon (also, law).
i had the prerogative to escalate the situation with a firearm because i was acting in defense of someone else (also, law)...the other person was committing a crime, text book assault, making it illegal to possess a firearm.
it's pretty simple.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
LOL...That is funny. Spin it how you like...Ease of access to a firearm can lead to consequences that can be much worse than if one was not available.
i'm glad you find gun laws so amusing...i for one am glad our founding fathers had the foresight to understand the importance of being armed.
some views from our founding fathers...
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin.
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the people's liberty's teeth."
George Washington
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
Thomas Jefferson
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-23-2009 02:36 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2009 10:07 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]You want proof? Here you go:
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Rele...on-safety/
Quote:Penn Study Asks, Protection or Peril? Gun Possession of Questionable Value in an Assault News Release
Those possessing gun in assault situation 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those not possessing one
PHILADELPHIA – In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
“This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous,” notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. “Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?”
What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.
so...you're basing your info on a "first-of its-kind study" (which means there's no way to confirm the findings) from a Philly (15th most dangerous city) medical school?
if you base a gun study in a place with lots of gun violence...guess what...i'm sure it's going to say you're MANY times more likely to be shot...wow...what a revelation...it also says...if you bring a gun to a fight...there is a higher chance of someone being shot...man, another shocker.
but it doesn't say what amount of the 6% of people with guns were trained to legally use their gun...few things are more dangerous than someone with a firearm who has no idea how to use it.
in other new...people driving cars twice as likely to be in an auto accident!
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
People who are nowhere near cars have a zero percent chance of being in an auto accident.
As for the study, they took into consideration attacks where the victim did have a gun and did not have a gun. Of those who had guns, they were 4.5 times more likely to get shot. It was actually SAFER to not have a gun.
(10-23-2009 04:51 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2009 02:36 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2009 10:07 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]You want proof? Here you go:
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Rele...on-safety/
Quote:Penn Study Asks, Protection or Peril? Gun Possession of Questionable Value in an Assault News Release
Those possessing gun in assault situation 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those not possessing one
PHILADELPHIA – In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
“This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous,” notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. “Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?”
What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.
so...you're basing your info on a "first-of its-kind study" (which means there's no way to confirm the findings) from a Philly (15th most dangerous city) medical school?
if you base a gun study in a place with lots of gun violence...guess what...i'm sure it's going to say you're MANY times more likely to be shot...wow...what a revelation...it also says...if you bring a gun to a fight...there is a higher chance of someone being shot...man, another shocker.
but it doesn't say what amount of the 6% of people with guns were trained to legally use their gun...few things are more dangerous than someone with a firearm who has no idea how to use it.
in other new...people driving cars twice as likely to be in an auto accident!
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
People who are nowhere near cars have a zero percent chance of being in an auto accident.
As for the study, they took into consideration attacks where the victim did have a gun and did not have a gun. Of those who had guns, they were 4.5 times more likely to get shot. It was actually SAFER to not have a gun.
as i said...of those victims who had weapons...how many were legal? how many of those had permits? because i will 100% agree that someone who has a gun, and doesn't know how to use it properly, is VERY dangerous...
fact of the matter is the VAST majority of people carrying guns are illegally carrying them...they don't know squat about the gun...so yeah, what a shock that they are shot...most often with their own gun...
but what does that have to go with legal permit holders? that is not proof that armed permit holders are a danger to anyone.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-23-2009 05:13 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2009 04:51 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2009 02:36 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2009 10:07 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: [ -> ]You want proof? Here you go:
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Rele...on-safety/
Quote:Penn Study Asks, Protection or Peril? Gun Possession of Questionable Value in an Assault News Release
Those possessing gun in assault situation 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those not possessing one
PHILADELPHIA – In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
“This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous,” notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. “Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?”
What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.
so...you're basing your info on a "first-of its-kind study" (which means there's no way to confirm the findings) from a Philly (15th most dangerous city) medical school?
if you base a gun study in a place with lots of gun violence...guess what...i'm sure it's going to say you're MANY times more likely to be shot...wow...what a revelation...it also says...if you bring a gun to a fight...there is a higher chance of someone being shot...man, another shocker.
but it doesn't say what amount of the 6% of people with guns were trained to legally use their gun...few things are more dangerous than someone with a firearm who has no idea how to use it.
in other new...people driving cars twice as likely to be in an auto accident!
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
People who are nowhere near cars have a zero percent chance of being in an auto accident.
As for the study, they took into consideration attacks where the victim did have a gun and did not have a gun. Of those who had guns, they were 4.5 times more likely to get shot. It was actually SAFER to not have a gun.
as i said...of those victims who had weapons...how many were legal? how many of those had permits? because i will 100% agree that someone who has a gun, and doesn't know how to use it properly, is VERY dangerous...
fact of the matter is the VAST majority of people carrying guns are illegally carrying them...they don't know squat about the gun...so yeah, what a shock that they are shot...most often with their own gun...
but what does that have to go with legal permit holders? that is not proof that armed permit holders are a danger to anyone.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
You are making unfounded assumptions about the gun owners in the study.
And legal permit holders have commited many crimes with their guns, including homicide. To think otherwise would be rather naive.
what's unfounded about my assumptions? nowhere does it say these people who had a firearm on them were legally carrying...that's a BIG distinction.
and i can think of 1 death in the last year from a permit holder...where is your proof they are killing people?
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(10-23-2009 08:30 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: [ -> ]what's unfounded about my assumptions? nowhere does it say these people who had a firearm on them were legally carrying...that's a BIG distinction.
and i can think of 1 death in the last year from a permit holder...where is your proof they are killing people?
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
You make a claim with no evidence to back it up. Show proof that their study is flawed because "legal carrying" gun owners are safer and that they skewed the data because the study didn't count them.
As for crimes committed by permit holders, read the attachment.
OK, so according to that...14 people were killed in 2008 by permit holders...in 2008, there were 16,272 murders in the United States...so that means permit holders represent < .01% of US murders...you proved my point...no system is perfect, 14 people out of millions got through the system...but < .01% is not a problem.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
Tell that to the families of the dead.
^ give me their phone numbers...
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
I've got facts. You've got assumptions. Guns are dangerous and are not an effective deterrent.
I've never felt in danger at the UofM. I've been all over that campus at all hours of night. I was even on-campus when Taylor Bradford was murdered.
If someone has a problem at night with security we have three different groups that provide escorts. Campus police, campus security, and Tiger Patrol provide a way for students and faculty to travel at night.
The University of Memphis campus is very safe believe it not. I've had experience with several university police units and the one at the UofM is definitely the best.
The whole country is very safe believe it or not. I've walked around unarmed in cities like New York, LA, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Washington, Seattle, San Francisco, Miami, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh. No one so much as bothered me.
And even in Memphis. What few people realize is that in the vast majority of cases, homicide victims were killed by people they knew--relatives or acquantences. There is very, very little random homicide.
These gun-toters certainly are paranoid.