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Well, kind of. Actually, what Obama wants to do is exclude illegals from the plan, then just make them all legal citizens so they are included.

Quote:"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep..._position1
Why are you such a racist blazerfan?
(09-18-2009 12:08 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, kind of. Actually, what Obama wants to do is exclude illegals from the plan, then just make them all legal citizens so they are included.

Quote:"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep..._position1

If the illegals were paying tax maybe you wouldn't have to pay as much.
(09-18-2009 01:25 PM)Blazing Saddles Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-18-2009 12:08 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, kind of. Actually, what Obama wants to do is exclude illegals from the plan, then just make them all legal citizens so they are included.

Quote:"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep..._position1

If the illegals were paying tax maybe you wouldn't have to pay as much.

If our federal government would piss our money away to buy votes we for sure wouldn't have to pay as much.
(09-18-2009 01:25 PM)Blazing Saddles Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-18-2009 12:08 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, kind of. Actually, what Obama wants to do is exclude illegals from the plan, then just make them all legal citizens so they are included.

Quote:"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep..._position1

If the illegals were paying tax maybe you wouldn't have to pay as much.

I wouldn't bet on it because most illegals probably don't make enough to pay federal taxes. So they'd still be a drain on society by taking American jobs and resources.
The President is correct when he says the immigration policies need to be realistic and practical. The nation has ignored the large numbers of illegal (undocumented) workers for so long (good economy, lots of minimal pay jobs, drug trade generally ignored) that many have children who, under American law, are citizens by birth. If you decide to "send the illegals back", what do you do about their American children? The "Family values" folks have avoided coming up with workable solutions for that problem.

There is also the fact that diseases don't know which are illegal aliens or legal ones-or citizens for that matter. If a disease breaks out, like H1N1 might turn out, refusing to treat anyone medically is just asking for the disease to spread. It's "penny wise and pound foolish" to economize on health care for ANYONE inside America. Now if one could use Wonder Woman's "Lasso of Truth" over the entire population, you might have a chance to separate out the illegals from everyone else. Good luck with anything short of that. There are just too many free enterprise capitalists using these people to make lots of money to end the problem easily.
wow. I guess it's a good thing we have no immigration laws.
I can't wait for the flood of illegal immigrants once the Dems pass Obamacare. They will be crossing our borders in droves.
(09-18-2009 10:22 PM)oldblazer79 Wrote: [ -> ]wow. I guess it's a good thing we have no immigration laws.

We have had immigration laws since 1880 when we were trying to eliminate Chinese immigration, then the Japanese. Before 1880, it didn't matter how you got here, even in the chains of the slave trader, you were allowed to enter and take your best "shot" at a better life. In the southwest and California, the Hispanic "Bracero" workers were welcomed as low-wage fruit and vegetable pickers (until Cesar Chavez organized them to get decent pay and working conditions). Many drifted from Florida through Alabama each year following the ripening schedule of Chandler Mtn. tomatoes and then moving north as summer gave way to autumn and northern crops ripened. They then returned to Florida to start the year of migration over again.

Nobody got all exercised over whether these people were "documented" or "undocumented" back then. They had families and did the "stoop labor" jobs that Americans were "too good" or "too proud" to do. Now with the security scare of 9 /11 /01, we have found that we are suddenly unhappy with all these "aliens" among us. As I asked,how are you going to handle the problem that no one cared about for so long? We do have immigration laws, just like we have had since 1880. We just recently decided we needed to enforce them (against SOME people), but HOW? Some of these families have been in America longer than some of their critics.
I'm gonna call BS on one of your posts, again.
my ancestors legally immigrated to this Country in 1888.
the overwhelming majority of our population are either legal immigrants or ancestors of legal immigrants.
allowing illlegal immigrants to 'jump the line' is an insult to all immigrants and their ancestors that chose to play by the rules,
this will do nothing more than encourage more 'line jumping' in the future. afterall, we are supposed to be a Country of laws.
the problem could be easily [but not timely] resolved, but not enough 'washington politicians' have the testicular fortitute.
The first immigrants who arrived on American soil were clearly illegal, and they decimated the native population.

You can't argue that. Well, you can, but if you do, you are ignorant of history.
They weren't illegal because there were no laws then.
(09-24-2009 06:38 AM)oldblazer79 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm gonna call BS on one of your posts, again.
my ancestors legally immigrated to this Country in 1888.
the overwhelming majority of our population are either legal immigrants or ancestors of legal immigrants.
allowing illlegal immigrants to 'jump the line' is an insult to all immigrants and their ancestors that chose to play by the rules,
this will do nothing more than encourage more 'line jumping' in the future. afterall, we are supposed to be a Country of laws.
the problem could be easily [but not timely] resolved, but not enough 'washington politicians' have the testicular fortitute.

As usual, you say WHAT you want done but are void of HOW to carry it out. That's fair because that is what is blocking the Washington, DC politicians as well. It is obviously easy when the "undocumented alien" is caught immediately. Although they dominate news coverage, they are a small number in the total. It becomes much more difficult when discussing the vast majority who have had families who are citizens. How do you propose dealing with them?
(09-18-2009 12:15 PM)BatesUAB Wrote: [ -> ]Why are you such a racist blazerfan?

Why do you consider that a racist statement?

[Image: godfathersky.jpg]

.
(09-24-2009 11:14 AM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2009 06:38 AM)oldblazer79 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm gonna call BS on one of your posts, again.
my ancestors legally immigrated to this Country in 1888.
the overwhelming majority of our population are either legal immigrants or ancestors of legal immigrants.
allowing illlegal immigrants to 'jump the line' is an insult to all immigrants and their ancestors that chose to play by the rules,
this will do nothing more than encourage more 'line jumping' in the future. afterall, we are supposed to be a Country of laws.
the problem could be easily [but not timely] resolved, but not enough 'washington politicians' have the testicular fortitute.

As usual, you say WHAT you want done but are void of HOW to carry it out. That's fair because that is what is blocking the Washington, DC politicians as well. It is obviously easy when the "undocumented alien" is caught immediately. Although they dominate news coverage, they are a small number in the total. It becomes much more difficult when discussing the vast majority who have had families who are citizens. How do you propose dealing with them?
'As usual', more BAMANBLAZERFAN BS. you're the one with the rep for throwing your [crap] drivel against the wall to see what sticks.
I've corrected your misstatements (tax rates/brackets, median/avg. income & poverty rates to name a few) too many times to count.
You seem to have forgotten JeffCo's financial crisis thread? You didn't like my solutions, but they were specific.
And no, dealing with illegals isn't difficult at all.
But, you go first. I can't wait to read your pearls of wisdom 01-wingedeagle
(09-24-2009 10:45 AM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote: [ -> ]The first immigrants who arrived on American soil were clearly illegal, and they decimated the native population.

You can't argue that. Well, you can, but if you do, you are ignorant of history.
This would be incorrect, and an easy point to disprove since there are no indigenous humans (native population) of North America.
N. America, and the USA [specifically] is a land of immigrants. Even the 'so called' native americans migrated to N. American soil.
You can't argue with that. Well, you can, but if you do, you are ignorant of history.
(09-24-2009 05:44 PM)oldblazer79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2009 10:45 AM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote: [ -> ]The first immigrants who arrived on American soil were clearly illegal, and they decimated the native population.

You can't argue that. Well, you can, but if you do, you are ignorant of history.
This would be incorrect, and an easy point to disprove since there are no indigenous humans (native population) of North America.
N. America, and the USA [specifically] is a land of immigrants. Even the 'so called' native americans migrated to N. American soil.
You can't argue with that. Well, you can, but if you do, you are ignorant of history.

They were here first, though. We just had guns. And diseases.
(09-24-2009 08:40 PM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2009 05:44 PM)oldblazer79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2009 10:45 AM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote: [ -> ]The first immigrants who arrived on American soil were clearly illegal, and they decimated the native population.

You can't argue that. Well, you can, but if you do, you are ignorant of history.
This would be incorrect, and an easy point to disprove since there are no indigenous humans (native population) of North America.
N. America, and the USA [specifically] is a land of immigrants. Even the 'so called' native americans migrated to N. American soil.
You can't argue with that. Well, you can, but if you do, you are ignorant of history.

They were here first, though. We just had guns. And diseases.
so what? it doesn't make them native or indigenous. But, it could make them immigrants.
If I'm the first person move to a previously undiscovered, uninhabited island, it wouldn't make me any more 'native'
[or indigenous] to that island than the first inhabitants of N. America were to this continent.
I guess it's a good thing your field of expertise is journalism and not history.
But, thanks for the temporary derailment.
there doesn't seem to be the political will [within this administration either] to check/stop the invasion of illegals across our southern border

Administration Will Cut Border Patrol Deployed on U.S-Mexico Border
Thursday, September 24, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54514

(CNSNews.com) - Even though the Border Patrol now reports that almost 1,300 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border is not under effective control, and the Department of Justice says that vast stretches of the border are “easily breached,” and the Government Accountability Office has revealed that three persons “linked to terrorism” and 530 aliens from “special interest countries” were intercepted at Border Patrol checkpoints last year, the administration is nonetheless now planning to decrease the number of Border Patrol agents deployed on the U.S.-Mexico border.

Border Patrol Director of Media Relations Lloyd Easterling confirmed this week--as I first reported in my column yesterday--that his agency is planning for a net decrease of 384 agents on the U.S.-Mexico border in fiscal 2010, which begins on October 1.

A Department of Homeland Security annual performance review updated by the Obama administration on May 7 said the Border Patrol “plans to move several hundred Agents from the Southwest Border to the Northern Border to meet the FY 2010 staffing requirements, with only a small increase in new agents for the Southwest Border in the same year.”

Easterling said on Tuesday that in fiscal 2009, 17,399 Border Patrol agents have been deployed on the U.S.-Mexico border. In fiscal year 2010, the Border Patrol plans to decrease that by 384 agents, leaving 17,015 deployed along the Mexican frontier. At the same time, the number of Border Patrol agents deployed on the U.S.-Canada border will be increased by 414, from a fiscal 2009 total of 1,798 agents to a fiscal 2010 total of 2,212.

The Border Patrol is responsible for securing a total of 8,607 miles of border, including the U.S.-Mexico border, the U.S.-Canada border from Washington state to Maine, and sectors of coastline in the Gulf of Mexico, Florida, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Each year, the Border Patrol sets a goal for “border miles under effective control (including certain coastal sectors).” “Effective control,” as defined by U.S. Customs and Border Protection, means that when the Border Patrol detects an illegal border crosser in a particular area of the border the agency can be expected to succeed in apprehending that person.

In the May 7 update of its performance review, DHS said the Border Patrol’s goal for fiscal 2009 was to have 815 of the 8,607 miles of border for which the agency is responsible under “effective control.” The review also said the Border Patrol’s goal for fiscal 2010 was to again have 815 miles of border under “effective control,” meaning DHS was not planning to secure a single additional mile of border in the coming year.

However, Acting Deputy Assistant Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Todd Owen told a House committee in July that the Border Patrol already had 894 miles of border under effective control as of May 31 of this year. These 894 miles, Owen said, included 697 miles on the Mexican border, 32 miles on the Canadian border and 165 miles in the coastal sectors.

Easterling said this week that as of now the Border Patrol still has the same 894 miles of border under effective control that it had under effective control as of May 31. He also said the agency would not relinquish control of any of these miles in the coming year. After the beginning of the new fiscal year, he said, the Border Patrol would reevaluate the situation and set a new goal for border miles under “effective control” for 2010 that would at least equal, and might exceed, the 894 miles currently under effective control.

“The intention is to take back the border incrementally, and make gains that we can keep,” Easterling said. “We do not intend, nor will we give back, miles that we have gained control over.”

Easterling said the Border Patrol would be able to maintain the current number of miles under effective control on the Mexico border with fewer agents deployed there thanks to “force multipliers,” including new fencing, roads and other infrastructure that has been built in recent years. He also cited the assistance the Border Patrol receives from local police and sheriffs departments and community watch groups.

But even if the Border Patrol is able to maintain or marginally improve on the current level of security on the U.S.-Mexico border, most of the border will remain effectively open to smuggling both contraband and persons.

The entire U.S.-Mexico border is 1,954 miles long, according to the International Boundary and Water Commission. While 697 of those miles are now under “effective control,” according to the Border Patrol, 1,257 miles are not under “effective control.”

Reports from other government agencies paint a vivid picture of the massive drug and alien smuggling that takes place in these uncontrolled expanses and the national security problem created by unsecured border lands.

Each year, the Justice Department’s National Drug Intelligence Center produces “drug market analyses” for each of 32 regions of the country that the NDIC describes as “high intensity drug trafficking areas.” Five of these areas sit along the U.S.-Mexico border. These include the California border region, Arizona, New Mexico, West Texas and South Texas. The latest reports, released in March and April of this year, use candid language in portraying the U.S.-Mexican frontier as wide open to drug smuggling and even vulnerable to penetration by potential terrorists.

The California-Mexico border, the NDIC said, was “easily breached” on both foot and in vehicles.

“The vast border area presents innumerable remote crossing points that traffickers exploit to smuggle illicit drugs, primarily marijuana, into the country from Mexico,” said NDIC. “These areas are easily breached by traffickers on foot, in private vehicles, or in all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) as they smuggle drugs between POEs [ports of entry], particularly the mountainous areas in eastern San Diego County and the desert and sand dune areas in Imperial County.”

Arizona’s border was judged to be open not only to drug smugglers but also aliens with “extensive criminal records” and from “special interest countries,” which are defined as “countries that could export individuals who could bring harm to the United States through terrorism.”

“Some criminal organizations smuggle aliens and gang members into the United States,” said NDIC’s report on Arizona. “These particular individuals typically have extensive criminal records and pose a threat, not only to the Arizona HIDTA [high intensity drug trafficking area] region but also to communities throughout the United States. Alien smuggling organizations reportedly also smuggle aliens from countries other than Mexico, including special-interest countries.”

“Special-interest countries are those designated by the intelligence community as countries that could export individuals who could bring harm to the United States through terrorism,” said the NDIC report.

The NDIC described the Arizona-Mexico border as “largely underprotected” in the areas between official ports of entry.

“Large amounts of illicit drugs are smuggled into the area from Mexico, and bulk cash is transported from the area into Mexico,” said NDIC. “These trafficking activities are facilitated by several factors unique to the region, including the continuing economic and population growth in Arizona’s two primary drug markets (Phoenix and Tucson), the highways that connect major metropolitan areas in Arizona with major illicit drug source areas in Mexico, and a remote, largely underprotected border area between Arizona’s ports of entry (POEs).

“Vast stretches of remote, sparsely populated border areas are located within the HIDTA region; these areas are especially conducive to large-scale drug smuggling,” said NDIC. “By the end of January 2009, 108 miles of the 262-mile shared border between Arizona and Mexico will have some type of fencing. However, few physical barriers exist in border areas between POEs, particularly in the West Desert area of the U.S. Border Patrol (USBP) Tucson Sector, to impede drug traffickers, chiefly Mexican DTOs, from smuggling illicit drug shipments into the United States from Mexico.”

Part of the New Mexico border was described as “an ideal smuggling corridor.”

“Southwestern New Mexico—specifically Hidalgo, Luna, and Dona Ana Counties—shares a 180-mile border with Mexico,” said NDIC. “More than half the length of this border is desolate public land that contains innumerable footpaths, roads, and trails. Additionally, many ranches are located along the border. These factors and minimal law enforcement coverage make the area an ideal smuggling corridor for drugs and other illicit goods and services— primarily alien smuggling into the United States and weapons and bulk cash smuggling into Mexico. Mexican DTOs smuggle multihundred-kilogram quantities of illicit drugs through this portion of the HIDTA region annually.”

Like the California border, the South Texas border is also “easily breached,” according to the NDIC.

“The combination of vast stretches of remote, sparsely populated land and extensive crossborder economic activity at designated ports of entry (POEs) creates an environment conducive to large-scale drug smuggling,” said NDIC. “Few physical barriers exist between POEs to impede drug traffickers, particularly Mexican DTOs, from smuggling illicit drug shipments into the United States from Mexico. Along many areas of the U.S.-Mexico border in South Texas, the Rio Grande River can be easily breached by smugglers on foot or in vehicles, enabling Mexican DTOs to smuggle multikilogram quantities of illicit drugs, primarily marijuana and cocaine, into the United States.”

In the West Texas sector, the NDIC again raised the possibility that terrorists could exploit the border to enter the country.

“Moreover, the region’s location along the U.S.-Mexico border poses national security and law enforcement issues for the region, such as alien smuggling, weapons transportation, and terrorist entry into the United States through and between ports of entry,” said NDIC.

While the U.S. government may be failing to exert effective control over most of the border, identical language in the NDIC reports for Arizona and West Texas said that drug trafficking organizations have set up “gatekeeper” operations that control smuggling into the U.S. and levy taxes on the smugglers they let through.

“Gatekeepers regulate the drug flow from Mexico across the U.S.-Mexico border into the United States by controlling drug smugglers’ access to areas along the border,” said the Arizona and West Texas NDIC reports. “Gatekeepers collect ‘taxes’ from smugglers on all illicit shipments that are moved through these areas, including drugs and illegal aliens. The taxes are generally paid to the DTO that controls the area; the DTO then launders the tax proceeds. Gatekeepers sometimes resort to extortion, intimidation, and acts of violence to collect taxes from smugglers. Gatekeepers also reportedly bribe corrupt Mexican police and military personnel in order to ensure that smuggling activities occur without interruption.”

“Gatekeepers generally operate at the behest of a Mexican drug trafficking organization (DTO) and enforce the will of the organization through bribery, intimidation, extortion, beatings, and murder,” said the reports.

A Government Accountability Office report released on August 31 pointed out that the Border Patrol’s top priority is to stop terrorists and weapons of mass destruction from entering the United States and revealed that three person’s “linked to terrorism” and hundreds of aliens from “special interest countries” were intercepted at Border Patrol checkpoints in fiscal 2008. These checkpoints, which act as a final line of defense for the U.S. border, are typically set up on highways 25 to 100 miles north of the Mexican border.

“CBP reported that in fiscal year 2008, there were three individuals encountered by the Border Patrol at southwest border checkpoints who were identified as persons linked to terrorism,” said GAO.

“In addition, the Border Patrol reported that in fiscal year 2008 checkpoints encountered 530 aliens from special interest countries, which are countries the Department of State has determined to represent a potential terrorist threat to the United States,” said GAO. “While people from these countries may not have any ties to illegal or terrorist activities, Border Patrol agents detain aliens from special interest countries if they are in the United States illegally and Border Patrol agents report these encounters to the local Sector Intelligence Agent, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Joint Terrorism Task Force, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Office of Investigations, and the CBP National Targeting Center.”

The GAO also said one illegal alien detained in West Texas had come from Iran.

“For example,” said GAO, “according to a Border Patrol official in the El Paso sector, a checkpoint stopped a vehicle and questioned its three Iranian occupants, determining that one of those occupants was in the United States illegally. The individual was detained and turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement for further questioning.”

There has been much discussion in the past week about whether President Barack Obama will heed the advice of Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan, to increase the U.S. troop deployment there. The administration, however, has already decided to decrease by 384 the Border Patrol agents deployed on our own southern frontier.
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