NCAAbbs

According to McSame and the republicans.

Acts 4:32 - 35 NIV

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 THERE WERE NO NEEDY PERSONS AMONG THEM. FOR FROM TIME to TIME THOSE WHO OWNED LANDS or HOUSES SOLD THEM, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles feet, and it was DISTRIBUTED to ANYONE as he had NEEDS.

See also - Luke 12:13 - 21

Also, I believe it was God who said "when you do for the least of mine, you do unto me."

It seems to me the Christian Right Republican party needs to decide if they are capitalist or Christians. Now they will believe in a seperation of church and state.

We as Christians are called to give to others. It doesn't say we should be forced to which is what true socialism is.

I give money away. I just think that I know better how my charitable giving should be spent than the government does.

Nice try though.

LightEmUp70 Wrote:We as Christians are called to give to others. It doesn't say we should be forced to which is what true socialism is.

I give money away. I just think that I know better how my charitable giving should be spent than the government does.

Nice try though.

I'm not Christian, but +1. There is a HUGE difference between me sharing my wealth and the government taking my wealth to do with it what they think is best.

LightEmUp70 Wrote:We as Christians are called to give to others. It doesn't say we should be forced to which is what true socialism is.

I give money away. I just think that I know better how my charitable giving should be spent than the government does.

Nice try though.

I guess you missed this part "No one claimed any of his possession was his own."

I thought all we have belongs to God and we are just stewards of it. Love your neighbor as you love yourself, I believe is one of the great two. I don't know, I'm just going by what this little book called the bible says. But I know republicans have the REAL truth.

You must be bigger than God.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:We as Christians are called to give to others. It doesn't say we should be forced to which is what true socialism is.

I give money away. I just think that I know better how my charitable giving should be spent than the government does.

Nice try though.

I guess you missed this part "No one claimed any of his possession was his own."

I thought all we have belongs to God and we are just stewards of it.

Since when did the government become God?

LightEmUp70 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:We as Christians are called to give to others. It doesn't say we should be forced to which is what true socialism is.

I give money away. I just think that I know better how my charitable giving should be spent than the government does.

Nice try though.

I guess you missed this part "No one claimed any of his possession was his own."

I thought all we have belongs to God and we are just stewards of it.

Since when did the government become God?

Now that's out of bounds, I didn't say or suggest that the government is God. But if you are "Wealthy", which I doubt most on here are, then what's is the big problem in helping the less fortunate as we are called to do by the bible. It doesn't have to be a commandment to be the right thing to do.

The great thing about being a Christian,to me, is being able achieve more together than we could achieve as individuals. That's why we fellowship, have ministries, and congregate.

Wherever a man stores up his treasure there his heart is also.

You must not be a Christian, you must be a church goer.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:We as Christians are called to give to others. It doesn't say we should be forced to which is what true socialism is.

I give money away. I just think that I know better how my charitable giving should be spent than the government does.

Nice try though.

I guess you missed this part "No one claimed any of his possession was his own."

I thought all we have belongs to God and we are just stewards of it.

Since when did the government become God?

Now that's out of bounds, I didn't say or suggest that the government is God. But if you are "Wealthy", which I doubt most on here are, then what's is the big problem in helping the less fortunate as we are called to do by the bible. It doesn't have to be a commandment to be the right thing to do.

The great thing about being a Christian,to me, is being able achieve more together than we could achieve as individuals. That's why we fellowship, have ministries, and congregate.

Wherever a man stores up his treasure there his heart is also.

You must not be a Christian, you must be a church goer.

I'm 70+k in debt right now and we make less than 10k per year while we're in school. I will tell you we tithe and have other commitments above that. I will not tell you how much because that is between me, my wife, and the Lord. Furthermore, it is not your place to say what I am or am not. You don't know a thing about my faith.

I already said as a Christian, I am called to give to others. You must have missed that part in your blind hatred of all things conservative. What I also said is it is not the governments place to tell me where the money I have earned goes. I feel that I can give to other places and it will do far more good. Especially since there is much less red tape and earmarks.

And speaking as someone who has very little money, and read this carefully, IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S PLACE TO TAKE CARE OF ME! I will stand on my own or fall on my own. Either way, it will happen on my own.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 THERE WERE NO NEEDY PERSONS AMONG THEM. FOR FROM TIME to TIME THOSE WHO OWNED LANDS or HOUSES SOLD THEM, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles feet, and it was DISTRIBUTED to ANYONE as he had NEEDS.

First of all, they brought the money to the apostles and the apostles distributed the money to the needy from AMONGST them. There were no needy AMONGST them. Second, if you continue reading in the Book of Acts you will find that not everyone of the believers sold all that they had. In the story of Priscilla and Aquilla, Peter actually says to them that this was your money, you could have done with it what you wanted. The problem that they had was not that they did not give all of the money, the problem was that they tried to be deceptive in their giving. They also gave for the wrong reasons.

I would agree that people who have been blessed should give more to those who are less fortunate. You are quoting from the wrong parts of Scripture though. First, the story you quote was talking about believers helping other believers. Later in chapter 6 you find the first helpers selected to help care for the widows and orphans from within the group. There is a precedent for helping other believers who are in need. I would point you to the story of the good Samaritan to help others who are not like yourself. There are actually other places that would be better stories for what you are wanting to show but these Acts account point more towards the attitude of giving and/or the attitude of helping others in need more than giving to the government for them to do what you should be doing yourself.

I find it appalling that churches spend millions of dollars on stuff to make themselves feel more comfortable while people are suffering. You will get no argument from me that the US church can do more than give 0.5% of what it takes in to help people. I think that the church that I come from does a great job helping people around the world but it is still only a small part of what is can and should be doing. I also believe that the church and its leaders will be held accountable for this.

LightEmUp, the non-Christian agrees with you so you have backing for your side of the story. You are right, I don't have the right to question your faith.

On your own? How about, I can do all things through Christ. You tithes goes through red tape and "earmarks" as well.

The government just redistributed 700 billion dollars of our tax money and gave it all to the wealthy but we can't give any to the poor, interesting.

Christianity, and others are faiths that Man has that there is something and someone bigger than ordinary life. Socialism, Capitalism, Communism, and others are economic systems entirely relating to how things of monetary value are handled in a society. America operates on a blended economic system of capitalism and socialism with constant tension between the two for a middle ground.

Since the Progressive Movement at the end of the 19th century, we have been adding to the base of each with trends that run hot and cold for and against each over the 20th century. Sometimes the capitalists are in political control and we move more towards that part of the "scale". Sometimes those policies result in economic decline so we move a bit toward the other end of the "scale". Those at each extreme see any move away from their point of view to be terrible and a guarantee of utter destruction. Actually the US has steered a fairly moderate middle course through much of the last century.

Consider that during the Great worldwide Depression of the 20s and 30s, the Fascists gained control in Germany and Italy while the Communists took over Russia and set up the USSR. We came through those risky times with little long term movement from our moderate economic system. It was not a "given" either. We had Nazi "bunds" in America--one had a standing room only meeting in Madison Square Garden. We had the Louisiana "Kingfish" calling for a "Soak the Rich" movement--"Every man is a King" he proclaimed. We have been blessed to have calm and reasonable people helping America come through a lot of adversity while making relatively minor corrections to our economic systems and Constitution.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:We as Christians are called to give to others. It doesn't say we should be forced to which is what true socialism is.

I give money away. I just think that I know better how my charitable giving should be spent than the government does.

Nice try though.

I guess you missed this part "No one claimed any of his possession was his own."

I thought all we have belongs to God and we are just stewards of it. Love your neighbor as you love yourself, I believe is one of the great two. I don't know, I'm just going by what this little book called the bible says. But I know republicans have the REAL truth.

You must be bigger than God.

Unite, Instead of letting Obama take my money and give to people who don't deserve it. I just paid for my nephew's and his new bride's honeymoon. I will do everything in my power not to give my money to lazy, unmotivated people. If BHO raises my taxes, I'll just lay off someone to recoop my money that he stole from me. Oh, and don't worry Unite, I'm not one of the rich as BHO defines them.

Here's a question for you: If you don't need the government to babysit you, why the hell do we need the morality police to tell us what we can or can't say in public or on TV. Why do we need the government to tell us who we can or can't sleep with, or what we can or can't put into our bodies? Freedom doesn't mean JUST economic freedom. If you really believe in freedom, you should believe in social freedom as well.

What is Christian is giving of your own free will, not to get your arm twisted for it.

mixduptransistor Wrote:Here's a question for you: If you don't need the government to babysit you, why the hell do we need the morality police to tell us what we can or can't say in public or on TV. Why do we need the government to tell us who we can or can't sleep with, or what we can or can't put into our bodies? Freedom doesn't mean JUST economic freedom. If you really believe in freedom, you should believe in social freedom as well.

Nothing can be said on tv that will influence me, but the opposite is true with my children.
Being an adult, I can sleep with other consenting adults (if I was single). If you're saying that my teen kids can sleep with 'whoever' they want, you're crazy dude.
Concerning drugs, I'm not saying that I haven't ever dabbled (not since college). But, it would have been my problem if I would have ever been caught.

mixduptransistor Wrote:Here's a question for you: If you don't need the government to babysit you, why the hell do we need the morality police to tell us what we can or can't say in public or on TV. Why do we need the government to tell us who we can or can't sleep with, or what we can or can't put into our bodies? Freedom doesn't mean JUST economic freedom. If you really believe in freedom, you should believe in social freedom as well.

So, in other words, if you believe in capitalism, you should want anarchy? If you don't want your taxes raised, you should think that murder should be allowed? If you don't want your personal success to be punished, you shouldn't want people who drive while drunk or stoned to be punished?

You're both taking it to the extreme. I didn't say there shouldn't be ANY restrictions (obviously statutory rape laws to protect children), but up until very very recently there were laws on the books in more than a few states that said it was illegal to have homosexual sex, or that blacks and whites couldn't marry. It is illegal in Alabama for consenting adults to buy sex toys. It is illegal to smoke marijuana even if you're in your house, with the doors locked, the curtains pulled, and the keys to your car on the roof.

I don't think murder should be legal. I believe in laws that protect me from you and protect my stuff from you. However, I do not believe in laws that protect me from myself.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:On your own? How about, I can do all things through Christ. You tithes goes through red tape and "earmarks" as well.

Gotta read the whole thing, man:

10I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you have been concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Whether I obtain wealth or not does not concern me. I'll survive or I won't. What I don't need, however, is the government to take care of me.

This is saying God will take of our needs within His will. It doesn't say I should just relax and let everything come to me.

What I don't understand is all the uproar about whether or not your money is going to help the needy. Why aren't any of you complaining about all the taxes you pay that should be going to properly provide us with support and security in other areas, but isn't?

Oh, I forgot, it's because you just don't like Obama, and you have to pick something to attack him for.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel as safe as I should.

LightEmUp70 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:On your own? How about, I can do all things through Christ. You tithes goes through red tape and "earmarks" as well.

Gotta read the whole thing, man:

10I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you have been concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Whether I obtain wealth or not does not concern me. I'll survive or I won't. What I don't need, however, is the government to take care of me.

This is saying God will take of our needs within His will. It doesn't say I should just relax and let everything come to me.

My point exactly, God will provide for all of our needs but we are called to help one another. I would also add that we are ALL God's children, some chose to follow him and others choose not to. But God's will is carried out by those who choose to do his work here on earth and that includes the less fortunate.

You may never ask for help but as a Christian I can't see you in need and not help because I am my brother's keeper.

To me it has nothing to do with the government because above being an American, I am a Christian and God's law is above man's law.

Suede27 Wrote:What I don't understand is all the uproar about whether or not your money is going to help the needy. Why aren't any of you complaining about all the taxes you pay that should be going to properly provide us with support and security in other areas, but isn't?

Oh, I forgot, it's because you just don't like Obama, and you have to pick something to attack him for.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel as safe as I should.

I agree with you. I don't like the way our tax money is spent period. I sure as hell don't want to give them more!

Seriously, I would like to see more programs and incentives for working people, not simply giving them more money. Tax incentives and low cost loans for small business owners, more help for adult education programs and so forth. That way the wealth is being "redistributed" to the people who want to work for it. Not my brother who had no need for the earned income credit, but got it anyway.

BlazerCPA1 Wrote:

Suede27 Wrote:What I don't understand is all the uproar about whether or not your money is going to help the needy. Why aren't any of you complaining about all the taxes you pay that should be going to properly provide us with support and security in other areas, but isn't?

Oh, I forgot, it's because you just don't like Obama, and you have to pick something to attack him for.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel as safe as I should.

I agree with you. I don't like the way our tax money is spent period. I sure as hell don't want to give them more!

Seriously, I would like to see more programs and incentives for working people, not simply giving them more money. Tax incentives and low cost loans for small business owners, more help for adult education programs and so forth. That way the wealth is being "redistributed" to the people who want to work for it. Not my brother who had no need for the earned income credit, but got it anyway.

It's hard to argue with that.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:According to McSame and the republicans.

Acts 4:32 - 35 NIV

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 THERE WERE NO NEEDY PERSONS AMONG THEM. FOR FROM TIME to TIME THOSE WHO OWNED LANDS or HOUSES SOLD THEM, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles feet, and it was DISTRIBUTED to ANYONE as he had NEEDS.

See also - Luke 12:13 - 21

Also, I believe it was God who said "when you do for the least of mine, you do unto me."

It seems to me the Christian Right Republican party needs to decide if they are capitalist or Christians. Now they will believe in a seperation of church and state.

Don't stop there, smartguy. Read the whole book!

Ahh the youth of today with their wannabe gotcha soundbites...

BlazingGoat Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:According to McSame and the republicans.

Acts 4:32 - 35 NIV

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 THERE WERE NO NEEDY PERSONS AMONG THEM. FOR FROM TIME to TIME THOSE WHO OWNED LANDS or HOUSES SOLD THEM, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles feet, and it was DISTRIBUTED to ANYONE as he had NEEDS.

See also - Luke 12:13 - 21

Also, I believe it was God who said "when you do for the least of mine, you do unto me."

It seems to me the Christian Right Republican party needs to decide if they are capitalist or Christians. Now they will believe in a seperation of church and state.

Don't stop there, smartguy. Read the whole book!

Ahh the youth of today with their wannabe gotcha soundbites...

Smartguy,

1. I have read the entire book more than once.

2. I'm not a youth - I have youths

3. This not a gotcha - it's the inspired word of God. You can't pick and choose which verses you like and dislike.

4. Republicans need to be consistant in their faith-based agenda.

5. Sarcasm is the way to prove or disprove anything.

Rule 1: politics + religion + message board = bad

Rule 2: see Rule 1

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:3. This not a gotcha - it's the inspired word of God. You can't pick and choose which verses you like and dislike.

That's interesting. The Bible also calls two men laying together an "abomination" (not "Obama Nation"), so I guess you can't vote Democrat and be a Christian either.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:On your own? How about, I can do all things through Christ. You tithes goes through red tape and "earmarks" as well.

Gotta read the whole thing, man:

10I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you have been concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Whether I obtain wealth or not does not concern me. I'll survive or I won't. What I don't need, however, is the government to take care of me.

This is saying God will take of our needs within His will. It doesn't say I should just relax and let everything come to me.

My point exactly, God will provide for all of our needs but we are called to help one another. I would also add that we are ALL God's children, some chose to follow him and others choose not to. But God's will is carried out by those who choose to do his work here on earth and that includes the less fortunate.

You may never ask for help but as a Christian I can't see you in need and not help because I am my brother's keeper.

To me it has nothing to do with the government because above being an American, I am a Christian and God's law is above man's law.

I agree with you. My point though it that it is my responsibility to help my fellow man, not the governments. Also, no one was ever forced to give anything. They did it because that is what they are supposed to do. I think it should be that way in this society as well. Give because it is right to give, not because you must.

How about all of this going back and forth is a perfect example of how there is a seperation of church and state. Or at least there's supposed to be.

BlazerFan11 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:3. This not a gotcha - it's the inspired word of God. You can't pick and choose which verses you like and dislike.

That's interesting. The Bible also calls two men laying together an "abomination" (not "Obama Nation"), so I guess you can't vote Democrat and be a Christian either.

I don't quite get that. How is voting Democratic a sin for you? YOU aren't sleeping with men, and if Democrats were in every single position of power of this country, they aren't going to force YOU to do it. Doesn't the Bible say that you shouldn't judge people, that God will take care of that? Where exactly in the Bible does it say it's your responsibility to enforce God's law?

mixduptransistor Wrote:

BlazerFan11 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:3. This not a gotcha - it's the inspired word of God. You can't pick and choose which verses you like and dislike.

That's interesting. The Bible also calls two men laying together an "abomination" (not "Obama Nation"), so I guess you can't vote Democrat and be a Christian either.

I don't quite get that. How is voting Democratic a sin for you? YOU aren't sleeping with men, and if Democrats were in every single position of power of this country, they aren't going to force YOU to do it. Doesn't the Bible say that you shouldn't judge people, that God will take care of that? Where exactly in the Bible does it say it's your responsibility to enforce God's law?

mixdup, it's all in how you interpret the bible. Don't you get it? It tells you what you want to hear.

Suede27 Wrote:How about all of this going back and forth is a perfect example of how there is a seperation of church and state. Or at least there's supposed to be.

People go back and forth on it no matter what just going by the other threads. Religion just adds a different twist on it. There's never going to be consensus, and it looks like things are just getting more and more divided...unfortunately.

mixduptransistor Wrote:

BlazerFan11 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:3. This not a gotcha - it's the inspired word of God. You can't pick and choose which verses you like and dislike.

That's interesting. The Bible also calls two men laying together an "abomination" (not "Obama Nation"), so I guess you can't vote Democrat and be a Christian either.

I don't quite get that. How is voting Democratic a sin for you? YOU aren't sleeping with men, and if Democrats were in every single position of power of this country, they aren't going to force YOU to do it. Doesn't the Bible say that you shouldn't judge people, that God will take care of that? Where exactly in the Bible does it say it's your responsibility to enforce God's law?

You just helped me make my point. I was just trying to draw attention to how ridiculous Unite's claim that you can't be a capitalist and a Christian because the Bible says to give to others. It isn't our job to enforce the will of God, nor is it governments' job.

LightEmUp70 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:On your own? How about, I can do all things through Christ. You tithes goes through red tape and "earmarks" as well.

Gotta read the whole thing, man:

10I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you have been concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Whether I obtain wealth or not does not concern me. I'll survive or I won't. What I don't need, however, is the government to take care of me.

This is saying God will take of our needs within His will. It doesn't say I should just relax and let everything come to me.

My point exactly, God will provide for all of our needs but we are called to help one another. I would also add that we are ALL God's children, some chose to follow him and others choose not to. But God's will is carried out by those who choose to do his work here on earth and that includes the less fortunate.

You may never ask for help but as a Christian I can't see you in need and not help because I am my brother's keeper.

To me it has nothing to do with the government because above being an American, I am a Christian and God's law is above man's law.

I agree with you. My point though it that it is my responsibility to help my fellow man, not the governments. Also, no one was ever forced to give anything. They did it because that is what they are supposed to do. I think it should be that way in this society as well. Give because it is right to give, not because you must.

Point taken, ideally we shouldn't force people to do the right thing, as we have free will under God's law, but I don't see why we should oppose it when we are forced to do the right thing. Like making a child return stolen candy, apologize for bad behavior, or to share with others, we do it because it begins to shape their morals and values.

The other thing I would say is, our government is suppose to be an extention of us and representatives on our behalf, therefore, taking care of our common interest.

I don't believe government should promote one religeon or faith but we shouldn't be forced to deny our faith either. I don't understand how one could be a Christian in private and ignore their faith when shaping policy. This is America and in God we trust, we are one nation under God, and we should never forget that because if we do, we must be held accountable. I believe that if our actions lined up with our faith, this would be a better country and more people would be attracted to both Christianity and politics.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

LightEmUp70 Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:On your own? How about, I can do all things through Christ. You tithes goes through red tape and "earmarks" as well.

Gotta read the whole thing, man:

10I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you have been concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Whether I obtain wealth or not does not concern me. I'll survive or I won't. What I don't need, however, is the government to take care of me.

This is saying God will take of our needs within His will. It doesn't say I should just relax and let everything come to me.

My point exactly, God will provide for all of our needs but we are called to help one another. I would also add that we are ALL God's children, some chose to follow him and others choose not to. But God's will is carried out by those who choose to do his work here on earth and that includes the less fortunate.

You may never ask for help but as a Christian I can't see you in need and not help because I am my brother's keeper.

To me it has nothing to do with the government because above being an American, I am a Christian and God's law is above man's law.

I agree with you. My point though it that it is my responsibility to help my fellow man, not the governments. Also, no one was ever forced to give anything. They did it because that is what they are supposed to do. I think it should be that way in this society as well. Give because it is right to give, not because you must.

Point taken, ideally we shouldn't force people to do the right thing, as we have free will under God's law, but I don't see why we should oppose it when we are forced to do the right thing. Like making a child return stolen candy, apologize for bad behavior, or to share with others, we do it because it begins to shape their morals and values.

The other thing I would say is, our government is suppose to be an extention of us and representatives on our behalf, therefore, taking care of our common interest.

I don't believe government should promote one religeon or faith but we shouldn't be forced to deny our faith either. I don't understand how one could be a Christian in private and ignore their faith when shaping policy. This is America and in God we trust, we are one nation under God, and we should never forget that because if we do, we must be held accountable. I believe that if our actions lined up with our faith, this would be a better country and more people would be attracted to both Christianity and politics.

You completely miss the point of what our government was meant to be. Government isn't meant to align or attract anyone to Christianity (or any other faith for that matter). It isn't meant to deny your faith either. If separation of church and state was done properly, and we actually followed the principles of our founding and Constitution then the only thing government would do is protect us from each other and from foreign enemies. We should not be legislating morality. Making murder illegal is not legislating morality, so don't pull that strawman. What's immoral to you is moral to someone else. What's moral to you is immoral to someone else, so if we're not supposed to be denying someone's faith, why are we legislating things that have no practical implication other than some religious context, which in this country usually means Christianity?

Mixedup-
1. Your oversimplistic desription of our government's duty isn't complete.

2. I never said we should regulate or force morality on anyone. Re-read my post, SLOWLY, I said we have free will.

3. I didn't say government should attract people to Christianity (should to politics - since it is for the people) but that if we truly presented Christianity according to the scriptures and incorporated it into our politics, more people would be attracted to both. But I don't believe you can seperate your faith from your politics. I do believe you can honor your faith without FORCING it on others.

4. Most people are turned off by Christianity not because of the Word but rather because of the people who inteperet, manipulate, and distort the Word.

5. I will not continue tio respond to you unless you are willing to read my post and enage in a sensable debate.

6. I don't have all the answers but I do have a lot of questions, opinions, and curiosity about the truth. Whatever that might be.

7. Sarcasm, invalid information, and manipulation of my post aren't going to prove anything other than a lack of discernment on the part of the reader.

8. I am not afraid to admit when I have been PROVEN wrong but it takes a rational, reasonable, and comprehensive argument that is based on facts to move me.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:According to McSame and the republicans.

Acts 4:32 - 35 NIV

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 THERE WERE NO NEEDY PERSONS AMONG THEM. FOR FROM TIME to TIME THOSE WHO OWNED LANDS or HOUSES SOLD THEM, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles feet, and it was DISTRIBUTED to ANYONE as he had NEEDS.

See also - Luke 12:13 - 21

Also, I believe it was God who said "when you do for the least of mine, you do unto me."

It seems to me the Christian Right Republican party needs to decide if they are capitalist or Christians. Now they will believe in a seperation of church and state.

Your NIV contains an "inconvenient footnote" regarding Acts 4:32 - 35:

"The experience of the Christians of the Jerusalem church in sharing their possessions is not to be taken as normative for all Christian churches or communities. This voluntary sharing of possessions in the time of persecution is a beautiful evidence of the oneness of the believers. However, it should be observed that this communal sharing was (1) voluntary (v. 32; cp. 5:4); (2) in a time of persecution (v 29); and (3) evidently restricted to the Jerusalem church."

In your Luke passage Jesus refers to a "rich man", not a man who simply owns something.

The eighth and tenth commandments refer to property rights recognized by God:

"You shall not steal."

"You shall not covet your neighbor's house... his ox or donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor"

I'm a Christian. I'm not a socialist. Take your crazy and your namecalling elsewhere.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:Mixedup-
1. Your oversimplistic desription of our government's duty isn't complete.

2. I never said we should regulate or force morality on anyone. Re-read my post, SLOWLY, I said we have free will.

3. I didn't say government should attract people to Christianity (should to politics - since it is for the people) but that if we truly presented Christianity according to the scriptures and incorporated it into our politics, more people would be attracted to both. But I don't believe you can seperate your faith from your politics. I do believe you can honor your faith without FORCING it on others.

4. Most people are turned off by Christianity not because of the Word but rather because of the people who inteperet, manipulate, and distort the Word.

5. I will not continue tio respond to you unless you are willing to read my post and enage in a sensable debate.

6. I don't have all the answers but I do have a lot of questions, opinions, and curiosity about the truth. Whatever that might be.

7. Sarcasm, invalid information, and manipulation of my post aren't going to prove anything other than a lack of discernment on the part of the reader.

8. I am not afraid to admit when I have been PROVEN wrong but it takes a rational, reasonable, and comprehensive argument that is based on facts to move me.

I haven't tried to distort anything or misrepresent anything, anyone, or any facts. Also, I haven't really attacked your position or arguments until your latest post, and maybe I misinterpreted it but you said politics and one's faith should be intertwined. For me, someone who doesn't have any 'faith' or religion, I take that as you saying you're going to legislate things such as who can have sex with who, or what I can buy, or what I can watch on TV, etc.

I have no problem with a person living a religious life, and I have no problem with that person serving in government. I have no problem with them saying God Bless or with them saying a prayer before a city council meeting or opening of the Senate. I DO have a problem with them telling me what I can or cannot do based only on what is in the Bible if that act does not affect anyone else.

mixduptransistor Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:Mixedup-
1. Your oversimplistic desription of our government's duty isn't complete.

2. I never said we should regulate or force morality on anyone. Re-read my post, SLOWLY, I said we have free will.

3. I didn't say government should attract people to Christianity (should to politics - since it is for the people) but that if we truly presented Christianity according to the scriptures and incorporated it into our politics, more people would be attracted to both. But I don't believe you can seperate your faith from your politics. I do believe you can honor your faith without FORCING it on others.

4. Most people are turned off by Christianity not because of the Word but rather because of the people who inteperet, manipulate, and distort the Word.

5. I will not continue tio respond to you unless you are willing to read my post and enage in a sensable debate.

6. I don't have all the answers but I do have a lot of questions, opinions, and curiosity about the truth. Whatever that might be.

7. Sarcasm, invalid information, and manipulation of my post aren't going to prove anything other than a lack of discernment on the part of the reader.

8. I am not afraid to admit when I have been PROVEN wrong but it takes a rational, reasonable, and comprehensive argument that is based on facts to move me.

I haven't tried to distort anything or misrepresent anything, anyone, or any facts. Also, I haven't really attacked your position or arguments until your latest post, and maybe I misinterpreted it but you said politics and one's faith should be intertwined. For me, someone who doesn't have any 'faith' or religion, I take that as you saying you're going to legislate things such as who can have sex with who, or what I can buy, or what I can watch on TV, etc.

I have no problem with a person living a religious life, and I have no problem with that person serving in government. I have no problem with them saying God Bless or with them saying a prayer before a city council meeting or opening of the Senate. I DO have a problem with them telling me what I can or cannot do based only on what is in the Bible if that act does not affect anyone else.

Fair enough-

1. The bible tells us we don't have a right to judge others.

2. God gives us free will.

3. People have taken the bible and distorted it prove their point of view.

I am a Christian but I also believe it's ok to be a Muslim, Jew, or whatever. There's one book written for Jesus' life but thousands written on any given histortical figure. My point- you can't restrict the Word of God to one book.

I have gay friends but I don't support gay marriage because marriage is a Holy Union and a biblical concept. But I do support partner's rights and benedfits. I do believe you can be gay and go to heaven.

I don't agree with abortions and would never approve of someone I love getting one but I would never try to ban anyone from getting one.

My point is I don't have to agree with the act to love, respect, and accept the person committing the act.

I don't believe we should legistlate things that don't effect the public. But I wouldn't oppose anything that support my position either.

My original post was to point out that calling Barack a socialist is a HUGE stretch and based on those assumptions, then early Christians were socialist. Just like tying Barack to William Ayers, Jesus hung out with the extremist, radicals, and thugs of his time but we don't define him by his associations.

Blazingoat- I didn't call you any name. I don't pay attention to interpretive footnotes, since they are usually there to reinforce a certain doctrine. I smart enough to read, interpret, and understand the words in the bible for myself. That's why we have 1000's of different versions of Christianity. His word isn't confusing. You do realize the bible has been tranlated several different times in many different languages. Somethings have been lost in translation. You do realize the people who put the bible together omitted 100's of books. They did so to paint the picture they wanted their followers to see.

If their were only 4 people on earth when Kane killed Able, then who did Kane marry when he was banned from the garden of eden. I guess you don't believe in science, evolution, or that the earth is just over 4,000 years old. Explain those footnotes.

Some people think cucumbers taste better pickled.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:Blazingoat- I didn't call you any name. I don't pay attention to interpretive footnotes, since they are usually there to reinforce a certain doctrine. I smart enough to read, interpret, and understand the words in the bible for myself. That's why we have 1000's of different versions of Christianity. His word isn't confusing. You do realize the bible has been tranlated several different times in many different languages. Somethings have been lost in translation. You do realize the people who put the bible together omitted 100's of books. They did so to paint the picture they wanted their followers to see.

If their were only 4 people on earth when Kane killed Able, then who did Kane marry when he was banned from the garden of eden. I guess you don't believe in science, evolution, or that the earth is just over 4,000 years old. Explain those footnotes.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

-Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709

One of the great things about the modern collapse of organized religion is that every man can be his own priest.

One of the bad things about the modern collapse of organized religion is that every man can be his own priest.

I understand you think you have it all figured out.

Just spare us. Willya.

Just for the record, before this reaches triple digits, I called it in Post #34.

blazr Wrote:Just for the record, before this reaches triple digits, I called it in Post #34.

Haha!

Oh, personally I'm not going down this road much further, if at all.

UniteAllBlazerworld is a strange and largely unfulfilling place.

BlazingGoat Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:Blazingoat- I didn't call you any name. I don't pay attention to interpretive footnotes, since they are usually there to reinforce a certain doctrine. I smart enough to read, interpret, and understand the words in the bible for myself. That's why we have 1000's of different versions of Christianity. His word isn't confusing. You do realize the bible has been tranlated several different times in many different languages. Somethings have been lost in translation. You do realize the people who put the bible together omitted 100's of books. They did so to paint the picture they wanted their followers to see.

If their were only 4 people on earth when Kane killed Able, then who did Kane marry when he was banned from the garden of eden. I guess you don't believe in science, evolution, or that the earth is just over 4,000 years old. Explain those footnotes.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

-Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709

One of the great things about the modern collapse of organized religion is that every man can be his own priest.

One of the bad things about the modern collapse of organized religion is that every man can be his own priest.

I understand you think you have it all figured out.

Just spare us. Willya.

If you were thorough in your evaluations, you would have noticed in an earlier post that I don't claim to know it all. Go and re-read every post, if you can read and comprehend.

When does the word of alexander pope compare to those of God? Read the book of proverbs.

Apparently to some, ignorance is bliss and you seem to be a VERY blissfull guy.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:If you were thorough in your evaluations, you would have noticed in an earlier post that I don't claim to know it all.

Lets take that NIV footnote from Acts for example. I'm willing to bet that the ones who prepared that footnote (which you discounted out of hand) have more Biblical scholarship in their little fingers than you do in your entire family.

And...

Know what? Never mind. It's not worth it. I shall retire to my "ignorance".

Have a hap, hap, happy day!

P.S. You did call me a name. You called me a socialist!

BlazingGoat Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:If you were thorough in your evaluations, you would have noticed in an earlier post that I don't claim to know it all.

Lets take that NIV footnote from Acts for example. I'm willing to bet that the ones who prepared that footnote (which you discounted out of hand) have more Biblical scholarship in their little fingers than you do in your entire family.

And...

Know what? Never mind. It's not worth it. I shall retire to my "ignorance".

Have a hap, hap, happy day!

P.S. You did call me a name. You called me a socialist!

I have sent you a pm but I'm going to post it here as well. If you have a disagreement with me that's fine but if you bring my family into this then it's personal. I have been nothing but civil in my post in this thread but I am capable of getting nasty.

So be carefull and stick to attempting to prove your point. I'm not your typical Christian, I wouldn't hesitate to kick your @ss. You freaking coward.

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

BlazingGoat Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:If you were thorough in your evaluations, you would have noticed in an earlier post that I don't claim to know it all.

Lets take that NIV footnote from Acts for example. I'm willing to bet that the ones who prepared that footnote (which you discounted out of hand) have more Biblical scholarship in their little fingers than you do in your entire family.

And...

Know what? Never mind. It's not worth it. I shall retire to my "ignorance".

Have a hap, hap, happy day!

P.S. You did call me a name. You called me a socialist!

I have sent you a pm but I'm going to post it here as well. If you have a disagreement with me that's fine but if you bring my family into this then it's personal. I have been nothing but civil in my post in this thread but I am capable of getting nasty.

So be carefull and stick to attempting to prove your point. I'm not your typical Christian, I wouldn't hesitate to kick your @ss. You freaking coward.

Darn. I read Uni's threat and I was hoping it was pointed towards me.
If only...........

BTW, I'm sensing a banning for Unite in 3....2.....1...
Good night, and sweet dreams, Unite

Oooooh. Internet tough guys. Gotta love 'em.

mobileblazer Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:

BlazingGoat Wrote:

UniteAllBlazers Wrote:If you were thorough in your evaluations, you would have noticed in an earlier post that I don't claim to know it all.

Lets take that NIV footnote from Acts for example. I'm willing to bet that the ones who prepared that footnote (which you discounted out of hand) have more Biblical scholarship in their little fingers than you do in your entire family.

And...

Know what? Never mind. It's not worth it. I shall retire to my "ignorance".

Have a hap, hap, happy day!

P.S. You did call me a name. You called me a socialist!

I have sent you a pm but I'm going to post it here as well. If you have a disagreement with me that's fine but if you bring my family into this then it's personal. I have been nothing but civil in my post in this thread but I am capable of getting nasty.

So be carefull and stick to attempting to prove your point. I'm not your typical Christian, I wouldn't hesitate to kick your @ss. You freaking coward.

Darn. I read Uni's threat and I was hoping it was pointed towards me.
If only...........

BTW, I'm sensing a banning for Unite in 3....2.....1...
Good night, and sweet dreams, Unite

Maybe if you guys would quit being such a$$holes when you respond to folks, you wouldn't bring the worst out. Sure he shouldn't have let his emotions get the best of him on a message board. But you guys do your best to be as smug as possible. No reason to ban if you ask me. A warning, sure. It's only to be expected.

This thread should never have been started.

Smaug Wrote:Oooooh. Internet tough guys. Gotta love 'em.

1. I have no problem meeting anyone face to face to solve any problem they may have with me. I'm in Birmingham often. If you would like to get in touch with me directly send me pm and we can make arrangements.

2. This person brings up my family - I defend them and you guys point fingers at me - I have one pointing back at you.

3. Mobile- you been trying to bait me into engaging with you but I have already determined your motives and couldn't care less about you, your opinions, or your lack of insight. Free speech out of one side of your mouth - ban for defending my family out of the other side.

4. Suede- I thought you...

5. If I get banned for refusing to let an idiot insult my family, so be it. I'm sure I would... I'm already over it.