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to identify all the TW supporters who are also Obama supporters. Because if you are supporting both of these clowns, you are lacking alot of your mental faculties these days.

Maybe there can be an icon by their name to distinguish someone who doesn't warrant arguing these issues with.
BuffaloT Wrote:to identify all the TW supporters who are also Obama supporters. Because if you are supporting both of these clowns, you are lacking alot of your mental faculties these days.

Maybe there can be an icon by their name to distinguish someone who doesn't warrant arguing these issues with.

I'm not sure how many are outside of callem, and it's been proven he's the biggest idiot on the board.
Dak10 Wrote:
BuffaloT Wrote:to identify all the TW supporters who are also Obama supporters. Because if you are supporting both of these clowns, you are lacking alot of your mental faculties these days.

Maybe there can be an icon by their name to distinguish someone who doesn't warrant arguing these issues with.

I'm not sure how many are outside of callem, and it's been proven he's the biggest idiot on the board.

I concur.
BuffaloT Wrote:to identify all the TW supporters who are also Obama supporters. Because if you are supporting both of these clowns, you are lacking alot of your mental faculties these days.

Maybe there can be an icon by their name to distinguish someone who doesn't warrant arguing these issues with.

Hmm... Bad analogy. As an Obama supporter, l am ready for a CHANGE after 8 years of BS and mediocrity. Same reason I'm ready for a new coach.
MachoTiger Wrote:
BuffaloT Wrote:to identify all the TW supporters who are also Obama supporters. Because if you are supporting both of these clowns, you are lacking alot of your mental faculties these days.

Maybe there can be an icon by their name to distinguish someone who doesn't warrant arguing these issues with.

Hmm... Bad analogy. As an Obama supporter, l am ready for a CHANGE after 8 years of BS and mediocrity. Same reason I'm ready for a new coach.

There will be CHANGE no matter what since someone new will be in the White House. But do you really want Obama?, he brings higher taxes and NO experience. This should alarm everyone.
eb1122 Wrote:
MachoTiger Wrote:
BuffaloT Wrote:to identify all the TW supporters who are also Obama supporters. Because if you are supporting both of these clowns, you are lacking alot of your mental faculties these days.

Maybe there can be an icon by their name to distinguish someone who doesn't warrant arguing these issues with.

Hmm... Bad analogy. As an Obama supporter, l am ready for a CHANGE after 8 years of BS and mediocrity. Same reason I'm ready for a new coach.

There will be CHANGE no matter what since someone new will be in the White House. But do you really want Obama?, he brings higher taxes and NO experience. This should alarm everyone.

McCain brings melanoma and a history of flip flopping. That scares me much, much more.
Yeah! Because we all know that Obama hasn't flipped in the last couple of months.

Let's face it, EVERY politician is going to flip-flop some during their term of service. I guess, unless you can vote PRESENT 130 times, that keeps ya from taking a stance.


And while I do take my Tigers very seriously and root them on very passionately, it is just a game. The election is the key factor for the direction of our nation for years.
I absolutely shudder to think of a dem led congress, with a dem led Supreme Court and a dem as President. It is just too much for my mind to think.
I would take 60 more years as Rip as a coach.... or anyone on this board as a coach for that matter over that political possibility.
After watching a Republican White House, a Republican led Congress, and a Republican Supreme Court since 2001, I am convinced that they've had enough time to get something done but all they've done is wreck the economy, destroy America's image in the world, and line their pockets.

It's time for a change of direction.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:After watching a Republican White House, a Republican led Congress, and a Republican Supreme Court since 2001, I am convinced that they've had enough time to get something done but all they've done is wreck the economy, destroy America's image in the world, and line their pockets.

It's time for a change of direction.

Soooooo, you WANT to pay higher taxes and give up more of your money. WOW.. And what has obama done to make you think he can lead a nation? Can you point out anything he has done in the Senate? Anything he as done at all? His 200 or so days of experience scare me more. I will stick with someone who has seen a bit more and has experience on his side.
eb1122 Wrote:
the other Greg Childers Wrote:After watching a Republican White House, a Republican led Congress, and a Republican Supreme Court since 2001, I am convinced that they've had enough time to get something done but all they've done is wreck the economy, destroy America's image in the world, and line their pockets.

It's time for a change of direction.

Soooooo, you WANT to pay higher taxes and give up more of your money. WOW.. And what has obama done to make you think he can lead a nation? Can you point out anything he has done in the Senate? Anything he as done at all? His 200 or so days of experience scare me more. I will stick with someone who has seen a bit more and has experience on his side.

Higher taxes? I'm not making more than $200K. My taxes won't go up.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:
eb1122 Wrote:
the other Greg Childers Wrote:After watching a Republican White House, a Republican led Congress, and a Republican Supreme Court since 2001, I am convinced that they've had enough time to get something done but all they've done is wreck the economy, destroy America's image in the world, and line their pockets.

It's time for a change of direction.

Soooooo, you WANT to pay higher taxes and give up more of your money. WOW.. And what has obama done to make you think he can lead a nation? Can you point out anything he has done in the Senate? Anything he as done at all? His 200 or so days of experience scare me more. I will stick with someone who has seen a bit more and has experience on his side.

Higher taxes? I'm not making more than $200K. My taxes won't go up.

Incorrect my friend, if you are making just about anything, Your taxes will go up.
INCOME TAX

MCCAIN

(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!
eb1122 Wrote:Incorrect my friend, if you are making just about anything, Your taxes will go up.
INCOME TAX

MCCAIN

(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!


Ummm... No. That chart is based on an incorrect assumption that Sen. Obama is planning to repeal the Bush tax cuts for the middle class. For the facts, see the non-partisan, unbiased chart at the following URL:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/eco.../index.htm

TOGC is correct in stating that you WILL see a decrease in your taxes under Obama provided that you pull in less than $227K
MachoTiger Wrote:
eb1122 Wrote:Incorrect my friend, if you are making just about anything, Your taxes will go up.
INCOME TAX

MCCAIN

(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!


Ummm... No. That chart is based on an incorrect assumption that Sen. Obama is planning to repeal the Bush tax cuts for the middle class. For the facts, see the non-partisan, unbiased chart at the following URL:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/eco.../index.htm

TOGC is correct in stating that you WILL see a decrease in your taxes under Obama provided that you pull in less than $227K

Well then lets put up the whole picture instead and the links to verify.

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS


CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN
15% (no change)

OBAMA
39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN

(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX< /B>

MCCAIN
- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA
Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford20the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!

Obama also voted for and supports giving social security benefits to illegals.

You can verify the above at the following web sites:


http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/elect...index.html

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/...taxes.html

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/polit...taxes.html

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec...ack_obama/

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec...hn_mccain/
Completely false. I encourage those looking for the facts to use non-partisan sources such as http://www.factcheck.org.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/wo..._if_i.html

See below:

Q: Would Obama tax my profits if I sell my home? Would he tax my IRA? Would he tax my water?
I was just sent this and it had 100s of names attached and forwarded over and over – is it real?

Subject: Important read - Taxes

INTERESTING DATA JUST RECEIVED ON TAXES

Spread the word.....

This is something you should be
aware of so you don't get blind-sided.
This is really going to catch a lot
of families off guard. It should
make you worry.

Proposed changes in taxes after 2008 General election:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000
per home (couples) McCain does not
propose any change in existing
home sales income tax.

OBAMA

28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you?
If you sell your home and make a profit, you
will pay 28% of your gain on taxes.

If you are heading toward retirement
and would like to down-size your
home or move into a retirement
community, 28% of the money you
make from your home will go to taxes. This
proposal will adversely affect the
elderly who are counting on the income
from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you?
If you have any money invested in stock
market, IRA, mutual funds,
college funds, life insurance, retirement
accounts, or anything that pays
or reinvests dividends, you will now
be paying nearly 40% of the money
earned on taxes if Obama become president.

The experts predict that 'higher
tax rates on dividends and capital gains
would crash the stock market yet
do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA
(reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama your taxes will
more than double!
How does this affect you? No explanation
needed. This is pretty
straight forward.

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax
How does this affect you? Many families
have lost businesses,
farms and ranches, and homes
that have
been in their families
for generations because they could not
afford the inheritance tax.
Those willing their assets to loved
ones will not only lose them to
these taxes.

NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY OBAMA


* New government taxes proposed on
homes that are more than
2400 square feet


* New gasoline taxes (as if
gas weren't high enough already)


* New taxes on natural resources
consumption (heating
gas, water, electricity)


* New taxes on retirement accounts
and last but not least....

* New taxes to pay for socialized medicine
so we can receive the same
level of medical care as other
third-world countries!!!



A: No. A new e-mail being circulated about Obama's tax proposals is almost entirely false.
Alert readers may already have noted that this chain e-mail does not provide links to any of Obama's actual proposals or cite any sources for the claims it makes. That is because they are made up.This widely distributed message is so full of misinformation that we find it impossible to believe that it is the result of simple ignorance or carelessness on the part of the writer. Almost nothing it says about Obama's tax proposals is true. We conclude that this deception is deliberate.


Wachovia Apologizes


Update, Aug. 27:One version of this e-mail was sent around by a financial professional, Robert Jenkins, a vice president of Wachovia Securities in St. Louis, Mo. Even though Jenkins is an investment adviser and not a tax expert, we thought his endorsement might seem to some readers to give this false e-mail greater credibility. So we attempted to ask Jenkins about the matter. But instead of a reply from him, we received the following message from another Wachovia official, whose identity we confirmed by telephone:

Thank you for contacting Wachovia regarding a recent email regarding "proposed changes in taxes after the 2008 General election." Please know that Wachovia does not endorse any political party, candidate, or initiative, and that our Firm did not endorse or approve the email as it is contrary to our Code of Conduct and Corporate Values.

Members of executive and departmental leadership in Wachovia Corporation and Wachovia Securities have been made aware of the email, and Robert Jenkins has been dealt with appropriately and directly. Every effort has been made to ensure that no additional emails or communications of this nature will be issued by any member of our Firm.

We sincerely apologize for this unfortunate incident.

Cynthia Plackemeier
Assistant Branch Manager

We later contacted William Mannen, a Wachovia vice president for branch administration in St. Louis. He declined to say whether or not Jenkins is still employed by Wachovia.



Our own sources for the following are Obama's own Web site and other statements, interviews with Obama's policy advisers, and a comprehensive analysis of both the McCain and Obama tax plans produced by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, plus additional sources to which we have provided links.Home Sales: The claim that Obama would impose a 28 percent tax on the profit from "all home sales" is false. Both Obama and McCain would continue to exempt the first $250,000 of gain from the sale of a primary residence ($500,000 for a married couple filing jointly) which results in zero tax on all but a very few home sales.
Capital Gains Rate: It's untrue that Obama is proposing a 28 percent capital gains tax rate. He said in an interview on CNBC that he favors raising the top rate on capital gains from its present 15 percent to 20 percent or more, but no higher than 28 percent. And as for a 28 percent rate, he added, "my guess would be it would be significantly lower than that." Furthermore, he has said only couples making $250,000 or more (or, his policy advisers tell us, singles making more than $200,000) would pay the higher capital gains rate. That means the large majority of persons who pay capital gains taxes would see no increase at all.


Tax on Dividends: Another false claim is that Obama proposes to raise the tax rate on dividends to 39.6 percent. Dividends currently are taxed at a top rate of 15 percent, and Obama would raise that to the same rate as he would tax capital gains, somewhere between 20 percent and 28 percent but likely "significantly" lower than 28 percent. This higher tax also would fall only on couples making $250,000 or more or singles making more than $200,000.


Taxing IRAs and 529s: Contrary to the claim in this e-mail, raising tax rates on capital gains or dividends would not result in higher taxes on any investments held in Individual Retirement Accounts or in popular, tax-deferred "college funds" under section 529 of the Internal Revenue Code. The whole point of such tax-deferred plans is that dividends and capital gains are allowed to accumulate and compound tax-free, and neither Obama nor McCain proposes to change that. And as previously mentioned, any capital gains or dividend income from stocks, bonds or mutual funds owned outside of tax-deferred accounts would continue to be taxed at current rates except for couples making over $250,000, or singles making more than $200,000.


Doubled Taxes? The claim that "Under Obama your taxes will more than double!" is also false. The comparative rate tables this e-mail provides for McCain and Obama are entirely wrong, as we explained in an earlier article March 13 about another false e-mail from which these tables are copied. It is supposedly a comparison of tax rates before and after the Bush tax cuts, but it grossly overstates the effect of the Bush cuts. Furthermore, Obama proposes to retain the Bush cuts for every single income level shown in this bogus table.


Estate Tax. The claim that Obama proposes to "restore the inheritance tax" is also false, as are the claims that McCain would impose zero tax and that Bush "repealed" it. McCain and Obama both would retain a reduced version of the estate tax, as it is correctly called, though McCain would reduce it by more.

The tax now falls only on estates valued at more than $2 million (effectively $4 million for couples able to set up the required legal and financial arrangements). It reaches a maximum rate of 45 percent on amounts more than that. It was not repealed, but it is set to expire temporarily in 2010, then return in 2011, when it would apply to estates valued at more than $1 million ($2 million for couples), with the maximum rate rising to 55 percent.

Obama has proposed to apply the tax only to estates valued at more than $3.5 million ($7 million for couples), holding the maximum rate at 45 percent. McCain would apply it to estates worth more than $5 million ($10 million for couples), with a maximum rate of 15 percent.


"New Tax" Falsehoods: The e-mail continues with a string of made-up taxes that it falsely claims Obama has proposed. He has not proposed a tax on new homes with more than 2,400 square feet, or a new gasoline tax or a tax on retirement accounts. The most laughably false claim is that Obama would tax "water."

Two claims in this message, while not completely false, are still grossly misleading.

The claim that Obama would impose "new taxes on natural resources" may refer to his support for a cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions, which indeed would impose large costs on industries burning coal, gas or oil and, indirectly, on their consumers. But McCain also supports cap-and-trade legislation, and even coauthored an early version of a bill that reached the Senate floor this year. Obama's plan would give the federal government more of the revenue from auctioning pollution permits than McCain's plan. Whether cap-and-trade amounts to a "tax" is a matter of interpretation. The fact is neither McCain nor Obama call it that.

There is also some truth to the claim that Obama would impose "new taxes" to finance his health care plan, depending on your interpretation of "new." He has said he would pay for much of his plan "by allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for people making more than $250,000 per year, as they are scheduled to do." That would certainly be a tax increase for those high-income persons, compared with what they are paying now. But whether that's imposing a new tax, or just letting an old one come back, depends on your point of view. It may well be that Obama will eventually propose tax increases to finance some of his plan. We've noted before that the "cost savings" that he says will finance much of his plan are inflated and probably won't materialize, according to independent experts we consulted. But it's wrong to say that he's proposing such taxes now.

The short answer to our reader's question is, no, this message isn't real. It's a pack of lies.

-Brooks Jackson
Nice try... Believe what you want to believe, vote for who you want.
eb1122 Wrote:Nice try... Believe what you want to believe, vote for who you want.

I will. But I surely will not try to sway others with mis-statements and untruths. Vote for who you wish, but at least try not to base your vote on lies spread thru "teh Internets".
The anti-Obama crowd caught lying again.

03-nutkick

03-lmfao
the other Greg Childers Wrote:The anti-Obama crowd caught lying again.

03-nutkick

03-lmfao

You can believe what you want and me as well. But let me ask you this. Does obamas lack of experience alarm you at all. My main concern is that he has not been in office very long at all, I think it is what less than a year(?). And has not done anything while in office, produced no major bills or tried to pass any legislation. That to me is very scary. Now it is true he is a very good speaker, but that is not enough for me to hand him the most powerful position in the world.
eb1122 Wrote:Now it is true he is a very good speaker

Correction, he's good at reading a teleprompter....speaking off the cuff, no way.
GermantownTiger Wrote:
eb1122 Wrote:Now it is true he is a very good speaker

Correction, he's good at reading a teleprompter....speaking off the cuff, no way.

Good point. I try to think of it like this. I interview people all the time. I look at the resume and look for stuff like their past history, do they have good experience, have they been apart of teams that have led to an end result. What organizations are they or were a part of. Do they have the education, experience, work history that would support me trusting them with my company. Would you hire someone with very little to no experience or would you hire someone who has years and years. I tend to lead to the more experienced one because they have already proven that they can take the lead and run with the ball. To me, McCain has the better resume.
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