Would you be happy if our Tiger football team went 7-5 this season and made an apperance in the New Orleans Bowl?
Would that make you happy? Mildly satisfied? Excited?
What if we went 7-5 EVERY YEAR? What would you think?
With this schedule I think the standard should be set at 8-4. If we win more, gravy. A 7-5 season will be somewhat disappointing but unless your talking BCS, a bowl is a bowl, and with CUSA's bowl tie-ins that is what we need to do every season.
oruvoice Wrote:Would you be happy if our Tiger football team went 7-5 this season and made an apperance in the New Orleans Bowl?
Would that make you happy? Mildly satisfied? Excited?
What if we went 7-5 EVERY YEAR? What would you think?
i'd be happier with 8-4, but i'd be "mildly satisfied" with 7-5.
if we went 7-5 every year, there would be a problem. you have to improve, not remain stagnant.
however, improvement could be in different areas, not just wins, necessarily. if we went 7-5 for a couple of years after this one with an improved schedule, that would be one thing. but after a couple of years i'd expect improvement upon that in some way.
Excellent question.
6 years ago, someone asked me what I wanted for Tiger Football. My answer was "I want to go 8-3 every year and play in a bowl game".
Fast forward...we've gotten a taste of success. I think that getting a conference title should be the standard. Competing for a conference title every year should be what we are expecting. Folks that want 12-0 and a BC$ bowl at this point in our history are thinking too far ahead. We've got a lot of things (administration, funding levels, perceptions, etc.) that have to change to get there.
Let's win CUSA first, and go from there.
Some good points. I don't think 7-5 year after year is moving forward.
I like the vision that Coach West has for the program. Get the program to the level that you are going to bowl games almost every year. The next step is to get the program where it is among the top of the C-USA every year. The next step would be to be one of, if not the dominant program in C-USA. The final step would be to challenge for a BcS bowl game. Other than being included in a BcS conference, don't think there is any more rungs on this ladder.
I think we are ready for the next step and should take it this year or next.
I would be happy if we would beat the teams we're supposed to and upset a few that we should lose to.
That should be worth at least eight wins.
I'd prefer a division title with the opportunity to go to the Liberty Bowl. Another trip to the New Orleans Bowl or a losing season would be a disappointment.
After a few years, I would expect even more improvement.
Win the East and nothing less.
To me, it is irrelevant until real committment is made. The coach has said we are maxed out unless things change. He should know better than any of us. Until people get their head out of their butts and force the leadership of the city and school to give football a chance, nothing better is around the corner for any coach here. We are getting to bowls now...imagine what could happen if we actually did what bigtime programs did, lol? The shot for 8-4 is a good choice, I guess. I would love 10-2 but we don't deserve that.
Strat57 Wrote:To me, it is irrelevant until real committment is made. The coach has said we are maxed out unless things change. He should know better than any of us. Until people get their head out of their butts and force the leadership of the city and school to give football a chance, nothing better is around the corner for any coach here. We are getting to bowls now...imagine what could happen if we actually did what bigtime programs did, lol? The shot for 8-4 is a good choice, I guess. I would love 10-2 but we don't deserve that.
Strat, my only fear is that if (and I hope this isn't the case) we tank this year, folks are going to say that TW has already built up his excuse for under performing this year.
I agree that we'll be in the 9-3/8-4 range.
You are wrong about one thing.
Folks like you, Jeb, GA, Oldtiger, and others that have been through so much more with this program deserve a few 10-2/11-1/12-0 type seasons....Goodness knows you've seen enough of the inverse...LOL
madtiger Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:To me, it is irrelevant until real committment is made. The coach has said we are maxed out unless things change. He should know better than any of us. Until people get their head out of their butts and force the leadership of the city and school to give football a chance, nothing better is around the corner for any coach here. We are getting to bowls now...imagine what could happen if we actually did what bigtime programs did, lol? The shot for 8-4 is a good choice, I guess. I would love 10-2 but we don't deserve that.
Strat, my only fear is that if (and I hope this isn't the case) we tank this year, folks are going to say that TW has already built up his excuse for under performing this year.
I agree that we'll be in the 9-3/8-4 range.
You are wrong about one thing.
Folks like you, Jeb, GA, Oldtiger, and others that have been through so much more with this program deserve a few 10-2/11-1/12-0 type seasons....Goodness knows you've seen enough of the inverse...LOL
I know. I just get frustrated knowing that more is out there for us if we really take the plunge. I know that he is not coming out with his remarks to get an excuse beforehand. Something is in the air and he is trying to get out in front of it. We just need to be patient, as jeb suggested. His study is meant to show where we need to do better to compete at a level where he expects us to be at in the future. No matter who is the coach, the issues he raised are very real and have been a problem for every coach since Pancoast. Yeah, I could wrap my head around a 10-2, lol, and a Liberty Bowl. I just think that we really need to rectify the longstanding problems and make this the program that Bear Bryant said that it could be. I want to believe that we will get that opportunity to be in a BCS league and be a bigtime player. I also know that things will have to change at many levels to do that. Thanks for including me in that group of guys...they care and show with their efforts.
I appreciate the responses.
I guess that the place where some of us differ is that one group thinks that we must have new facilities and more money spent BEFORE we "take the next step" and the other group (myself included) thinks that we are capable of taking the next step BEFORE some of those 'improvements' are made.
My point of reference (living in Tulsa) is seeing what Kragthorpe and now Graham have done at Tulsa over the past 6-7 years, with LESS facilities, money, & support than what is CURRENTLY in place at Memphis.
The facilities were TOTAL CRAP when Kragthorpe arrived in Tulsa. In addition, the Hurricane were coming off of two seasons in which they won a grand total of 3 games and he turned TU into an 8 win bowl team immediately! Then, within another 2 years, C-USA champs and Liberty Bowl victory. I'm sorry, if it can be done at TU, it can be done in Memphis!
Even though our (Memphis) facilities need improvements, there is A LOT to sell a recruit. Memphis is a great/fun town, with lots to do. Much more so than Tulsa.
When I'm home (Memphis) and I see/listen to Tommy West, I am just not terribly impressed. He seems like a nice guy. A solid guy. But, not very dynamic. He doesn't seem to INSPIRE or have the 'sales' skills necessary to be a great recruiter. Several of my friends, who still live in Memphis and are fairly closely affiliated with the program do not disagree with my perceptions...
I am not trying to start a fight. And, I'll admit...after the first New Orleans Bowl season, I thought Tommy West was the savior! I sat through the late 70's, the 80's, & the 90's, loving the Tigers win, lose (mostly lose), or draw. So, I appreciate what TW has done. I just question whether he is the guy that can take us to the next level?
The one problem of comparing Tulsa to Memphis is what does Tulsa football play second fiddle to?!? Is Tulsa known as a baseball town or some other sport. Memphis has been, is and likely always will be a basketball town. There is no way to compare how we treat the football team with how we treat the basketball team here. I have looked at the money invested in the Tulsa program and your argument falls a little short there to as well.
Do I think Coach West is the absolute saviour of our program, not really sure one way or the other. But, I know that our program needs a whole lot in order for it to be saved.
I also don't think going to the N.O. Bowl is always such a disappointment. While it doesn't have the prestige (?!?) of the other bowls for C-USA, I think if it isn't the Liberty Bowl, that is my second choice for a bowl.
My honest answer is no, I would NOT be happy or satisfied with a constant 7-5 record year after year. As others mentioned, the goal is to improve and compete for titles.
The ultimate goal is to attain BCS membership and start collecting the additional $8-11mm each May from the conference office.
ORUVoice, you make a good point about Tulsa making fast progress. Central Florida did as well, going from 0-11 to the C-USA East title in the next season. But I also notice both of those programs are having improvements made on their campus for athletics, particularly football. Tulsa already had Skelly Stadium on their campus, which means they had a leg up on MEMPHIS to start. You can bet both Kragthorpe and O'Leary made those improvement plans clear to recruits. I remember reading an article about how the UCF players were so highly motivated in 2005-06 just seeing THEIR on campus stadium being built, along with the IPF and other football facilities.
West cannot hide the lack of facilities from recruits that are considering MEMPHIS as well as SEC schools, Middle Tenn, Tulsa, So Miss, etc. Recruits are not stupid nor are they blind. They can see what schools make the commitment and which ones do not.
Honestly, if I were a recruit in this metro area and was being pursued heavily by MEMPHIS, Central Florida, Middle Tenn, and Tulsa I would give a very serious look to Orlando.
We all expect the local kids to give MEMPHIS loyalty points in recruiting, but the hard truth is LOYALTY requires COMMITMENT and that is not evident at MEMPHIS. And it hasn't been a factor for the football program since the early 70's.
Your second question is interesting as well. Is West the coach that can take MEMPHIS to the next level?
I personally think so but who really knows? I would love to swap O'Leary for West and see how the two programs fare under the new regimes. How would O'Leary deal with the facilities at MEMPHIS and how would West deal with the facilities at UCF. Would MEMPHIS suddenly take off and UCF flounder? Or would the current status continue unabated?
$5mm in financial commitment to MEMPHIS football since 2002 and $79mm financial commitment to Central Florida football since 2000. Seriously, just how BREATHTAKING is that FACT? That blew me away when West talked about it in the interview on June 2.
West will be the coach until the few supporters who pony up his bucks get tired of him. It is the same as Calipari. When the 4-5 people who pay his salary decide he needs to go, he will be gone.
The football program will be in the 7-8 game win mode in "good seasons" until a better commitment is made by the Administration and private donors. Don't get me wrong - a few exceptional players or games could push the record to 9 or 10 wins in a given season. DeAngelo and Wimprine proved that from 2003-2004.
But what we all seek is consistent big winning. That takes real commitment from the players, the coaches, the Administration, the fans, the supporters, and the big money boosters. Period.
Tulsa is also a private university and is in charge of its own destiny. It also has quite of bit of money available to tap into.
Oh how short memory can be sometimes for all of us.
Only 10 short years ago, we would have been doing backflips to be having winning seasons and going to bowls 5 of the last 6 years. What I said then was "I'd be happy with winning seasons, winning 8-9 games every 4 or 5 years and going to bowls consistangly." I'm torn between that statement and now going to "the next level", whatever that really is.
For folks that have been around a long time, I'm sure I'm not the only one who promised ourselves that if we ever got to where we are now, we'd be happy. A lot of us dreamed of the seasons that we experienced 2003 and beyond.
Some people were disappointed last year with 7-5 and the New Orleans bowl. I was happy with it, because it beat the S**t out of 2-10 the year before! I understand that last year was below the level we want for our program, but if you look at it in the context of the 2006 season, it was a great improvement.
Long-term I would want us to be between 8-4 and 12-0 every year, competing for C-USA titles every year (and winning some). I would like to see at least 8-4 this year, just to keep the improvement going, but I look at the other C-USA East teams, and most of them deserve a great record too. We can't all go 6-2 in conference, someone has to lose.
We also really need to sign a great HS QB. We got one transition (adjusting to the 1-A game) year out of Hankins, and then one good year. We may get the same from Hall (I don't know what to expect since I've never seen him play). It would be nice to get a worthwhile freshman QB, start him as a freshman and let him get used to the game, then get 3 years of good play from the QB. We haven't had a great QB come from highschool since Danny Wimprine!
boss man Wrote:$5mm in financial commitment to MEMPHIS football since 2002 and $79mm financial commitment to Central Florida football since 2000. Seriously, just how BREATHTAKING is that FACT? That blew me away when West talked about it in the interview on June 2.
Wow. Another good question is, and think about your response before just reacting, do we really WANT Tiger football to be super successful after only putting $5MM into the program? What do you think the first thing out of RC's mouth (unofficially) after an 11-2 season with a LB win if we were to do so this season.
My best guess......"See, we don't need financial commitment to be successful."
People need to quit referring to the 2007 record as 7-5.
It was 7-6.
Trying to ignore the New Orleans Bowl result will not make it go away.
geosnooker2000 Wrote:boss man Wrote:$5mm in financial commitment to MEMPHIS football since 2002 and $79mm financial commitment to Central Florida football since 2000. Seriously, just how BREATHTAKING is that FACT? That blew me away when West talked about it in the interview on June 2.
Wow. Another good question is, and think about your response before just reacting, do we really WANT Tiger football to be super successful after only putting $5MM into the program? What do you think the first thing out of RC's mouth (unofficially) after an 11-2 season with a LB win if we were to do so this season.
My best guess......"See, we don't need financial commitment to be successful."
He has already done that dance, my friend. His entire vision is built on the premise that we can win enough to do bowls and he doesn't have to beat the bushes for more funding.The dumbing down of the schedule was a clear statement that we can do just enough without missing the naps. It takes money to build, recruit and sustain. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply not studying the business of college athletics. The sheer fact that he is speaking up is good news, in my book. Rip spoke up and fell out of favor long before he was removed. This is also not a football issue...every other sport faces the same hurdles other than basketball. I am of the age that I was around when we went to Pasadena in the ealry 70's. I never thought that we would see a bowl game, much less multiple ones. Like Bossman mentioned about recruits not being dumb, before the new building at the Murphy Complex, our showing recruits our facilities were two trips...one to the Liberty Bowl and the second a quick drive around the practice complex where they never were allowed off of the bus to see how outdated and unmaintained it was. We force a staff to go to a gunfight armed with a knife, lol.
tigernole79 Wrote:The one problem of comparing Tulsa to Memphis is what does Tulsa football play second fiddle to?!? Is Tulsa known as a baseball town or some other sport. Memphis has been, is and likely always will be a basketball town. There is no way to compare how we treat the football team with how we treat the basketball team here. I have looked at the money invested in the Tulsa program and your argument falls a little short there to as well.
Tulsa plays 3rd fiddle to Oklahoma and OSU. It has never been known as anything.
Thanks to all for the thoughtful conversation and not taking shots at me.
I love Tiger football. I DESPERATELY want it to succeed on a BIG TIME level. But, after the past two seasons, I am really frustrated because I THOUGHT we had turned the corner.
oruvoice Wrote:But, after the past two seasons, I am really frustrated because I THOUGHT we had turned the corner.
Yeah, it certainly seemed that way. Wimprine left and we had Patrick Byrne, who had been handling kickoffs and getting practice as QB for 2 years, coming in for his Jr year, with Will Hudgens behind him, who had been around the program a year already. Then what? the 2nd or 3rd play of the season, the broken leg. Will was nearly able to get us the win in that game anyway. Then one game from him that was a win, then part of another game before he went down. Even though, thanks to Maurice Avery, we were able to have a decent year anyway, that was a really big blow, losing the 2 QB's with all the time invested in them. We had the QB spot apparently manned well for 4 years and it all went down the drain. What if it had been Jr + Sr Byrne, Sr Hankins, Sr Hudgens? Then maybe Jr + Sr Malouf? I felt bad for Byrne because the next year Hankins was eligible and Byrne couldn't get the starting spot back.
The good thing is at least we recovered from the train wreck 2-10 with 7-5 (7-6), and didn't have to build back up 4-8, 5-7, 6-6.
To answer your original question, no I wouldn't be happy with 7-5, but I would be satified if we played well and just got beat by 5 better teams. I've said several times in various threads that I think the occasional poor play and dunderhead plays and blown plays that the Tigers are cursed with are what take the wind out of fans' sails and make it hard to root for the Tigers.
oruvoice Wrote:Thanks to all for the thoughtful conversation and not taking shots at me.
I love Tiger football. I DESPERATELY want it to succeed on a BIG TIME level. But, after the past two seasons, I am really frustrated because I THOUGHT we had turned the corner.
Many of us hoped that we had turnerd the corner. As it turned out, we got a small bump of money for staff but really no large influx of capital or season ticket public after the first NO Bowl. If things were going to really open up, it would have been then due to the bowl game and returning stars. It may now be strictly up to getting into the BE for any real shot at bigtime success.
Dak10, do we really want to go through all the list of schools that we play second fiddle to as far as football goes in Memphis!?!
I was speaking of the fact, and I thought it was quite obvious if you can read, that Memphis' football team is a step-child to the golden boy that is our basketball team. Perfect case in point, look at the amount of threads, worry and angst that a backup player leaving the program causes compared to the the threads about our likely starting QB deciding to transfer. That is probably the most important player on our football team deciding to leave and it is barely a blip compared to Mack's leaving.
Just look at what we put in to our football program. Minimum effort usually equals minimum results. To me, at least, these results are better than minimum. While I am not happy with 7-5 and smaller bowl games, beats the crap out of continual losing seasons and no bowls. It is going to take a lot more than just a new coach to get us to the level that some on this board want. And it will take A LOT more than just sitting back and complaining about it.
Here is my question for all sides of this TW debate. Okay we have established the fact, and it seems that we all agree, that money and fundraising are a HUGE problem for the Football Tigers? If we actually all do agree on this, instead of constantly complaining about it shouldn't we try to do something? Can anyone answer me if it is even possible for the HH to attempt to renegotiate their contract with the University and get out from under their umbrella? It seems to me we all want to same things, Tiger football success and we all agree we need money but the HH hands are tired due to being under the University's umbrella. SO does it not make sense to explore the idea of getting out from that umbrella? We (the HH) already have the group of people together who are die hard Tiger fb fans, who have shown their willingness to fundraise. Just think if we could do it on our own without having to ask the University's permission.
NOTE TO ALL READERS OF THE ABOVE POST: I am by NO MEANS bashing the HH. I understand what the groups purpose is and respect those who voluntarily get things done. I only suggest a sort of reorganization (that is really not the proper word at all but...) as a means to attain the goal we all have to keep Tiger football moving FORWARD not backwards. Also, I have no problem discussing this idea in person with board members, I am related to one, but I have not had the appropriate setting to do so.
Strat57 Wrote:Rip spoke up and fell out of favor long before he was removed.
This is one area where Tommy DEFINITELY has an advantage.
People roll their eyes and laugh when I say things like this, but I'll say it anyway.
Tommy and his 'aw shucks' personality will get a lot further than Rip's soft spoken personality.
I'll also say this...there are few finer men in this world than Rip. A wonderful guy who was doomed before he walked in the door. I wanted Rip to succeed- badly. He just couldn't...add in the fact that he wouldn't play "the game", and he never had a chance.
I'm personally very proud of the fact that in recent history, we've had a couple of very fine MEN at the head of our football program. Coaching ability can be argued all day, but the fact that these are guys that do it the right way speaks volumes.
I'd rather lose 100 games and do things by the book, than have one 'big' season and get beset with probation- and lets be honest... when this program takes off, there are certain schools that will try to uncover every stone they can- they KNOW that this is a 'sleeping giant'..
I'm thankful Tommy has spoken up- I am hopeful that he'll keep turning that knob to keep the heat on.
I too thought that we had turned a corner; but a lot folks, fans included, slept walked through the post-DW era and it has cost us dearly.
madtiger Wrote:I'd rather lose 100 games and do things by the book, than have one 'big' season and get beset with probation-
ditto
the other Greg Childers Wrote:People need to quit referring to the 2007 record as 7-5.
It was 7-6.
Trying to ignore the New Orleans Bowl result will not make it go away.
I wasn't trying to make the NO Bowl result go away. I was just using the regular season record as a comparison to the previous season's record (with no bowl game).
Besides, is there a big difference between 7-5 and 7-6?
PlainTiger Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:People need to quit referring to the 2007 record as 7-5.
It was 7-6.
Trying to ignore the New Orleans Bowl result will not make it go away.
I wasn't trying to make the NO Bowl result go away. I was just using the regular season record as a comparison to the previous season's record (with no bowl game).
Besides, is there a big difference between 7-5 and 7-6?
There is if the extra loss is a 17 point loss to a Sun Belt team that has only been Division 1-A for two years.
madtiger Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:Rip spoke up and fell out of favor long before he was removed.
This is one area where Tommy DEFINITELY has an advantage.
People roll their eyes and laugh when I say things like this, but I'll say it anyway.
Tommy and his 'aw shucks' personality will get a lot further than Rip's soft spoken personality.
I'll also say this...there are few finer men in this world than Rip. A wonderful guy who was doomed before he walked in the door. I wanted Rip to succeed- badly. He just couldn't...add in the fact that he wouldn't play "the game", and he never had a chance.
I'm personally very proud of the fact that in recent history, we've had a couple of very fine MEN at the head of our football program. Coaching ability can be argued all day, but the fact that these are guys that do it the right way speaks volumes.
I'd rather lose 100 games and do things by the book, than have one 'big' season and get beset with probation- and lets be honest... when this program takes off, there are certain schools that will try to uncover every stone they can- they KNOW that this is a 'sleeping giant'..
I'm thankful Tommy has spoken up- I am hopeful that he'll keep turning that knob to keep the heat on.
I too thought that we had turned a corner; but a lot folks, fans included, slept walked through the post-DW era and t has cost us dearly.
Thank you. You have touched on subjects very real. We have had success and attained it at the expense of probation. Our neighbors have turned us in at every opportunity while they get away with transgressions far more serious. As for Rip, I am glad to call him a friend. His success at Cleveland is one that I am happy about. You have a good point about TW's personality being a plus. I think that he is getting out in front of something bigger and I am very glad that he did speak out finally. Your final point about sleep walking is on point. Too many just thought things would take care of themselves once we started winning games. It didn't and money just didn't appear out of thin air. Once again, great post.
TigerChick Wrote:Here is my question for all sides of this TW debate. Okay we have established the fact, and it seems that we all agree, that money and fundraising are a HUGE problem for the Football Tigers? If we actually all do agree on this, instead of constantly complaining about it shouldn't we try to do something? Can anyone answer me if it is even possible for the HH to attempt to renegotiate their contract with the University and get out from under their umbrella? It seems to me we all want to same things, Tiger football success and we all agree we need money but the HH hands are tired due to being under the University's umbrella. SO does it not make sense to explore the idea of getting out from that umbrella? We (the HH) already have the group of people together who are die hard Tiger fb fans, who have shown their willingness to fundraise. Just think if we could do it on our own without having to ask the University's permission.
NOTE TO ALL READERS OF THE ABOVE POST: I am by NO MEANS bashing the HH. I understand what the groups purpose is and respect those who voluntarily get things done. I only suggest a sort of reorganization (that is really not the proper word at all but...) as a means to attain the goal we all have to keep Tiger football moving FORWARD not backwards. Also, I have no problem discussing this idea in person with board members, I am related to one, but I have not had the appropriate setting to do so.
I have always been led to believe that changing the status would be difficult due to different tax reasons and NCAA rules. I have never thought about it that much due to just being glad that RC doesn't have access to writing checks from HH money, lol. That would be dues would end up going elsewhere, lol. You have a good point and hope that someone can address that. When I was on the board, I was happy with the autonomy the the HH had since it was independent in many ways. Like you, forward is the way. Looking back at stats and saying one guy is worse than the next is misleading. If I was in charge, I would be publicly giving a vision and working towards that. Louisville sure did and they got rewarded for it. We need to be ready for what lies ahead, don't we? Oh yeah, I miss seeing you and your squeeze on Beale on weekends. Traveling and more money just was more important than Silky's patio, lol. I do miss our conversations.
Strat57 Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:Here is my question for all sides of this TW debate. Okay we have established the fact, and it seems that we all agree, that money and fundraising are a HUGE problem for the Football Tigers? If we actually all do agree on this, instead of constantly complaining about it shouldn't we try to do something? Can anyone answer me if it is even possible for the HH to attempt to renegotiate their contract with the University and get out from under their umbrella? It seems to me we all want to same things, Tiger football success and we all agree we need money but the HH hands are tired due to being under the University's umbrella. SO does it not make sense to explore the idea of getting out from that umbrella? We (the HH) already have the group of people together who are die hard Tiger fb fans, who have shown their willingness to fundraise. Just think if we could do it on our own without having to ask the University's permission.
NOTE TO ALL READERS OF THE ABOVE POST: I am by NO MEANS bashing the HH. I understand what the groups purpose is and respect those who voluntarily get things done. I only suggest a sort of reorganization (that is really not the proper word at all but...) as a means to attain the goal we all have to keep Tiger football moving FORWARD not backwards. Also, I have no problem discussing this idea in person with board members, I am related to one, but I have not had the appropriate setting to do so.
I have always been led to believe that changing the status would be difficult due to different tax reasons and NCAA rules. I have never thought about it that much due to just being glad that RC doesn't have access to writing checks from HH money, lol. That would be dues would end up going elsewhere, lol. You have a good point and hope that someone can address that. When I was on the board, I was happy with the autonomy the the HH had since it was independent in many ways. Like you, forward is the way. Looking back at stats and saying one guy is worse than the next is misleading. If I was in charge, I would be publicly giving a vision and working towards that. Louisville sure did and they got rewarded for it. We need to be ready for what lies ahead, don't we? Oh yeah, I miss seeing you and your squeeze on Beale on weekends. Traveling and more money just was more important than Silky's patio, lol. I do miss our conversations.
We haven't been to slicks very much lately. We ended up going for a few hours a couple of weekends ago and realized we have kinda out grown that place. We go to South main area a lot now. We were just talking about how we have not seen you in a while too. Good news though, we are planning on moving the tailgate party to the HH lot, so we will see you there for sure, right?
madtiger Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:Rip spoke up and fell out of favor long before he was removed.
- they KNOW that this is a 'sleeping giant'...
I also believe that our football program is a sleeping giant. I have ALWAYS thought this to be the case.
Perhaps, that is why I get so frustrated...
tigernole79 Wrote:Dak10, do we really want to go through all the list of schools that we play second fiddle to as far as football goes in Memphis!?!
I was speaking of the fact, and I thought it was quite obvious if you can read, that Memphis' football team is a step-child to the golden boy that is our basketball team. Perfect case in point, look at the amount of threads, worry and angst that a backup player leaving the program causes compared to the the threads about our likely starting QB deciding to transfer. That is probably the most important player on our football team deciding to leave and it is barely a blip compared to Mack's leaving.
Just look at what we put in to our football program. Minimum effort usually equals minimum results. To me, at least, these results are better than minimum. While I am not happy with 7-5 and smaller bowl games, beats the crap out of continual losing seasons and no bowls. It is going to take a lot more than just a new coach to get us to the level that some on this board want. And it will take A LOT more than just sitting back and complaining about it.
If the football team was successful like the basketball program in its own way then more people would have been upset about Matt's departure.
But that is what my point has been. There are not enough people that bleed Tiger Blue for football as there are for basketball. I do know some that just don't like football as a whole, but most of the people I talk about are "big" basketball fans of the Tigers, but when it comes to football they root for Ole Miss, ut, or someone else.
You take a poll of most of the people on this board and they are basketball first then other sports after. It is why there is so much talk about basketball now and very little talk about football. Even during football season, many on this board are counting the days until basketball. I am one of the rare ones that was more excited about signing day than where we were ranked in basketball. Football is my absolute passion and so I care deeply about this program. So I see what it needs to make things the best they can be. We have a long way to go.
Quote:You take a poll of most of the people on this board and they are basketball first then other sports after. It is why there is so much talk about basketball now and very little talk about football. Even during football season, many on this board are counting the days until basketball.
Thank you, TigerNole. This is an
absolute fact.
I know we have many TIGER BB fans that are lukewarm TIGER FB at BEST.
Quote: I am one of the rare ones that was more excited about signing day than where we were ranked in basketball. Football is my absolute passion and so I care deeply about this program. So I see what it needs to make things the best they can be. We have a long way to go.
+ 1.
I have often wondered how GOOD the FB program can be if the same level of commitment and resources were put into it like basketball.
Quote:Okay we have established the fact, and it seems that we all agree, that money and fundraising are a HUGE problem for the Football Tigers? If we actually all do agree on this, instead of constantly complaining about it shouldn't we try to do something? Can anyone answer me if it is even possible for the HH to attempt to renegotiate their contract with the University and get out from under their umbrella? It seems to me we all want to same things, Tiger football success and we all agree we need money but the HH hands are tired due to being under the University's umbrella. SO does it not make sense to explore the idea of getting out from that umbrella? We (the HH) already have the group of people together who are die hard Tiger fb fans, who have shown their willingness to fundraise. Just think if we could do it on our own without having to ask the University's permission.
TigerChick, good question and I know you have raised this issue before on the D-F board.
Like Strat, I have heard the HH cannot break away from the tax issues (representing the University?). I may not be phrasing it correctly but there is some legal precedent that will not allow the HH to become an "independent" booster group.
HOWEVER....what would be cool is to have an organization that is NOT connected officially to the University but works to financially spur things forward. Doesn't Mississippi have such a group? The difference is the Rebel alumni truly remain loyal to their school while the MEMPHIS alumni go their own way after graduation for the most part.
Until that specific issue is addressed, TIGER fans can only donate to the football in two ways that I am aware of -
1) Donate via the Highland Hundred.
2) Donate via the University Foundation and earmark the gift to "football".
I presume if a T. Boone Pickens level donor suddenly walked up to the AOB, it would be option 2 that he/she would use for their multi-million dolar donation.
tigernole79 Wrote:... Football is my absolute passion and so I care deeply about this program. ...
I love our basketball program and where Cal has taken us. I get chills everytime i see us mentioned with Duke, KY, etc.
However, there's nothing like those blue helmets reflecting the bright sun on a green field, seeing the band and that trailer with TOM circling the field with the cheerleaders on top...there's nothing like a fall afternoon of Memphis football. From my first live game in 1962, it's just a great experience.
TigerChick Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:Here is my question for all sides of this TW debate. Okay we have established the fact, and it seems that we all agree, that money and fundraising are a HUGE problem for the Football Tigers? If we actually all do agree on this, instead of constantly complaining about it shouldn't we try to do something? Can anyone answer me if it is even possible for the HH to attempt to renegotiate their contract with the University and get out from under their umbrella? It seems to me we all want to same things, Tiger football success and we all agree we need money but the HH hands are tired due to being under the University's umbrella. SO does it not make sense to explore the idea of getting out from that umbrella? We (the HH) already have the group of people together who are die hard Tiger fb fans, who have shown their willingness to fundraise. Just think if we could do it on our own without having to ask the University's permission.
NOTE TO ALL READERS OF THE ABOVE POST: I am by NO MEANS bashing the HH. I understand what the groups purpose is and respect those who voluntarily get things done. I only suggest a sort of reorganization (that is really not the proper word at all but...) as a means to attain the goal we all have to keep Tiger football moving FORWARD not backwards. Also, I have no problem discussing this idea in person with board members, I am related to one, but I have not had the appropriate setting to do so.
I have always been led to believe that changing the status would be difficult due to different tax reasons and NCAA rules. I have never thought about it that much due to just being glad that RC doesn't have access to writing checks from HH money, lol. That would be dues would end up going elsewhere, lol. You have a good point and hope that someone can address that. When I was on the board, I was happy with the autonomy the the HH had since it was independent in many ways. Like you, forward is the way. Looking back at stats and saying one guy is worse than the next is misleading. If I was in charge, I would be publicly giving a vision and working towards that. Louisville sure did and they got rewarded for it. We need to be ready for what lies ahead, don't we? Oh yeah, I miss seeing you and your squeeze on Beale on weekends. Traveling and more money just was more important than Silky's patio, lol. I do miss our conversations.
We haven't been to slicks very much lately. We ended up going for a few hours a couple of weekends ago and realized we have kinda out grown that place. We go to South main area a lot now. We were just talking about how we have not seen you in a while too. Good news though, we are planning on moving the tailgate party to the HH lot, so we will see you there for sure, right?
Yeah, now that I am no longer a "defacto soul brother", I am not doing the Alumni tailgates any longer. I miss seeing you guys. I do my Monday night trio and that is it. Let me know when you are going to hang at Calhoun's. I have some time now before I leave for England to hoist a couple.
These last few posts by Bossman and Tigernole hit a point that is really at the crux of the issue. When Memphis made that first NO Bowl, many thought that we had arrived and after seeing that throng make the trip to the game I was excited because I saw the "heavy hitters" on the basketball side all enjoying themelves. But, of course, fast forward to the next football season and they were back to their original allegiances. Tigerchick has a huge point about the Ole Miss Loyalty Foundation. The problem for Memphis is that there is NO LOYALTY. Too many get a degree, get detached, and never do squat that helps. It is not about asking for a huge check but if a 100,000 that say they care would give $50, it would be a great start. Is that too much to ask? The University of Memphis is the single greatest asset the city has, next to FEDEX. It's success is crucial to the quality of life here. To treat is shabbily is counter productive to the well being of the citizens. The sports idenity has been important in creating a bond between races, people, and creeds. It is THAT important.
I want football to succeed. I want the "bells and whistles" to give whoever the coach is to live or die on that sword that has never been given to them. I want these things because I have known good, decent, bright football men get fired and ridiculed for something that no one has managed to do for very long...win. I know that there is no money available. I also know that I suspect that those who get paid for that could do better but leadership is lacking on Normal in many areas. We all know this to be true, dont' we? Tickets anyone, lol? How's that brochure thing working out, lol? We need vision, energy, and passion. That "thinkers doers" crap is just that...a literary bowel movement dreamed up by someone who could have spent better use of their time finding money for the university. It is up to us, sports fans.
madtiger Wrote:I'm personally very proud of the fact that in recent history, we've had a couple of very fine MEN at the head of our football program. Coaching ability can be argued all day, but the fact that these are guys that do it the right way speaks volumes.
I'd rather lose 100 games and do things by the book, than have one 'big' season and get beset with probation-
Yeah, that's one little point that the anti-West posters seem to forget when they bring up the Clemson stats; after Danny Ford and Ken Hatfield, Clemson was lucky to still have a team.
Why is this thread in the smack forum?
calfan1 Wrote:Why is this thread in the smack forum?
Because of post #6, I presume. Not a good reason.
geosnooker2000 Wrote:calfan1 Wrote:Why is this thread in the smack forum?
Because of post #6, I presume. Not a good reason.
No, this thread was already on the smack forum when I posted on it.
Quote:Comments
PirateMarv (13) - Last updated 06-12-2008, 10:48 PM
Positive: At least you are an equal opportunity basher. Any man that will bash his own team, as well as his conference is either really negative or is just telling like it is. Sometimes you just tell it like it is, regardless of who gets pissed.
Nice. I am sure the ECU guys just love him.
calfan1 Wrote:Why is this thread in the smack forum?
I started the thread in the "smack" forum.
From my experience, we can't seem to have an honest dicussion about Tiger football or any questioning of TW, that doesn't turn into a bunch of mud slinging and personal attacks. So, I started it here.
To my surprise, it has been a good thread with differing takes, that has stayed away for becoming a personal insult-fest.
I have a suspicion that if my honest questions in the first post would have been made on the main board, a few folks might have taken it the wrong way and started accusing me of not being a real fan.
oruvoice Wrote:calfan1 Wrote:Why is this thread in the smack forum?
I started the thread in the "smack" forum.
From my experience, we can't seem to have an honest dicussion about Tiger football or any questioning of TW, that doesn't turn into a bunch of mud slinging and personal attacks. So, I started it here.
To my surprise, it has been a good thread with differing takes, that has stayed away for becoming a personal insult-fest.
I have a suspicion that if my honest questions in the first post would have been made on the main board, a few folks might have taken it the wrong way and started accusing me of not being a real fan.
Here's an honest question. Who is going to buy out TW's contract? That is what I want to know. The guys who want him fired aren't willingly to step up, the ones who pay him are happy, and those few who have the money have said that they might not be willing to pay for a new coach if he was bought out. Oh yeah, those who are paying the salary are also those trying to get us into the BE. Until people really do more than talk, nothing will change. This is not a discussion but a continuation of a handful of posters wishing for something that they have no appetite for working towards. This is a business that some want rewards from and never invest in. It is that simple.
Strat57 Wrote:Here's an honest question. Who is going to buy out TW's contract? That is what I want to know. The guys who want him fired aren't willingly to step up, the ones who pay him are happy, and those few who have the money have said that they might not be willing to pay for a new coach if he was bought out. Oh yeah, those who are paying the salary are also those trying to get us into the BE. Until people really do more than talk, nothing will change. This is not a discussion but a continuation of a handful of posters wishing for something that they have no appetite for working towards. This is a business that some want rewards from and never invest in. It is that simple.
You make some valid points.
I really think that this year and the next will tell the tale of the direction of our head coach...he's had a chance to put his personal health issues aside and hopefully maintain some stability in the OC and DC positions.
Football is unique in that it requires a phenomenal level of financial support to adequately compete/recruit against the regional BCS programs surrounding the Tiger football program.
One place to start would be for the current administration to publicly commit to initiating a multi-year OCS fundraising drive. Perhaps one way we could get Shirley and Company to agree to reconsider the OCS funding effort would be do do a combined Academic/OCS campaign (i.e. your $100 contribution will automatically be split 50/50 (or some other formula) between some sort of academic building/football stadium fund). I know I would be ALOT MORE INTERESTED in commiting funds for Shirley's pet projects if I knew that some of the money was guaranteed to be credited towards an OCS at some point in the future...opinions anyone?
Strat57 Wrote:oruvoice Wrote:calfan1 Wrote:Why is this thread in the smack forum?
I started the thread in the "smack" forum.
From my experience, we can't seem to have an honest dicussion about Tiger football or any questioning of TW, that doesn't turn into a bunch of mud slinging and personal attacks. So, I started it here.
To my surprise, it has been a good thread with differing takes, that has stayed away for becoming a personal insult-fest.
I have a suspicion that if my honest questions in the first post would have been made on the main board, a few folks might have taken it the wrong way and started accusing me of not being a real fan.
Here's an honest question. Who is going to buy out TW's contract? That is what I want to know. The guys who want him fired aren't willingly to step up, the ones who pay him are happy, and those few who have the money have said that they might not be willing to pay for a new coach if he was bought out. Oh yeah, those who are paying the salary are also those trying to get us into the BE. Until people really do more than talk, nothing will change. This is not a discussion but a continuation of a handful of posters wishing for something that they have no appetite for working towards. This is a business that some want rewards from and never invest in. It is that simple.
Strat...I understand your points and I do not disagree with you. I get it.
That said, I (and more than just a few others on this board) think that Memphis football is a "sleeping giant". It's just unfortunate that the "money" people do not seem to feel the same way.
oruvoice Wrote:....That said, I (and more than just a few others on this board) think that Memphis football is a "sleeping giant". It's just unfortunate that the "money" people do not seem to feel the same way.
It takes all of us......
-For some that's buying season tickets.
-For some it's HH membership and buying season tickets
-For some TSF donations, HH membership, and buying season tickets
-For some it's large donations, HH membership, and buying season tickets
-For some it's distributing posters to businesses
-For some it's all of the above
Each and every one of us is important and we all play a part.....just try to make your part count as much as you can.
tigernole79 Wrote:I also don't think going to the N.O. Bowl is always such a disappointment. While it doesn't have the prestige (?!?) of the other bowls for C-USA, I think if it isn't the Liberty Bowl, that is my second choice for a bowl.
Yeah, but being the first bowl game, in a tie as the lowest paying, and featuring a Sun Belt team slams it, regardless of its great location for Tiger fans. If they come up with a sponsor and money, St. Pete with it's Big East tie-in will likely be everyone's preferred consolation prize. The Sheraton Hawaii Bowl will likely suffer due to increased airfare. The Armed Forces Bowl isn't likely to take off.