Most losses by a Tiger football coach:
61 - Zach Curlin (13 seasons)
44 - Billy J. "Spook" Murphy (14 seasons)
44 - Rip Scherer (6 seasons)
44 - Tommy West (7 seasons)
43 - Ralph Hatley (11 seasons)
Of those listed above, only Billy J. "Spook" Murphy (67.3%) and Ralph Hatley (57.5%) have overall winning records.
With one more loss, Tommy will have second place all to himself. He managed to tie Spook Murphy in half as many seasons.
dude, has someone pissed you off today or what?
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Most losses by a Tiger football coach:
61 - Zach Curlin (13 seasons)
44 - Billy J. "Spook" Murphy (14 seasons)
44 - Rip Scherer (6 seasons)
44 - Tommy West (7 seasons)
43 - Ralph Hatley (11 seasons)
Of those listed above, only Billy J. "Spook" Murphy (67.3%) and Ralph Hatley (57.5%) have overall winning records.
With one more loss, Tommy will have second place all to himself. He managed to tie Spook Murphy in half as many seasons.
TW would need like 50 more wins to tie Spook's record for most wins. It would probably take him 9 or 10 more years to do that if he keeps up his blazing pace. Don't we play more games now than Spook's teams did?
Stats like these make me wonder why so many tiger fans think that TW is the 2nd coming.
I can't see how he could remain here if this season turns out to be like the last 7.
Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
No one is angry at you. They just laugh at you like the folks on Normal do.
Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
No one is angry at you. They just laugh at you like the folks on Normal do.
I'll be around much longer than they will.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
No one is angry at you. They just laugh at you like the folks on Normal do.
I'll be around much longer than they will.
No doubt about that. No coach these days stays forever anywhere for any reason. Bowden and paterno are throwbacks to the era gone by. RC will retire. Hell, I might even die today. One thing that will be around longer for sure is that guys like you will never get it. You are part of the problem and not a solution. All of your protestations are just dust in the wind. Those of us who knew about the study and its contents are the ones trying to make football better. Those who post real info here are trying to make it better. Those who join the HH and participate are REALLY supporting things. The best that you can muster is "fire the coach" and have no clue about the entire dynamic over on Normal and what is really going on. That is fine by me because you are supplying some much needed humor for some people that like to laugh. Dude, no one hates you. No one cares that much about you and Dak to come close to that emotion, lol. You guys give yourselves far too much credit. I just wonder why "bigtime" supporters like you guys don't crack the piggie bank and give RC the coins to fire West. Money talks and I can guarantee you that if you pony up for the buyout he will listen to you. Oh yeah, he will be in tomorrow, lol.
Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
No one is angry at you. They just laugh at you like the folks on Normal do.
I'll be around much longer than they will.
No doubt about that. No coach these days stays forever anywhere for any reason. Bowden and paterno are throwbacks to the era gone by. RC will retire. Hell, I might even die today. One thing that will be around longer for sure is that guys like you will never get it. You are part of the problem and not a solution. All of your protestations are just dust in the wind. Those of us who knew about the study and its contents are the ones trying to make football better. Those who post real info here are trying to make it better. Those who join the HH and participate are REALLY supporting things. The best that you can muster is "fire the coach" and have no clue about the entire dynamic over on Normal and what is really going on. That is fine by me because you are supplying some much needed humor for some people that like to laugh. Dude, no one hates you. No one cares that much about you and Dak to come close to that emotion, lol. You guys give yourselves far too much credit. I just wonder why "bigtime" supporters like you guys don't crack the piggie bank and give RC the coins to fire West. Money talks and I can guarantee you that if you pony up for the buyout he will listen to you. Oh yeah, he will be in tomorrow, lol.
Money only goes so far, and programs with less have been beating us.
TW couldn't get the job done at Clemson where he had every resource he could possibly need. No reason to think he'll get it done here.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
No one is angry at you. They just laugh at you like the folks on Normal do.
I'll be around much longer than they will.
No doubt about that. No coach these days stays forever anywhere for any reason. Bowden and paterno are throwbacks to the era gone by. RC will retire. Hell, I might even die today. One thing that will be around longer for sure is that guys like you will never get it. You are part of the problem and not a solution. All of your protestations are just dust in the wind. Those of us who knew about the study and its contents are the ones trying to make football better. Those who post real info here are trying to make it better. Those who join the HH and participate are REALLY supporting things. The best that you can muster is "fire the coach" and have no clue about the entire dynamic over on Normal and what is really going on. That is fine by me because you are supplying some much needed humor for some people that like to laugh. Dude, no one hates you. No one cares that much about you and Dak to come close to that emotion, lol. You guys give yourselves far too much credit. I just wonder why "bigtime" supporters like you guys don't crack the piggie bank and give RC the coins to fire West. Money talks and I can guarantee you that if you pony up for the buyout he will listen to you. Oh yeah, he will be in tomorrow, lol.
Money only goes so far, and programs with less have been beating us.
TW couldn't get the job done at Clemson where he had every resource he could possibly need. No reason to think he'll get it done here.
Dude, you are a broken record with little or no substance. You have no ability to distinguish between what is real, and what are, in your mind, the facts. I can spit out numbers all day as well, but if you think that those are all of the determining factors in all of this you are more naive than you appear.
Until you get more involved and support the program , and put yourself in a better position to make any of these arguments intelligentlly, your protestations are just that, with little merit.
I can't read either of these two whiners because of the fantastic ignore feature.
But unfortunately I can read it when others quote them.
Strat and Chi nailed it as usual. Those are two, along with most everyone else on this board who go beyond "fan" and definitely qualify as "supporters". Yes, there is a DIFFERENCE.
Then there are those who are just content to whine and b!tch yet contribute ZERO to the program. The broken record of "fire West" and "look at the losses" without even fully understanding the impact of the pathetic level of comparitive commitment by the University to football is beyond stupid. It is ludicrious. It is vertically imbalanced to use that approach.
One thing I have to admit...you are consistant, lol. Did you not listen to the West interview? If not, you need to head over to WHBQ's site and do that.
Another broken record thread. I'm sorry I came over here and read it, except that it gives me a chance to say to the two perpetual whiners:
You don't have a clue!!
covingtontiger Wrote:Another broken record thread. I'm sorry I came over here and read it, except that it gives me a chance to say to the two perpetual whiners:
You don't have a clue!!
The interview should have made even the most naive aware of the program's pressing needs. The sad thing is that their main centerpiece is exactly what has been done over and over again...change coach's. Until a new influx of funding or league change occurs, nothing really will change. TW's needs are the same as Richard Williamson's...only 30 seasons removed, lol. The study that TW had done should hit home how we have fallen behind and how other schools are passing us by. Like you, this is just another piece of tripe but like Ron White said, "I had the right to remain silent...but I couldn't".
You guys are correct. Outside of the piece of my tuition that goes to athletics, I donate $0.00 to the athletic department. You got me.
However, I hope a day comes when I'm blessed with enough money to be able to walk in and buy TW's contract out. I'd become a hero years for years because I saved the Tiger Football program from mediocrity.
Dak10 Wrote:You guys are correct. Outside of the piece of my tuition that goes to athletics, I donate $0.00 to the athletic department. You got me.
However, I hope a day comes when I'm blessed with enough money to be able to walk in and buy TW's contract out. I'd become a hero years for years because I saved the Tiger Football program from mediocrity.
does that make you a plastic fan too ?
missjtiger Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:You guys are correct. Outside of the piece of my tuition that goes to athletics, I donate $0.00 to the athletic department. You got me.
However, I hope a day comes when I'm blessed with enough money to be able to walk in and buy TW's contract out. I'd become a hero years for years because I saved the Tiger Football program from mediocrity.
does that make you a plastic fan too ?
I don't thinks so. I don't really know what other people think about my fanhood though. It just isn't something I let get to me.
Dak10 Wrote:missjtiger Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:You guys are correct. Outside of the piece of my tuition that goes to athletics, I donate $0.00 to the athletic department. You got me.
However, I hope a day comes when I'm blessed with enough money to be able to walk in and buy TW's contract out. I'd become a hero years for years because I saved the Tiger Football program from mediocrity.
does that make you a plastic fan too ?
I don't thinks so. I don't really know what other people think about my fanhood though. It just isn't something I let get to me.
Fanhood might not be in question? Your knowledge of how things are and history are certainly are open for debate. It isn't about who is coach now but why NO ONE has succeeded. Maybe it ain't the coach, sherlock? The coach just let the cat out of the bag last Monday. Many of us already knew. I can give you phone numbers for two former head guys who will tell you the truth. Both have no axe to grind and are THRILLED to be where they are now. I get that you and Will Farrell hate West and want him gone. My question is who do expect to buy him out and then turn around hire a more expensive one? If those people existed for this program, then things would not be as they are. I realize that you and Chevy Chase will never be on the train that many of us have boarded. What I wonder is how long you can keep the folks on Normal laughing? So far, so good, lol.
Chi-Town Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
No one is angry at you. They just laugh at you like the folks on Normal do.
I'll be around much longer than they will.
No doubt about that. No coach these days stays forever anywhere for any reason. Bowden and paterno are throwbacks to the era gone by. RC will retire. Hell, I might even die today. One thing that will be around longer for sure is that guys like you will never get it. You are part of the problem and not a solution. All of your protestations are just dust in the wind. Those of us who knew about the study and its contents are the ones trying to make football better. Those who post real info here are trying to make it better. Those who join the HH and participate are REALLY supporting things. The best that you can muster is "fire the coach" and have no clue about the entire dynamic over on Normal and what is really going on. That is fine by me because you are supplying some much needed humor for some people that like to laugh. Dude, no one hates you. No one cares that much about you and Dak to come close to that emotion, lol. You guys give yourselves far too much credit. I just wonder why "bigtime" supporters like you guys don't crack the piggie bank and give RC the coins to fire West. Money talks and I can guarantee you that if you pony up for the buyout he will listen to you. Oh yeah, he will be in tomorrow, lol.
Money only goes so far, and programs with less have been beating us.
TW couldn't get the job done at Clemson where he had every resource he could possibly need. No reason to think he'll get it done here.
Dude, you are a broken record with little or no substance. You have no ability to distinguish between what is real, and what are, in your mind, the facts. I can spit out numbers all day as well, but if you think that those are all of the determining factors in all of this you are more naive than you appear.
Until you get more involved and support the program , and put yourself in a better position to make any of these arguments intelligentlly, your protestations are just that, with little merit.
Three Sun Belt teams beat us last year. All have lower attendance and a smaller football budget. Those are facts, not opinions.
TW had plenty of institutional support and high attendance at Clemson, who was the dominant team in the ACC. He was fired for his mediocre records. Those are facts, not opinons.
You are the naive one who thinks money=wins.
Naive to think that money=wins? lol...I guess thats why Ohio State is where they are today...has nothing to do with $. Who knew?
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Chi-Town Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
No one is angry at you. They just laugh at you like the folks on Normal do.
I'll be around much longer than they will.
No doubt about that. No coach these days stays forever anywhere for any reason. Bowden and paterno are throwbacks to the era gone by. RC will retire. Hell, I might even die today. One thing that will be around longer for sure is that guys like you will never get it. You are part of the problem and not a solution. All of your protestations are just dust in the wind. Those of us who knew about the study and its contents are the ones trying to make football better. Those who post real info here are trying to make it better. Those who join the HH and participate are REALLY supporting things. The best that you can muster is "fire the coach" and have no clue about the entire dynamic over on Normal and what is really going on. That is fine by me because you are supplying some much needed humor for some people that like to laugh. Dude, no one hates you. No one cares that much about you and Dak to come close to that emotion, lol. You guys give yourselves far too much credit. I just wonder why "bigtime" supporters like you guys don't crack the piggie bank and give RC the coins to fire West. Money talks and I can guarantee you that if you pony up for the buyout he will listen to you. Oh yeah, he will be in tomorrow, lol.
Money only goes so far, and programs with less have been beating us.
TW couldn't get the job done at Clemson where he had every resource he could possibly need. No reason to think he'll get it done here.
Dude, you are a broken record with little or no substance. You have no ability to distinguish between what is real, and what are, in your mind, the facts. I can spit out numbers all day as well, but if you think that those are all of the determining factors in all of this you are more naive than you appear.
Until you get more involved and support the program , and put yourself in a better position to make any of these arguments intelligentlly, your protestations are just that, with little merit.
Three Sun Belt teams beat us last year. All have lower attendance and a smaller football budget. Those are facts, not opinions.
TW had plenty of institutional support and high attendance at Clemson, who was the dominant team in the ACC. He was fired for his mediocre records. Those are facts, not opinons.
You are the naive one who thinks money=wins.
Naive, lol? Hey booby, I forgot more about this program than you will ever know. I have four decades of some involvement at one level or another. I have KNOWN the coach's and the what was promised and never delivered. Naive? I don't think so. Why is it that so many understand that the football program is under capitalized and only a handful don't? You fix facts to fit your position and then want to label those who have a clue. I don't think money equals wins...I do KNOW that the program is maxed out and underfunded and expecting more is totally foolsih when you compare what schools like Southern Miss. and ECU are doing. The truth is not out there for all to see and nothing you can say or do will change that fact. Naive? Not in this lifetime. Unlike you who choose to do nothing but whine, I choose to contibute. Unlike you who wants something for nothing, I actually participate. Unlike you who doesn't know the players without a scorecard, I know them. I know what has been promised, what has been spent, and why guys like you seem bent on the failed formula of replacing a coach. Naive? You will be hard pressed to find many to back that up, lol?
MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:Naive to think that money=wins? lol...I guess thats why Ohio State is where they are today...has nothing to do with $. Who knew?
Northwestern, Baylor, Duke, and Vanderbilt all have BCS money too.
It hasn't helped them win.
Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Chi-Town Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Strat57 Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Dak10 Wrote:Edit: lol, my rep has surpassed yours toGC, you need to step it up. Should have put this one on the Dockery-Finch.
I've decided that any threads I start about TW will be put here. It saves the mods the extra work of moving them.
You're right about TW catching Spook on the wins list. He's exactly 50 wins behind. The four coaches with the longest tenures at Memphis---Spook, Hatley, Curlin, and TW. Of those four, only TW and Curlin have losing records.
As for my rep points, they don't mean a lot to me. Somehow with all the anger directed at me, I've still managed to keep in the green.
No one is angry at you. They just laugh at you like the folks on Normal do.
I'll be around much longer than they will.
No doubt about that. No coach these days stays forever anywhere for any reason. Bowden and paterno are throwbacks to the era gone by. RC will retire. Hell, I might even die today. One thing that will be around longer for sure is that guys like you will never get it. You are part of the problem and not a solution. All of your protestations are just dust in the wind. Those of us who knew about the study and its contents are the ones trying to make football better. Those who post real info here are trying to make it better. Those who join the HH and participate are REALLY supporting things. The best that you can muster is "fire the coach" and have no clue about the entire dynamic over on Normal and what is really going on. That is fine by me because you are supplying some much needed humor for some people that like to laugh. Dude, no one hates you. No one cares that much about you and Dak to come close to that emotion, lol. You guys give yourselves far too much credit. I just wonder why "bigtime" supporters like you guys don't crack the piggie bank and give RC the coins to fire West. Money talks and I can guarantee you that if you pony up for the buyout he will listen to you. Oh yeah, he will be in tomorrow, lol.
Money only goes so far, and programs with less have been beating us.
TW couldn't get the job done at Clemson where he had every resource he could possibly need. No reason to think he'll get it done here.
Dude, you are a broken record with little or no substance. You have no ability to distinguish between what is real, and what are, in your mind, the facts. I can spit out numbers all day as well, but if you think that those are all of the determining factors in all of this you are more naive than you appear.
Until you get more involved and support the program , and put yourself in a better position to make any of these arguments intelligentlly, your protestations are just that, with little merit.
Three Sun Belt teams beat us last year. All have lower attendance and a smaller football budget. Those are facts, not opinions.
TW had plenty of institutional support and high attendance at Clemson, who was the dominant team in the ACC. He was fired for his mediocre records. Those are facts, not opinons.
You are the naive one who thinks money=wins.
Naive, lol? Hey booby, I forgot more about this program than you will ever know. I have four decades of some involvement at one level or another. I have KNOWN the coach's and the what was promised and never delivered. Naive? I don't think so. Why is it that so many understand that the football program is under capitalized and only a handful don't? You fix facts to fit your position and then want to label those who have a clue. I don't think money equals wins...I do KNOW that the program is maxed out and underfunded and expecting more is totally foolsih when you compare what schools like Southern Miss. and ECU are doing. The truth is not out there for all to see and nothing you can say or do will change that fact. Naive? Not in this lifetime. Unlike you who choose to do nothing but whine, I choose to contibute. Unlike you who wants something for nothing, I actually participate. Unlike you who doesn't know the players without a scorecard, I know them. I know what has been promised, what has been spent, and why guys like you seem bent on the failed formula of replacing a coach. Naive? You will be hard pressed to find many to back that up, lol?
For goodness sakes toGC, you've already embarressed yourself and had to apologize for talking about things that you are uninformed about. Please, for you own public image and everyone around you....give it a rest. No one outside of a very small circle of "pie in the sky" friends is listening.
The Highland Hundred renewal forms came in the email today. Join, become active, buy season tickets.....as a fan that's the best support we can give.
Clemson was the dominant team in the ACC!?!! In the decade that Coach West was there? I seem to remember a little school from Florida that joined the ACC in the early 90s and took more than half a decade to even lose an ACC game.
Why did FSU dominate the ACC, because they had MUCH better facilities, money, tradition and commitment to football. Prior to FSUs arrival, the ACC was known (and primarily still is) as a basketball league. Why is it that they are not the dominant force in the ACC anymore, the addition of Miami, Va Tech and Boston College, plus many schools (Clemson) have put A LOT more money into their programs in the last 10 years.
As for Vandy, Northwestern, Baylor, and Duke... Well, you lose on the Northwestern argument because the played in the Rose Bowl in the last decade after having a HORRIBLE program for years and a lot of it was because of $ from the BcS. And you prove our point exactly. Name one of those 4 schools that even give a shred of commitment to their football teams... Northwestern. Which is the ONLY one of those 4 that has been to a bowl game, does this not get boring for you. You make the same points over and over, but can't refute the counter points that others make to you.
No. Throwing money at the program is not the only thing that would totally solve Memphis' problem and then they would instantly win Liberty Bowls and possibly play in a BcS game. BUT without it, there is little chance to keep up with the teams that are making the investments in their programs. You like to point out Southern Miss, how a new coach helped land a top 25 recruiting class. BUT, well first, name me ONE publication that had them ranked in the top 25. But, also look at how much money they have just pumped into stadium and facility improvements.
Let's take a C-USA example, Tulane. Go out and hire an up-and-coming young coach, let him take you to new heights and then watch him leave for a school that has more money, tradition and a chance to play for a National Title (like Bowden going to Clemson). So, even if you bring in a great coach, what would make him stay here!?!
Yes, let's talk about Clemson.
Charlie Pell 1977-78 18-4-1 (80.4%)
Danny Ford 1978-89 96-29-4 (76.0%)
Ken Hatfield 1990-93 32-13-1 (70.7%)
Tommy West 1993-98 31-28 (52.5%)
Clemson was a dominant program since the late 1970s. That came to an abrupt halt when West became head coach. After West left, Bowden went 69-42 (62.2%).
Each of the programs I listed receive BCS checks, regardless of record. Three of them are perennial bottom-feeders, and Northwestern hasn't had a coach who finished with a winning record since Ara Parseghian (50.7%). All of them are long standing members of bigtime football conferences and they share in the revenue that their conference generates.
Yet, they all stink in football.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Yes, let's talk about Clemson.
Charlie Pell 1977-78 18-4-1 (80.4%)
Danny Ford 1978-89 96-29-4 (76.0%)
Ken Hatfield 1990-93 32-13-1 (70.7%)
Tommy West 1993-98 31-28 (52.5%)
Clemson was a dominant program since the late 1970s. That came to an abrupt halt when West became head coach. After West left, Bowden went 69-42 (62.2%).
Each of the programs I listed receive BCS checks, regardless of record. Three of them are perennial bottom-feeders, and Northwestern hasn't had a coach who finished with a winning record since Ara Parseghian (50.7%). All of them are long standing members of bigtime football conferences and they share in the revenue that their conference generates.
Yet, they all stink in football.
Look at those Clemson numbers again....The truth lies in the middle....
Tommy was probably not ready for that job, even he'll admit that...But think about the fact that you can probably safely say years 1-4 were with Ken Hatfield's recruits. Years 5 and 6 were admittedly with his recruits. Tommy B did pretty well with those players.
Is TW the greatest coach ever? No.
Is he the worst coach in our history? No.
I think the problem tOGC is that its the same thing from you, every day.
You don't think TW is the answer. Fine. There are a large group of people that would tend to agree with you (I'm still on the fence).
Give it a rest for a few days. 10 more threads about calling for TW's head aren't going to change things. I'm not going to sit here and give you (or anyone else for that matter) about what you do, or don't do for the U of M.
Do what you can, when you can, and how you want to.
That being said, we get the point.
madtiger Wrote:Look at those Clemson numbers again....The truth lies in the middle....
Tommy was probably not ready for that job, even he'll admit that...But think about the fact that you can probably safely say years 1-4 were with Ken Hatfield's recruits. Years 5 and 6 were admittedly with his recruits. Tommy B did pretty well with those players.
Is TW the greatest coach ever? No.
Is he the worst coach in our history? No.
I think the problem tOGC is that its the same thing from you, every day.
You don't think TW is the answer. Fine. There are a large group of people that would tend to agree with you (I'm still on the fence).
Give it a rest for a few days. 10 more threads about calling for TW's head aren't going to change things. I'm not going to sit here and give you (or anyone else for that matter) about what you do, or don't do for the U of M.
Do what you can, when you can, and how you want to.
That being said, we get the point.
1. I didn't start all these threads, nor did I hijack any threads. I'm just sticking to my initial point, which was that TW is not the guy to take us to the next level. Also, it's no longer just me. Aside from Dak10, who has become another target for the "Brand Standard" folks, there is an increasing number of posters who are questioning TW's abilities. The balance is shifting.
2. TW's records at Clemson (year-by-year)
1993 - 1-0 (took over for Ken Hatfield in Peach Bowl)
1994 - 5-6
1995 - 8-4
1996 - 7-5
1997 - 7-5
1998 - 3-8
Tommy won a bowl game with another coach's players, the team took a dip his first full year, he peaked the following year, slipped to two seven win seasons, and fell apart at the end.
In Tommy's career, he had one season at UTC (with a losing record), was hired as an assistant to Ken Hatfield (who left at the end of the season), Tommy slipped at Clemson, was hired as an assistant to Rip, and became head coach here. The only two division 1-A jobs he got were because the head coach left and he was their cheapest option.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:madtiger Wrote:Look at those Clemson numbers again....The truth lies in the middle....
Tommy was probably not ready for that job, even he'll admit that...But think about the fact that you can probably safely say years 1-4 were with Ken Hatfield's recruits. Years 5 and 6 were admittedly with his recruits. Tommy B did pretty well with those players.
Is TW the greatest coach ever? No.
Is he the worst coach in our history? No.
I think the problem tOGC is that its the same thing from you, every day.
You don't think TW is the answer. Fine. There are a large group of people that would tend to agree with you (I'm still on the fence).
Give it a rest for a few days. 10 more threads about calling for TW's head aren't going to change things. I'm not going to sit here and give you (or anyone else for that matter) about what you do, or don't do for the U of M.
Do what you can, when you can, and how you want to.
That being said, we get the point.
1. I didn't start all these threads, nor did I hijack any threads. I'm just sticking to my initial point, which was that TW is not the guy to take us to the next level. Also, it's no longer just me. Aside from Dak10, who has become another target for the "Brand Standard" folks, there is an increasing number of posters who are questioning TW's abilities. The balance is shifting.
2. TW's records at Clemson (year-by-year)
1993 - 1-0 (took over for Ken Hatfield in Peach Bowl)
1994 - 5-6
1995 - 8-4
1996 - 7-5
1997 - 7-5
1998 - 3-8
Tommy won a bowl game with another coach's players, the team took a dip his first full year, he peaked the following year, slipped to two seven win seasons, and fell apart at the end.
In Tommy's career, he had one season at UTC (with a losing record), was hired as an assistant to Ken Hatfield (who left at the end of the season), Tommy slipped at Clemson, was hired as an assistant to Rip, and became head coach here. The only two division 1-A jobs he got were because the head coach left and he was their cheapest option.
Cheaper option, lol. And who pray tell made that choice? Not the coach now or anyone gone before him. The decision to do things on the cheap and just get by as best possible lies at the feet of leadership. This is almost the first post where you come close to the dirty truth. The problem is that the lack of money dictates these kinds of decisions.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Aside from Dak10, who has become another target for the "Brand Standard" folks, there is an increasing number of posters who are questioning TW's abilities. The balance is shifting.
How would he know the balance is shifting? He has an increasing number of people that disagree with him on "Ignore".
Or, at least, he claims he does.
Strat57 Wrote:Cheaper option, lol. And who pray tell made that choice? Not the coach now or anyone gone before him. The decision to do things on the cheap and just get by as best possible lies at the feet of leadership. This is almost the first post where you come close to the dirty truth. The problem is that the lack of money dictates these kinds of decisions.
I have never disputed that the administration has done things on the cheap. There's no question at all about that. I've never disputed that we need an on-campus stadium (check my sig). I've never disputed that we need to raise additional funds for the football program for upgrades to weight rooms, practice facilities, locker rooms, etc.
I have only disputed that TW is the right man for the job. He wasn't our first choice for coach.
Did you not notice that Clemson quit being the dominant program in the 80s, not the 90s. The add to that fact that FSU joined the ACC in 93 and didn't lose a confrence championship the rest of the decade and your point about how bad a coach Tommy was at Clemson is overstated at best and just plain crazy at worst.
Add to the fact that Bowden was able to take his recruits and post his second best record as coach says that Coach West was at least able to recruit at Clemson.
Once again, you talk about how he isn't the correct coach for Memphis, but my (and must of "our") counter-point is that we have no way of knowing. We don't have facilities, commitment or money so how could we have any way of knowing if ANY coach could have true levels of success.
And yes, you are proving my point that saying that Vandy, Northwestern, Duke and Baylor do not have success in football despite money. They DO NOT TRY to have a good football team. In the case of Duke, give them 4 or 5 years, since they are actually making an effort and see where they are. Until then, they are the shining examples of what you SHOULD expect at Memphis. A school that doesn't WANT to have a winning football team, usually WON'T!
tigernole79 Wrote:Did you not notice that Clemson quit being the dominant program in the 80s, not the 90s. The add to that fact that FSU joined the ACC in 93 and didn't lose a confrence championship the rest of the decade and your point about how bad a coach Tommy was at Clemson is overstated at best and just plain crazy at worst.
Add to the fact that Bowden was able to take his recruits and post his second best record as coach says that Coach West was at least able to recruit at Clemson.
Clemson stopped being a dominant program after West was hired. FSU had nothing to do with it. That was only one game on the schedule. TW barely managed to win 52% of his games at Clemson, compared to the 70-80% winning percentages of the previous three coaches.
Bowden went 22-14 his first three years with TW's recruits.
Bowden went 25-13 the last three years with his own recruits.
Bowden is a better coach than TW.
I agree that Bowden is probably a better coach.
But if Bowden is such a great coach, how has he not won the ACC yet!?! Has he not been there 6 years and yet his team has not played for the ACC title. Wouldn't that constitute an absolute bust of a head coach. He's never led his team to a BcS bowl... he even plays in a BcS league, never won his division, what a loser!
How many league titles did Clemson in the 80s and early 90s. You can say that they quit being a dominant program because of West, but I can say that Jessica Alba isn't my girlfriend because she lives too far away. Doesn't make it true.
tigernole79 Wrote:I agree that Bowden is probably a better coach.
But if Bowden is such a great coach, how has he not won the ACC yet!?! Has he not been there 6 years and yet his team has not played for the ACC title. Wouldn't that constitute an absolute bust of a head coach. He's never led his team to a BcS bowl... he even plays in a BcS league, never won his division, what a loser!
How many league titles did Clemson in the 80s and early 90s. You can say that they quit being a dominant program because of West, but I can say that Jessica Alba isn't my girlfriend because she lives too far away. Doesn't make it true.
Clemson dropped from winning 70% of their games with Hatfield to 52% of their games with TW. After he left, they increased their winning percentage to 62% with Bowden. TW was the weakest link.
And there are no other factors the determine Clemson's winning percentage.
But once again, Bowden must be a horrible coach. 10% less wins than the teams of the 80s and no titles under his belt. I am sure that he is on the hot seat and has everybody lining up to fire him. Maybe you should go over to their boards and talk about how lousy a coach they have and see if support will begin to swell for your theories.
tigernole79 Wrote:And there are no other factors the determine Clemson's winning percentage.
But once again, Bowden must be a horrible coach. 10% less wins than the teams of the 80s and no titles under his belt. I am sure that he is on the hot seat and has everybody lining up to fire him. Maybe you should go over to their boards and talk about how lousy a coach they have and see if support will begin to swell for your theories.
Bowden took Clemson to eight bowls in his nine years at Clemson, and would've gone to one more but they declined one as a self-imposed punishment for a fight with South Carolina.
Granted, he hasn't had the success of Hatfield, Ford, and Pell but he was a major improvement over TW. I'd take a coach who could win 62% of his games over TW, who is below 50% for his career.
Hey, I like TW also but you have to admit we have sucked the last two years.
I admit 2006 was very bad, but after what we went through in '07 there is no way I say we sucked. I have been through too many seasons and watched way too much bad football to say the team we had last year sucked.
What I don't get toGC is how you have this standard that in one less year Bowden hasn't sniffed the division title or their major bowl, but is qualified as a good coach when you say that Coach West should be fired. There is no way that Memphis is anywhere near the tradition, support or facilities of Clemson, yet you have Memphis in a higher standard than them. You are either uninformed (which I don't think is the case at least not totally), biased (possibly) or just a hypocrite. Which is it!?!
tigernole79 Wrote:I admit 2006 was very bad, but after what we went through in '07 there is no way I say we sucked. I have been through too many seasons and watched way too much bad football to say the team we had last year sucked.
What I don't get toGC is how you have this standard that in one less year Bowden hasn't sniffed the division title or their major bowl, but is qualified as a good coach when you say that Coach West should be fired. There is no way that Memphis is anywhere near the tradition, support or facilities of Clemson, yet you have Memphis in a higher standard than them. You are either uninformed (which I don't think is the case at least not totally), biased (possibly) or just a hypocrite. Which is it!?!
No, I never said that.
TW has a career record winning percentage below 50%. He's lost more than he's won. Overall and at the University of Memphis. If you lose more than you win for your entire career, that's not a successful career.
Bowden won 62% of his games at Clemson. That's a lot better than just under 50%. Bowden also had a perfect season when he was coach at Tulane, before C-USA existed. They haven't exactly been pumping money into their football program either.
So you have never said anything along the lines of since he has been here the longest of any C-USA coach and since he hasn't ever won the East or a title, that is why he should be replaced.
Well, if that isn't one of your reasons, then what exactly are.
Let's see you have talked about declining ticket sales, while up until last year season tickets have reached an all-time high. You talk about how he doesn't have a winning record, but since I can name all the coaches that have had a winning record at Memphis on one hand and the ones that have done in in the last 50 years on fingers, I don't see either of those points.
He isn't vocal about getting the necessary improvements to this team, well his latest interview points to the opposite of that, so what exactly are your reasons?
tigernole79 Wrote:So you have never said anything along the lines of since he has been here the longest of any C-USA coach and since he hasn't ever won the East or a title, that is why he should be replaced.
Well, if that isn't one of your reasons, then what exactly are.
Let's see you have talked about declining ticket sales, while up until last year season tickets have reached an all-time high. You talk about how he doesn't have a winning record, but since I can name all the coaches that have had a winning record at Memphis on one hand and the ones that have done in in the last 50 years on fingers, I don't see either of those points.
He isn't vocal about getting the necessary improvements to this team, well his latest interview points to the opposite of that, so what exactly are your reasons?
No, I said if he can't win the division title this year he should be replaced. All he has to do is "win our side." Last year was our best conference finish ever, but ECU and UCF both were in our way.
Ticket sales have declined for three consecutive years. Tiger football usually loses money, and will lose even more if that trend continues. It was one of the "public" justifications for releasing Stobart (yes, I know there were other reasons).
Coach West does have a losing record. In fact, he is NINTH in winning percentage for all Tiger football coaches.
I listened to the interview on Sports 56 where TW mentioned the study he did. He came to the conclusion that "you get out of it what you put into it" and stated that we needed to invest in facilities. There's no scoop there, because it's something everyone else has known for years. He didn't seem to be particularly vocal about going after it, though. If he does have a guaranteed four year contract with an insurmountable buyout clause, he should be DEMANDING more support and plans for facilities upgrades. I know that's probably not his style, but his laid back attitude is hurting him. If he showed the fire in his belly about increased investment in the program as he did when he went after Jackie Sherrill, then we'd ALREADY have it done.
That's the Tommy West we need.
RandyMc Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:Aside from Dak10, who has become another target for the "Brand Standard" folks, there is an increasing number of posters who are questioning TW's abilities. The balance is shifting.
How would he know the balance is shifting? He has an increasing number of people that disagree with him on "Ignore".
Or, at least, he claims he does.
The only thing shifting is the quicksand that some stand on, lol.