NCAAbbs

Here's a post from a friend of mine:

Quote:I know we have our own dedicated thread for this, but we've reached a major turning-point in the development of the building.

I'm proud to report that it's happening, and it's happening now.

Today, as promised, I was the first one to put a deposit down on a condo in the building with Ingram Associates. I reserved a 1,465 square foot, two bedroom unit on the 24th floor. I've always thought that if you truly believe in something, when push comes to shove, you either "put up or shut up."

The building will be more luxurious than anything ever seen in Birmingham. Units will sell at $200+ per square foot plus a $5,000 increase per floor. Materials used will be the finest available and the building is going to be restored to its original state (with special consideration to the lobby and mezzanine area). The lobby and mezzanine will house retail and restaraunts similar to the famed Guardian Building in Detroit.



Work has already started on the building and everything is intact.

The biggest surprise is night lighting -- the building WILL be bathed in a white spotlight and both "CITY FEDERAL" signs will be fully repaired and illuminated at night. In the coming weeks, there will be a special ceremony (which everyone in the city will be invited to attend) to relight the entire building.

I'm now working with the developer and Ingram for promoting the building and we're planning an open house party to showcase the property (everyone is invited to this as well -- details will be available in the coming weeks).

Today, I've never felt more proud to be a resident of Birmingham. We're on our way.

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The lighting on the building that he's speaking of sounds pretty awesome. Almost like a new addition to the skyline. Well... actually, it is an addition to the NIGHT skyline anyway. Great news for Birmingham.

Good for him. I like the idea of retail shops and restaurants.

Hopefully downtown Bham will actually get some real nightlife downtown to help attract more people to pay those kinds of prices. I still don't see how they can justify those prices right now but if people are willing to pay for them then why not charge them?

Is there going to be a tax-abatement on that property? If so, how much and for how long will the abatement last?

The prices are not firm yet, but those were there approximate estimates. The market is getting there in Birmingham actually. About a decade ago, there were probably less than 100 lofts or condos in the central downtown area. Today, there are over 500 currently in existence and the construction of about 1,000 more has been approved, so the market for them is really getting hot. It's not where other cities are yet, but it's come a LONG way in the past decade or decade and a half. As far as the tax-abatement, I'm not sure... I'll ask though.

It's interesting that the condo/loft numbers have increased so without any other development downtown (restaurants, bars, stores, etc.).

It seems a little unusual, but they should take advantage of it while it lasts.

LJBlazerFan Wrote:It's interesting that the condo/loft numbers have increased so without any other development downtown (restaurants, bars, stores, etc.).

It seems a little unusual, but they should take advantage of it while it lasts.

Well... many of these loft developments have retail components on the lower level anyway (cafes and boutiques). Some of the development has probably also come with the anticipation of the Railroad Reservation Park which will have a significant retail component and will be HUGE for revitalizing the midtown area and effectively linking the northside and the southside together.

STL, here was my friends response about the tax-abatement:

Quote:no, no historical tax credits are being used since the building is being converted directly to condo. Most tax credits used here have required that the property remain rental for five years before being able to be sold as condominiums.

Glad to hear it. Old enough to remember when downtown was a true graveyard. I agree that it's got a long way to go, but definitely pointed in the right direction.

Having a "long way to go" is an understatement - but at least someone is trying.

So with the City Federal Building added to the list, here is a list of residential units for the central city of Birmingham.

Under construction or approved:

1) Park Place- 637 units
2) UAB Residence Hall- 192 units
3) Bristol Southside- 170 units
4) Railroad Reservation Lofts- 120 units
5) City Federal- 100 units
6) Phoenix Building- 74 units
7) Stonewall Building- 48 units
8) Athens Building- 41 units
9) Gallery Lofts- 32 units
10) Blachs Building- 15 units
11) Pullman Flats- 14 units
12) Seaboard Yard- 12 units

Recently completed:

1) Watts Tower- 59 units
2) Jemison Flats- 57 units
3) Avondale Gardens- 46 units
4) Custom Photo- 25 units
5) A.C. Legg- 17 units

-------------------------------------
TOTAL: 1,659 units


*Obviously this doesnt include any of the developments in Highland Park. There may be some other approved projects that I'm unaware of.

Also just posted by someone who works with an architectural firm in Birmingham...

Quote:The Cabana is going to be redeveloped. We can expect to see an announcement within the next few weeks.

I think it's ridiculous that there won't be tax credits given to buyers of those condos.

A study just came out and showed that the state of Missouri (mainly in St. Louis) has had over $350 million in tax credits in the past year, the most in the United States, for the redevelopment of old buildings. This has led to a resurgence of the downtown area in STL and other areas around the city (the growth here is UNREAL).

One problem I have with the prices in Birmingham is that they are creating a real-estate price bubble. The prices are starting off too high and it doesn't leave a lot of room for appreciation. Despite the demand, living in downtown Birmingham is not worth paying those prices and not getting a property tax abatement.

They can say the prices are in anticpation of the railroad preservation but come on, how long are people going to talk about doing these big things? My Lord, since I first heard of this "downtown resurgence" that involves a dome and the railroad park I finished college, served 9 months on active duty for Operation Enduring Freedom, moved to St. Louis, have worked full-time for two years, watched UAB make it to it's first bowl game, etc, etc, etc, etc and NOTHING has been accomplished downtown.

If Birmingham wants to be taken seriously it needs to lose it's small-town mindset and move forward with these plans they have, many of which are very good. Other cities are already finishing what Birmingham says they "plan" to do.

The downtown housing market can either create a good situation for Birmingham or a very bad one. In order for it to create a good one, Birmingham MUST do something to the surrounding areas to justify the prices that are being asked for the units.

85, where are you gettting these "posts"?

Is there a local message board that talks about developing Birmingham?

Thanks!

BlazerNut Wrote:85, where are you gettting these "posts"?

Is there a local message board that talks about developing Birmingham?

Thanks!

It's not local, but there are several forums that discuss development in southeastern cities... just have to weed out the trash :D

A couple of the ones to keep an eye on:

http://www.al.com - though I wouldnt recommend it
http://www.skyscrapercity.com - great source of info, but has gone down a little
http://www.urbanplanet.org - pretty good, but not as active

Blazer85 Wrote:Bloomberg Columnists

E-Mail This Story Printer-Friendly Format

Andrew Ferguson is a columnist for Bloomberg News. The opinions expressed are his own.

Sprawl and `Slurbs' Are the Wave of the Future: Andrew Ferguson
April 26 (Bloomberg) -- When author and historian Joel Kotkin travels around the U.S. in his role as a consultant to city planners, he hears his clients repeat the same misconceptions again and again. He calls them urban legends.

``The one you hear most often is, `Cities are on the rebound! People are moving back to the cities!''' he says. ``It takes different forms. The latest one I'm hearing is: `Empty nesters are flocking back to the cities!'''

There's a problem with legends, of course. They're not true. And so it is with the urban legends Kotkin keeps hearing.

Consider those empty nesters -- parents whose children have grown up and moved out. No matter how much civic boosters may wish it to be true, this affluent and highly desirable demographic is not returning to live in U.S. downtowns.

``If anything, the data show just the opposite,'' Kotkin says. ``If empty nesters decide to sell the family house in the suburbs, they move to a condo -- in the suburbs. Or they move to the Sun Belt -- to a suburb.''

The same goes for one urban legend after another, those little fairy tales that urban planners tell to convince themselves that cities are making a comeback.

Urbs versus Burbs

Is it true, for example, that gentrification is inspiring companies to put their headquarters in cities?

Is it true that cities can cultivate a vibrant and viable civic culture without middle-class families?

Is it true that most companies require an urban setting to do business in?

The answers, says Kotkin, are: No, no, and probably not.

An urban setting, he concedes, just might help you do business, depending on what business you're in.

``I suppose some kind of companies need to be in a city,'' he says. ``Bail bondsmen need to be near the courthouse. But that's about it.''

You can understand why city managers, urban planners and ``metropolitan elites'' repeat the urban legends, mostly to one another. They're deflecting an uncomfortable truth.

And the truth is that in the great struggle between cities and suburbs, raging now for a century or more, the verdict is finally in: Cities lost. The vast majority of people prefer the ``burbs.'' The long-predicted comeback of the traditional city isn't in the cards.

`Dream World'

For those of us who love cities, it's hard to believe that the future of civilized life lies in the suburbs. You call that civilized?

``Metropolitan elites live in a dream world,'' Kotkin says. ``If 1,000 people move into lower downtown Denver in the last year, the elites think it's a trend: stories in the newspaper, panel discussions, general celebration. Meanwhile, 10,000 people leave the city for the suburbs, and the elites ignore it.''

Traditional U.S. cities stopped growing 50 years ago and are now shrinking. Since 1950, almost all the growth in U.S. metropolitan areas has been beyond the city limits, in suburbs -- sprawl, in a word.

And the trend seems to be accelerating. Census data released earlier this month show that during the 1990s, one city after another lost population, even as the counties surrounding them grew. In Ohio, for example, Cincinnati's Hamilton County shrunk by 2.4 percent. Neighboring Boone County, in Kentucky, grew 49.3 percent. Even further out from the city, Grant County, Kentucky, grew by 42.2 percent.

From Washington to Cleveland to Denver, the trend was the same.

Hip and Cool

There are lots of obvious reasons for the cities' decline -- the decentralizing effects of telecommunications, the loss of manufacturing jobs, the inconveniences of public transit -- but Kotkin is more appalled by the steps urban planners take in hopes of reversing the decline.

``They think they can revive their cities if they make them `hip and cool,''' he says, referring to the street festivals, cafes, arts fairs, high-end boutiques and other yuppie delights that attract the young and single, the childless and rich.

``But that's not how cities last,'' he says. ``You can't build a long-term civic culture around transient populations.''

What any healthy city requires is a stable base of middle- class families. But the conditions necessary for attracting and keeping families are precisely what city planners ignore.

``They've forgotten the basics,'' Kotkin says. ``Are the schools good? Are the streets clean and safe? It's a lot easier to satisfy the yuppies with no kids than to fix the schools.''

And so city life, once the backbone of civilized social arrangements, devolves into just another ``niche lifestyle.''

Mixed Evidence

But can suburbs perform the essential functions of acculturation and community-building that cities once did? It's a question Kotkin explores in his latest book, ``The City: A Global History,'' and he says the evidence for now is mixed.

Kotkin calls most of suburbia ``slurbs,'' vast stretches of undistinguished space choked with traffic and lined with commercial strips lacking character, charm, or -- most important of all -- a sense of civic identity that can bind their residents together.

On the other hand, some suburbs now reflect the influence of the new urbanists, planners who favor suburbs with walkable downtowns, open space and accessible cultural institutions.

`Not in the Cities'

Even so, for many of us, the suburbs will require a lot of getting used to. What's to happen to those ``hip and cool'' city- lovers who, over the next generation, may be pulled to the suburbs by professional necessity, as the social and economic center of gravity continues to shift?

At Southern California Institute of Architecture where Kotkin teaches, he says, ``I hear my students talk about all the great projects they're going to do in cities after they graduate. And I have to tell them: Wait a minute. You're architects and designers and urban planners. Where do you think you're going to be working in the 21st century? Sorry, but it's not in the cities.''

He says they look at him, disbelieving and horrified. They have seen the future. And it's the suburbs.

As for Kotkin, he was born in New York City and now lives in a suburb of Los Angeles.

I understand there being a demand for a hundred or so new loft condo's downtown, but several hundred. I wonder how many young people without kids have the means to afford a $200k+ condo. I personally think the empty nesters are heading to the coast, espcially with it being so close to birmingham. There is going to be a bust, no way there is demand for that many units.

When the bust happens (if it does) then the people that did buy units will get hurt the most when the value of their property drops, especially when the prices are as inflated as they are right now in Bham.

ZLC,

The writer of that article is a complete idiot and almost every point he made in his article could be disputed with facts. I may get into it later, but it's too early for me to get riled up.

Blazer85 Wrote:

BlazerNut Wrote:85, where are you gettting these "posts"?

Is there a local message board that talks about developing Birmingham?

Thanks!

It's not local, but there are several forums that discuss development in southeastern cities... just have to weed out the trash :D

A couple of the ones to keep an eye on:

http://www.al.com - though I wouldnt recommend it
http://www.skyscrapercity.com - great source of info, but has gone down a little
http://www.urbanplanet.org - pretty good, but not as active

I've also seen B'ham related development stories on:

http://www.plantizen.com
http://www.cyburbia.org

Sarahbelle18 Wrote:ZLC,

The writer of that article is a complete idiot and almost every point he made in his article could be disputed with facts. I may get into it later, but it's too early for me to get riled up.

Noted