NCAAbbs

.....this may not necessarily change your mind, but this is a very good thing for ETSU and this region, not to mention helping in a small way to foster increased international understanding and friendship:


Olya

How can anyone be opposed to this

It's that sort of thing that really makes me hold Coach Steve Brooks in the highest regard.

I think most of the people that claim to be opposed to foreign scholarship athletes are actually opposed to the idea of almost the entire team being made up of foreign athletes especially when you claim to be a regional university.

I personally think you find the best athletes that are willing to come to your school even if that means foreign players. There will always be a debate about who the best athletes are. Football and basketball probably has to be a little sensitive to the hometown/region for marketing/donation reasons but nobody watches tennis anyway so you might as well win some games.

Congrats to Ms. Batsula

Wow..

The stands (such as they are) were more than full for the ASun championships, with lots and lots more standing around the fence - and that was for both the men's and women's. In fact, I think it is true that there were more people there for the women's tennis championships than for a women's basketball game - perhaps double, even.

That's right. If you're the coach of whatever team, you are supposed to do your job the best that you can, and at the college level, a lot of that job is to win. If you're competing against other teams that are trying to get the best players, you do what you can, within the rules, to compete and win, while still upholding academic standards. I've been making that point for years, and the ETSU tennis teams have done a fantastic job of that for decades.

To fill the stands of the tennis facility there would be 100 fans on hand.

That doesn't impress me.

That's a mighty quick reply there.....

Not trying to impress anyone - just reporting, and making the point that if "...nobody watches tennis anyway....", then less than "nobody" watches women's basketball.
To get a bit more specific, since the tennis tournament went on for several hours, I'd venture a guess that probably 200-300 people were there for at least part of the match, with a peak crowd of about 125-150. Remember, there were probably nearly as many standing outside the fences as on the bleachers.
Also, the day before, there were at least as many, probably more, since the women were also playing.

I am in no way suggesting that tennis will ever become as spectator-popular as the "major" sports. [And in case you were wondering, that is a correct use of a hyphen, just for you.]

Now, I have always said that I would hope any college in this country would be receptive to accepting students from wherever.

However, the problem with the heavy influx of foreign athletes are as follows-

A- Other sports have not been able to recruit overseas. Ed DeChellis wanted to get some players from Europe and was turned down.

Football wasn't even able to recruit Florida at the end.

When you can get a team FULLY LOADED with foreign born players, but you can't get your football team to recruit Florida and it eventually has to go, then something is wrong.

B- If you are going to go this route, then you'd better win. And NOT JUST THE A-SUN.

Which golf didn't do.

When Clemson won the NCAA Golf Title four years ago, the Tigers were comprised totally of South Carolinians.

In 2007, ETSU lost the Bank of Tennessee Tournament by a stroke to the Vols when a native Tennesseean, Phil Pettite, hit the final putt in for a birdie.

Less time on England, more time in Tennessee and the Bucs win the tourney.

This season ETSU finished No. 23 in the country. Chattanooga, by comparison, had four native-Tennesseeans on their roster, including their best player, Jefferson City's Jonathan Hodge. The Mocs finished 12th in the nation.

Hodge's season scoring average was the equal of Gareth Shaw.

Tennessee finished 10th in the country. They had five Tennessee natives on their roster.

ETSU did not win a tournament last year.

The fact is ETSU puts all their eggs in the golf basket and they get no return.

I am convinced it is because Fred Warren has manipulated the athletic department to serve himself. Mullins could have done a great thing if he allowed Warren to leave instead of giving him a 10-year contract to continue to underachieve while letting local golfers go off to other state schools and beat the Bucs.

In the NCAA victory against Notre Dame, the ETSU men had a dual match against a team featuring Nashville's Tyler Davis.

Davis, a freshman, was the only Tennesseean on the two teams.

The Bucs did not beat him. Their team could only play Davis' team to a 7-7 unfinished match.

Looking at National Champion Texas, half of their players come from the Lone Star State. Their No. 2 player is from Colorado. And two of the players are from Mexico, which I think in the case of Texas does qualify for something of a local player.

So your saying that the fact that a Catholic kid from Nashville with really really good grades decided to go to Notre Dame and play tennis
reflects badly on ETSU's recruiting practices? Your proof being that he plays on Notre Dames #3 doubles team and thats teams match againist ETSU's #3 team was tied when it was called off because ETSU had already clinched the win? Okay..

R

It's great that you're helping this board continue to raise it's tennis IQ. Please continue..........

However.................Georgia beat Texas to win the team title, becoming the first repeat winner since Stanford 10 years ago. (Don't know how you could get that wrong.)
Also, I assume by "dual match", you mean "doubles". And by "featuring", I assume you mean "including". Since Davis didn't even make the singles lineup, I think using "featuring" is a tad, shall we say, overstated?
I know, you always have a bit of trouble with this "facts" stuff - but keep trying, being a reporter is tough, we know..........

By the way, the #1 player for Georgia, Travis Helgeson, has a brother, Brett, who was on the Notre Dame team, and narrowly beat Enrique Olivares at #1 singles in that match.
Also, J.P. Smith of UT (TN, not TX), who beat Olivares in the round of 16 in the singles tournament, made it all the way to the finals before losing to that real hoss Somdev Devvarman of Chennai, India.

The way I got that wrong is that nobody cares about tennis, as your "capacity crowd" of 100 people proves.

Why wouldn't a kid, religion aside, want to go to a school that makes his sport a priority, instead of one where it's going to be way down on the totem pole?

Perhaps because said "tennis priority" school isn't even looking in Tennessee for players?

Are you serious?? Blaming "nobody cares about tennis" for such an obvious mistake? And you expect us (or at least newbies) to swallow your other "excuses" for misrepresenting (to be nice) the truth. Like I wrote earlier, dude, grow up. Act like a man and take some responsibility when you're wrong about things.

By the way, I don't know how far Texas went. Misread the bracket, which the NCAA holds in such high regard that they don't print the results themselves, but instead give it to TULSA to post-

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-...acket.html

So I read Texas first on the line.

Point is, the No. 1, the No. 2 team in the country has an American influence.

However, I'm glad you corrected me.

National Champion Georgia is made up 2/3 of Americans.

ALL THREE of their top players, on the national championship team, are from America.

Thank you, therefore, for proving my point and CONTINUING to put your foot in your mouth.

Now, to address the tennis aspect of your last post, thank you again for at least attempting to raise the tennis IQ of this board, but you've got a long way to go.....

Don't you think Mullins and/or Zaatini wouldn't have loved to have gotten the Rogers kid from Kingsport to come here? Instead, he decided to go down and walk on at UT. And on the women's side, we *have* gotten Tara Byrne from Johnson City and Tara Sheets from Gate City to join on.
Come on man, Science Hill has won back-to-back state titles in boys tennis. Kingsport won before that. Science Hill won a couple others times not long before that. I think the Big 9 Conference has won like 7 out of the last 10 state titles in boys (just an estimate). And yet......most of their players play for teams like Milligan (nothing wrong with that). (In fact, the top two players from Dobyns-Bennett just signed with Milligan.) You just don't realize how hard it is to get top-ranked juniors to go to a place like ETSU. However, with this success, it could get easier (just like any sport).

Goodness gracious. Did you even read my post?

And you say I put *my* foot in *my* mouth?????
I think you just may have gone over the edge, dude.........

Addenda: for those who haven't thought this through, Texas and Georgia, who do have many U.S. players, also are what are known as "warm weather" states, compared to East Tennessee. Florida, California, and to a lesser extent, TX, GA, AZ and SC produce more top level tennis players per capita because they have more playable tennis days than other states. Some northern states, knowing there is a dearth of available weather for tennis, build lots more indoor tennis facilities, as they have in OH, MI, NY, etc. TN is sort of an "in between" state in that regard.

Furthermore, if you are a high school senior, where sounds more appealing to go to college, Austin and Athens, or Johnson City?

Notre Dame was ranked 26th going into that match ETSU 41st so Notre Dame must like tennis a little. Besides yeah the kid is from Tennessee but isn't like he was a local.

OK, you've got me there.

Georgia didn't play in the finals?

And you say I put my foot in my mouth?

The fact ETSU can't get local kids to play on their tennis team shows-

A- Either ETSU isn't trying to get them.

B- The athletic reputation of ETSU is so poor- due to a variety of factors but including the decision to drop football and the ensuing chaos that ensued- that local tennis players will not consider ETSU.

Either way, it speaks of needing to make major changes at ETSU, among them deemphasizing tennis and golf (interesting how your defense of the recruiting practices at ETSU is to ignore those points and to merely say YOU MISIDENTIFIED THE NATIONAL CHAMPION! And DID I misidentify the national champion? I don't know or care).

As far as the pretty tennis player, ETSU didn't finish in the Top 75 ranking.

I like Anna Kournikova too.

But I'm betting on whoever it was who won Wimbledon (I don't know- and nobody else but our friend who is rapidly becoming a mouthpiece for his tennis buddy Mullins does either).

Well the pretty tennis player also is a pretty good tennis player.

Batsula compiled a 22-11 overall record, was 15-6 in dual play, and 11-0 in conference play in her senior season. The Belarus native ended her career with 179 victories and is third on the ETSU all-time wins list. Batsula was ranked nationally throughout her career at ETSU and helped the Bucs reach the A-Sun finals this past year.

The girl who went the NCAA singles tournament is also attractive and a good player.


http://www.etsubucs.com/sports/wtennis/r...E_ID=10699

Pitt I am not a tennis fan and even I know Venus Williams won Wimbledon last year and I would bet most on this board did as well.

I really don't know why this is so hard for you.......

This is what you said:

This is how I corrected you:

You thanked me for correcting you. (You're welcome - although for the absurd number of times I've done so over the years I would think I'd have read that from you more often - but that's ok......)

Then, you said this:

.....just shortly after I corrected you (see above).

Then you blamed the NCAA for your mistake. Then you somehow claim that I put *my* foot in *my* mouth?!?!?

Now, you follow that up with:

What are you missing?!?!? I clearly stated, quoted above, yesterday (June 5), at 12:55 PM, that "Georgia beat Texas to win the team title....".
So yes, Georgia played in the finals. They won. They beat Texas. In the finals. I believe the score was 4-2 (that's from memory, though). Yes, in the finals. Georgia. They beat Texas - who beat Ohio St. - who beat ETSU - who beat Notre Dame. So, in conclusion, I think we can say that, YES, Georgia was in the finals. And YES, the beat Texas in those finals.
Hope that helps............

And you'd rather have this than a national ranking and the current athletic philosophy in the administration?

TennisMan, TennisMan, TennisMan-

Do you not understand the point of "I don't know how far Texas went?"

It means NOBODY CARES!!!!!!

Just as NOBODY CARES about ETSU tennis, as the "capacity crowd" of 100 people indicated.

So why afford that program (or golf) opportunities other more popular ones do not receive for end results that are ultimately detrimental to the rest of the athletic department?

Facts are facts. One can argue or debate philosophy all one wants, and that's fine and good; just don't try to change history as you so often attempt. It's unbecoming, and as I've said repeatedly, it diminishes what credibility you could otherwise have been entitled to.

There's no way to prove you're either right or wrong, but I'd take that wager.

This should be rich.

How have I been changing history?

And you're all of the sudden worried about being unbecoming?

You've been unbecoming since your first day on here.

atcually the bleachers on the middle courts hold 108 people, the bleachers on either side hold 62, there were an average of 20 people on the far side and 25 people at any time waiting to get in. that adds up to around 200 people at any time during the 4.5 hours the Bucs were playing (and that was just on Sunday). I noticed the A-Sun had to hire the basketball security for crowd control. There were over 50 people who followed the Lady Bucs to Bristol to watch their semi-final match Saturday night 7-9pm. overall that is good fan support for "a sport no one cares about" - right Pitt? I notice most of those Bucfan's at basketball games as well.

Ah, but ETSU DOES have an indoor facility. It is called Memorial Center, remember?

In fact, if the demand to watch tennis was so great, then the A-Sun Championships would be held inside this facility.

But, with crowds of just 200 at best, why bother?

It also refutes the idea that ETSU is this "tweener" school. They indeed have the facilities that can provide for training throughout the year.

So, again, why are local players going to other schools? If Rogers from Kingsport is going to walk-on at Tennessee rather than play here, we can only assume-

A- The coaches did not offer him

B- The coaches are poor recruiters

C- The reputation of ETSU athletics is so poor that they must overspend to recuit players from overseas since no Americans- from the area or otherwise- will touch ETSU.

And the reason for the poor reputation is tied into the fact they'd rather spend money recruiting players that don't even fit in line with the University mission of being a regional school than boosting higher profile sports (football, basketball and baseball) and letting the less popular sports' success enjoy the fruits of that success, a la Notre Dame and Ohio State.

Thank you for the additional data and corroboration on the attendance, bucfan99.

Pittiful, that you even suggest that the dome be used for an important match shows how tiny your grasp is of things tennis. I think it's abundantly clear (as if............lol) that you're in WAY over your head whenever you (attempt to) discuss this sport.

Let me repeat (yet again):

P.S. -- Georgia beat Texas, in the final. Georgia won. Texas was second. And that was in the final.

And where were you when Georgia beat Texas, my friend?

Were you in Tulsa? Were you in your car listening to the rapid-fire play-by-play on the radio? Were you watching, two fists clenched, in front of the TV?

No? The matches weren't even broadcast on the radio? Were they even broadcast on TV?

So you had to look it up, too.

So quit obsessing about a typo. It's unbecoming of you.

But, why don't you now live up to your self-declaration as the board's answer to Bud Collins and tell us why Memorial Center couldn't be used for tennis matches?

Other than the fact the 200 people who would show up would feel as if they were watching the sport in a tomb.

Because I have seen tons of tennis championships held in much more modest indoor facilities- and to more than 200 fans.

So explain. Don't change the subject to meaningless nonsense.

Why is it unreasonable to hold tennis matches inside Memorial Center when there are numerous courts laid down on the surface?

Other than the fact it would be a tomb because nobody cares about tennis.

Pitt - sometimes you just have to ask and not assume.

on Saturday it rained and I asked the A-Sun commish about using the indoors. seems that the other schools complained about playing ETSU in the Memorial center. they had an official come and deem the indoor surface/lighting not fit for college play. but the A-Sun allowed a non-ETSU match to play in the dome.

I asked the women's coach about recruiting dollars and local talent. he said he offers to American players all the time (spending lots of money traveling to recruit them and calling them on the phone) but they do not accept. reason? due to their level of play they are also choosing from Big 10, SEC, ACC, etc schools. he was mad that a girl he spent lots of time and money on this year decided to go to Wisconsin the day before she signed at ETSU. Her and her family loved ETSU - wanted to be pre-med and later attend med school at ETSU. but she chose the glamor of a BCS school. he says all of his international students were found/recruited over the internet (that is right - no phone calls, no overseas visits, no tax payer dollars). so what is your argument now?

the local talent is not on the level to be on a potentially ranked team or to play the top ranked teams (which both teams do). of the two local players - he said the JC product had around 30 full scholarship offers. she came to ETSU cause he was the first to offer her the scholarship. she was #1 in the state...played #5 on the team as a freshman - moved up to 2/3 as a junior. the other local was #120 in the United States and also played mostly #5 as a freshman. both of these girls NEVER lost a set to any other local players - EVER! they are the best ever to come from the Tri-Cities and they are both at ETSU. must be good recruiting? he hopes that the young players see these two as an inspiration and will improve their skills so they one day can play for ETSU. he says he has a local player walking on next year - she turned down offers from other local colleges. isn't that how it is suppose to work?

Interesting thing also about the original topic, which before our egotistical friend tried in vain to change with insults directed towards me was about why it was a bad idea for ETSU to so heavily invest in foreign athletes for their golf and tennis teams.

I was talking to a Little Birdie today with ETSU athletics ties. The birdie told me that he'd had situations where he would meet the tennis team, but was unable to converse with them because of their inability to grasp english.

Now, I've heard of football factories. But a TENNIS FACTORY?

And what kind of tennis factory finishes 41st in the country?

Answer- an ineffective one.

Now, there was an elitist stereotype put forth by anti-football people that having a football team would only serve to allow "Dexter Manley" type players to attend ETSU- ones that could barely read or write.

Instead, an allegation has been raised by a pretty good source that the EXACT OPPOSITE is true.

So that's another reason why I, and everyone else but the ETSU shills, am opposed to overloading the tennis team with overseas players.

Pittiful, I will not explain to you - you have too much self-absorption and ego to bother to learn from me; you've proved that over and over again. Fortunately for you, bucfan99 came to your rescue with the Cliff Notes version of why the dome can't be used except in emergencies. (The full story is yet another one of ETSU incompetence, which will come as no surprise.)

But I'm obsessing about a typo? Tell me, what/where is it. I missed that. Please, tell me what I missed.

I would disagree that Tara and Tara are the two best to come from this area ever. What about former assistant women's coach Margie (Stanley) Katras from Kingsport? She went on to star in the ACC and turn pro. Also, for Tara Byrne, her father or uncle played at ETSU (golf, I think) and her brother played baseball (rather well, I might add), so ETSU had the inside shot on her. And Amy and Ali Beavers from Kingsport (now playing for Elon and Georgia Southern, respectively) were probably better than Sheets; Ali and Sheets were the Times-News co-players of the year, as I recall, although I don't remember their head-to-head record(s). Ali Beavers was rated a 3-star recruit.

Not to mention Billy Pike from Ellizabethton on the men's side. He's probably the best player of either sex to come out of this area.

And Pittiful, you can again thank bucfaithful99 for the furthering of your tennis education about recruiting the overseas players. For years some posters have bitched about the presumed huge amounts of money to travel overseas to recruit. The truth is that has been almost non-existant. Because of previous S.A. players who attended ETSU (notably George Paris and Pierre Arnold along with Zaatini, among many others), ETSU has had a "pipeline" of word-of-mouth on-the-ground "recruiters" helping build the image of ETSU's tennis program down south.

This could turn out to have been a watershed year for ETSU tennis, winning an NCAA match. We'll see in the future if any regional tennis stars deem ETSU worthy - but bear in mind that very-high-level local talents are few and far between.

Gosh, Pittiful, this is way past getting old. I think all here are aware of the sterling academic credentials/accomplishments of both the men's and women's tennis teams. I try to help you by pointing out how far in over your head you are here, and yet you continue to dig your hole deeper.....

I don't know who this particular "littel birdie" is, but he/she/it didn't try very hard, or is purposely painting a false or colored picture.

You are really, really, really, really embarrassing yourself.

??????? I know reading comprehension is not your forte, but seriously, the original topic, WHICH I STARTED, was about why it is NOT a bad idea for ETSU to have foreign athletes. Do you have to *try* to be so inaccurate, or does it just come natural?

Oh really?

Linked below is the 2007 NCAA Graduation Rate report-

http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/inst2007/198.pdf

If you look at the stats, here's what we've found out-

From 1997-98 to 2000-01, there were nine non-resident alien athletes who enrolled at ETSU. That's the 4-year average stat.

Only three of them graduated- a 33 percentage.

Three of them were men and two of them graduated.

We know for sure the one female non-resident athlete who graduated was not on the basketball team and instead participated in track/cross country.

We also know that non-resident student athletes don't play softball or volleyball there wasn't a women's soccer team back then.

That means from 1997-98 to 2000-01 the women's golf and tennis teams had five non-resident alien players on their teams AND NOT ONE OF THEM GRADUATED!!!!!!!

High academic standards? I think not!

Let's keep going with this, my good man!

It's fun to see you reduced to name-calling and propaganda while I present the true facts.

EXACTLY! You're the one bragging on "I LOOKED IT UP! IT WAS GEORGIA WHO WON THE TENNIS TITLE! GEORGIA! GEORGIA! GEORGIA!"

I have, meanwhile, without a shadow of a doubt, shown the folly of the current ETSU athletic mission to totally overload the tennis and golf teams with foreign players while you try to direct what few readers are left away from that topic and have yet to make one response defending the golf team's recruitment of players.

The current recruitment of players to the ETSU tennis and golf teams is successful neither academically nor athletically, defies the university mission of being a regional institution, and contributes to the ruin of the other sports on campus.

Any questions?

Pitt I have a question - you are very good at supplying facts to defend your view. please give us the graduation/academic report of the tennis teams since Zaatini and Brooks took over (2002-2003) and since Shelton took over women's golf (2003). when you defend with "true facts" can you use current ones and not cherry pick to promote your view.

the reason this entire discussion started was due to posterformerlyknowasthedoctor showing his ETSU Pride for a women's tennis player receiving a national award for sportsmanship and leadership. did you read that she graduated in 3.5 years, Magna Cum Laude among other things? (you can scroll up to the top and click on Olya to read it)

this years academic information - http://www.etsubucs.com/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=10772

this seems to go against your argument the tennis and golf teams are poor academically and hurt the credibility of this instution. all four teams are above 3.0 GPA's. 8 of the 15 student athletes with 4.0 GPA's are from men's golf (2), women's golf (2) and women's tennis (4)

and yes I forgot about Margie (Brown) Katras - the best ever to come from the Tri-Cities. I hear she can still beat some of the girls on the team.

99- That information hasn't been released yet.

However, neither has been the reported fall from grace academically for the men's tennis team.

Going by that press release dated June 2nd 2008 seems like they have been doing just fine in the classroom. Not sure what the fall from grace is but I noticed the team still has a +3.0 GPA so it wasn't to bad a fall.

R

And what team was that, Rod?

Now, let me get this straight. You're believing ETSU PRESS RELEASES instead of NCAA statistics?

Were those the same ETSU press releases that three weeks ago mentioned Stetson had beaten ETSU in baseball, but conveniently forgot to mention the defeat mathematically eliminated ETSU from the A-Sun tournament race (or pennant race, if you prefer)?

See, that's the thing I don't get about you two. You claim to be upset at the ways things are going at ETSU.

But I point out FACTUAL STATISTICS and what do you two do?

Attempt to shoot the messenger with propaganda from ETSU.

Oh, you both miss, but still, it's like you're the last line of defense for the ETSU administration.

ETSU lost to Stetson, right? how was that not a factual story?
ETSU says the mens tennis has a GPA over 3.0. please post your
NCAA stats that show otherwise. If not then shut up.

R

You don't see the disingenuousness of not telling the WHOLE story in a press release?

Just like it is disingenuous to dismiss the fact NONE of the non-resident alien female athletes graduated during a four-year period.

In fact, having a 3.0 GPA tells me very little. They could be taking Basket Weaving 101 or logging in online or having their lessons translated.

Here's the bottom line.

For the last five years- when it comes to ETSU sports- I've been right- they've been wrong.

That's the prevailing sentiment in the community, in fact.

So get over your personal antimosity to me, realize what comes out of ETSU is going to have spin on it, and quit defending the practices that have ruined the athletic department.

its not like ETSU was trying to hid something lets look at the press release prior to the Stetson series.

Pitt,

You're talking about stats from the turn of the millenium. Fact is the academics for ETSU athletics are strong right now overall, and out of this world (or out of this country) for sports like men's and women's tennis.

The release from just last week is rather straight forward. The grades are good and student-athletes continue to graduate at a rate much higher than the overall student body.

Let me be clear, you are NOT right on this one.