Am I the only one that feels that tommy's job really depends on next years results, i think the admin is really putting pressure on him to win because R.C. wants to get into the big east and we need football to do a little better to get both in.
mewes Wrote:Am I the only one that feels that tommy's job really depends on next years results, i think the admin is really putting pressure on him to win because R.C. wants to get into the big east and we need football to do a little better to get both in.
rofl It should, but it won't. Most people would take a bullet for TW. He has taken our program to new heights. Our talent is worse than it was, but we sure are going to a bunch of mediocre bowls!
See, I told you so. Most people around here are somehow as blind and narrow minded as the poster above me.
I don't know about pressure from the admin, but I agree, we need football to do better this year. Like not losing to sun belt teams. I think it will all come down to how Hall plays at QB. If he does well then we should have a nice year b/c the defense has to improve from it was last year, which was down right horrible.
Dak10 Wrote:See, I told you so. Most people around here are somehow as blind and narrow minded as the poster above me.
You're right on. Tommy has ridden DeAngelo's coattails and benefitted from being the first Memphis coach to be in a conference with a bunch of bowl affiliations. Those 3 6-5 seasons Stobart had, he probably would've won C-USA or at least been close and had like a 9-2 or 8-3 record
It would take a pretty bad season to do him in, but it could happen.
One more loss to ASU should do it.
mewes Wrote:Am I the only one that feels that tommy's job really depends on next years results, i think the admin is really putting pressure on him to win because R.C. wants to get into the big east and we need football to do a little better to get both in.
No, there are several. And there are several of us who hope it doesn't because we have noticed the toll injuries have taken, not to mention his heart surgery, then some assistant coaches not working out and some good ones moving on to better things. Some of us just like Coach West or are just leery of coaching changes. Since 1972, Pancoast 3 yrs, Williamson 6 yrs, Dockery 3 yrs, Dempsey 2 yrs, Bailey 3 yrs, Stobart 6 yrs, Scherer 6 yrs, and now West is starting his 8th.
Of course, you can say what good is stability if it is stably underperforming. You can look what Tommy Bowden did at Tulane, June Jones at Hawaii, Urban Meyer at Utah, Dennis Franchione at TCU, and other such turnaround artists and say that's what the Tigers need. That may be correct, but personally I give Coach West a pass because of all the injuries and the Def Coord problems (Whitt 2, Dunn 3-1/4, West 3/4, Kravitz 1, and now Walton, who if he hadn't left a few years ago would have probably already had the job). Plus, I don't think the Tiger program can attract a turnaround artist nor risk taking a chance on an unproven lower level coach (see Rip Scherer). There are some who might say the program got what it deserved for running off Coach Stobart after 3 straight 6-5 seasons. His DC Tim Rose might think that. After all, he turned down the Head Coach job when they offered it to him.
I too get frustrated hearing "well, we just didn't get it done, we've got to get better at ..." whether its running the ball, throwing the ball, pass defense, stopping the run, rushing the passer, special teams, fumbling, understanding the system ... every year its something. But, as has been reported here, we're not very competitive in what we pay assistants and the head coach can't spend a lot of time with individual players. A change might be a good thing, but Coach West has had better results than anyone since Pancoast and the program probably wasn't so far behind everybody else back then. I'm just as afraid of taking a step backward as I am a supporter of West.
I'm not sure if the admin is pressuring him because he can come right back in their faces with a list of what they haven't provided.
There is no need to change coaches if we aren't going to upgrade the facilities. As far as I'm concerned, Tommy is the man until something happens on the stadium front. If he's still losing then, we can revisit the topic.
Claw Wrote:There is no need to change coaches if we aren't going to upgrade the facilities. As far as I'm concerned, Tommy is the man until something happens on the stadium front. If he's still losing then, we can revisit the topic.
Everyone realizes that Tommy West makes more now than Cal did when he started here? We are stuck with him but Tommy is the equivalent of Johnny Jones. A good coach could do more to get the facilities upgraded. Tommy just can't mobilize the boosters.
jgardne Wrote:Tommy just can't mobilize the boosters.
Or there aren't boosters there to be mobilized.
Either way, I think you're on the right track.
Every AD works differently. This one seems to need his coaches to poke and prod him in to things. Otherwise, he's just cruising along.
mewes Wrote:Am I the only one that feels that tommy's job really depends on next years results, i think the admin is really putting pressure on him to win because R.C. wants to get into the big east and we need football to do a little better to get both in.
just you and that bonehead dak10.. if that's the case, shouldn't the administration provide him with the facilities needed to get the job done? our practice field doesn't even drain properly....practicing in mud up to your ankles sucks.
have you seen the basketball complex?
Dak10 Wrote:See, I told you so. Most people around here are somehow as blind and narrow minded as the poster above me.
Are you a member of the Highland Hundred?
Herff Tiger Wrote:mewes Wrote:Am I the only one that feels that tommy's job really depends on next years results, i think the admin is really putting pressure on him to win because R.C. wants to get into the big east and we need football to do a little better to get both in.
No, there are several. And there are several of us who hope it doesn't because we have noticed the toll injuries have taken, not to mention his heart surgery, then some assistant coaches not working out and some good ones moving on to better things. Some of us just like Coach West or are just leery of coaching changes. Since 1972, Pancoast 3 yrs, Williamson 6 yrs, Dockery 3 yrs, Dempsey 2 yrs, Bailey 3 yrs, Stobart 6 yrs, Scherer 6 yrs, and now West is starting his 8th.
Of course, you can say what good is stability if it is stably underperforming. You can look what Tommy Bowden did at Tulane, June Jones at Hawaii, Urban Meyer at Utah, Dennis Franchione at TCU, and other such turnaround artists and say that's what the Tigers need. That may be correct, but personally I give Coach West a pass because of all the injuries and the Def Coord problems (Whitt 2, Dunn 3-1/4, West 3/4, Kravitz 1, and now Walton, who if he hadn't left a few years ago would have probably already had the job). Plus, I don't think the Tiger program can attract a turnaround artist nor risk taking a chance on an unproven lower level coach (see Rip Scherer). There are some who might say the program got what it deserved for running off Coach Stobart after 3 straight 6-5 seasons. His DC Tim Rose might think that. After all, he turned down the Head Coach job when they offered it to him.
I too get frustrated hearing "well, we just didn't get it done, we've got to get better at ..." whether its running the ball, throwing the ball, pass defense, stopping the run, rushing the passer, special teams, fumbling, understanding the system ... every year its something. But, as has been reported here, we're not very competitive in what we pay assistants and the head coach can't spend a lot of time with individual players. A change might be a good thing, but Coach West has had better results than anyone since Pancoast and the program probably wasn't so far behind everybody else back then. I'm just as afraid of taking a step backward as I am a supporter of West.
I'm not sure if the admin is pressuring him because he can come right back in their faces with a list of what they haven't provided.
Pancoast had new buildings and ammentities. It took 30 years to even start catching up. TW got what Rip was promised when he was hired. You really have a sense for the business of the program and see how the progression of how things work. More should take a page from your studying the situation.
Also, remember that some people have personal axes to grind.
I dare say a lot of people were ready to fire Calipari a few years ago too.
I am a huge UofM supporter but recently have had enough of Tommy. Whenever I see the pay scales I see he is pretty high up there but does give us results. Don't say the bowl thing. You can be horrible and make a bowl game these days with the 98 bowls. For close to a Mil a year I just want to at least beat sunbelt teams and a few conference games...IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? Oh and maybe beat the team that can't win a game in their own conference!!! If you don't think Tommy is on the hot seat you are nuts. R.C. might not be the smartest man but he realizes that we are battling mediocre years to come.
I was going to sit on the sidelines for this thread, but I can't. As far as I'm concerned, being a fan gives you the right to have high/low expectations, question the coaches and want results. I am a member of the Highland Hundred and a lifelong season ticket holder and I'm freaking tired of losing to teams from the Sunbelt. Injuries or not, that is on the coach. I'm excited about seeing if the D improves with the addition of Walton. I'm not ready to fire anyone, but I've earned the right to expect results. It's OK to question the old guard and want more! Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that how this country was founded? Take the blinders off.
TigerCT Wrote:I was going to sit on the sidelines for this thread, but I can't. As far as I'm concerned, being a fan gives you the right to have high/low expectations, question the coaches and want results. I am a member of the Highland Hundred and a lifelong season ticket holder and I'm freaking tired of losing to teams from the Sunbelt. Injuries or not, that is on the coach. I'm excited about seeing if the D improves with the addition of Walton. I'm not ready to fire anyone, but I've earned the right to expect results. It's OK to question the old guard and want more! Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that how this country was founded? Take the blinders off.
Exactly. People on this board think if you say anything bad about a coach or player or even want more you are a...miserable.
GoTigersGo10 Wrote:I am a huge UofM supporter but recently have had enough of Tommy. Whenever I see the pay scales I see he is pretty high up there but does give us results. Don't say the bowl thing. You can be horrible and make a bowl game these days with the 98 bowls. For close to a Mil a year I just want to at least beat sunbelt teams and a few conference games...IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? Oh and maybe beat the team that can't win a game in their own conference!!! If you don't think Tommy is on the hot seat you are nuts. R.C. might not be the smartest man but he realizes that we are battling mediocre years to come.
I have never read anything like that anywhere before. I must reevaluate my entire perspective about the matter.
Quote:It's OK to question the old guard and want more!
I can't tell if that is or not.
When are we going to stop blaming facilities for everything? I agree they keep us from competing with SEC schools locally but we are NOT in the SEC, he has ebough to win stinking C-USA and we haven't scared that really, even with the greatest Tiger ever and guys like Wimprine, Avery and other NFL type players. We have as much or more than most conference teams, he needs to be taking us to the Liberty Bowl every so often, not the NO Bowl every year and get blown away by yet another Sun Belt team in their first bowl game EVER!!!!
I think he's on hot seat this year. I love TW and could be very content with him. However, if the goal is to take the next step with bowl appearances and conf. affiliation, it might be time to get someone a little more dynamic - John L Smith.
Claw Wrote:There is no need to change coaches if we aren't going to upgrade the facilities. As far as I'm concerned, Tommy is the man until something happens on the stadium front. If he's still losing then, we can revisit the topic.
I strongly agree....I think we are at the point where our facilities more than the coaching will improve our recruiting.....And I truly believe that our records over the last 3 years have been hampered more by injuries than by coaching....West knows how to win and recruit at a University with D1 facilities; but he was done in there by unrealistic expectations at that time just as it appears may be happening here....Its not unrealistic to expect to compete for a CUSA championship (we WERE 2nd in the East last year)....And no matter what Tommy does, the Liberty Bowl is the best bowl we can hope for unless we get a Boise or Hawaii type run; and that is what he is scheduling for instead of playing 4 SEC teams a year....Say all you want about the Sun-Belt losses, but injuries and circumstances (weather cancellations, player death) caused last years inconsistencies...
Unless 4-5 million per season can be found for the football program alone, bringing in another coach is going to be like every other time that a coach was fired. As someone pointed out earlier, there is a damn good reason that a life span as coach at Memphis is short and highly unsuccessful. It takes money to build and maintain facilities, hire and keep good assistants, and present a good program to the recruits and the public...like out basketball is funded to do. I don't have to defend the current coach but anything with a clear head can look at four decades and see a trend here that only Pancoast and Dockery managed to avoid. I want our program to flourish but it takes far more than message board posts to make it work. This same, lame arguement keeps coming up and many avoid the truth that until the 4-5 million is found for football, competing on a basis like most want is just not going to happen. It is an arms race and we are losing. Someone mentioned John L. Smith and, if you recall, he left Louisville which was on the rise, for Michigan State which didn't work out so well. Would he come here and take a job where his budget is about half of what he is used to working with? Anyway we slice it, it takes money to win in today's big time football marketplace. Right now, the school is doing it on the cheap and it affects every aspect of the program....scheduling, coaching staff, recruiting, and marketing as well as bricks and mortar. As I said earlier, it took three decades to upgrade our practice facility. That really tells me that we are ready to compete with the BCS schools, lol. This is a business. Most fail in the first few years years to underfunding. Guess what. We are a business that is scraping by and bordering on failing. However, we are doing things that were not done previously and that is something to be grateful for. We all want more. Maybe we should open our wallets and write a check, save the excuses, and make this happen. This program will not run on message board posts...it takes money.
quick question - what was our conference record last year?
mewes Wrote:Am I the only one that feels that tommy's job really depends on next years results,
I would say there at least a couple hundred malcontents who think like you - several of them regularly post on messageboards. By comparison, I think there are at least 25,000 Tiger fans who consider Tommy West to be the right coach for Memphis and support his efforts to build the kind of upper-level program that we all want.
GoTigersGo10 Wrote:I am a huge UofM supporter but recently have had enough of Tommy.
Are you saying you are a discontented lard-***?
tigerjeb Wrote:quick question - what was our conference record last year?
6-2
Gray Avenger Wrote:mewes Wrote:Am I the only one that feels that tommy's job really depends on next years results,
I would say there at least a couple hundred malcontents who think like you - several of them regularly post on messageboards. By comparison, I think there are at least 25,000 Tiger fans who consider Tommy West to be the right coach for Memphis and support his efforts to build the kind of upper-level program that we all want.
Were these the same people who were booing the "Booze It or Lose It" ad on the Jumbotron after the MTSU game?
Are we talking 25k "fans" or 25k "supporters"
ZachMan Wrote:When are we going to stop blaming facilities for everything?
When are we going to stop calling for coaches heads after every bit of adversity? Tommy West is the right coach for Memphis.
fsquid Wrote:Are we talking 25k "fans" or 25k "supporters"
How about 25,000 "spectators"? I will leave the break-down of sub-classifications to you.
ZachMan Wrote:When are we going to stop blaming facilities for everything? I agree they keep us from competing with SEC schools locally but we are NOT in the SEC, he has ebough to win stinking C-USA and we haven't scared that really, even with the greatest Tiger ever and guys like Wimprine, Avery and other NFL type players. We have as much or more than most conference teams, he needs to be taking us to the Liberty Bowl every so often, not the NO Bowl every year and get blown away by yet another Sun Belt team in their first bowl game EVER!!!!
Our facilities don't compare to many Ohio Valley Conference schools. Most Sun Belt programs have better facilities. The majority of CUSA programs have MUCH better facilities.....
Yes, facilities are a HUGE issue. I remember recruits coming into the weightroom and LAUGHING at what we had.
Here are pics from a few other programs...
http://sorinexcustom.com/images/fac/UCF/UCF.html
http://sorinexcustom.com/images/fac/Jack...rsity.html
http://athleticfacilitydesign.com/v2i4/i...art1-2.jpg
http://fausports.cstv.com/ot/fau-strength.html
Gray Avenger Wrote:fsquid Wrote:Are we talking 25k "fans" or 25k "supporters"
How about 25,000 "spectators"? I will leave the break-down of sub-classifications to you.
You are the one that is quick to label. I simply wanted to get your view on what kind of spectators these were.
MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:I dare say a lot of people were ready to fire Calipari a few years ago too.
Ain't that the truth...I can remember getting digitally hammered by some of the folks who now frequent "The Other Board That Shall Remain Nameless" for being an ardent Calipari supporter just 3 seasons ago.
GermantownTiger Wrote:MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:I dare say a lot of people were ready to fire Calipari a few years ago too.
Ain't that the truth...I can remember getting digitally hammered by some of the folks who now frequent "The Other Board That Shall Remain Nameless" for being an ardent Calipari supporter just 3 seasons ago.
Name two other than TG4 or Btiger.....
Am I the only one that feels this topic has come up many times and been discussed ad nauseum?
Tommy is the coach. Support the coach. Easy enough.
TigerChick Wrote:GermantownTiger Wrote:MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:I dare say a lot of people were ready to fire Calipari a few years ago too.
Ain't that the truth...I can remember getting digitally hammered by some of the folks who now frequent "The Other Board That Shall Remain Nameless" for being an ardent Calipari supporter just 3 seasons ago.
Name two other than TG4 or Btiger.....
I have to admit my memory is pretty lousy about the specific haters given the passing of time, but those two are certainly high up on the "Miserable" chain.
TigerChick Wrote:tigerjeb Wrote:quick question - what was our conference record last year?
6-2
(I just happened to be responding to your post Tigerchick, so these comments aren't aimed at you personally)
How many coaches that went 6-2 in their conference were fired last year?
How many coaches that took 30 year bowl draught programs to 5 bowls in 6 years (or whatever the string is) were fired last year?
Seriously, why is it OK for folks to call for Tommy's head on a regular basis, but it's not OK for folks that don't want him fired to defend him?
Why can only one voice be heard?
Why can't well intentioned long time fans who appreciate where we've come from not speak their opinion without being demonized by some?
In many cases pot is clearly calling the kettle black in this instance.
mewes Wrote:Am I the only one that feels that tommy's job really depends on next years results, i think the admin is really putting pressure on him to win because R.C. wants to get into the big east and we need football to do a little better to get both in.
You're almost right in your assumption. There's a lot of people who feel that TW's job
should depend on the 2008 season, but most of those people also realize that R.C. isn't in a position to make a move of any kind due to TW's contract and the fact we simply can't afford to hire the "big name" coach like we did in basketball.
It's a classic Catch-22 situation. We need money in order to build a winning football program. We need to win more in order to get the needed money funnelled into the football program.
If a "big time" financial committment isn't made by the boosters and the university to the football program, there's no need to expect different results nor is there any need to change coaches.
TigerChick Wrote:GermantownTiger Wrote:MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:I dare say a lot of people were ready to fire Calipari a few years ago too.
Ain't that the truth...I can remember getting digitally hammered by some of the folks who now frequent "The Other Board That Shall Remain Nameless" for being an ardent Calipari supporter just 3 seasons ago.
Name two other than TG4 or Btiger.....
Two from the other board or just two in general?
I'm just answering your questions with other questions, oldtiger, and not pointing anything at you directly.
oldtiger Wrote:How many coaches that went 6-2 in their conference were fired last year? How many coaches went 6-2 in their conference but lost three games to teams from the SunBelt conference?
How many coaches that took 30 year bowl draught programs to 5 bowls in 6 years (or whatever the string is) were fired last year? 4 bowls in 5 years, and that's a step in the right direction. When is it okay for fans to start expecting the next steps to be taken?
Seriously, why is it OK for folks to call for Tommy's head on a regular basis, but it's not OK for folks that don't want him fired to defend him? It's a two-way street as far as I'm concerned...both camps should be able to speak their voice without being called "lard-***", "malcontents", "idiots", "morons" or being accused of wearing blue shades and drinking blue koolaid.
Why can only one voice be heard? I hear you.
Why can't well intentioned long time fans who appreciate where we've come from not speak their opinion without being demonized by some? Agree...and at the same time why can't well-intentioned long time fans who appreciate where we've come from not express their desire for better results without being subjected to the "you're not a true fan" comment?
In many cases pot is clearly calling the kettle black in this instance.
Passionate debate is a great - though oftentimes forgotten and abused - benefit of messageboards such as this.
I thought that was the only two on that board?
when was the last time we had an outspoken FB coach, long the lines of Calipari?
BrianJ Wrote:jgardne Wrote:Tommy just can't mobilize the boosters.
Or there aren't boosters there to be mobilized.
Either way, I think you're on the right track.
Every AD works differently. This one seems to need his coaches to poke and prod him in to things. Otherwise, he's just cruising along.
how very, very true.