the other Greg Childers Wrote:I know I was sitting up in the nosebleed section at the Cincinnati basketball game near a group of roughly 20-30 blue-clad Tiger supporters. After the game, I struck up a conversation with a few of them. I asked if any of them were going to the New Orleans Bowl. One of them said that a few of them were. I asked him if he was going and he said, "Oh hell no. They stink."
Funny, I didn't see all the rest of you there. You must not be real fans.
I'd like you to describe that person that said that. I was with that group of folks. I am very curious. I know them all pretty darn well.
georgiatiger Wrote:missjtiger Wrote:SigEpMike Wrote:missjtiger Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:egrizzard Wrote:.
Before the NO Bowl (1st), did you EVER imagine we would be arguing this much abouta winning season and a bowl bid?
Nope and I am glad we are having this discussion. It means we had a taste of success and want more, I do believe those vehemently defending TW do want more and I think they believe he can do lead us to the next level.
I admittedly do not have share that same faith in TW as others. Mostly because of the stats we have all all seen and heard over and over. I think TW is a great guy, I just want more from the FB program. I will also rejoin the HH, continue to buy season tickets and increase my TSF donation if I can.
IF TW proves me wrong I will happily eat a double helping of crow as well. I just do not see it happening next year which begs the question, how long to you go before making a change?!
As for moving this to the smack forum, I 100% disagree, not that my opinion matters, especially as long as people can stop the name calling, is that really necessary?? Regardless of how irritated you are by one point of view vs. another I think the answer is no.
Carry on.......
I guess some of it just is a difference in personalities...I enjoy a good debate and don't mind constructive criticism one bit but my heavens....how many times can one person say the same thing ? I understand you wanting this to stay here for recruits and their families to see because you also enjoy being a regular on a message board that is mostly made up of depressed, frustrated, mad, vindictive, rejects from this board. I tried fitting in over there and found it mostly depressing. I understand the football program needs alot of work but to beat a dead horse ? Maybe it needs to move to the FUT board ? ya'll can beat it to death over there ? I do know that TOGC would fit in very nicely over there.
Why would Chick want something to be here to influence recruits negatively? You may not like FUT's board, but Chick, FUT and many others "over there" are as big of a Tiger fan as anyone on here.
and I never said they weren't ???????? each to their own
I've got something really funny to say here, but for fear of my life I'm going to zip it.
aww come on...spit it out
missjtiger Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:I know I was sitting up in the nosebleed section at the Cincinnati basketball game near a group of roughly 20-30 blue-clad Tiger supporters. After the game, I struck up a conversation with a few of them. I asked if any of them were going to the New Orleans Bowl. One of them said that a few of them were. I asked him if he was going and he said, "Oh hell no. They stink."
Funny, I didn't see all the rest of you there. You must not be real fans.
I'd like you to describe that person that said that. I was with that group of folks. I am very curious. I know them all pretty darn well.
If I said it was an older gentleman with grey hair, it wouldn't narrow it down much. It seemed like I was the youngest Tiger fan there by at least 25-30 years.
People need to step outside their back-slapping club and find out what people are really saying about the team.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:oakland steve Wrote:The customer analogy is not legitimate. We are boosters and the program needs, expects and deserves our support! Tommy West said the day he was hired that he could not do this alone! He has repeated this many times over.
In fact name me a program where the the head coach reached the type of success you crave without the support of the admin.,the community, and yes the boosters? You and others may consider themselves customers if so I encourage you to do your part and join the HH,TSF,Rebounders, etc. Buy your season tickets or increase the number you currently purchase. Then you will be invested in the program and will no longer consider yourself a "customer" but a fan! It is a much more enjoyable way to spend your days, why don't you give it a try, we welcome any and all!
If you and others like you spent 1/2 the energy you waste trashing the staff and the program on trying to better the program we would be in a much better place.
Your argument is flimsy. People don't support underachieving programs. The basketball team had a lot of low attendance games during the Tic Price and Johnny Jones days. The Lady Tigers basketball team is having huge difficulties finding fans. For 42 years, the Tiger football team has had trouble convincing people to go to the non-SEC home games.
Put a good product on the field and people will show up.
Oh, I used to be a member of the Highland Hundred. I gave up my membership because I didn't see it doing any good. I still go to games when I can.
Ok so my agrument is flawed but your's is correct? Well just so we are all clear which came first Greg the chicken or the egg?
I think Tommy has overachieved in his time here at Memphis considering the hand he was dealt when arriving and the limited support he has been giving since that time. I also think Tommy has proven himself worthy of an increased commitment (facilties,staff,salaries,etc)from "everyone" who considers themselves a fan of this program. This commitment can only come if people like yourself pony up and provide additional revenue through season ticket sales and donations to provide this additional commitment. This is why "blaming the customer" is a valid agrument. You say you want more for the program and we are settling? I say we are providing the means for the program to have more and you are sitting on your azz bitchin! Again Tommy has stated over and over if we want more he needs our help to get it, if you really want more for this program tell me what you are doing to help "US" get their?
Your agrument is flawed my friend and I'd be more than willing to sit down buy you a beer and talk this out because I believe your heart is in the right place you just do not seem to understand that this is a college team and not a pro franchise. We are the owners of this team and as such it our responsibilty to provide the means with which to grow this program to the next level. If for example everybody who says " I love the basketball team but the football team just does not win enough" or any other variation of this quote which we have all heard numerous times; would all man up buy season tickets, join the HH, and attend the games then magically we would have the funds we need to move this baby to the next level which is what we all want wether you believe that or not. Which takes me right back to my original question which came first Greg the chicken or the egg?
the other Greg Childers Wrote:missjtiger Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:I know I was sitting up in the nosebleed section at the Cincinnati basketball game near a group of roughly 20-30 blue-clad Tiger supporters. After the game, I struck up a conversation with a few of them. I asked if any of them were going to the New Orleans Bowl. One of them said that a few of them were. I asked him if he was going and he said, "Oh hell no. They stink."
Funny, I didn't see all the rest of you there. You must not be real fans.
I'd like you to describe that person that said that. I was with that group of folks. I am very curious. I know them all pretty darn well.
If I said it was an older gentleman with grey hair, it wouldn't narrow it down much. It seemed like I was the youngest Tiger fan there by at least 25-30 years.
People need to step outside their back-slapping club and find out what people are really saying about the team.
so are you saying it was an older guy with grey hair ? first, there were just a few men there and even fewer with grey hair so that narrows it down pretty good. that's all you remember ? was he sitting with a female ? end of row ? middle ? did he yell during the game or was he quiet ? I can figure out who it is if you give me a little bit more. thanks....
missjtiger Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:missjtiger Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:I know I was sitting up in the nosebleed section at the Cincinnati basketball game near a group of roughly 20-30 blue-clad Tiger supporters. After the game, I struck up a conversation with a few of them. I asked if any of them were going to the New Orleans Bowl. One of them said that a few of them were. I asked him if he was going and he said, "Oh hell no. They stink."
Funny, I didn't see all the rest of you there. You must not be real fans.
I'd like you to describe that person that said that. I was with that group of folks. I am very curious. I know them all pretty darn well.
If I said it was an older gentleman with grey hair, it wouldn't narrow it down much. It seemed like I was the youngest Tiger fan there by at least 25-30 years.
People need to step outside their back-slapping club and find out what people are really saying about the team.
so are you saying it was an older guy with grey hair ? first, there were just a few men there and even fewer with grey hair so that narrows it down pretty good. that's all you remember ? was he sitting with a female ? end of row ? middle ? did he yell during the game or was he quiet ? I can figure out who it is if you give me a little bit more. thanks....
I have no idea who he was sitting near. We struck up a conversation as we were walking out after the final buzzer sounded.
Also, some lady overheard some of the disparaging remarks and said "Are you talking about Tommy?"
I'd give you more, but I'm not part of the club apparently. I don't know all these people by first name.
TigerBill Wrote:I give the team a pass for the MTSU loss. To a man they have all said that after the Taylor Bradford memorial they were drained and in shock for that game. The Marshall game was played on sheer emotion but the MTSU was after the emotion had worn off and left them empty. That's what they say. Combine that with the loss of your senior leader. Will is, I still think, a fine QB, but what he did not have at that point was the leadership capacity that Hankins had. Hankins was the team leader, at least in the second half of the season.
I know it makes no difference to TOGC and some others whatsoever. He hates TW so blindly that no other conditions matter. It's just my opinion, but I think the MTSU loss should be off the table. To hold the coaches and team responsible in the conditions prevailing at the time is asking too much and taking sports way too seriously.
But that's just me. As always, your results may vary.
TigerBill, I know there are quite a few posts made after you made this one, but I just read it and completely agree with you. It is unfortunate that many of us have forgotten the early turmoil this season brought to the Tiger FB program. 3 games in 11 days and the tragedy in the midst of it tested this team more than we may ever know.
missjtiger Wrote:[in TOGC's defense.....he doesn't attend games so there is no way he can see what Will contributes 
I guess the coach's show is more informative than I thought. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to give such expert reviews on Will's performances.
oakland steve Wrote:Ok so my agrument is flawed but your's is correct? Well just so we are all clear which came first Greg the chicken or the egg?
I think Tommy has overachieved in his time here at Memphis considering the hand he was dealt when arriving and the limited support he has been giving since that time. I also think Tommy has proven himself worthy of an increased commitment (facilties,staff,salaries,etc)from "everyone" who considers themselves a fan of this program. This commitment can only come if people like yourself pony up and provide additional revenue through season ticket sales and donations to provide this additional commitment. This is why "blaming the customer" is a valid agrument. You say you want more for the program and we are settling? I say we are providing the means for the program to have more and you are sitting on your azz bitchin! Again Tommy has stated over and over if we want more he needs our help to get it, if you really want more for this program tell me what you are doing to help "US" get their?
Your agrument is flawed my friend and I'd be more than willing to sit down buy you a beer and talk this out because I believe your heart is in the right place you just do not seem to understand that this is a college team and not a pro franchise. We are the owners of this team and as such it our responsibilty to provide the means with which to grow this program to the next level. If for example everybody who says " I love the basketball team but the football team just does not win enough" or any other variation of this quote which we have all heard numerous times; would all man up buy season tickets, join the HH, and attend the games then magically we would have the funds we need to move this baby to the next level which is what we all want wether you believe that or not. Which takes me right back to my original question which came first Greg the chicken or the egg?
I understand the money and facilities argument. I keep the "On Campus Stadium Now" picture in my signature because I strongly believe in it and support it.
In the 42 years since the Liberty Bowl was built, there has been no support of the Tiger football program. The city doesn't care, the boosters and alumni haven't picked up the tab to fix the problems, and the fan base ebbs and flows between 25-35,000 depending upon whether or not an SEC team is playing at the LB.
People (
not counting here) just don't give a damn. Otherwise, it would already be done.
I take back everything I said about Tommy. He can stay. They'll fire him in a few years anyway. They'll replace him with another coach and fire him too. The university doesn't give a damn about the team, or they would've done something to help.
marktheapostle Wrote:TigerBill Wrote:I give the team a pass for the MTSU loss. To a man they have all said that after the Taylor Bradford memorial they were drained and in shock for that game. The Marshall game was played on sheer emotion but the MTSU was after the emotion had worn off and left them empty. That's what they say. Combine that with the loss of your senior leader. Will is, I still think, a fine QB, but what he did not have at that point was the leadership capacity that Hankins had. Hankins was the team leader, at least in the second half of the season.
I know it makes no difference to TOGC and some others whatsoever. He hates TW so blindly that no other conditions matter. It's just my opinion, but I think the MTSU loss should be off the table. To hold the coaches and team responsible in the conditions prevailing at the time is asking too much and taking sports way too seriously.
But that's just me. As always, your results may vary.
TigerBill, I know there are quite a few posts made after you made this one, but I just read it and completely agree with you. It is unfortunate that many of us have forgotten the early turmoil this season brought to the Tiger FB program. 3 games in 11 days and the tragedy in the midst of it tested this team more than we may ever know.
Thanks Mark. I care way too much about the doings of a bunch of college kids wearing my school colors, but at the end of the day they are still a bunch of college kids. It's like expecting my daughter to lose one of her best friends and go play a game the day after the memorial service. In the eyes or the world they are adults, but as Cal says, they aren't machines.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:oakland steve Wrote:Ok so my agrument is flawed but your's is correct? Well just so we are all clear which came first Greg the chicken or the egg?
I think Tommy has overachieved in his time here at Memphis considering the hand he was dealt when arriving and the limited support he has been giving since that time. I also think Tommy has proven himself worthy of an increased commitment (facilties,staff,salaries,etc)from "everyone" who considers themselves a fan of this program. This commitment can only come if people like yourself pony up and provide additional revenue through season ticket sales and donations to provide this additional commitment. This is why "blaming the customer" is a valid agrument. You say you want more for the program and we are settling? I say we are providing the means for the program to have more and you are sitting on your azz bitchin! Again Tommy has stated over and over if we want more he needs our help to get it, if you really want more for this program tell me what you are doing to help "US" get their?
Your agrument is flawed my friend and I'd be more than willing to sit down buy you a beer and talk this out because I believe your heart is in the right place you just do not seem to understand that this is a college team and not a pro franchise. We are the owners of this team and as such it our responsibilty to provide the means with which to grow this program to the next level. If for example everybody who says " I love the basketball team but the football team just does not win enough" or any other variation of this quote which we have all heard numerous times; would all man up buy season tickets, join the HH, and attend the games then magically we would have the funds we need to move this baby to the next level which is what we all want wether you believe that or not. Which takes me right back to my original question which came first Greg the chicken or the egg?
I understand the money and facilities argument. I keep the "On Campus Stadium Now" picture in my signature because I strongly believe in it and support it.
In the 42 years since the Liberty Bowl was built, there has been no support of the Tiger football program. The city doesn't care, the boosters and alumni haven't picked up the tab to fix the problems, and the fan base ebbs and flows between 25-35,000 depending upon whether or not an SEC team is playing at the LB.
People (not counting here) just don't give a damn. Otherwise, it would already be done.
I take back everything I said about Tommy. He can stay. They'll fire him in a few years anyway. They'll replace him with another coach and fire him too. The university doesn't give a damn about the team, or they would've done something to help.
See I told you guys Greg wasnt all bad. He is just like a lot of other people who see the success of the basketball team, has tasted a little succes in football and wants more. Greg we all want more for the football program our point is the only way to get their is to pony up and provide the means to the end. Firing Tommy and getting another coach who we dont support is not the answer. Getting a neighbor,co-worker,friend etc to join the hh and buy season tickets is the answer. If you truly want more, which I for one believe you do, then we as fans have to provide more with which to work with.
oakland steve Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:oakland steve Wrote:Ok so my agrument is flawed but your's is correct? Well just so we are all clear which came first Greg the chicken or the egg?
I think Tommy has overachieved in his time here at Memphis considering the hand he was dealt when arriving and the limited support he has been giving since that time. I also think Tommy has proven himself worthy of an increased commitment (facilties,staff,salaries,etc)from "everyone" who considers themselves a fan of this program. This commitment can only come if people like yourself pony up and provide additional revenue through season ticket sales and donations to provide this additional commitment. This is why "blaming the customer" is a valid agrument. You say you want more for the program and we are settling? I say we are providing the means for the program to have more and you are sitting on your azz bitchin! Again Tommy has stated over and over if we want more he needs our help to get it, if you really want more for this program tell me what you are doing to help "US" get their?
Your agrument is flawed my friend and I'd be more than willing to sit down buy you a beer and talk this out because I believe your heart is in the right place you just do not seem to understand that this is a college team and not a pro franchise. We are the owners of this team and as such it our responsibilty to provide the means with which to grow this program to the next level. If for example everybody who says " I love the basketball team but the football team just does not win enough" or any other variation of this quote which we have all heard numerous times; would all man up buy season tickets, join the HH, and attend the games then magically we would have the funds we need to move this baby to the next level which is what we all want wether you believe that or not. Which takes me right back to my original question which came first Greg the chicken or the egg?
I understand the money and facilities argument. I keep the "On Campus Stadium Now" picture in my signature because I strongly believe in it and support it.
In the 42 years since the Liberty Bowl was built, there has been no support of the Tiger football program. The city doesn't care, the boosters and alumni haven't picked up the tab to fix the problems, and the fan base ebbs and flows between 25-35,000 depending upon whether or not an SEC team is playing at the LB.
People (not counting here) just don't give a damn. Otherwise, it would already be done.
I take back everything I said about Tommy. He can stay. They'll fire him in a few years anyway. They'll replace him with another coach and fire him too. The university doesn't give a damn about the team, or they would've done something to help.
See I told you guys Greg wasnt all bad. He is just like a lot of other people who see the success of the basketball team, has tasted a little succes in football and wants more. Greg we all want more for the football program our point is the only way to get their is to pony up and provide the means to the end. Firing Tommy and getting another coach who we dont support is not the answer. Getting a neighbor,co-worker,friend etc to join the hh and buy season tickets is the answer. If you truly want more, which I for one believe you do, then we as fans have to provide more with which to work with.
This has nothing to do with the basketball team. I had the same opinion when I was sitting in the student section of the Liberty Bowl in 1988 watching a Charlie Bailey team go 6-5.
With the talent and the schedules Tommy has had, he should've had at least one 10-win season by now. Seven wins just isn't enough for me.
The question remains:
Is TW the one to get us to the 'next level'?
Right now, TOGC and I are not happy with the current level that we are at. In the last 3 years, we've gone 7-5 with a win in the Motor City Bowl, 2-10 and bowlless and 7-6 with a fairly convincing loss to FAU. And, these results are in TW's 5th, 6th, and 7th years respectively. Throw in the fact that we are 0-4 against the Sunbelt in the last 2 years (in TW's 6th and 7th years) and I am not certain that TW can take us to the next level. I'll give him 2 more years to do it, but in 9 years, most coaches have outlived their useful lives. In fact, I believe that TW is the 'dean' of C-USA coaches in terms of longevity. He's been there longer than O'Leary, Holtz, UH, etc.
To me, this is not an indicator that TW can take us to the next level. And, the next level is a division C-USA title, if not a Liberty Bowl appearance.
Are there a list of coaches that would consider us?
I wouldn't mind seeing Trooper Taylor, Joker Phillips, Jeff Bower. I, for one, think we COULD get those individuals here...especially at TW's current pay of $925k/year.
And if anyone would like to discuss it in a truly civil manner, I would gladly meet you for a beer. I have the holidays off, and I don't have to go out of town until the 2nd. If anyone wants to meet this weekend, send me a PM and we'll do it.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:And if anyone would like to discuss it in a truly civil manner.
Using yourself and the word civil in the same sentence is an oxymoron.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:No one wants to tell me why they think Tommy is a good coach. I get that now.
You are so 100% wrong. Lots of people have said why they think Tommy is a good coach if you would care to go back and read all the posts but the point of it all is that you disagree with them so they are all wrong and you're right. That's what I don't get. If you're so right and everyone else is so wrong, why has Tommy had 4 winning seasons and in each of those seasons taken us to a bowl game, something that has never happened before and also provided this school and team more national exposure than any previous coach regardless of their winning percentage? Oh never mind, I know, weak opponents, lower attendance, lower caliber of recruits, poor assistants, etc, blah, blah, blah.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Apparently if I don't go to every single game even though my job keeps me hundreds of miles away from the stadium, I'm not a "real" fan.
I'm also responsible for donating money, or I'm not a "real" fan.
Don't use the broad paint brush here. The vast majority of us have never said anything to you about that.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:You people are more obsessed than I could ever hope to be. You're also much more miserable than I could be on my worst day.
I asked for an honest, civil discussion of Tommy's performance and have been met with ridicule, malice, and condemnation.
We're not the ones calling for firing a coach after winning so there's no way you can legitimately call us miserable but then you go by your own rules anyway.
Coming from the master of ridicule, that's a pretty good one.
Now your turn. Start over again spouting your statistics and claiming that you know more than everyone else.
I need to break something to you. If Coach West was anywhere near as bad as you want to claim he is, the big money boosters would be screaming for his head and the administration would be giving ultimatums. I haven't seen that happen yet, not saying it won't but it hasn't so far.
"I'd give you more, but I'm not part of the club apparently. I don't know all these people by first name."
I understand that you don't know them by name that's why I asked you to describe him but what do you mean that you're not part of the club ? what club ?
MemphisMike, no beer for you. You're too moody.
Greg--I answered your question. You did not answer mine though--
I also have the fool-proof solution for BCS inclusion--loop the ends.
missjtiger Wrote:"I'd give you more, but I'm not part of the club apparently. I don't know all these people by first name."
I understand that you don't know them by name that's why I asked you to describe him but what do you mean that you're not part of the club ? what club ?
I get the impression from several posts on this board that many of the people here know each other socially. Even when I went to every single home football game + one or two road games, I never tailgated. I went straight to the game, and went home after it was over.
I know, I'm not a fan.
I may have sat next to a lot of you in the past, but never known it.
Who here went to the Cincinnati basketball game? I was sitting in the upper level in section 205.
egrizzard Wrote:Greg--I answered your question. You did not answer mine though--
I also have the fool-proof solution for BCS inclusion--loop the ends.
I'm sorry. I was distracted by 50 posts telling me I'm not a fan.
Could you repeat the question?
When you imply that you have no responsibilty to the program but that you do however have the right to complain then you will be seen as less than a fan.
I don't think many really want to fire TW right now. What everybody wants is to win the games we are supposed to. The money HS goes right out the window when three of your losses are Sun Belt teams.
The truth is Rey Dempsey could win 7 games facing the schedule we played this year. TW's problem next year is he will be without the single player that dragged this team to 7 wins. If Hall fares the same as his predecessor at the juco he is from then TW will be gone after next year.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:missjtiger Wrote:"I'd give you more, but I'm not part of the club apparently. I don't know all these people by first name."
I understand that you don't know them by name that's why I asked you to describe him but what do you mean that you're not part of the club ? what club ?
I get the impression from several posts on this board that many of the people here know each other socially. Even when I went to every single home football game + one or two road games, I never tailgated. I went straight to the game, and went home after it was over.
I know, I'm not a fan.
I may have sat next to a lot of you in the past, but never known it.
Who here went to the Cincinnati basketball game? I was sitting in the upper level in section 205.
Some of us know each other from years and years of being on this and other message boards. Some of us have met thru Highland Hundred or Rebounders or tailgating. Why do you think some don't think you are a fan ? By the way, if there is a "club" here...I don't know about it and don't belong. There have been several functions thru the years to meet posters here if you wanted to. Everyone I've met here are good folks. Some are passionate about football and some basketball and some both/all sports. We all care and we all have different ideas on what has to happen to make us happy or satisfied but we do have one thing in common and that's our love of the tigers.
What are the carrer numbers on Hudgins ? I am curious to know his completion % and td to int ratio, if I were looking thru a NFL scouts eyes instead of the biased blue glasses I have, I do not think that Will would be graded very highly. In all honesty when I think of Hudgins I think of a big strong kid that has a strong arm, lacks accuracy, injury prone, lacks mobility, has good leadership qualities, and has not performed well under the bright lights or in clutch situations. I also think that if TW really wanted Hudgins to be the starter next year, he would not have gone after Arkelon Hall. I am willing to bet that Hall wins the job ,with Malouf backing up and Hudgins is the long snapper to finish out his carrer.
missjtiger Wrote:Why do you think some don't think you are a fan ?
Because I complain.
I guess they think fans are supposed to ignore it when they see things going wrong. I'm fighting like hell to get people to acknowledge the trends, and recognize the problems.
The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.
Hudgens only shot at QB is if our WRs learn to catch the ball with their feet.
Tigersmm Wrote:What are the carrer numbers on Hudgins ? I am curious to know his completion % and td to int ratio, if I were looking thru a NFL scouts eyes instead of the biased blue glasses I have, I do not think that Will would be graded very highly. In all honesty when I think of Hudgins I think of a big strong kid that has a strong arm, lacks accuracy, injury prone, lacks mobility, has good leadership qualities, and has not performed well under the bright lights or in clutch situations. I also think that if TW really wanted Hudgins to be the starter next year, he would not have gone after Arkelon Hall. I am willing to bet that Hall wins the job ,with Malouf backing up and Hudgins is the long snapper to finish out his carrer.
Ask and ye shall receive.
2007
52-104 (50.0%) for 587 yards (5.6 yards per attempt), 5 TDs, 0 INTs
2006
2-4 (50.0%) for 14 yards (3.5 yards per attempt), 0 TDs, 0 INTs
2005
33-62 (53.2%) for 413 yards (6.7 yards per attempt), 3 TDs, 2 INTs
I agree with your assessment of Hudgens.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:MemphisMike, no beer for you. You're too moody.
Just as well, I don't drink beer.
And just in case the others didn't see this in the other thread. I just find it interesting he went from Hall of Fame to worthless needing to be fired so quickly.
From June 11, 2007
the other Greg Childers Wrote:I love Tommy for what he's done for the football program. Taking the team to three consecutive bowls, when they haven't been to one in 30 years, is grounds for nominating him to the University of Memphis Athletics Hall of Fame.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Billy J. Murphy 91-44-1 0.673
Ralph Hatley 59-43-5 0.575
Zach Curlin 43-61-14 0.424
Tommy West 34-38-0 0.472
Tommy is already 4th on the all-time coaching wins list at the University.
Ten more and he moves up to third. 26 more and he moves up to second.
He's also only the fourth coach in university history to last more than six years.
tigertommy Wrote:Hudgens only shot at QB is if our WRs learn to catch the ball with their feet.
Brutal but funny and I'm pming the mods to make you remove that sig.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Tigersmm Wrote:What are the carrer numbers on Hudgins ? I am curious to know his completion % and td to int ratio, if I were looking thru a NFL scouts eyes instead of the biased blue glasses I have, I do not think that Will would be graded very highly. In all honesty when I think of Hudgins I think of a big strong kid that has a strong arm, lacks accuracy, injury prone, lacks mobility, has good leadership qualities, and has not performed well under the bright lights or in clutch situations. I also think that if TW really wanted Hudgins to be the starter next year, he would not have gone after Arkelon Hall. I am willing to bet that Hall wins the job ,with Malouf backing up and Hudgins is the long snapper to finish out his carrer.
Ask and ye shall receive.
2007
52-104 (50.0%) for 587 yards (5.6 yards per attempt), 5 TDs, 0 INTs
2006
2-4 (50.0%) for 14 yards (3.5 yards per attempt), 0 TDs, 0 INTs
2005
33-62 (53.2%) for 413 yards (6.7 yards per attempt), 3 TDs, 2 INTs
I agree with your assessment of Hudgens.
Pretty much agree from what I have seen, but it is worth saying that he is one of those kids that it is great to have as a Tiger. Seems like he will do anything for the team (fullback, deep snapper, backup qb), and is a local kid who loves the Tigers.
I thought his bowl game hair cut rocked!
MemphisMike Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:MemphisMike, no beer for you. You're too moody.
Just as well, I don't drink beer.
I knew there was a reason I didn't trust you.
And if you're going to quote me, quote the whole thing.
MemphisMike Wrote:And just in case the others didn't see this in the other thread. I just find it interesting he went from Hall of Fame to worthless needing to be fired so quickly.
From June 11, 2007
the other Greg Childers Wrote:I love Tommy for what he's done for the football program. Taking the team to three consecutive bowls, when they haven't been to one in 30 years, is grounds for nominating him to the University of Memphis Athletics Hall of Fame.
That being said, 2-10 just isn't pretty. I know he was disappointed and will do everything he can to pull the team back up. With the (cupcake) schedule the shakeup on the staff, it's obvious he wasn't satisfied with last year's results. He deserves the benefit of the doubt.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Billy J. Murphy 91-44-1 0.673
Ralph Hatley 59-43-5 0.575
Zach Curlin 43-61-14 0.424
Tommy West 34-38-0 0.472
Tommy is already 4th on the all-time coaching wins list at the University.
Ten more and he moves up to third. 26 more and he moves up to second.
He's also only the fourth coach in university history to last more than six years.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:I gave him a mulligan for the 2-10 season. He earned that.
When he blew four games to teams he should've beat, he lost the benefit of the doubt. Only UCF and ECU outclassed us. The others are inexcusable. Several times after a loss this season, Tommy seemed totally dumbfounded on the postgame show.
Quote:Based on how PATHETIC our football program has been since the first season in 1912, he could make it to the HOF. It doesn't negate the fact, he's blown some games he should've won. Getting blown off the field by Cincinnati in 2004 was embarrassing. Even before DeAngelo Williams broke his leg in Mobile, we were getting waxed by Bowling Green. Going 1-6 against a really bad UAB program was awful. Going 0fer against Coach O at Mississippi made you want to cry.
Even Larry Finch was deserving of the Tiger Hall of Fame, and he was fired.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to move to the next level.
There. Fixed it for you.
Thank you Greg. Just remember that next time pick just pieces of what someone says to quote.
And you don't trust me because I don't drink beer? That's just plain weird. But hey, it's all good, you're entitled to your opinion.
Here's wishing you a Happy and Prosperous New Year Greg!
georgiatiger Wrote:tigertommy Wrote:Hudgens only shot at QB is if our WRs learn to catch the ball with their feet.
Brutal but funny and I'm pming the mods to make you remove that sig.
Hey, that dog is smarter than you and is nicer than you. Sorry you can't handle it.
And probably better looking than you, Tommy.
TOGC, I am still waiting for the answer on a coach. Convince me, show me the list of coaches that could do such an incredible job at Memphis.
Why is it whenever people try to get you to answer this question, you seem to either disappear or start a new thread saying basically the same thing. I have told you why I believe he is at least a pretty decent coach and yet you have shown me nothing.
Finding a coach that could have won 7 games this year is easy.
That is not what has been asked. He is wanting a coach that can take us to BcS bowls and be nationally ranked (apparently on a regular basis) and I have simply asked for a list of coaches that he honestly believes would be willing to come here and could accomplish what he wants done.
Yes, there are quite a few coaches that might've won 7 games this year, but throw on everything this team has faced and well that number might drop quite a bit.
Tigernole, I'll answer for TOGC:
Here are 4 coaches that could take us 'to the next level.' In my definition, the next level = CUSA division title. That's all. And, TW should have at least 1 within 9 years.
When you're the 3rd highest paid coach in C-USA and you haven't come home with 1 - just 1 - C-USA division title in 9 years, then I think it's time to move on. That's why I'm giving TW two more years.
Here's the list of 4 candidates that could excite the fanbase and perhaps take us to the next level:
Trooper Taylor, Larry Porter, Joker Phillips and Jeff Bower (one year removed from winning the C-USA Eastern Division title).
I have no idea whether any of those 4 could get us into a BCS conference, in fact that's pretty unlikely. But, I can say that TOGC brings up some very interesting points about the falling attendance. 1/3rd full Liberty Bowls are not going to get us into an OCS, let alone the BCS.
These next couple of years are absolutely critical to the success of our University. I think TOGC's sentiments are in the right place and his sense of urgency (some may call it obsession) stems from the fact that we are not really in a position to tread water while UCF/ECU and others are actively trying to position themselves for a Big East invite.
ddramone Wrote:These next couple of years are absolutely critical to the success of our University. I think TOGC's sentiments are in the right place and his sense of urgency (some may call it obsession) stems from the fact that we are not really in a position to tread water while UCF/ECU and others are actively trying to position themselves for a Big East invite.
I don't know a Tiger football fan that does not agree with that. Firing and hiring coaches is not the remedy. That is all I have been trying to say. We may have something coming around the bend that will help. All of this Tommy Talk does not.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.
And the next step is apologizing to all those you have offended.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:Memphis Tigers home attendance (football):
2003 - 40,622
2004 - 41,175
2005 - 39,991
2006 - 32,440
2007 - 29,670
Points scored minus points allowed for each of the last seven years:
2001 (+13)
2002 (-24)
2003 (+143)
2004 (+55)
2005 (+50)
2006 (-84)
2007 (-39)
Sagarin College football rankings (includes both D1A and D1AA teams):
2000 - 103
2001 - 90
2002 - 104
2003 - 60
2004 - 75
2005 - 70
2006 - 135
2007 - 123
Sagarin is a load of crap. NO WAY we were as bad as 75th in 2004. I will never believe that.
k2tigers Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.
And the next step is apologizing to all those you have offended.
So this means everyone is ready to apologize?
Chi-Town Wrote:the other Greg Childers Wrote:missjtiger, RandyMc, UMTigerfan, tigerjeb, TigerBill......would you like to contribute to the honest, intelligent debate?
I told you to add me to your list.
When is someone intelligent coming by this thread to discuss this with us?
I'm here.
the other Greg Childers Wrote:calfan1 Wrote:Look Im not ready to fire Tommy just yet. Nor do I think he should be extended until he gets us to the next level which is IMO a division title. Without a doubt TW needs to do a better job on defense, special teams and recruiting. Also if he is being hampered by our administration whether it be RC or Dr Raines he should do like Cal does and hit the fedexes and other big boosters for support. Without a doubt the buck stops with tommy, but right now this university cant afford a buyout if we can afford any upgrades
Based on public statements, it appears that Dr. Raines and RC are not in any hurry to upgrade the facilities. I strongly agree that we need to keep pressure on them to give the football team the same level of commitment as they have for the basketball team. Money doesn't guarantee anything, as teams with smaller budgets have beaten us several times this year, but it is a step in the right direction.
Do you think TW is coasting because he sees what the admin. is doing for BB and not doing for FB and so he says "what does it matter if we win or loose? We saw what a great season (2003 or 2004) got from the admin. What difference does it make?"
My assessment of the problem is strictly defence. Either not enough heart to sacrifice the body on tough hits and tackles, and/or not enough smarts on the 2ndary to play the receivers correctly (i.e. looking back for the pass, playing man instead of zone). And not the right schemes called for the defence (no blitzing on FAU, no "head hunter" on that Fing QB).
the other Greg Childers Wrote:calfan1 Wrote:TigerBill Wrote:calfan1 Wrote:Look Im not ready to fire Tommy just yet. Nor do I think he should be extended until he gets us to the next level which is IMO a division title. Without a doubt TW needs to do a better job on defense, special teams and recruiting. Also if he is being hampered by our administration whether it be RC or Dr Raines he should do like Cal does and hit the fedexes and other big boosters for support. Without a doubt the buck stops with tommy, but right now this university cant afford a buyout if we can afford any upgrades
This is where I stand with one exception: you have to extend the coach or he cannot recruit. I suggest you rework the buyout as part of the extension.And I think our big supporters are about big supported out unless it's for something special, like an OCS.
Instead of extension I should have said raise. I think 900K is enough. Now maybe assistants salaries should be addressed but I am not privy to the amount they are being paid. Seems like we have a lot of assistant turnover every year which may be the main problem with recruiting although IMO we have been lazy in the last few years especially the last 2 deangelo years
I've heard that we have been less than generous with our assistant coaches' salaries, and that definitely needs to be addressed.
At the same time, the program is losing money due to decreased ticket sales. Except for the hardcore base, the average fan has lost interest in the program and something has to be done to increase attendance at the games. Winning usually cures everything, but we lost attendance this year even with an improvement over last year's 2-10 record.
We've GOT to get some big-time teams into the LB. And I don't mean UT.
tigernole79 Wrote:And probably better looking than you, Tommy.
TOGC, I am still waiting for the answer on a coach. Convince me, show me the list of coaches that could do such an incredible job at Memphis.
Why is it whenever people try to get you to answer this question, you seem to either disappear or start a new thread saying basically the same thing. I have told you why I believe he is at least a pretty decent coach and yet you have shown me nothing.
I'm sorry if I haven't been speedy with my responses. I had other things to do today. And I haven't started any new threads other than this one.
To say I've shown nothing proves you haven't read this thread at all.
As for coaches, how about Skip Holtz, Jeff Bower, June Jones, Bronco Mendenhall, Brian Kelley, Chris Petersen, Larry Blakeney, Kyle Whittingham, Dennis Franchione, Chan Gailey, Jimbo Fisher, Joker Phillips, Bud Foster, Greg Davis, Norm Chow, Jim Heacock, Terry Malone?
I'm sure you'll find reasons why each one is bad.
Of this list:
Skip Holtz, Jeff Bower, June Jones, Bronco Mendenhall, Brian Kelley, Chris Petersen, Larry Blakeney, Kyle Whittingham, Dennis Franchione, Chan Gailey, Jimbo Fisher, Joker Phillips, Bud Foster, Greg Davis, Norm Chow, Jim Heacock, Terry Malone
There's no way Skip Holtz/June Jones/Bronco Mendenhall/Brian Kelley/Chris Petersen/Kyle Whittingham/Jimbo Fisher (especially, he is the official heir apparent at FSU)/Norm Chow would leave their current positions.
I am not certain that Franchione would be any better than TW at this point in his career. Plus, Franchione's personality isn't going to ingratiate himself to the big $$$ people. Chan Gailey is another guy I am not sold on.
Bower is a guy who would probably take this job and LOVE to beat USM to show them what a huge mistake they made. Joker Phillips is a head coach waiting to happen and can recruit, same with Larry Porter (not on your list).
ddramone Wrote:There's no way Skip Holtz/June Jones/Bronco Mendenhall/Brian Kelley/Chris Petersen/Kyle Whittingham/Jimbo Fisher (especially, he is the official heir apparent at FSU)/Norm Chow would leave their current positions.
Some of them might leave, considering they'd get a raise if they did it.
You guys are flat ignoring one simple fact about hiring another coach if TW was fired tomorrow. It is actually kind of funny that you just don't get it. You won't get a good coach in here ala old mrs if you fire a coach after a bowl year. Hell, even a year after a bowl year. Coaches won't take the Memphis job if winning isn't good enough. Can you not see that? Or do you just want to have something so bad you refuse to accept truth. It is one thing to have a legit beef. It is another just to throw crap out there without any acceptance of facts and real situations.
And no if you're not helping with the bills you should keep your damn mouth shut about who's running the ship. I just shake my head and laugh at any idiot who hasn't supported this program finacially over the past 10 years expecting to say crap like you're saying and truly expect reasonable people to accept it or even listen to what you've got to say. It has nothing to do with being a fan, it has everything to do with helping.
I gave you facts. I made NO assumptions in those statements. Yet you twisted it to fit your need despite any actual truths. You even belittled the effects of the death of player/friend on 19-21 year old kids playing an emotional game. You sir are a fool with a keyboard. That's as kind as I can be.
Oh, and as far as the folks you met in Cincy. I know you have been able to find many of them anywhere but the Liberty Bowl on fall Saturdays for years so it isn't that unusual.
I agree that it is not the time to fire Tommy. But we must understand that this team has gotten progressively worse since 03.
No, this years team was no better than last years. I don't care what bowl we embarrassed ourselves in.
Changes must be made. A new recruiting coordinator? special teams coach? something, please?
I hate to fire the DC after one year, but man that was sad.
even in Rip's years here, our records were bad, but we competed. Seems more often than ever we just can't compete.