The movie is based on the book by Phillip Pullman, an atheist. Here is a small excerpt from an article about him and the movie which is now in theaters. It looks like "Narnia", but is far from it.
btw,
Screwtape referenced in the article is the name C.S. Lewis used for the devil in his book,
The Screwtape Letters.
He writes children’s literature that mocks God and ridicules church.... In Pullman’s universe, good and evil are reversed. God is the oppressor. Pullman portrays him as an angel created out of dust who lied to the angels that followed him in creation. His lie was that He claimed to be their creator. He got away with it until another angel questioned the lie.
Christians should be offended. Pullman’s plot is a blasphemy worthy of Screwtape himself. All Christians believe that God is not created, but the Creator. What the world now touts as bestselling children’s literature is, Christians believe, the very lie that motivated Lucifer and one-third of the angels to rebel against God....
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...al0331.htm
Okay . . . maybe we should put this under the religious forum.
SchlaflyTiger Wrote:Okay . . . maybe we should put this under the religious forum.
We have had movie reviews posted here for years.
The trailers and ads are deceiving in making this look like a
Narnia film, and appeals to children. Parents need to know. I'm sure alot of people will be surprised by the real intent of the movie.
Although I totally agree with the sentiments about the movie, I have to say this is one of the most well-organized boycott request email programs I have ever seen. I have recieved at least four copies of this similar email from my friends in the last few days.
TigerTitan Wrote:Although I totally agree with the sentiments about the movie, I have to say this is one of the most well-organized boycott request email programs I have ever seen. I have recieved at least four copies of this similar email from my friends in the last few days.
Me too. Just makes me want to see it and make my OWN mind up. It's a freakin movie, fake, fantasy, make believe. Will not change me, what I believe or who I am in any way.
Your link is to a Catholic website and we all know that Catholics are not Christians. Please amend your post.
TTTGal Wrote:SchlaflyTiger Wrote:Okay . . . maybe we should put this under the religious forum.
We have had movie reviews posted here for years.
The trailers and ads are deceiving in making this look like a Narnia film, and appeals to children. Parents need to know. I'm sure alot of people will be surprised by the real intent of the movie.
Psst: Just to let you know, everyone already knows the real intent of the movie. It's to make money.
fsquid Wrote:Your link is to a Catholic website and we all know that Catholics are not Christians. Please amend your post.
So, it's the source of the information that concerns you, NOT the actual information about the movie. Interesting. In the book, they "kill God" in the end.
You don't have see the movie to "judge for yourself", Chick. The book has said it all. Fantasy, fake, etc. I understand, but Pullman's books are written for children and are completely atheistic. No Christian should knowingly support movies/books like this.
fsquid, Nice way to highjack a thread, btw.
TTTGal Wrote:fsquid Wrote:Your link is to a Catholic website and we all know that Catholics are not Christians. Please amend your post.
So, it's the source of the information that concerns you, NOT the actual information about the movie. Interesting. In the book, they "kill God" in the end.
Yes, opinion piece by non-Christians.
fsquid Wrote:Your link is to a Catholic website and we all know that Catholics are not Christians. Please amend your post.
Sister Mary Darth Vader will be coming to see you... soon.
TigerChick Wrote:It's a freakin movie, fake, fantasy, make believe. Will not change me, what I believe or who I am in any way.
true, but you are not 10 years old.
Several key themes of the novels, the rejection of organized religion and the abuse of power in a fictionalized Catholic Church, are to be diluted in the adaptation. Director Weitz said "in the books the Magisterium is a version of the Catholic Church gone wildly astray from its roots" but that the organization portrayed in his film would not directly match that of Pullman's books. In an attempt to avoid a religious backlash, the Magisterium will instead be a critique of all dogmatic organizations.[30] Weitz said that New Line Cinema had feared the story's anti-religious themes would make the film financially unviable in the US, and so religion and God will not be referenced directly. Attempting to reassure fans of the novels, Weitz said that religion would instead appear in euphemistic terms, yet the decision has been attacked by some fans,[31] anti-censorship groups, and the National Secular Society (of which Pullman is an honorary associate), which said "they are taking the heart out of it, losing the point of it, castrating it",[32] "this is part of a long-term problem over freedom of speech." The changes from the novel have been present since Tom Stoppard's rejected version of the script,[22] and Pullman himself believes the film will be "faithful."[30]
As part of a two-month protest campaign, the Catholic League has called for a boycott of the film. They believe that while the religious elements of the film will be "watered down" from the source novels, it will still encourage children to read the series, which League president William A. Donohue says "denigrates Christianity" and promotes "atheism for kids",[4][33] citing author Pullman as saying that he is "trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."[34] It is the League's hope that "the film [will fail] to meet box office expectations and that [Pullman's] books attract few buyers."[35]
Director Weitz says that he believes His Dark Materials is "not an atheistic work, but a highly spiritual and reverent piece of writing",[31] and Nicole Kidman has defended her decision to star in the film, saying that "the Catholic Church is part of my essence. I wouldn't be able to do this film if I thought it were at all anti-Catholic".[23]
Some commentators have indicated they believe both sides' criticism will prove ultimately "impotent" and that the negative publicity will prove a boon for the film's box office,[36][37] while other evangelical groups, such as The Christian Film and Television Commission, are adopting a "wait-and-see" approach to the film before deciding upon any action.[38]
From Wikipedia
So the movie critizes the church(s) and people are against it. I still say it is a freakin' movie and honestly the Catholic church is not exactly above criticism. I just don't see the controversy and all the publicity is going to do is sell more tickets. I am Catholic and me watching this movie will not change who I am or what I believe or don't believe. As for parents, they should research EVERY movie their kids go see, I am all for that. I also think parents can use this stuff to educate their kids and teach them to be open miinded without changeing their faith.
UMTigerfan Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:It's a freakin movie, fake, fantasy, make believe. Will not change me, what I believe or who I am in any way.
true, but you are not 10 years old.
I totally agree. I watched an episode of Mary Tyler Moore when I was ten, and it messed with my head for about six years.
I do not want your Catholism anywhere near me or my child. Thank you for not sharing it on this board.
fsquid Wrote:I do not want your Catholism anywhere near me or my child. Thank you for not sharing it on this board.
Hey Squid. After that remark I know you are going to have a lot of us praying for you if you want it or not.
TTTGal Wrote:The movie is based on the book by Phillip Pullman, an atheist. Here is a small excerpt from an article about him and the movie which is now in theaters. It looks like "Narnia", but is far from it.
btw, Screwtape referenced in the article is the name C.S. Lewis used for the devil in his book, The Screwtape Letters.
He writes children’s literature that mocks God and ridicules church.... In Pullman’s universe, good and evil are reversed. God is the oppressor. Pullman portrays him as an angel created out of dust who lied to the angels that followed him in creation. His lie was that He claimed to be their creator. He got away with it until another angel questioned the lie.
Christians should be offended. Pullman’s plot is a blasphemy worthy of Screwtape himself. All Christians believe that God is not created, but the Creator. What the world now touts as bestselling children’s literature is, Christians believe, the very lie that motivated Lucifer and one-third of the angels to rebel against God....
Thanks for the heads up. I had no idea but since your posts I have read as much as I could about the author, the triolgy and this movie. What I thought was going to be another fantasy movie is in fact a calculated attack on people of faith and God.
My family will not go.
TTTGal Wrote:The movie is based on the book by Phillip Pullman, an atheist. Here is a small excerpt from an article about him and the movie which is now in theaters. It looks like "Narnia", but is far from it.
btw, Screwtape referenced in the article is the name C.S. Lewis used for the devil in his book, The Screwtape Letters.
He writes children’s literature that mocks God and ridicules church.... In Pullman’s universe, good and evil are reversed. God is the oppressor. Pullman portrays him as an angel created out of dust who lied to the angels that followed him in creation. His lie was that He claimed to be their creator. He got away with it until another angel questioned the lie.
Christians should be offended. Pullman’s plot is a blasphemy worthy of Screwtape himself. All Christians believe that God is not created, but the Creator. What the world now touts as bestselling children’s literature is, Christians believe, the very lie that motivated Lucifer and one-third of the angels to rebel against God....
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...al0331.htm
Excellent, can't wait to see it! Thanks.
TigerChick Wrote:TigerTitan Wrote:Although I totally agree with the sentiments about the movie, I have to say this is one of the most well-organized boycott request email programs I have ever seen. I have recieved at least four copies of this similar email from my friends in the last few days.
Me too. Just makes me want to see it and make my OWN mind up. It's a freakin movie, fake, fantasy, make believe. Will not change me, what I believe or who I am in any way.
Why you you be quoting Benjamin Franklin referring to God if you don't believe in God? Strange....
TIGERBUDDY Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:TigerTitan Wrote:Although I totally agree with the sentiments about the movie, I have to say this is one of the most well-organized boycott request email programs I have ever seen. I have recieved at least four copies of this similar email from my friends in the last few days.
Me too. Just makes me want to see it and make my OWN mind up. It's a freakin movie, fake, fantasy, make believe. Will not change me, what I believe or who I am in any way.
Why you you be quoting Benjamin Franklin referring to God if you don't believe in God? Strange....
Why do you think I do not believe in God? I do very much believe in God. God gave me a mind and intelligence, I am perfectly comfortable watching a movie and NOT changing my personal views or spirtual beliefs. I can also repsect views of others. Books and Movies are entertainment to me, there are a couple that mean more to me but nothing that would change or shake my faith.
Thanks TTTGal. I was unaware of this. I appreciate your word of warning. You have as much right to post this as anyone does anything here, and I appreciate you doing so.
I'm not much into religion, I'm into Jesus Christ, better yet, He is alive and dwelling within me. His Word is nourishment to my soul.
To anyone reading this thread, a Word of warning from The LORD, who cannot lie, and a promise to His faithful.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of ,that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." (II Peter 3)
fsquid Wrote:Your link is to a Catholic website and we all know that Catholics are not Christians. Please amend your post.
Catholics not Christians? wow - what some people will say.....lol
Whatever. It's a movie about a little girl and her pet polar bear. I guess you're going to try and tell me that The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe has some sort of religious theme to it as well.
klg316 Wrote:Whatever. It's a movie about a little girl and her pet polar bear. I guess you're going to try and tell me that The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe has some sort of religious theme to it as well.
Who wants to be the first to let klg316 in on the whole Narnia=Creationism/Aslan=The Holy Trinity thing?
I wouldn't spend a dime to patronize this anti-Christian and it's not because he's atheist, but because he's obviously, blatantly anti-Christian. Why work so hard to tear down the beliefs of others? He has a vendetta against the organized church. Does the Christian Church have it's faults? Yes. It's operated by humans, imperfect and fallible. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Jesus said go out and make disciples. Jesus didn't say go out and bring back church members. Jesus didn't instruct the disciples to create a church organization.
The Christian life is a good life. I respect every man's right to an opinion. The goal of Pullman's writing is to tear down church and the God concept. I can't support that.
klg316 Wrote:Whatever. It's a movie about a little girl and her pet polar bear. I guess you're going to try and tell me that The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe has some sort of religious theme to it as well.
sarcasm?
HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:Whatever. It's a movie about a little girl and her pet polar bear. I guess you're going to try and tell me that The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe has some sort of religious theme to it as well.
Who wants to be the first to let klg316 in on the whole Narnia=Creationism/Aslan=The Holy Trinity thing?
There is no magical wardrobe in Genesis so your assertion falls flat on its face. Also, what does a talking lion leading woodland critters to battle against the witch and her band of evil critters have to do with the Holy Trinity? I'd like to have some of whatever you are smoking.
fsquid Wrote:I do not want your Catholism anywhere near me or my child. Thank you for not sharing it on this board.
I have to agree with you there. I'd rather my children not get hooked up with a mega corporation that just moves molesting preists to other parts of the country everytime one is caught. It's all very cult like with the beads and chants but if scientology can somehow pull off the cult label I guess catholics deserve a break.
TTTGal Wrote:The movie is based on the book by Phillip Pullman, an atheist. Here is a small excerpt from an article about him and the movie which is now in theaters. It looks like "Narnia", but is far from it.
btw, Screwtape referenced in the article is the name C.S. Lewis used for the devil in his book, The Screwtape Letters.
He writes children’s literature that mocks God and ridicules church.... In Pullman’s universe, good and evil are reversed. God is the oppressor. Pullman portrays him as an angel created out of dust who lied to the angels that followed him in creation. His lie was that He claimed to be their creator. He got away with it until another angel questioned the lie.
Christians should be offended. Pullman’s plot is a blasphemy worthy of Screwtape himself. All Christians believe that God is not created, but the Creator. What the world now touts as bestselling children’s literature is, Christians believe, the very lie that motivated Lucifer and one-third of the angels to rebel against God....
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...al0331.htm
So, you've seen the movie?
klg316 Wrote:HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:Whatever. It's a movie about a little girl and her pet polar bear. I guess you're going to try and tell me that The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe has some sort of religious theme to it as well.
Who wants to be the first to let klg316 in on the whole Narnia=Creationism/Aslan=The Holy Trinity thing?
There is no magical wardrobe in Genesis so your assertion falls flat on its face. Also, what does a talking lion leading woodland critters to battle against the witch and her band of evil critters have to do with the Holy Trinity? I'd like to have some of whatever you are smoking.
You need to read the first book in the series then. The link to God and creationism is allegorical. LW&W is the second book (chronologically) in the series. Aslan created Narnia in "The Magician's Nephew", the first book in the series. In LW&W, Aslan watches over Narnia and is actively involved. Aslan gave himself to the witch for sacrifice on the stone table to atone for Edmund's wrongdoing. Aslan's death and resurrection made him even stronger, trumping evil in the process. Sound familiar? In later books, Aslan is more of a guiding spirit. The books are very entertaining children's books. Not quite as good as the Lord of the Rings saga (there's less complexity to Narnia), but definitely worth a read.
Derby Wrote:TTTGal Wrote:The movie is based on the book by Phillip Pullman, an atheist. Here is a small excerpt from an article about him and the movie which is now in theaters. It looks like "Narnia", but is far from it.
btw, Screwtape referenced in the article is the name C.S. Lewis used for the devil in his book, The Screwtape Letters.
He writes children’s literature that mocks God and ridicules church.... In Pullman’s universe, good and evil are reversed. God is the oppressor. Pullman portrays him as an angel created out of dust who lied to the angels that followed him in creation. His lie was that He claimed to be their creator. He got away with it until another angel questioned the lie.
Christians should be offended. Pullman’s plot is a blasphemy worthy of Screwtape himself. All Christians believe that God is not created, but the Creator. What the world now touts as bestselling children’s literature is, Christians believe, the very lie that motivated Lucifer and one-third of the angels to rebel against God....
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...al0331.htm
So, you've seen the movie?
Of course not. I won't see it. It somes out in Dec. actually. Why would I, as a Christian, give money to a project based on a series of books written by an atheist, who is out to kill God, and "save children from Christianity?" My family and I will not support such blasphemy against Our Lord.
Many say it's just a book and not real...fantasy..etc. That is true, BUT clearly, Pullman's main objective is to bash Christianity and promote atheism. Pullman actualy said in a 2003 interview that "my books are about killing God." He has even stated that he wants to "kill God in the minds of children". It has been said of Pullman that he is "the writer the atheists would be praying for, if atheists prayed."
Good grief folks. Get over your frigging bible. Either follow it to the letter or realize it is all open for interpretation which can be read and observed differently by two people reading the same thing.
Same thing goes with this movie. Let it be.
Read some of this HS that the bible tells you in the first 5 books alone.......
God created us with instinct, rebellion, and curiosity. Soon he punishes us for only doing what is part of our nature. Genesis 2:16.47
God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16
God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no attempt at justification. This act of favoritism led to Abel’s death. Genesis 4:3-5
Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.
God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9
Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.
Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him. How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord. Genesis 38:7
Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.
Exodus 12:29 God repeatedly tells Moses exactly what calamity he will next visit upon the Egyptians if the Pharaoh does not allow the Israelites to be set free from slavery. Then he tells Moses (also repeatedly) that he will harden Pharaoh’s heart, so that he will refuse to allow the Israelites to go, thus bringing a calamity upon his own people, as well as showing him the awesome power of the Israelites’ Lord. This occurs over and over, bringing calamity upon calamity upon the Egyptian people. What is troubling about this verse is that when god “hardens the pharaoh’s heart” he is interfering with the Pharaoh’s free will and ultimately bringing punishment on the Egyptians for something they are not responsible for. As a final punishment god decides to kill all the first born of Egypt. The lord reduced himself to murdering innocent kids when he could have simply freed the Israelites himself with his “omnipotent” power.
God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, unto the third and fourth generations. Punishing a child for the sins of their ancestors is not very just. Exodus 20:5&34:7
God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be carried out, and goes as far as Okaying beating them. Exodus 21:2-6
God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter. How can any being tell another to literally sell their child into slavery? Disgusting! Exodus 21:7
Exodus 22:18 God orders the death of witches, sorceresses and anyone who practices magic. Sadly enough, this verse was justification for the Inquisition.
Exodus 32:27 God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater crime than worshipping a golden calf. I don’t know about you but death is a pretty harsh ******* punishment.
Leviticus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents and death for adultery. Gee, with these types of laws the population should be almost nil by now.
Once again god is a homophobe, or at the very least, a bigot. Leviticus 20:13
Handicapped people must not approach the altar. Leviticus 21:16-23
Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shill ye eat.”
Leviticus 27:28-29 God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.
Numbers 16:27 God buries alive Korah and his family.
Numbers 16:35 God killed 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses’ leadership. He was so bloodthirsty that he wanted to slay more until he was talked out of it. Later he put a plague upon 14,700 Jews who thought there was something wrong in killing 250 princes.
Numbers 21:1-3 God utterly destroyed the Canaanites at Hormah as a favor to the Jews.
Numbers 21:27-35 God abetted Moses in utterly destroying the Amorites at Heshbon - “…the men, the women, and the little ones.”
Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be saved for later raping by Moses’ soldiers.
Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses’ army to “utterly destroy” 60 cities, killing all the women and children within!
Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations. He even adds, “show no mercy unto them”.
Deuteronomy 20:16 God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the cities that he gives us for an inheritance
A bastard can’t attend church “even to his tenth generation.” As if denying an innocent child rights to worship isn’t cruel. Deuteronomy 23:2
WHEW!!!!! I now realize I need to own slaves and beat them along with killing all homosexuals. I also need to either sacrafice my children or just kill them because they like to play witch games after watching Harry Potter....
Oh, some say those parts of the bible should not be taken seriously....WTF said that? Does it say, "Just kidding, LOL..yuck, yuck" anywhere in the bible after spewing some of this??
Get over it folks! We would all be better off if everyone kept their faith to themselves and didn't take it so damn seriously.
well, this thread sure brought out the crazies.
Yes it does seem crazy to get so wound up in a book with so much craziness in it.
burn the crazy book with crazy matches!
I guess you've decided to make this a discussion of the Bible. It started off as a pointed critique of a movie that hasn't been released yet. No one's bashing Pullman's atheism. Speaking for myself, I am criticizing Pullman's desire to tear down the Christian faith. He's putting his destructive opinions out there, so others on the receiving end of his vitriol are taking the opportunity to criticize his work.
So TigerTommy, you march out a bunch of contextual anomalies in the Old Testament. That's a very often used argument. I'm sure you're looking for a heated argument. You're probably not interested in a rational response but here's my take on your approach...
The writing, editing and compilation of the Bible was inspired by God. Still, the Bible was written by humans, edited by humans and compiled by humans. The writing of the Bible is limited by culture, customs and world view. Jesus' speech and works helps us decipher the Old Testament. As discriminating individuals, we can analyze the context of the writings in the Old Testament and understand that the cultural or personal experience of the writer could cloud the message that God conveys through the writer. Jesus' message was more simple and could be summed up in two commandments: Love God. Love one another.
The ultimate authority of the Bible rests in God.
You don't have to agree with me, but insults aren't necessary.
I'll never understand atheists who proselytize. The message often seems to be tied up in an unhealthy and obsessive desire to be right, much like the most extreme and judgemental fundamentalists of all religions.
Christians whose faith is based in good news of God's love (rather than a pseudo-faith based on a sense of personal superiority, which some "Christians" certainly display) can't help telling other people what a difference it makes in their lives to trust in God.
On the other hand, I can't see the good news in trusting in nothing but cynicism and humanity (which will fail you more often than not). I understand that's what some people feel, but I can't see the motivation for trying actively to spread it, other than to ridicule people of faith, or to revel in a sense of being somehow smarter than people of faith.
and HHammerhead gives a very concise and good description of the Bible. Not everyone would agree, I'm sure, but I approve.
I hesitate to get into that any more, because it is my field, and I could go on wayyy too long, and I have mostly given up debating NTR things over here, because I'd rather come here for a break, and to enjoy the Tigers!
No, I am not looking for a heated arguement. I just post facts about how many things have been found to be BS in the bible. The vatican shapes and molds their view however they want to. Why is it so hard to think that much more of it could be BS since so much of it already is thought to be...... or should we still own slaves and make our women go into the forest for 5 days when they are having their time of the month? lol
Teaching kids and people to do the right thing just because it is right is much better than wrapping it into some book written by many men over many year. The Koran is just another example.
No insult there. JMO.
tigertommy Wrote:No, I am not looking for a heated arguement. I just post facts about how many things have been found to be BS in the bible. The vatican shapes and molds their view however they want to. Why is it so hard to think that much more of it could be BS since so much of it already is thought to be...... or should we still own slaves and make our women go into the forest for 5 days when they are having their time of the month? lol
Teaching kids and people to do the right thing just because it is right is much better than wrapping it into some book written by many men over many year. The Koran is just another example.
No insult there. JMO.
Fortunately, most of us don't follow ancient Judaic practices. We've come a long way since then. We also don't believe that the world is flat. Christianity has evolved quite a bit over the last 2000 years, and it's certainly evolved from Judaic customs. Heck, Christianity has evolved A LOT since the dark ages and the Inquisition. There's a significant "dark past" with Christianity. Does it mean that it's all bad? No.... Lots of people do their best to screw up a good thing.
It's been discussed before, but if you analyze Islam and compare it to Christianity, chronologically speaking you could parallel the timing of the Spanish Inquisition to the timing of today's struggle for the identity of Islam (when you compare these to the birth of each religion). Islam is a valid faith. Those that wish to control Islam have quite a bit of fighting and arguing left to do to resolve their differences.
I would encourage folks to take the Bible in context. Study it not only as the Word of God, but also as a historical document. Making soundbites out of it is a great way to ridicule it. That's not the way it was intended to be used.
You still base a lot of your faith in that book though. If it was just old oddball thought about women going off into the woods once a month then it is conceivable that Adam ate the apple but with men in control the story was turned around. Or that there was no apple or creation but a man made the story up to keep women down and try to explain where we came from. The bible shows many of god's flaws if it really happened the way the book says. The story of Job is probably the saddest thing I have ever read.
I just wish people would stop debating Jesus, religion, the Bible and who is right or wrong and just for once live the way Jesus asked us to. His message was to love one another as ourselves and to serve others. Forget who is right and wrong or even what you believe or do not believe about Jesus, the Bible or religion and follow his message, then all of these debates would be moot!
TigerChick Wrote:I just wish people would stop debating Jesus, religion, the Bible and who is right or wrong and just for once live the way Jesus asked us to. His message was to love one another as ourselves and to serve others. Forget who is right and wrong or even what you believe or do not believe about Jesus, the Bible or religion and follow his message, then all of these debates would be moot!
My point essentially. Treat people right and do the right things and forget about what religion anybody is.
TigerChick Wrote:I just wish people would stop debating Jesus, religion, the Bible and who is right or wrong and just for once live the way Jesus asked us to.
You mean like Jesus did when he was 12 years old in the temple with the priests and rabbis?
Or when he was 33 and cleared the temple of those that were desecrating it?
Quote:His message was to love one another as ourselves and to serve others. Forget who is right and wrong or even what you believe or do not believe about Jesus, the Bible or religion and follow his message, then all of these debates would be moot!
Jesus died for a principle that God deemed as right. It demeans that sacrifice to consider what is right or wrong as moot or inconsequential.
How does one follow God's message if right and wrong does not matter? Is He that equivacable?
It is not necessary to deny first principles just because an irreligious libertine makes fun of and denies faith. He is the one that has to toss and turn at night. God help him find the answers he denies.
HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:Whatever. It's a movie about a little girl and her pet polar bear. I guess you're going to try and tell me that The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe has some sort of religious theme to it as well.
Who wants to be the first to let klg316 in on the whole Narnia=Creationism/Aslan=The Holy Trinity thing?
There is no magical wardrobe in Genesis so your assertion falls flat on its face. Also, what does a talking lion leading woodland critters to battle against the witch and her band of evil critters have to do with the Holy Trinity? I'd like to have some of whatever you are smoking.
You need to read the first book in the series then. The link to God and creationism is allegorical. LW&W is the second book (chronologically) in the series. Aslan created Narnia in "The Magician's Nephew", the first book in the series. In LW&W, Aslan watches over Narnia and is actively involved. Aslan gave himself to the witch for sacrifice on the stone table to atone for Edmund's wrongdoing. Aslan's death and resurrection made him even stronger, trumping evil in the process. Sound familiar? In later books, Aslan is more of a guiding spirit. The books are very entertaining children's books. Not quite as good as the Lord of the Rings saga (there's less complexity to Narnia), but definitely worth a read.
I must have missed the part of the Bible where it said that God was a talking lion.
klg316 Wrote:HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:Whatever. It's a movie about a little girl and her pet polar bear. I guess you're going to try and tell me that The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe has some sort of religious theme to it as well.
Who wants to be the first to let klg316 in on the whole Narnia=Creationism/Aslan=The Holy Trinity thing?
There is no magical wardrobe in Genesis so your assertion falls flat on its face. Also, what does a talking lion leading woodland critters to battle against the witch and her band of evil critters have to do with the Holy Trinity? I'd like to have some of whatever you are smoking.
You need to read the first book in the series then. The link to God and creationism is allegorical. LW&W is the second book (chronologically) in the series. Aslan created Narnia in "The Magician's Nephew", the first book in the series. In LW&W, Aslan watches over Narnia and is actively involved. Aslan gave himself to the witch for sacrifice on the stone table to atone for Edmund's wrongdoing. Aslan's death and resurrection made him even stronger, trumping evil in the process. Sound familiar? In later books, Aslan is more of a guiding spirit. The books are very entertaining children's books. Not quite as good as the Lord of the Rings saga (there's less complexity to Narnia), but definitely worth a read.
I must have missed the part of the Bible where it said that God was a talking lion.
I guess that allegory is beyond your intellectual capability. ...or am I missing the book of Narnia from my Bible?
HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:HHammerhead Wrote:klg316 Wrote:Whatever. It's a movie about a little girl and her pet polar bear. I guess you're going to try and tell me that The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe has some sort of religious theme to it as well.
Who wants to be the first to let klg316 in on the whole Narnia=Creationism/Aslan=The Holy Trinity thing?
There is no magical wardrobe in Genesis so your assertion falls flat on its face. Also, what does a talking lion leading woodland critters to battle against the witch and her band of evil critters have to do with the Holy Trinity? I'd like to have some of whatever you are smoking.
You need to read the first book in the series then. The link to God and creationism is allegorical. LW&W is the second book (chronologically) in the series. Aslan created Narnia in "The Magician's Nephew", the first book in the series. In LW&W, Aslan watches over Narnia and is actively involved. Aslan gave himself to the witch for sacrifice on the stone table to atone for Edmund's wrongdoing. Aslan's death and resurrection made him even stronger, trumping evil in the process. Sound familiar? In later books, Aslan is more of a guiding spirit. The books are very entertaining children's books. Not quite as good as the Lord of the Rings saga (there's less complexity to Narnia), but definitely worth a read.
I must have missed the part of the Bible where it said that God was a talking lion.
I guess that allegory is beyond your intellectual capability. ...or am I missing the book of Narnia from my Bible?
It looks like someone is reading way too much into a childrens' book. Next thing you're probably going to try and tell me is that Edmund's betrayal of his siblings is similar to Judas' betrayal of Jesus.
Another review:
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Will your kid discover his personal 'daemon'?
Posted: November 7, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Linda Harvey
"Guess what? I have my own demon!"
That's what some children may soon be telling – or not telling – their parents, encouraged by the movie "The Golden Compass," starring Nicole Kidman, which opens Dec. 7. Chances are your child's friends will be rushing to see it, but parents: beware.
In this movie, every human has a personal "daemon" (pronounced, yes, "dee-mon"), and on the film's official website, you can "Meet Your Daemon," which happens after one answers a questionnaire. The site explains that these daemons take the form of an animal and represent a person's soul living outside one's body.
And that's just for starters. As the pagan worldview continues, much of action in the film centers around a golden compass, which is a tool of divination. Only the girl heroine, Lyra, knows how to interpret its mysterious signs and symbols. A colorful representation of this device is featured on the film's website to further intrigue our youngsters, and plans are in the works for a toy replica. Soon, adoring fans can be seers right in their own bedrooms.
This lavish production has Oscar written all over it. Based on the novel by Philip Pullman, "The Golden Compass" is an epic of global power struggles with hostility toward Christianity at the center. Pullman has been quoted in interviews as saying he is an atheist, but that label is highly misleading. There is spirituality here, and it's as blatantly occult as it gets.
Pullman's tales combine clever plots grounded in dark nihilism with a default pagan cosmology. Everyone believes in something, and Pullman does, too, whether he will admit it or not. The plot revolves around spiritism, magical thinking, mysterious visions, parallel worlds, and yet as always with pagan beliefs, they come off as glitteringly empty. The lonely hopelessness of the child characters in the book made me want to jump off a cliff, and that's a researching adult's reaction. How would a vulnerable child feel?
The main character, Lyra, is a neglected pre-teen girl (played in the movie by Dakota Blue Richards), raising herself while residing among the scholars at Oxford University, in a world with similarities to early 20th century Britain. Lord Asriel (played by actor Daniel Craig) is her "uncle" who turns out to be her father, a powerful scholar/explorer researching the spiritual/molecular phenomenon of something called Dust. A cold, egotistical man, he pops in and out of Lyra's life as does her glamorous, calculating mother, Mrs. Coulter (Nicole Kidman).
These two conceived Lyra in an adulterous union while Mrs. Coulter was married to another man. She became a widow when Asriel killed her former husband. Somehow, Mrs. Coulter still heads a shady agency of the ruling religious Magisterium. This group kidnaps children and in an Arctic laboratory performs experiments related to Dust, which we learn is the same as Original Sin, only in measurable particles. Children have little of it; after puberty, humans start attracting Dust.
Meanwhile, Asriel has also traveled far north while researching Dust and has been captured by a kingdom of armored bears. (Don't you just hate it when that happens?) So Lyra sets out toward the Arctic with a team of explorers to try to find the children and her father. She discovers the children are being horribly mutilated and killed. The mutilation? They are severed from their precious animal "daemons." And, naturally, the "Christian" church is behind it! Like ripping away the pagan version of teddy bears from little kids. Yes, my church does that to any child we can find – how about yours?
And poor Lyra's heart breaks as she learns about the involvement of both her mother and father in these gruesome experiments on children in the name of science fiction. These are your "Golden Compass" family values.
The ruling Magisterium answers to a not-so-powerful god. From the get-go, the Magisterium and its deity are the enemy. Somehow, young Lyra is destined to contend with this body in a future contest, and for those unfortunate enough to read this book and its sequels, we learn her "destiny" is to be the new Eve who will overturn the myth that sin is bad.
The plot element that will resonate the most with youth, however, is the animal "daemons." Traditional witches call these "familiars," and it seems the same here. The talking daemon animal has its own name and reflects its human's personality. Lyra's daemon, Pantalaimon, is ever-changing since she's still a child. Nicole Kidman has a golden monkey daemon, Lyra's father a white snow leopard. The website highlights this theme and kids are sure to be enchanted, literally.
Welcome, children, to Paganism 101, as you learn to worship animal spirits and shape-shifters.
I don't see the big deal. Granted, I never read nor have I heard of the books, but they look like pure fantasy and if a child is able to understand the allegory involved in the story, he or she is able to make up their own mind on religion. The whole argument against this movie reminds me of parents not allowing their kids to watch Harry Potter because it contains magic.
