It goes on and on ...
Open doors and just let everyone play
Hey, look. I've got mail:
Dear Geoff,
As a former SEC football player (2001-04), I take exception to your article about Jerrell Powe and the hypocrisy of college football. You write, 'Why not say that any player who has a high school diploma or a GED can play college football, so long as he makes satisfactory progress once he arrives at school?' So anyone who wants to go to college football ought to be afforded that privilege? Your language actually removes the privilege altogether and makes it one's right to attend college, particularly if you're a skilled athlete.
Kyle York
Dear Kyle,
It's darn refreshing to get a note like this from a Division 1 football player. If every Division 1 football player had the same perspective on education, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Dear Geoff,
I am writing this as a consolation for my wife. She threatened to find you and let's just say that when she was finished with you, you could claim any number of disabilities and be accurate. Whether I agree or disagree with your article (I actually agree with your premise and also most of the article) I do think I owe it to Michael (Oher) and even Jerrell (Powe) to at least take a shot at some reason as it pertains to disabilities.
The world of disabilities is not only complicated but it is also legitimate. Those of us that were blessed with all the advantages will never know the difficulties of life when forced to face every day with a disability. The fact (is) that Michael made the Chancellor's list (3.75 GPA) last year and that his cumulative GPA is well above where mine was after my sophomore year. So here's to those universities (Ole Miss being one of them) that choose to work with learning-disabled students, athletes and non-athletes, as opposed to just questioning their legitimacy.
Sean Tuohy
Dear Sean,
I don't question Michael's disability. I don't question your wife's ability to tear me limb from limb, either.
It wasn't me who referred to disabilities as a "loophole." That language came straight from "The Blind Side." And while Michael -- and Jerrell, for that matter -- may have a legitimate disability, too many coaches see the LD label as a way to get unqualified kids into school. That only hurts kids with legitimate learning disabilities, doesn't it?
So I say let everybody in. Stop the search for loopholes to begin with. Some players will fail, naturally. Others, like Michael, will use the opportunity to accomplish things they never thought possible.
Dear Geoff,
As I was reading your article this morning, I could not believe that you actually brought Memphis' football team into the mix with programs like Ole Miss and Tennessee.
As a former player and supporter of the University of Memphis football program, I can assure you that Memphis is not even in the same league with Ole Miss and Tennessee when it comes to selling your soul for a few wins.
Kevin Bohannon
Dear Kevin,
That's exactly why I included Memphis and Tennessee in a column about an Ole Miss football player. Because I knew that somewhere out there, a delusional fan would say "At least it doesn't happen at my school."
It happens at your school, Kevin. It happens at every school.
Dear Geoff,
Your colleague, Mr. (Gary) Parrish, physically visited Laurinburg Prep and reported that it was NOT a diploma mill. Why on earth do you feel the need to drag the players that attended there under the same bus as Powe?
Mark Moser
Dear Mark,
I'm not throwing anyone under a bus. I'm proposing we recognize that the athletic admissions process is corrupt and admit any player with a high school diploma or a GED. But I talked to Gary Parrish on Wednesday -- he's now the national college basketball columnist for CBS SportsLine.com -- and he said the "diploma mill" characterization was fair. No, Laurinburg didn't just hand out grades. But it was a place where a staggering number of Division 1 basketball players went to repair their transcripts. As Gary put it, "My understanding is that the staff fully recognized why some of its students were enrolled, and if a prospect needed a 'B' to get qualified then -- unless he truly fought authority -- he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever. Truth is, I'm not sure that's a bad thing because I'll forever insist whatever Shawne Williams did at Laurinburg was infinitely better than what he was doing at Hamilton High. But let's not be naive. With few exceptions, when a prospect heads to prep school it is to transform from a non-qualifier to a qualifier, and Laurinburg allowed countless players to do just that. As Coach Cal would say, "it is what it is."
Dear Geoff,
I am an avid Rebel fan living in Nebraska and have watched the Powe situation with great interest. It is my hope that Powe emerges with a college degree, a fine All-American college career, a national championship ring bearing a diamond encrusted UM, and all that capped by the NFL hall of fame. Nevertheless, his experience calls to mind the hundreds of thousands of poor students, black and white, across the South and the nation, who have no stellar athletic skills to keep them over and above the boardwalk. What will represent their safety net comparable to football for Jerrell Powe?
Your column was an Ahab-sized harpoon aimed at the twin carotids and arrogance and hypocrisy that is the NCAA and all of college football, including myself the fan.
Michael Mallory
Dear Michael
Well, thanks for the gracious note. Now -- speaking of education -- I have to go look up the meaning of "carotids."
To reach Geoff Calkins, call him at 529-2364 or Email (search for Calkins)
Sean Touhy is a ******* jerkoff hypocrite. Him and his psycho wife had 3 years with Oher and he still couldn't read. That's great parenting right there. You have a kid that goes from not being able to read his entire life to being an honour roll student at Ole Piss. When did Saint Touhy decide that Oher had a learning disability and that it was time to learn how to read?
About 5 minutes after he couldn't cheat to get him into Ole Piss.
Quote:Gary Parrish on Wednesday -- he's now the national college basketball columnist for CBS SportsLine.com -- and he said the "diploma mill" characterization was fair. No, Laurinburg didn't just hand out grades. But it was a place where a staggering number of Division 1 basketball players went to repair their transcripts. As Gary put it, "My understanding is that the staff fully recognized why some of its students were enrolled, and if a prospect needed a 'B' to get qualified then -- unless he truly fought authority -- he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever. Truth is, I'm not sure that's a bad thing because I'll forever insist whatever Shawne Williams did at Laurinburg was infinitely better than what he was doing at Hamilton High. But let's not be naive. With few exceptions, when a prospect heads to prep school it is to transform from a non-qualifier to a qualifier, and Laurinburg allowed countless players to do just that. As Coach Cal would say, "it is what it is."
So....how would all of you that were jumping up and down about the 'factual inaccuracies' yesterday like your crow....fried, grilled?
So now is Gary a 'moron' too?
Truth is, Calkins hit the nail on the head (again) and most here are concerned that Memphis was 'lumped in' with schools like Ole Miss and UT.
Isn't that what we are aspiring to be like? If we want that BCS check, and everything that goes with it, are we willing to pay that price?
There's a cost to be the boss.
madtiger Wrote:Quote:Gary Parrish on Wednesday -- he's now the national college basketball columnist for CBS SportsLine.com -- and he said the "diploma mill" characterization was fair. No, Laurinburg didn't just hand out grades. But it was a place where a staggering number of Division 1 basketball players went to repair their transcripts. As Gary put it, "My understanding is that the staff fully recognized why some of its students were enrolled, and if a prospect needed a 'B' to get qualified then -- unless he truly fought authority -- he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever. Truth is, I'm not sure that's a bad thing because I'll forever insist whatever Shawne Williams did at Laurinburg was infinitely better than what he was doing at Hamilton High. But let's not be naive. With few exceptions, when a prospect heads to prep school it is to transform from a non-qualifier to a qualifier, and Laurinburg allowed countless players to do just that. As Coach Cal would say, "it is what it is."
So....how would all of you that were jumping up and down about the 'factual inaccuracies' yesterday like your crow....fried, grilled?
So now is Gary a 'moron' too?
Truth is, Calkins hit the nail on the head (again) and most here are concerned that Memphis was 'lumped in' with schools like Ole Miss and UT.
Isn't that what we are aspiring to be like? If we want that BCS check, and everything that goes with it, are we willing to pay that price?
There's a cost to be the boss.
"...he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever."
You equate a scenario where a school goes to great lengths to make sure that students actually do the work to Oher and Powe not being able to read? You are either...
1) Joking
2) Drunk
3) A complete idiot
4) 2 and 3
Stammers Wrote:madtiger Wrote:Quote:Gary Parrish on Wednesday -- he's now the national college basketball columnist for CBS SportsLine.com -- and he said the "diploma mill" characterization was fair. No, Laurinburg didn't just hand out grades. But it was a place where a staggering number of Division 1 basketball players went to repair their transcripts. As Gary put it, "My understanding is that the staff fully recognized why some of its students were enrolled, and if a prospect needed a 'B' to get qualified then -- unless he truly fought authority -- he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever. Truth is, I'm not sure that's a bad thing because I'll forever insist whatever Shawne Williams did at Laurinburg was infinitely better than what he was doing at Hamilton High. But let's not be naive. With few exceptions, when a prospect heads to prep school it is to transform from a non-qualifier to a qualifier, and Laurinburg allowed countless players to do just that. As Coach Cal would say, "it is what it is."
So....how would all of you that were jumping up and down about the 'factual inaccuracies' yesterday like your crow....fried, grilled?
So now is Gary a 'moron' too?
Truth is, Calkins hit the nail on the head (again) and most here are concerned that Memphis was 'lumped in' with schools like Ole Miss and UT.
Isn't that what we are aspiring to be like? If we want that BCS check, and everything that goes with it, are we willing to pay that price?
There's a cost to be the boss.
"...he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever."
You equate a scenario where a school goes to great lengths to make sure that students actually do the work to Oher and Powe not being able to read? You are either...
1) Joking
2) Drunk
3) A complete idiot
4) 2 and 3
I figured it'd take about 10 seconds for the 'idiot' comment. I've learned that when dealing with you, there is no logic or reasonable argument, just name calling. But I'll try again anyway...
My question is, why are they there in the first place? The ONLY reason they are in prep school is the same reason you are demeaning Ole Miss- to get them qualified to play basketball. If it is any different than what Ole Miss is doing...then why doesn't Cal send other kids to prep school that aren't basketball playas?
Where the hell did all of this prep school crap start anyway? What happened to going to Junior College...or is that too difficult for these kids?
I'm just amazed by the fact that everyone think Cal is 'helping kids', but the Touhy's are 'terrible people'?
BTW, who said Oher can't read?
Caulkins would have made a pretty good cowboy. He is forever "getting on his high horse". I just can't stand his "holier that thou" attitude. I remember that his diatribes against Jeremey Hunt were really vicious.
That said, I know that as a columnist, he is paid to have opinions and he does have some pretty strong ones. When I disagree with him, I never let it spoil my day, because I believe that my strongly held opinion is just a valid as his. Don't let him get to you. Never let them see you sweat.
madtiger Wrote:Stammers Wrote:madtiger Wrote:Quote:Gary Parrish on Wednesday -- he's now the national college basketball columnist for CBS SportsLine.com -- and he said the "diploma mill" characterization was fair. No, Laurinburg didn't just hand out grades. But it was a place where a staggering number of Division 1 basketball players went to repair their transcripts. As Gary put it, "My understanding is that the staff fully recognized why some of its students were enrolled, and if a prospect needed a 'B' to get qualified then -- unless he truly fought authority -- he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever. Truth is, I'm not sure that's a bad thing because I'll forever insist whatever Shawne Williams did at Laurinburg was infinitely better than what he was doing at Hamilton High. But let's not be naive. With few exceptions, when a prospect heads to prep school it is to transform from a non-qualifier to a qualifier, and Laurinburg allowed countless players to do just that. As Coach Cal would say, "it is what it is."
So....how would all of you that were jumping up and down about the 'factual inaccuracies' yesterday like your crow....fried, grilled?
So now is Gary a 'moron' too?
Truth is, Calkins hit the nail on the head (again) and most here are concerned that Memphis was 'lumped in' with schools like Ole Miss and UT.
Isn't that what we are aspiring to be like? If we want that BCS check, and everything that goes with it, are we willing to pay that price?
There's a cost to be the boss.
"...he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever."
You equate a scenario where a school goes to great lengths to make sure that students actually do the work to Oher and Powe not being able to read? You are either...
1) Joking
2) Drunk
3) A complete idiot
4) 2 and 3
I figured it'd take about 10 seconds for the 'idiot' comment. I've learned that when dealing with you, there is no logic or reasonable argument, just name calling. But I'll try again anyway...
My question is, why are they there in the first place? The ONLY reason they are in prep school is the same reason you are demeaning Ole Miss- to get them qualified to play basketball. If it is any different than what Ole Miss is doing...then why doesn't Cal send other kids to prep school that aren't basketball playas?
Where the hell did all of this prep school crap start anyway? What happened to going to Junior College...or is that too difficult for these kids?
I'm just amazed by the fact that everyone think Cal is 'helping kids', but the Touhy's are 'terrible people'?
BTW, who said Oher can't read?
For some reason you are still arguing that a student going to prep school for a full year and doing all the school work is the same as a student cheating on a bunch of quickie correspondence courses at BYU. Making completely idiotic arguments like this and then complaining when you are called out is par for the course for you. Am I supposed to congratulate you on being a genius?
Are you aware of the fact that Oher had a measured IQ of 80 and a GPA of 0.6?
Stammers Wrote:Sean Touhy is a ******* jerkoff hypocrite. Him and his psycho wife had 3 years with Oher and he still couldn't read. That's great parenting right there. You have a kid that goes from not being able to read his entire life to being an honour roll student at Ole Piss. When did Saint Touhy decide that Oher had a learning disability and that it was time to learn how to read?
About 5 minutes after he couldn't cheat to get him into Ole Piss.
That is just not right.
I don't think Touhy's wife is "psycho". I seriously doubt you have ever met her or spoken to anyone that has. No one ever said that Oher could not read when he left Briarcrest.
Let's try to be fair about these things.
RandyMc Wrote:Stammers Wrote:Sean Touhy is a ******* jerkoff hypocrite. Him and his psycho wife had 3 years with Oher and he still couldn't read. That's great parenting right there. You have a kid that goes from not being able to read his entire life to being an honour roll student at Ole Piss. When did Saint Touhy decide that Oher had a learning disability and that it was time to learn how to read?
About 5 minutes after he couldn't cheat to get him into Ole Piss.
That is just not right.
I don't think Touhy's wife is "psycho". I seriously doubt you have ever met her or spoken to anyone that has. No one ever said that Oher could not read when he left Briarcrest.
Let's try to be fair about these things.
She threatened Caulkins.
Stammers Wrote:RandyMc Wrote:Stammers Wrote:Sean Touhy is a ******* jerkoff hypocrite. Him and his psycho wife had 3 years with Oher and he still couldn't read. That's great parenting right there. You have a kid that goes from not being able to read his entire life to being an honour roll student at Ole Piss. When did Saint Touhy decide that Oher had a learning disability and that it was time to learn how to read?
About 5 minutes after he couldn't cheat to get him into Ole Piss.
That is just not right.
I don't think Touhy's wife is "psycho". I seriously doubt you have ever met her or spoken to anyone that has. No one ever said that Oher could not read when he left Briarcrest.
Let's try to be fair about these things.
She threatened Caulkins.
She reacted like any mother would if she felt someone was taking a shot at her son in a newspaper. She obviously is very protective of Michael. And obviously she does treat him as her son.
And by the way, how are correspondence courses any different than prep school? In both cases you have players that didn't get the job done in their high school courses, so they have to find other routes to get eligible without losing any eligibility. Both are ways to have a player quickly replace his high school grades with new ones so he can be eligible. The only difference is that correspondence courses are done in a shorter period of time. I seriously doubt though that most prep school athletes do any more work than those that take correspondence courses.
The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
RandyMc Wrote:Stammers Wrote:Sean Touhy is a ******* jerkoff hypocrite. Him and his psycho wife had 3 years with Oher and he still couldn't read. That's great parenting right there. You have a kid that goes from not being able to read his entire life to being an honour roll student at Ole Piss. When did Saint Touhy decide that Oher had a learning disability and that it was time to learn how to read?
About 5 minutes after he couldn't cheat to get him into Ole Piss.
That is just not right.
I don't think Touhy's wife is "psycho". I seriously doubt you have ever met her or spoken to anyone that has. No one ever said that Oher could not read when he left Briarcrest.
Let's try to be fair about these things.
Thank you Randy.
In order to have lasting influence, you must have credibility.
In order to have crediblity, you must be fair.
RebelBruiser Wrote:The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
BINGO!! I may not like it but I can face reality.........
RebelBruiser Wrote:Stammers Wrote:RandyMc Wrote:Stammers Wrote:Sean Touhy is a ******* jerkoff hypocrite. Him and his psycho wife had 3 years with Oher and he still couldn't read. That's great parenting right there. You have a kid that goes from not being able to read his entire life to being an honour roll student at Ole Piss. When did Saint Touhy decide that Oher had a learning disability and that it was time to learn how to read?
About 5 minutes after he couldn't cheat to get him into Ole Piss.
That is just not right.
I don't think Touhy's wife is "psycho". I seriously doubt you have ever met her or spoken to anyone that has. No one ever said that Oher could not read when he left Briarcrest.
Let's try to be fair about these things.
She threatened Caulkins.
She reacted like any mother would if she felt someone was taking a shot at her son in a newspaper. She obviously is very protective of Michael. And obviously she does treat him as her son.
And by the way, how are correspondence courses any different than prep school? In both cases you have players that didn't get the job done in their high school courses, so they have to find other routes to get eligible without losing any eligibility. Both are ways to have a player quickly replace his high school grades with new ones so he can be eligible. The only difference is that correspondence courses are done in a shorter period of time. I seriously doubt though that most prep school athletes do any more work than those that take correspondence courses.
The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
The only difference is that the correspondence courses are done in a shorter period of time? Are you on crack? The corrrespondence courses are completed in 10 (TEN) days. The Laurinburg courses run from September to May and the players can't miss class and have to actually take each course. Are you really dumb enough to compare a 10 day course to a 9 month course? The BYU courses have been banned by the NCAA. Here is what you are dealing with at Ole Piss.
"Oher was not a whale out of water at Ole Miss. Lewis says that the typical football player in Michael's college class ''had third-grade-level reading skills. Several had never taken math. Ever.''
Stammers Wrote:"Oher was not a whale out of water at Ole Miss. Lewis says that the typical football player in Michael's college class ''had third-grade-level reading skills. Several had never taken math. Ever.''
And for some reason you think this isn't the case with Memphis's football or basketball teams? There are a lot of athletes at every school that actually are college material, but at every school, including yours, there is a faction that fits the description you just gave. If you don't believe that, then you're drinking a whole lot of blue kool-aid.
TigerChick Wrote:RebelBruiser Wrote:The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
BINGO!! I may not like it but I can face reality.........
Chick, please give me any documented proof of any of our players being admitted into the school after someone cheated for them on a bunch of 10 day correspondence courses. Also, feel free to provide documented proof of any of our players being declared learning disabled and being allowed into school through this loophole. If any of them did get into school using this loophole it would be a matter of public record.
Anything that goes further than your flimsy *wink, wink* I know what's going on routine would be greatly appreciated.
RebelBruiser Wrote:Stammers Wrote:"Oher was not a whale out of water at Ole Miss. Lewis says that the typical football player in Michael's college class ''had third-grade-level reading skills. Several had never taken math. Ever.''
And for some reason you think this isn't the case with Memphis's football or basketball teams? There are a lot of athletes at every school that actually are college material, but at every school, including yours, there is a faction that fits the description you just gave. If you don't believe that, then you're drinking a whole lot of blue kool-aid.
I am 100% confident that the school's football team doesn't have an aggregate 3rd grade reading level. The bottom line is that there have been 2 documented cases of this with proof at Ole Piss in the last 2 years. Do you have any actual proof that you'd like to share with us? Of course you don't. Please show me one single instance of Memphis players being admitted with Oher and Powe's credentials. If not, stfu.
Stammers is on a roll today. I might have to put off some of this analysis.
Stammers Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:RebelBruiser Wrote:The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
BINGO!! I may not like it but I can face reality.........
Chick, please give me any documented proof of any of our players being admitted into the school after someone cheated for them on a bunch of 10 day correspondence courses. Also, feel free to provide documented proof of any of our players being declared learning disabled and being allowed into school through this loophole. If any of them did get into school using this loophole it would be a matter of public record.
Anything that goes further than your flimsy *wink, wink* I know what's going on routine would be greatly appreciated.
Are you naive enough to think that just if she can't provide you written proof, it doesn't happen? I hate to tell you this, but there are things that go on that we have absolutly no knowledge of. To claim that our athletics do and have done nothing wrong or anything like this in the past is more than just naive.
RebelBruiser Wrote:Stammers Wrote:"Oher was not a whale out of water at Ole Miss. Lewis says that the typical football player in Michael's college class ''had third-grade-level reading skills. Several had never taken math. Ever.''
And for some reason you think this isn't the case with Memphis's football or basketball teams? There are a lot of athletes at every school that actually are college material, but at every school, including yours, there is a faction that fits the description you just gave. If you don't believe that, then you're drinking a whole lot of blue kool-aid.
Though, like you, I have no proof of this situation within our own program, and at the risk of crossing paths with Stammers, I'll say that I don't doubt that it goes on within our athletic department.
I think the reason the majority of Tiger fans are all over this situation is due to the "Great American Public University" and "couldn't meet admittance criteria at Ole Miss so they transferred to a CUSA school" crap people associated with your university spew all the time. Turns out, much to the chagrin of those same folks, that your little liberal arts school is just like the rest of us, after all. Your school has admitted a student whose mother professed he can't read.
Damn this is hilarious. Shawne Williams went to prep school because he was not being pushed hard enough by the terrible city school system. Don't you guys get it. He was so advanced after his year there he suddenly was able to get all he needed from college in less than a year. Laurinburg Prep is actually a place where miracles occur. Hallelujah!
Ask Parrish about how what he describes at Laurinburg is different than the other places which have been established for the purpose of being "diploma mills." If he says they're the same, I'll eat my crow steaming hot.
But everyone knows they're not the same, they don't hand out grades. The situation he describes is one where students actually do work and have to learn. Otherwise, why bother with extra reading and re-testing?
I've tutored HS students, been at TA at undergrad and grad school, and taught children and adults at every level. When I teach a class, I teach for learning, not for separating the "smart" students from "dumb" ones. It's not hard to tell which students are better at academics, but some of that has to do with study skills and habits, so part of the extra work I give is learning how to learn, as well as learning the material. And yes, learning disabilities are real, but they don't mean a person is stupid. My father-in-law is dyslexic, and flunked out of college the first time. He was still smart enough to become a nationally known expert numismatist. But after being diagnosed, 20 years later, he completed his degree.
My perspective is that I want as many people as possible to be able to be as educated as possible.
As far as athletics, whether it's Memphis or any other school, I want that to be legit learning, not cheating. I want Powe to have a chance to learn and do well in school - if he is a legit qualifier, I hope he does.
Since Laurinburg is not = to the prep schools that just hand out grades, Calkins was painting with too broad a brush, and I stand by my critique of his column.
RebelBruiser Wrote:Stammers Wrote:"Oher was not a whale out of water at Ole Miss. Lewis says that the typical football player in Michael's college class ''had third-grade-level reading skills. Several had never taken math. Ever.''
And for some reason you think this isn't the case with Memphis's football or basketball teams? There are a lot of athletes at every school that actually are college material, but at every school, including yours, there is a faction that fits the description you just gave. If you don't believe that, then you're drinking a whole lot of blue kool-aid.
Well we have some NAMES that are pretty OBVIOUS at OM. So exactly who are the players are Memphis that could not read or write?
tigertommy Wrote:Damn this is hilarious. Shawne Williams went to prep school because he was not being pushed hard enough by the terrible city school system. Don't you guys get it. He was so advanced after his year there he suddenly was able to get all he needed from college in less than a year. Laurinburg Prep is actually a place where miracles occur. Hallelujah!
You are very committed to your take on this issue. I've never seen you consider the stated reason for the difference, i.e. that Shawne goofed off at Hamilton - had too many distractions being "big man on campus" and didn't really buckle down. Not qualifying and having to spend the extra year at Laurinburg with nothing to to but ball and school made it more real for him, and he did what he had to do.
Of course, it's easy to just be a complete cynic and dismiss that entirely, which is predictably what you'll do. I suppose it's not possible that a student could be capable of different work in a more focused environment.
I guess I need to "get a grip" and realize that nothing that seems positive could ever be true.
OK Goeff....you put your foot in your mouth now. Name the players at Memphis that are in the same category as the OM players? Remember, these are players who could not read or write.
Here are your words. Because it happens at OM....IT HAPPENS AT EVERY SCHOOL. I challenge that what is happening at OM...at this EXACT LEVEL of illiteracy...is happening EVERYWHERE including HARVARD (which is part of "AT EVERY SCHOOL" last time I checked).
You CAN do better than this!! Lumping every program INCLUDING YOUR ALMA MATER into what is going on at Mississippi in neither accurate nor a fair assessment.
******************************
Dear Geoff,
As I was reading your article this morning, I could not believe that you actually brought Memphis' football team into the mix with programs like Ole Miss and Tennessee.
As a former player and supporter of the University of Memphis football program, I can assure you that Memphis is not even in the same league with Ole Miss and Tennessee when it comes to selling your soul for a few wins.
Kevin Bohannon
Dear Kevin,
That's exactly why I included Memphis and Tennessee in a column about an Ole Miss football player. Because I knew that somewhere out there, a delusional fan would say "At least it doesn't happen at my school."
It happens at your school, Kevin. It happens at every school.
"
Quote:A diploma mill (also known as a degree mill) is an organization that awards academic degrees and diplomas with substandard or no academic study, and without recognition by official accrediting bodies. These degrees are often awarded based on life experience. Webster’s Third New International Dictionary defines a diploma mill as "An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or, because of the lack of proper standards, worthless."
Wikipedia.
Calkins reply really bothered me. He answered the question about Laurinburg by redefining the term diploma mill. If I get to redefine terms I can cloud the truth and win any argument.
A diploma mill is an institution where the diploma is either fraudulent or due to the lack of proper standards, worthless. Laurinburg as I understand it forced the students to do the work themselves and learn, even to the extent of requiring extra work and effort. I also understand that the student body at Laurinburg is not made up completely of potential division 1 athletes. Mr. Calkins, I have news for you this is not the definition of a diploma mill.
The comparison between them and Mr. Powe who had his tutor do his work for him and who has been publicly declared to not be able to read is not valid nor honest. It is lazy and dishonest journalism which would have earned you an F at your alma mater. Everyone has bad days on the job. This is one our your worst. If you want to prove your thesis, use examples that are the same (not four steps removed) as your thesis.
Do not defame student athletes by "painting with a broad brush" to include them where they should not be. If I were Antonio Anderson for example, I would be very upset with you for damaging my future employment opportunities by implying that I had not earned my high school diploma.
lenetzach Wrote:![[Image: IsaiahTiger-1.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r26/mattcil/IsaiahTiger-1.jpg)
This has nothing to do with this thread, but that is one cute little Tiger!
Stammers Wrote:madtiger Wrote:Stammers Wrote:madtiger Wrote:Quote:Gary Parrish on Wednesday -- he's now the national college basketball columnist for CBS SportsLine.com -- and he said the "diploma mill" characterization was fair. No, Laurinburg didn't just hand out grades. But it was a place where a staggering number of Division 1 basketball players went to repair their transcripts. As Gary put it, "My understanding is that the staff fully recognized why some of its students were enrolled, and if a prospect needed a 'B' to get qualified then -- unless he truly fought authority -- he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever. Truth is, I'm not sure that's a bad thing because I'll forever insist whatever Shawne Williams did at Laurinburg was infinitely better than what he was doing at Hamilton High. But let's not be naive. With few exceptions, when a prospect heads to prep school it is to transform from a non-qualifier to a qualifier, and Laurinburg allowed countless players to do just that. As Coach Cal would say, "it is what it is."
So....how would all of you that were jumping up and down about the 'factual inaccuracies' yesterday like your crow....fried, grilled?
So now is Gary a 'moron' too?
Truth is, Calkins hit the nail on the head (again) and most here are concerned that Memphis was 'lumped in' with schools like Ole Miss and UT.
Isn't that what we are aspiring to be like? If we want that BCS check, and everything that goes with it, are we willing to pay that price?
There's a cost to be the boss.
"...he would earn that 'B' one way or another thanks to make-up tests, extra credit, extra reading assignments or whatever."
You equate a scenario where a school goes to great lengths to make sure that students actually do the work to Oher and Powe not being able to read? You are either...
1) Joking
2) Drunk
3) A complete idiot
4) 2 and 3
I figured it'd take about 10 seconds for the 'idiot' comment. I've learned that when dealing with you, there is no logic or reasonable argument, just name calling. But I'll try again anyway...
My question is, why are they there in the first place? The ONLY reason they are in prep school is the same reason you are demeaning Ole Miss- to get them qualified to play basketball. If it is any different than what Ole Miss is doing...then why doesn't Cal send other kids to prep school that aren't basketball playas?
Where the hell did all of this prep school crap start anyway? What happened to going to Junior College...or is that too difficult for these kids?
I'm just amazed by the fact that everyone think Cal is 'helping kids', but the Touhy's are 'terrible people'?
BTW, who said Oher can't read?
For some reason you are still arguing that a student going to prep school for a full year and doing all the school work is the same as a student cheating on a bunch of quickie correspondence courses at BYU. Making completely idiotic arguments like this and then complaining when you are called out is par for the course for you. Am I supposed to congratulate you on being a genius?
Are you aware of the fact that Oher had a measured IQ of 80 and a GPA of 0.6?
Frankly, I do see them as the same thing. They are both tools that schools in the NCAA use to get 'student' athletes eligible. The length of the course is irrelevant in this arguement. You think that the Laurinburg folks are better off having gone to prep 'school' for educational value? Again, as I asked before if prep 'schools' are such legendary centers are learning, why aren't math teachers sending 'slower' students there. If they are so great for education, and Cal really thinks they can help a kid, why doesn't he steer non 'student' athletes there? He doesn't, and the answer is the same as the BYU correspondence courses. I'll say it real clear.
They are tools to get college 'student' athletes eligible to play NCAA Division I College Football and Division I College basketball.
I don't understand how someone as smart as you can't see that. I think they are both terrible ideas. Whatever happened to going to Junior College? Or is that above these kids reading and writing level.
Oh as for Oher having an IQ of 80...THEN HE DESERVES THE HELP, because he has a disability.
I thank God everyday that I am not saddled with any sort of disability mental or otherwise, and you should do the same and not look down on those that are.
Ole Miss is my number one most hated team. But I REFUSE to look down my nose at them when we have A LOT of trash on our front porch that needs to be swept up.
How would you feel if it came out next week that lets say...Maurice Avery couldn't read...and that DeAngelo wrote and read on a 3rd grade level?
Would you send Memphis and those young men up the river like you are doing with Powe and Oher? I'm guessing no....everyone would be doing a 'Jeremy Hunt' and praising the administration for taking these young men in and giving them another chance when the world cast them out.
Give me a break. Memphis is just as guilty of academic inequity as the next school.
Every school pushes the academic and recruiting rules to the breaking point.
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin.
It is what it is.
Stammers Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:RebelBruiser Wrote:The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
BINGO!! I may not like it but I can face reality.........
Chick, please give me any documented proof of any of our players being admitted into the school after someone cheated for them on a bunch of 10 day correspondence courses. Also, feel free to provide documented proof of any of our players being declared learning disabled and being allowed into school through this loophole. If any of them did get into school using this loophole it would be a matter of public record.
Albert Means didn't take his ACT. Someone else did. Seems about the same as cheating on correspondence courses.
And didn't Chris Massie pass a very large number of summer classes to regain eligibility one season?
And do you think Shawne Williams really went to Laurinburg just to get away from bad influences in Memphis?
If Michael Lewis wrote a book about Memphis athletics, you don't think he would find players who used "loopholes" to get in to college?
uofmcamaro Wrote:Stammers Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:RebelBruiser Wrote:The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
BINGO!! I may not like it but I can face reality.........
Chick, please give me any documented proof of any of our players being admitted into the school after someone cheated for them on a bunch of 10 day correspondence courses. Also, feel free to provide documented proof of any of our players being declared learning disabled and being allowed into school through this loophole. If any of them did get into school using this loophole it would be a matter of public record.
Anything that goes further than your flimsy *wink, wink* I know what's going on routine would be greatly appreciated.
Are you naive enough to think that just if she can't provide you written proof, it doesn't happen? I hate to tell you this, but there are things that go on that we have absolutly no knowledge of. To claim that our athletics do and have done nothing wrong or anything like this in the past is more than just naive.
Where did I say that our school does nothing wrong? On top of what happens at every school we have these highly publicized, documented instances with Oher and Powe.
I'll make it easy on Chick. For part 1, I don't need proof of any of our players cheating on a 10 day correspondence course to get into school. All she has to do is give proof that any of our recruits took anything resembling a bogus 10 day course to get into the school.
For part 2, I'd like Chick to give a list of players that were declared learning disabled to get them into school. Again, if this happened it would be a matter of public record; she wouldn't be outing anyone.
Bear Bryant:
'You can get a six feet piece of rope eligible'
madtiger Wrote:Give me a break. Memphis is just as guilty of academic inequity as the next school.
I think the point is, when something questionable has occured at Memphis, Caulkins or no one else has ever tried to rationalize or justify it by invoking past occurances at $EC institutions. Why did Caulkins bring Memphis into the Powe argument?
I don't think anybody is saying the University of Memphis is above reproach. On the other hand, at least in print, these area $EC schools are never held to the same standard of accountability as Memphis. Why?
That is what is so frustrating and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.
I agree that it would be good for non-athletes to have an advocate to help them with their issues. It is also true that some athletes wouldn't be going to college if not for sports, but does that mean that legitimately helping them get an education is a bad thing?
Just because there aren't enough people advocating for non-athletes, should no one advocate for athletes, just to make it fair? Or should more work be done to help others too? Should it be Cal's job to get every student in the world into college? He's a basketball coach.
So how many unhappy basketball players leave Laurinburg prep without a diploma or without getting the increase os grades they needed?
How many unhappy customers are there in the basketball side of things at the school?
If it really isn't a place to pad our grades or get a diploma everyone would like to know about it.
From the looks of things it falls very squarely in what is known as a diploma mill. It is a place where basketball players go to pad their grades.
I guess it is out of bounds to ask how Shawne could afford $15k to better his grades when he was in such dire need of money for his family he stopped going to classes not long after his freshman year here to concentrate on the NBA draft.
I guess it hurts many to realize a team they root for his morally flawed just as most are. After living through the Dana Kirk years I will never be so naive again.
tigertommy Wrote:So how many unhappy basketball players leave Laurinburg prep without a diploma or without getting the increase os grades they needed?
How many unhappy customers are there in the basketball side of things at the school?
If it really isn't a place to pad our grades or get a diploma everyone would like to know about it.
From the looks of things is falls very squarely in what is known as a diploma mill. It is a place where basketball players go to pad their grades.
And what does that have to do with Powe?
Stammers Wrote:uofmcamaro Wrote:Stammers Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:RebelBruiser Wrote:The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
BINGO!! I may not like it but I can face reality.........
Chick, please give me any documented proof of any of our players being admitted into the school after someone cheated for them on a bunch of 10 day correspondence courses. Also, feel free to provide documented proof of any of our players being declared learning disabled and being allowed into school through this loophole. If any of them did get into school using this loophole it would be a matter of public record.
Anything that goes further than your flimsy *wink, wink* I know what's going on routine would be greatly appreciated.
Are you naive enough to think that just if she can't provide you written proof, it doesn't happen? I hate to tell you this, but there are things that go on that we have absolutly no knowledge of. To claim that our athletics do and have done nothing wrong or anything like this in the past is more than just naive.
Where did I say that our school does nothing wrong? On top of what happens at every school we have these highly publicized, documented instances with Oher and Powe.
I'll make it easy on Chick. For part 1, I don't need proof of any of our players cheating on a 10 day correspondence course to get into school. All she has to do is give proof that any of our recruits took anything resembling a bogus 10 day course to get into the school.
For part 2, I'd like Chick to give a list of players that were declared learning disabled to get them into school. Again, if this happened it would be a matter of public record; she wouldn't be outing anyone.
The way it is coming across, it seems as if you are giving us the, "we don't do anything wrong, all the other schools do" vibe. You search for definate proof of everything and desire to believe that it can't be true here.
Just a question on the ACT Test. Did Means have someone else take it to get into Alabama or Memphis? Since this is a high school test taken to get into school, I would assume he had someone take it for him, in order to get into Alabama.
tigertommy Wrote:So how many unhappy basketball players leave Laurinburg prep without a diploma or without getting the increase os grades they needed?
How many unhappy customers are there in the basketball side of things at the school?
If it really isn't a place to pad our grades or get a diploma everyone would like to know about it.
From the looks of things is falls very squarely in what is known as a diploma mill. It is a place where basketball players go to pad their grades.
Call me unethical, but I'm okay with it.
MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:madtiger Wrote:Give me a break. Memphis is just as guilty of academic inequity as the next school.
I think the point is, when something questionable has occured at Memphis, Caulkins or no one else has ever tried to rationalize or justify it by invoking past occurances at $EC institutions. Why did Caulkins bring Memphis into the Powe argument?
I don't think anybody is saying the University of Memphis is above reproach. On the other hand, at least in print, these area $EC schools are never held to the same standard of accountability as Memphis. Why?
That is what is so frustrating and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.
Sorry but when all of the prepsters started arriving and questions were raised Caulkins said everyone does it so why the fuss. Get over it folks.
BrianJ Wrote:Stammers Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:RebelBruiser Wrote:The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
BINGO!! I may not like it but I can face reality.........
Chick, please give me any documented proof of any of our players being admitted into the school after someone cheated for them on a bunch of 10 day correspondence courses. Also, feel free to provide documented proof of any of our players being declared learning disabled and being allowed into school through this loophole. If any of them did get into school using this loophole it would be a matter of public record.
Albert Means didn't take his ACT. Someone else did. Seems about the same as cheating on correspondence courses.
And didn't Chris Massie pass a very large number of summer classes to regain eligibility one season?
And do you think Shawne Williams really went to Laurinburg just to get away from bad influences in Memphis?
If Michael Lewis wrote a book about Memphis athletics, you don't think he would find players who used "loopholes" to get in to college?
- Albert Means was a university student in good standing when he transferred to Memphis. If Means had have been admitted to Memphis as a freshman the same way that Bammer admitted him, I would be the first to condemn it. Second; after what Means went through I would have been happy to see him to anywhere.
- Chris Massie's situation was another one where Caulkins implied that there was something shady without having any proof. If Massie hadn't been to any classes it would have become a story. Not everyone would have covered it up. In any event, there is no proof of any wrongdoing. In Powe's case it is very well documented. In Oher's case; if the Saint Touhy's cared about him so much; please show me the courses for learning disabled students that he took at Briarcrest. Also, if the Saint Touhy's cared about Oher so much; how come they only rushed to declare him learning disabled when it was the only way to get him qualified.
- Shawne Williams went to a reputable school where by all accounts the students were forced to do their classwork in order to make the necessary grades. He also spent the better part of a year there. Please convince me that this is the same as having someone do the work for him for a 10 day correspondence course and I will be the first to agree with you. Try to present an argument that goes beyond Tommy's know nothing defeatist dumba$$ nonsense, or Chick's standard I've seen it so believe it routine.
You quote Michael Lewis but in case you didn't notice he detailed the situations at Ole Piss; not Memphis. If Memphis did things like this of course he would have talked about us...but he didn't did he? Your post also fails to do 2 things.
1) Show anything that resembles a loophole.
2) Show anything that compares to the situation with Oher and Powe.
DallasTiger Wrote:Just a question on the ACT Test. Did Means have someone else take it to get into Alabama or Memphis? Since this is a high school test taken to get into school, I would assume he had someone take it for him, in order to get into Alabama.
Exactly. Or Means may not have even been aware of the guy taking the ACT for him. The way his recruiting was handled by those he trusted is disgusting.
Quote:I guess it is out of bounds to ask how Shawne could afford $15k to better his grades when he was in such dire need of money for his family he stopped going to classes not long after his freshman year here to concentrate on the NBA draft.
Bingo!
MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:DallasTiger Wrote:Just a question on the ACT Test. Did Means have someone else take it to get into Alabama or Memphis? Since this is a high school test taken to get into school, I would assume he had someone take it for him, in order to get into Alabama.
Exactly. Or Means may not have even been aware of the guy taking the ACT for him. The way his recruiting was handled by those he trusted is disgusting.
Now there is a point. If Means was so stupid he didn't know someone was taking the ACT for him and didn't think he actually had to take it (By that time all HS players were told what was expected of them multiple times) then Big A had no business being in college anyway.
Maybe one day you guys will figure something out on your own.
Stammers Wrote:Sean Touhy is a ******* jerkoff hypocrite. Him and his psycho wife had 3 years with Oher and he still couldn't read. That's great parenting right there. You have a kid that goes from not being able to read his entire life to being an honour roll student at Ole Piss. When did Saint Touhy decide that Oher had a learning disability and that it was time to learn how to read?
About 5 minutes after he couldn't cheat to get him into Ole Piss.
Tuohy is one of the main reasons I don't listen to the Grizzlies much anymore, and therefore don't much care about them. But he and Geoff should get along great, they share mutual values.
uofmcamaro Wrote:Stammers Wrote:uofmcamaro Wrote:Stammers Wrote:TigerChick Wrote:RebelBruiser Wrote:The bottom line is, you're ticked that Calkins lumped Memphis in as a program that will find the shortcuts to get athletes eligible and keep them eligible. He's right, and that's why you're so angry about it. You want to be able to pretend your school is above it, but in reality, no one is, except maybe the Vandys and Dukes of the world.
BINGO!! I may not like it but I can face reality.........
Chick, please give me any documented proof of any of our players being admitted into the school after someone cheated for them on a bunch of 10 day correspondence courses. Also, feel free to provide documented proof of any of our players being declared learning disabled and being allowed into school through this loophole. If any of them did get into school using this loophole it would be a matter of public record.
Anything that goes further than your flimsy *wink, wink* I know what's going on routine would be greatly appreciated.
Are you naive enough to think that just if she can't provide you written proof, it doesn't happen? I hate to tell you this, but there are things that go on that we have absolutly no knowledge of. To claim that our athletics do and have done nothing wrong or anything like this in the past is more than just naive.
Where did I say that our school does nothing wrong? On top of what happens at every school we have these highly publicized, documented instances with Oher and Powe.
I'll make it easy on Chick. For part 1, I don't need proof of any of our players cheating on a 10 day correspondence course to get into school. All she has to do is give proof that any of our recruits took anything resembling a bogus 10 day course to get into the school.
For part 2, I'd like Chick to give a list of players that were declared learning disabled to get them into school. Again, if this happened it would be a matter of public record; she wouldn't be outing anyone.
The way it is coming across, it seems as if you are giving us the, "we don't do anything wrong, all the other schools do" vibe. You search for definate proof of everything and desire to believe that it can't be true here.
You should take the time to read what I posted. I never implied that we don't do anything wrong. The basis for my anger is Caulkins comparing someone cheating on a 10 day correspondence course to students spending an entire year at a prep school. Caulkins implied that they are one and the same and they are not.
Do you think that they are the same?
I think what we are dealing with is a variance in "degree" of the same issue. I agree with Stammers - the collective reading level of the football team is at least at an 8th grade level.
BUT
I can say without reservation that I don't believe, for one pico-second, that the entire basketball team or football team writes their own 3 page papers for English 1101. NO WAY.
I would agree that the Tiger FB/BB teams can add, subtract, multiply and divide with a calculator, but there is NO WAY that they are all doing their own homework for Algebra/Trig 1101.
AND
The only reason it STAYS THIS way (instead of turning into mississippi) is the Integrity of the coaching staff. You can get help, if you seek it and truly want to learn (at least a little) - but nobody gets a truly "free" walk. They may get more than their "fair share" of opportunities, but nobody rides for free, imho.
Are some people so blind and ignorant that they cannot see the difference between what is happening at Mississippi and what is happening at Rice, Harvard, Dartmouth, Rollins and MOST other schools? Grouping EVERY SCHOOL into the Mississippi scenario of ACTIVELY recruiting players who can neither read nor write is rediculous. NO, it doesn't happen everywhere....that's why it STANDS OUT SO MUCH!!!!
