NCAAbbs

With every passing day we see the detoriation of an office that so many of us held in such regard. With the embarassment nationally and Internationally that W has become. What moves can we make as a society to ensure that something like "the W" never happens to us again. Here are some of my ideas: Feel free to add any if you wish.

1. Ban the word Republican as a national party. Everytime someone thinks "Hey whatever happened to the Republican's" they will think about our 43rd president and everyone's stomach's will churn. This might have the desired effect we are all looking for. We will ban the GOP, the Elephant........ anything associated with the party. They have to pay some price....................................


2. Anyone who voted for W in 2004 must pass a qualifying exam to get the right to vote in further national elections. I suspect this hurdle would be quite the challenge for many of W's supporters. We could very well thin the herd here, if you get my drift. I'll let the 2000 people get a pass because they came to their senses in 2004. Everyone deserves a break.

3. Start every elementary school day after the pledge of allegiance a pledge about the moral high ground. Talk about the evils of pre-emption.

4. For one whole year. Let's make it 2008. Every American gets to charge his lunch onto his grandchildren. Think of a reverse social security. We could even call this "the optmistic owl dump truck lunch". We all know there are no free lunches in life, but this is too good of a deal for everyone involved. If the grandkids complain they could just vote in 2 years of free lunches for themselves and have THEIR grandkids complain. I know a vicious cycle, but it would be a great reminder for our country of W's tax cuts.

5. Feel free to add any new ones!!! I'll post some more later. ;-)

Mach's talking about morals. lmfao lmfao lmfao

He's pointing the finger at us. lmfao lmfao lmfao

He pointing the finger at me.
lmfao lmfao lmfao

You have no credibility, Mach. Not when it comes to pointing fingers about morals and ethics.

I have provided for my grandchildren. Now you want me to provide for yours because ... ?

here's one for you, mach.


6. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

I'll explain it later - I don't expect you to understand.

Machiavelli Wrote:eak.

3. Start every elementary school day after the pledge of allegiance a pledge about the moral high ground. Talk about the evils of pre-emption.

Isn't the Great Leader in North Korea already doing this? Not an original idea, mach. But a scary one from a part-time educator.

Quote:2. Anyone who voted for W in 2004 must pass a qualifying exam to get the right to vote in further national elections. I suspect this hurdle would be quite the challenge for many of W's supporters. We could very well thin the herd here, if you get my drift. I'll let the 2000 people get a pass because they came to their senses in 2004. Everyone deserves a break.

Let's do this across the board. The Democrat Party would cease to exist.

Machiavelli Wrote:2. Anyone who voted for W in 2004 must pass a qualifying exam to get the right to vote in further national elections. I suspect this hurdle would be quite the challenge for many of W's supporters. We could very well thin the herd here, if you get my drift. I'll let the 2000 people get a pass because they came to their senses in 2004. Everyone deserves a break.

Didn't GWB win the popular vote in 2004?

In any case, I escape your misbegotten wrath, oh perfect one. I wrote in Bill Cosby for President in 2004 - the second time I have voted for a black man for president. Can any of you libs say that even once? And, hey, maybe with luck i can vote for a black woman for president in '08.

OptimisticOwl Wrote:I wrote in Bill Cosby for President in 2004 - the second time I have voted for a black man for president. Can any of you libs say that even once? And, hey, maybe with luck i can vote for a black woman for president in '08.

I voted for Herman Cain for Senator and would vote for him as President in a hillbilly's heartbeat.

Quote:I wrote in Bill Cosby for President in 2004

Soooo you wouldn't have to pass the BVRQE.

Basic Voting Rights Qualifying Exam.

Quote:Let's do this across the board. The Democrat Party would cease to exist.

I'm sorry. Quite the contrary. I think oddball had that post about states who voted for Gore vs. those for Bush and their collective I.Q. There was like a 99% correlation. There was only one state that voted for Bush who had an I.Q. higher than one who voted for Gore. It was amazing...........................................................................










Now I was just trying to get a little creative. I thought Owl would especially like the dump truck analogy. Jeez just a joke guys.

Machiavelli Wrote:With every passing day we see the detoriation of an office that so many of us held in such regard. With the embarassment nationally and Internationally that W has become. What moves can we make as a society to ensure that something like "the W" never happens to us again. Here are some of my ideas: Feel free to add any if you wish.

6.) Find the teachers of all of people who vote, and determine if

a) They know anything about the subjects they"teach". This should be conducted by a panel containing at least one expert in the field, that is someone w/ a PhD, published in peer-reviewed literature, and has successfully conducted independent research that is not gov't funded.

b) They proseletyze for a particular party

c) They do it during school hours.

Machiavelli Wrote:I'm sorry. Quite the contrary. I think oddball had that post about states who voted for Gore vs. those for Bush and their collective I.Q. There was like a 99% correlation. There was only one state that voted for Bush who had an I.Q. higher than one who voted for Gore. It was amazing.

Sorry, but this is a crock. It doesn't take ALL elements into account. That's like saying all red states are 100% conservative, and all blue are 100% liberal. It doesn't take into account that the inner cities in the South are always Democrat and have lower test scores than the rest of the state, bringing the state's down. I could also formulate some reason that you could be construed as a racist, but I won't do that.

I can tell you, I read DU, DailyKos, and numerous other leftwing blogs, every day. If there is a qualifying test, the Democrat Party will cease to exist.

The Democrat Party, THE Party of Confiscation.

you have to love #4. This post may be my most creative. I'd put it up there with the Soddom Hooosssseinn hangin'


dump truck lunch... still chuckling over that one. Too good of an idea for everyone involved.............. HEH' LARR E' LOOUUUSSSS. I crack myself up.

Quote:6. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

this one can be said to anyone in the spin room myself included.

Quote:b) They proseletyze for a particular party

c) They do it during school hours.

What the hell does proseltyze even mean?

c. Ohhh jeez another one. I started this post after school btw. Let heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee who is without sin cast the first stone.

Hypocrits!!!! I could be a private undercover Democratic agent for all that you guys know. I get paid to post for the Democrat party. That's my job. Jeez it feels good to get that off my chest. Now you guys can stop with the school stuff and QUIT hi-jackin my thread dirt bags. Back to making fun of Republicans.

How involved are you in the Democrat Party, Dogger? You do realize we say "Democrat Party" as an insult, right? lmfao

Machiavelli Wrote:Hypocrits!!!! I could be a private undercover Democratic agent for all that you guys know. I get paid to post for the Democrat party. That's my job.

The DNC doesn't believe in giving people jobs that are that productive.

I nominate Dogger to be the next Chairman of the DNC. That should make them a dominant force in 08.

If you were to go into the neighborhoods that vote 95% for Democrats especially the inner cities, I doubt they could pass a basic education test much less score high on a I.Q. test.

Machiavelli Wrote:this post .

Good for you mach. We will all be there for you as you make your recovery. One day at a time.

Machiavelli Wrote:

Quote:b) They proseletyze for a particular party

c) They do it during school hours.

What the hell does proseltyze even mean?

c. Ohhh jeez another one. I started this post after school btw. Let heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee who is without sin cast the first stone.

Hypocrits!!!! I could be a private undercover Democratic agent for all that you guys know. I get paid to post for the Democrat party. That's my job. Jeez it feels good to get that off my chest. Now you guys can stop with the school stuff and QUIT hi-jackin my thread dirt bags. Back to making fun of Republicans.

Um, lmfao lmfao

No, Seriously lmfao lmfao lmfao

Machiavelli Wrote:4. For one whole year. Let's make it 2008. Every American gets to charge his lunch onto his grandchildren. Think of a reverse social security. We could even call this "the optmistic owl dump truck lunch". We all know there are no free lunches in life, but this is too good of a deal for everyone involved. If the grandkids complain they could just vote in 2 years of free lunches for themselves and have THEIR grandkids complain. I know a vicious cycle, but it would be a great reminder for our country of W's tax cuts.

We could call this European lunch day as the grandchildren in Europe are facing much larger debts as opposed to GDP then the United States.

Germany comes in at 65% of GDP, France 56%, Italy is knocking it out of the park at 102% of GDP. England is the model of fiscal responsibility with debt coming in at only 38% of GDP compared to the United States at 48% of GDP.
If your grandchildren like variety we could make them pay for a Sushi lunch as the Japanese have a debt of 94% of GDP

sushi is good.

Tulsaman Wrote:sushi is good.

Nemo Found

i had some nemo the other day.

had some salmon eggs too.

Tulsaman Wrote:i had some nemo the other day.

had some salmon eggs too.

You can have all that crap you want.

they are good and salty.
if they are fresh they pop when you eat em.

Sushi damn good

ShoreBuc Wrote:Sushi damn good

Dude that is making me hungry!

I love sushi, but it is too expensive to eat as a meal.

Sorry Mach, it doesn't apply to me. I voted for Pat Buchanan in 2000, and I didn't vote at all in 2004. I just couldn't bring myself to vote for Bush, but I wasn't about to vote for a whacked out liberal. The truth is, there just haven't been any good choices in say, oh the past 25 years.

GrayBeard Wrote:

ShoreBuc Wrote:Sushi damn good

Dude that is making me hungry!

I love sushi, but it is too expensive to eat as a meal.

GrayBeard,
Next time I am in Orlando you will have to drive over. I will take you to Amura on Sand Lake Blvd. One of my favorite Sushi places when I come home.

Tulsaman Wrote:they are good and salty.
if they are fresh they pop when you eat em.

we're still talking about caviar, right?

:la:

ShoreBuc Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

ShoreBuc Wrote:Sushi damn good

Dude that is making me hungry!

I love sushi, but it is too expensive to eat as a meal.

GrayBeard,
Next time I am in Orlando you will have to drive over. I will take you to Amura on Sand Lake Blvd. One of my favorite Sushi places when I come home.

Amura has a restaurant in Lake Mary. I have had some of their sushi...mmm...mmmm good.

Hey Buc,

I'm coming through Orlando in the next month. We both could go! Can't wait. GB, Buc and the Nostradamus Mach!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds fun

Machiavelli Wrote:Hey Buc,

I'm coming through Orlando in the next month. We both could go! Can't wait. GB, Buc and the Nostradamus Mach!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds fun

Any chance the military would use a tomahawk in a "decapitation attack" against a sushi restaurant?

OwlJacket Wrote:

Machiavelli Wrote:Hey Buc,

I'm coming through Orlando in the next month. We both could go! Can't wait. GB, Buc and the Nostradamus Mach!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds fun

Any chance the military would use a tomahawk in a "decapitation attack" against a sushi restaurant?

And who would be the head that needs to be decapitated?

OwlJacket Wrote:

Machiavelli Wrote:Hey Buc,

I'm coming through Orlando in the next month. We both could go! Can't wait. GB, Buc and the Nostradamus Mach!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds fun

Any chance the military would use a tomahawk in a "decapitation attack" against a sushi restaurant?

I will have to send my body double to that event.

"With every passing day we see the detoriation of an office that so many of us held in such regard. With the embarassment nationally and internationally that W has become."

The people you are talking about despised Bush from the start. European Socialists are always going to dislike conservative Republicans. Liberal Democrats here in the States; same deal. The only change since Bush went into Iraq is that, because the war is not going well, some weak-kneed Republicans are running for political cover so they can get re-elected. Reagan was also universally despised in places like Paris, Brussels, Rome, and Moscow. But now, nearly 20 years after his presidency, a majority of Americans view his tenure as a success. The same types of people that hated Reagan in 1984 hate Bush now.

The real question is not "does the world like us?" but "do our adversaries fear us?" Islamo-fascists fear Bush more than any Democrat you can name.

You know I could agree with your post to the very last paragraph. This is where we part. Bush has been a blessing to the islamo-fascist. Now our moderate friends in the Middle East. I betcha W scares the hell out of THEM more than any Democrat you could think of.

Machiavelli Wrote:You know I could agree with your post to the very last paragraph. This is where we part. Bush has been a blessing to the islamo-fascist. Now our moderate friends in the Middle East. I betcha W scares the hell out of THEM more than any Democrat you could think of.

Bush has been great for Islamo-fascist because they had so much trouble recruiting before he came to office. lmfao lmfao lmfao

ShoreBuc,

There has been study after study about this. Al-queda was viewed almost like how Americans view the KKK. Do you realize Tehran FREAKIN TEHRAN held candlelight vigils for us after 9-11? Today you couldn't even fathom that. When did Ahjamaa deena come to power. After we invaded Iraq. After we stupidly put them on high alert with that god foresaken SOTU in 2003. Our actions have been a self fulfilling prophecy. Read some Patrick J. Buchanon. He's a guy on the right that you might listen to. When it comes from me or someone you consider a liberal lefty you discount it, but W has made Al-Quaeda a far stronger force. Hell the 12 govt. intelligence agencies said this in that leaked assessment. I know we don't usually get these jewels of enlightenment. You only hear the leaks that help there cause. The ones they give to a Matt Cooper or a Judith Miller. The Faux Noise crowd.

Machiavelli Wrote:ShoreBuc,

There has been study after study about this. Al-queda was viewed almost like how Americans view the KKK. Do you realize Tehran FREAKIN TEHRAN held candlelight vigils for us after 9-11? Today you couldn't even fathom that. When did Ahjamaa deena come to power. After we invaded Iraq. After we stupidly put them on high alert with that god foresaken SOTU in 2003. Our actions have been a self fulfilling prophecy. Read some Patrick J. Buchanon. He's a guy on the right that you might listen to. When it comes from me or someone you consider a liberal lefty you discount it, but W has made Al-Quaeda a far stronger force. Hell the 12 govt. intelligence agencies said this in that leaked assessment. I know we don't usually get these jewels of enlightenment. You only hear the leaks that help there cause. The ones they give to a Matt Cooper or a Judith Miller. The Faux Noise crowd.

For the record I consider Pat Buchanon a dumb ass who took his toys and went home after the Republicans rejected him.
I have heard this argument before and to me it does not carry water. It is like saying Lincoln created more secessionist by calling up 90k troops after Ft. Sumter. While this is correct it does not mean Lincoln should of sat on his hands and negotiated.
We have always had support in Iran as the Persians are far more westernized then other parts of the Middle East so it was no surprise that they showed sympathy for us after 9/11. Truth is there is still a large contingent inside of Iran that views the U.S. positively and would like to get rid of their current dictator.
As for Al Qaeda gaining strength? I would say there were much more powerful prior to the war in Afghanistan. They will always have plenty of recruits to choose from as they and Islam pray on the illiterate and poor masses in the Middle East and Asia. Muslims viewed Al Qaeda like Southerners did the KKK in the 1930's. To most Muslims then and now Al Qaeda is an organization standing up for their rights and the Koran. In this case lady liberty and western culture is the evil black man that wants to come in and rape their women and corrupt their bloodlines and religion.
They prey on the same ignorance the KKK once did and just like the Klan you can't negotiate with them you can only crush them. The U.S. Federal Government created a lot of Klan members through their actions but I don't blame them I blame the ignorant people who joined the Klan and believed in its cause just as I blame the ignorant intolerant muslims who join Al Qaeda.

I like that post and I believe it has merit. Just don't tell me they'll greet us as liberators though. ;-)

Would you agree our saber rattling silenced moderates and propped up extremists?

Machiavelli Wrote:I like that post and I believe it has merit. Just don't tell me they'll greet us as liberators though. ;-)

Would you agree our saber rattling silenced moderates and propped up extremists?

We were greeted like liberators. The problems that followed were caused by the power vacuum created from a century's of Iraq being dominated by colonial rule and dictators. Throw in the conflict between Sunni's and the Shiite and you had a recipe for disaster.
What really tipped the place into chaos was outside agitation. If we only had the Sunni's and Shiites to deal with there would not be nearly the problems there are today. It was Al Qaeda, Syrians and Iranians who fanned the flames of Civil War by initiating strikes inside of Iraq that would pit Shiite's against Sunnis.
Actually a pretty brilliant tactical move by the party's listed. They knew full well the ramifications of having a stable and democratic Iraq in the center of the Middle East with a 100k plus U.S. Army stationed there. It would of only been a matter of time before we struck Syria and Iran. End of the day their battle plan worked and ours failed.

As for your question, yes our actions have rallied the extremist big time. Our presence and our actions can easily be used to recruit more extremist. Last I checked the U.N. embargo that starved and killed thousands of Iraqi's also created extremist so we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.
End of the day it will be up to moderate Muslims to determine that they don't want extremist Koranic literalist and Wahhabi's to take over the Middle East and impose Sharia law that would drag the entire region back to 600 A.D.

Quote:We were greeted like liberators

I tend to think we were greeted as the new guy at school who beat up a bully. Useful in the short run. Very short run.

Machiavelli Wrote:

Quote:We were greeted like liberators

I tend to think we were greeted as the new guy at school who beat up a bully. Useful in the short run. Very short run.

Lee's Army was greeted as liberators as they marched through Maryland on the way to Gettysburg. That was short lived as well.

"Bush has been great for Islamo-fascist because they had so much trouble recruiting before he came to office."

I don't remember reading anything about a shortage of Islamic terrorists prior to the Bush presidency. Nevertheless they didn't any problem getting volunteers to hit our Marine barracks in Beirut, the WTC in 1993, the US Cole, and a couple of US embassies in Africa. Bin Laden's own writings have validated the fact that our weak response to the Beirut bombing and the blackhawk down incident in Somalia as emboldening his people.

How many Iraqis are actually loyal to Iraq first, religion second?

I ask that in all honesty. Iraq pretty much got carved out by imperialist countries. Do we have a real country here that is viable without a dictator around to run things? Or is any potential Iraqi military going to split into Sunni and Shiite armies?

The answer to this might determine how long we should be in Iraq.

Iraqis do see themselves as Iraqis. They are Arabs, while Iranians are Persians....that's a pretty big divide. The Sunni/Shiite thing is important...but most Iraqis, Sunni and Shiite wouldn't want to be governed by Iran.

The goal is to have a stable government there that is friendly (within reason) to the US, that will not support terrorism against us or the Israelis, and can defend itself against its neighbors. It would have been nice to have a democracy there, but that ship may have already sailed.