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Good read. Don't know enough history to validate it.

What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad

U.S. Veteran Dispatch January 2007
Ted Sampley Posted on 01/08/2007 11:11:11 AM PST
by Dick Bachert

Democrat Keith Ellison is now officially the first Muslim United States congressman. True to his pledge, he placed his hand on the Quran,
the Muslim book of jihad and pledged his allegiance to the United States
during his ceremonial swearing-in. Capitol Hill staff said Ellison's
swearing-in photo opportunity drew more media than they had ever
seen in the history of the U.S. House. Ellison represents the 5th
Congressional District of Minnesota.

The Quran Ellison used was no ordinary book. It once belonged to
Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and one of
America's founding fathers. Ellison borrowed it from the Rare Book
Section of the Library of Congress. It was one of the 6,500 Jefferson
books archived in the library. Ellison, who was born in Detroit and converted to Islam while in college, said he chose to use Jefferson's Quran because it showed that "a visionary like Jefferson" believed that wisdom could be gleaned from many sources. There is no doubt Ellison was right about Jefferson believing wisdom could be "gleaned" from the Muslim Quran.

At the time Jefferson owned the book, he needed to know
everything possible about Muslims because he was about to advocate war
against the Islamic "Barbary" states of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripoli. Ellison's use of Jefferson's Quran as a prop illuminates a subject once well- known in the history of the United States, but, which today, is mostly forgotten - the Muslim pirate slavers who over many centuries enslaved millions of Africans and tens of thousands of Christian Europeans and Americans in the Islamic "Barbary" states.

Over the course of 10 centuries, Muslim pirates cruised the
African and Mediterranean coastline, pillaging villages and seizing
slaves. The taking of slaves in pre-dawn raids on unsuspecting coastal
villages had a high casualty rate. It was typical of Muslim raiders to kill off
as many of the "non-Muslim" older men and women as possible so the preferred "booty" of only young women and children could be collected. Young non-Muslim women were targeted because of their value as concubines in Islamic markets. Islamic law provides for the sexual interests of Muslim men by allowing them to take as many as four wives at one time and to have as many concubines as their fortunes allow.

Boys, as young as 9 or 10 years old, were often mutilated to
create eunuchs who would bring higher prices in the slave markets of the
Middle East. Muslim slave traders created "eunuch stations" along major
Africanslave routes so the necessary surgery could be performed. It was
estimated that only a small number of the boys subjected to the mutilation survived after the surgery.

When American colonists rebelled against British rule in 1776,
American merchant ships lost Royal Navy protection. With no
American Navy for protection, American ships were attacked and their Christian crews enslaved by Muslim pirates operating under the control of the "Dey of Algiers"--an Islamist warlord ruling Algeria. Because American commerce in the Mediterranean was being destroyed by the pirates, the Continental Congress agreed in 1784 to negotiate treaties with the four Barbary States.

Congress appointed a special commission consisting of John Adams,
Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin, to oversee the negotiations.
Lacking the ability to protect its merchant ships in the Mediterranean, the
new America government tried to appease the Muslim slavers by agreeing to pay tribute and ransoms in order to retrieve seized American ships
and buy the freedom of enslaved sailors. Adams argued in favor of paying tribute as the cheapest way to get American commerce in the Mediterranean moving again.

Jefferson was opposed. He believed there would be no end to the
demands for tribute and wanted matters settled "through the medium of war." He proposed a league of trading nations to force an end to Muslim piracy. In 1786, Jefferson, then the American ambassador to France, and
Adams, then the American ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi
Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the "Dey of Algiers'" ambassador to Britain.
The Americans wanted to negotiate a peace treaty based on Congress'
vote to appease. During the meeting Jefferson and Adams asked the
Dey's ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a
nation with which they had no previous contacts. In a later meeting
with the American Congress, the two future presidents reported
that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam
"was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in
their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their
authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make
war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all
they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who
should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."


For the following 15 years, the American government paid the Muslims
millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the return
of American hostages. The payments in ransom and tribute amounted
to 20 percent of United States government annual revenues in 1800. Not
long after Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, he dispatched a
group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and
informed Congress.

Declaring that America was going to spend "millions for defense
but not one cent for tribute," Jefferson pressed the issue by deploying
American Marines and many of America's best warships to the Muslim
Barbary Coast. The USS Constitution, USS Constellation, USS Philadelphia, USS Chesapeake, USS Argus, USS Syren and USS Intrepid all saw action.

In 1805, American Marines marched across the desert from Egypt
into Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of
all American slaves. During the Jefferson administration, the Muslim
Barbary States, crumbling as a result of intense American naval
bombardment and on shore raids by Marines, finally officially agreed to abandon slavery and piracy. Jefferson's victory over the Muslims lives on today in the Marine Hymn, with the line, "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, we will fight our country's battles on the land as on the sea." It wasn't until 1815 that the problem was fully settled by the total defeat of all the Muslim slave trading pirates. Jefferson had been right. The "medium of war"was the only way to put and end to the Muslim problem. Mr. Ellison was right about Jefferson. He was a "visionary" wise enough to read and learn about the enemy from their own Muslim book of jihad.

Remember: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
DrTorch Wrote:Good read. Don't know enough history to validate it.

What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad

U.S. Veteran Dispatch January 2007
Ted Sampley Posted on 01/08/2007 11:11:11 AM PST
by Dick Bachert

No, not Ted Sampley. lmfao Where did you find this?
I like how he calls the Qu'ran the Muslim book of jihad lmfao oooooooo.. scary!!

That is an interesting tidbit of history. Reminds me of the inaction towards Hitler slowly expanding before blitzkrieging Poland; or towards Al Queda pre 9/11. Simply being idle towards intolerable actions just allows the situation to compound on itself.
Fanatical Wrote:I like how he calls the Qu'ran the Muslim book of jihad lmfao oooooooo.. scary!!

Show me where it isn't. Show me where it says "honor those that aren't Muslim".


Sorry people, but that religion, the fastest GROWING religion, will be the death of us.
Amen!
RebelKev Wrote:Show me where it isn't. Show me where it says "honor those that aren't Muslim".

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

Of course, you can find verses that say to attack the unbelievers, etc, etc, also. It is a religious text.
One thing that I seem to remember from this story was that Jefferson's Koran was obtained when he was much younger studying "Natural Law." I can't seem to find a reference to that, however.
Pretty accurate stuff. As fanatical pointed out you can find quotes in the Koran that are sympathetic towards Christianity, Judaism etc.. most of those were in the beginning of the Koran when Mohammad was still attempting to sell his new religion to those religious groups.
As those groups continued to deny Mohammad and his religion, his writings became less sympathetic towards Jews and Christians and by the time of his death he was putting curses on Jews.
Islam ultimately grew from the conversion of Pagan tribes. You can definitely tell that Mohammad held great animosity towards the Jews who he slaughtered on several occasions and Christians who both denied him to be the last and greatest prophet of Allah in the line of Abraham.

As for Thomas Jefferson, he was one of our great Free Thinkers. He studied Islam just as he did Judaism and Christianity because he wanted to understand them all. He also questioned all three religions and encouraged everyone to do the same.

Here is another good read on TJ and the Koran

http://www.slate.com/id/2157314/fr/flyout
Fanatical Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:Show me where it isn't. Show me where it says "honor those that aren't Muslim".

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

Of course, you can find verses that say to attack the unbelievers, etc, etc, also. It is a religious text.

I think they regard the Jews as having evicted them from their homes, with the help of the West.
OptimisticOwl Wrote:
Fanatical Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:Show me where it isn't. Show me where it says "honor those that aren't Muslim".

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

Of course, you can find verses that say to attack the unbelievers, etc, etc, also. It is a religious text.

I think they regard the Jews as having evicted them from their homes, with the help of the West.

And Muslims have a good argument on that one since Islam never evicted a Jew, Christian or Pagan from their home as they spread across the Middle East. 01-wingedeagle
RebelKev Wrote:Show me where it isn't. Show me where it says "honor those that aren't Muslim".
I do not find too many writing in our bible telling us to honor non Christians. The Old Testament definitely did not teach the Jews tolerance towards their non Judaic neighbors.

That was definitely an excellent read on Jefferson and his handling of the Muslim pirates. You must admit the similarities between that situation and what is currently happening today are shocking.
uhmump95 Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:Show me where it isn't. Show me where it says "honor those that aren't Muslim".
I do not find too many writing in our bible telling us to honor non Christians. The Old Testament definitely did not teach the Jews tolerance towards their non Judaic neighbors.

04-jawdrop

Leviticus 19 33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
(NIV)
DrTorch Wrote:
uhmump95 Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:Show me where it isn't. Show me where it says "honor those that aren't Muslim".
I do not find too many writing in our bible telling us to honor non Christians. The Old Testament definitely did not teach the Jews tolerance towards their non Judaic neighbors.

04-jawdrop

Leviticus 19 33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
(NIV)

Do not mistreat them and if possible hook them up with some Reeses Pieces.

[Image: ET%202.jpg]
That quote has to do with "ALIENS" where is something for their non Judaic neighbors ;-)

Guest

Well, TJ was all over that 'taking of concubines' part...
uhmump95 Wrote:I do not find too many writing in our bible telling us to honor non Christians.

That's funny. I don't find too many that make us discriminate against non-Christians. Matter of fact, I don't think I can find one that makes us discern at all.
RebelKev Wrote:
uhmump95 Wrote:I do not find too many writing in our bible telling us to honor non Christians.

That's funny. I don't find too many that make us discriminate against non-Christians. Matter of fact, I don't think I can find one that makes us discern at all.

honor might be a strong word but Jesus would talk and assocaite with anyone.
RebelKev Wrote:That's funny. I don't find too many that make us discriminate against non-Christians. Matter of fact, I don't think I can find one that makes us discern at all.
Yet in still many Christians do discriminate against non-Christians and their own fellow Christians something to make you think......
uhmump95 Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:That's funny. I don't find too many that make us discriminate against non-Christians. Matter of fact, I don't think I can find one that makes us discern at all.
Yet in still many Christians do discriminate against non-Christians and their own fellow Christians something to make you think......

What do you mean by "discriminate" in this instance? In other words, explain this discrimination that you are talking about. Please note, that I am not trying to say that you are wrong and that you need to prove yourself, but instead I really would like to know what it is that you have seen.
I have nothing to explain, check your history.
uhmump95 Wrote:I have nothing to explain, check your history.

Gee thanks. I was hoping more for what you are seeing now, and not a history lesson the crusades, etc.
I guess I could have thrown out endzones' "selective gift theory", but I did not want to sully a good topic.
uhmump95 Wrote:I guess I could have thrown out endzones' "selective gift theory", but I did not want to sully a good topic.

OK, I will let it go...point taken
uhmump95 Wrote:I guess I could have thrown out endzones' "selective gift theory", but I did not want to sully a good topic.

I am not positive on this, but I am pretty sure that people like Endzone, David Koresh, and Charles Manson, are not the people that most Christians would pick as their spokesperson.
Blah, don't you think you might be going out on a bit of a limb with that statement?
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