http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2710319
The NY Post is saying the same thing. Apparently, we're willing to go 6yrs, over 100 mil. I for one couldn't be happier, in fact i think ecstatic is the right word. Here's the top 4 (i don't know who the 5th is gonna be) for this season:
Cain
Zito
Morris
Lowry
Next season:
Cain
Zito
Lincecum
Morris
Lowry
Pitching wins championships, and this is what i call pitching.
PS- let's get some life back on this board. We need a Terpy-Swoosh argument.
Great pickup, but as great as your pitching is. Your bats are pretty bad. Still have to be the favorite in the west though.
seven-year, $126 million deal with the lefty
dang
TailgateTiger Wrote:seven-year, $126 million deal with the lefty
dang
it had to be done. they had the money and didn't want to sit on it.
JFlight21 Wrote:Great pickup, but as great as your pitching is. Your bats are pretty bad. Still have to be the favorite in the west though.
yeah, our bats are awful, but i'd rather great pitching and bad bats than bad pitching and great bats. I'd say the Mets are proof of that. On that thought, how do the Mets pass on zito and suppan? They literally have no rotation. If they don't make a trade, i'd say they literally have no chance of winning it all.
Thank God he's not going to the Mets.
Great pickup for the Giants. I know swoosh doesn't think he's an ace, but he's a rock solid No. 2 workhorse at worst, and you can't underestimate how important a guy that is.
Thank God he's not going to the Mets.
Great pickup for the Giants. I know swoosh doesn't think he's an ace, but he's a rock solid No. 2 workhorse at worst, and you can't underestimate how important a guy that is.
JFlight21 Wrote:Great pickup, but as great as your pitching is. Your bats are pretty bad. Still have to be the favorite in the west though.
I still think the Dodgers are the team to beat. The Padres have gotten worse, I think, and the Giants, who were already the oldest team in baseball, have only gotten older. I have a hard time seeing them holding up in the dog days of summer. Getting Zito is a great move, though.
GDawgs88 Wrote:Thank God he's not going to the Mets.
Great pickup for the Giants. I know swoosh doesn't think he's an ace, but he's a rock solid No. 2 workhorse at worst, and you can't underestimate how important a guy that is.
he isn't an ace. But he's exactly what you said, a very strong #2. Which is exactly what we need. He slides in right behind cain. Of course the giants will disagree. I assume Zito's gonna be the opening day starter.
GDawgs88 Wrote:JFlight21 Wrote:Great pickup, but as great as your pitching is. Your bats are pretty bad. Still have to be the favorite in the west though.
I still think the Dodgers are the team to beat. The Padres have gotten worse, I think, and the Giants, who were already the oldest team in baseball, have only gotten older. I have a hard time seeing them holding up in the dog days of summer. Getting Zito is a great move, though.
but our pitching can hold up. It still pisses me off that they re-signed feliz, instead of letting Frandsen (who had the best numbers amongst all the great prospects in the AZFL) play 3rd.
Yes, the Giants starting pitching is strong, but you can make the case that the Dodgers' is just as good with Schmidt, Lowe, Penny, Wolf and Billingsley. And I like the Dodgers' everyday lineup and bullpen better, too.
GDawgs88 Wrote:Yes, the Giants starting pitching is strong, but you can make the case that the Dodgers' is just as good with Schmidt, Lowe, Penny, Wolf and Billingsley. And I like the Dodgers' everyday lineup and bullpen better, too.
lmfao
Schmidt is trash, penny is mediocre and not the least bit durable, wolf wasn't even that good when he was healthy 3 years ago and billingsley is a wild card. Lowe's the only one who's better than a #3. Sure, their lineup is better, but they still have no power. And while their bullpen is better, i think you're overrating it. It's not that impressive.
flyingswoosh Wrote:lmfao
Schmidt is trash, penny is mediocre and not the least bit durable, wolf wasn't even that good when he was healthy 3 years ago and billingsley is a wild card. Lowe's the only one who's better than a #3.
That's a pretty good spin-job. I'm not a big Schmidt fan and I think he's in decline, but he still arguably had a better year than Zito last year. He should have one big year left in his arm. Penny is nothing special, but he was way better than Morris last year. Billingsley has almost as much potential as Cain and Wolf is not a bad 5th starter.
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:lmfao
Schmidt is trash, penny is mediocre and not the least bit durable, wolf wasn't even that good when he was healthy 3 years ago and billingsley is a wild card. Lowe's the only one who's better than a #3.
That's a pretty good spin-job. I'm not a big Schmidt fan and I think he's in decline, but he still arguably had a better year than Zito last year. He should have one big year left in his arm. Penny is nothing special, but he was way better than Morris last year. Billingsley has almost as much potential as Cain and Wolf is not a bad 5th starter.
no spin, i've been watching schmidt since we lost in the WS. He tops out at 94, and is consistently at 91-93, while his changeup is still at 88-89. He also has no toughness. He won't pitch on short rest and the clincher is, he hasn't pitched a full season ever since he's come to the giants.
As for morris, why don't you try pitching with 3 cracked ribs, it's not easy. He was on fire before he got hurt. And at least he's got guts, unless penny, the gutless wonder. I'd also say cain and his 97 mph fastball projects a little better than billingsley and his 93 mph. He's also done a little more. I'll admit that lowry is our wild card. He's had a few injuries. I'd like to see him pitch a full season.
I'll be the first to admit that their hitting and bullpen are better than ours, but i think it's laughable to even consider saying their rotation is better than ours.
That is an awful lot of money for a guy who isnt an ace.
Heard on ESPN radio this afternoon it is the biggest contract EVER for a pitcher. Why on earth would anyone pay that kind of money for a guy who isnt an ace? Honestly, swoosh, you know how I feel about Zito, I think he IS an ace, but there is no way I would ever give any pitcher that much money. Consider this, the next highest paid pitcher ever before this deal was Mike freakin Hampton. What did has he done after he signed that monster deal witth the Rockies? Jack ****.
Also, assuming he is healthy there is absolutely zero chance anyone not named Zito is the Giants opening day starter next season.
HORRIBLE deal.
Terpy Wrote:That is an awful lot of money for a guy who isnt an ace. Heard on ESPN radio this afternoon it is the biggest contract EVER for a pitcher. Why on earth would anyone pay that kind of money for a guy who isnt an ace? Honestly, swoosh, you know how I feel about Zito, I think he IS an ace, but there is no way I would ever give any pitcher that much money. Consider this, the next highest paid pitcher ever before this deal was Mike freakin Hampton. What did has he done after he signed that monster deal witth the Rockies? Jack ****.
Also, assuming he is healthy there is absolutely zero chance anyone not named Zito is the Giants opening day starter next season.
HORRIBLE deal.
who cares about the money? we have a ton of money and the largest season ticket base in all of baseball. We can afford this. Not only that, but we're finally paying a guy just so he'll do what he's always done. We don't need him to do any better. The fact is, we needed a great #2 and that's exactly what we got.
BTW, you should be ashamed for comparing him to hampton. I bet anything that hampton would've been pretty good if he didn't have to pitch in Coors (pre-humidor). Zito goes from the AL to the NL and gets to pitch in a pitcher's park. All i want him to do is: at least 15 wins, a 3.50 ERA and 200 innings.
Great Signing! Is it a ridiculous amount of money? Yes. Is he getting completely overpaid? Yes. Could this POTENTIALLY give us the strongest rotation in baseball? Yes.
2006
Pedro (wait, scratch that, he barely pitched)
Glavine
El Duque (2 months in)
Trax (Cy Young, eh?)
Maine
Perez (in Sept)
Lima/Gonzalez/Soler/Pelfrey/Williams
2007
Glavine (same)
El Duque (same)
Maine (should be better)
Perez (definitely better than Trax)
Pelfrey/Humber/Soler/Williams/Vargas
I think 2007 is better, even without Pedro.
TailgateTiger Wrote:2006
Pedro (wait, scratch that, he barely pitched)
Glavine
El Duque (2 months in)
Trax (Cy Young, eh?)
Maine
Perez (in Sept)
Lima/Gonzalez/Soler/Pelfrey/Williams
2007
Glavine (same)
El Duque (same)
Maine (should be better)
Perez (definitely better than Trax)
Pelfrey/Humber/Soler/Williams/Vargas
I think 2007 is better, even without Pedro.
i think you're nuts. IMO, the Mets have no chance of winning it all, unless they make a trade. That rotation just won't cut it.
flyingswoosh Wrote:but i think it's laughable to even consider saying their rotation is better than ours.
Funny, because the Dodgers' starters had a 4.29 ERA last year, while the Giants' had a 4.58. The Dodgers have added Schmidt, the Giants have added Zito, which is basically a wash (not long-term, but in '07). How do you figure the Giants rotation is so superior when the Dodgers' was better last year and both teams did about the same to strengthen their rotation this year?
i guess taking the champion to a seven game series(without El duque) doesnt mean anything
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:but i think it's laughable to even consider saying their rotation is better than ours.
Funny, because the Dodgers' starters had a 4.29 ERA last year, while the Giants' had a 4.58. The Dodgers have added Schmidt, the Giants have added Zito, which is basically a wash (not long-term, but in '07). How do you figure the Giants rotation is so superior when the Dodgers' was better last year and both teams did about the same to strengthen their rotation this year?
first, don't feed me that crap about zito and schmidt being a wash. It's simply BS, schmidt has become mediocre. That 16 K game last year was it for him. I think it's more that our rotation had serious injuries, not to mention that ERA is counting Matt Cain's horrid first couple months, when his ERA was up over 7. Which Cain do you honestly think will show up this season? I highly doubt his ERA is gonna be over 7.
TailgateTiger Wrote:i guess taking the champion to a seven game series(without El duque) doesnt mean anything
i guess, that's a pretty good argument. Can't refute that.
A 6.15 ERA is bad no matter where you pitch, AND his ERA was almost a full run higher on the road then it was at home in 2002. The comparison is legit, Hampton was one of the better pitchers in all of baseball before he signed that huge contract and he hasnt amounted to much since.
You are the only person on the planet who doesnt think Zito will be your number 1 starter all year long, he will pitch on opening day and if you make the playoffs he will be the game one starter. People dont dish out 126 million dollars for someone to be a number 2 pitcher in a rotation. Not even the freakin Yankees.
flyingswoosh Wrote:first, don't feed me that crap about zito and schmidt being a wash. It's simply BS, schmidt has become mediocre.
The numbers say otherwise. Schmidt had a slightly better year than Zito last year and has been a better pitcher over the last four years. That said, I think Schmidt may decline a little bit this year, making he and Zito about even.
Quote:I think it's more that our rotation had serious injuries, not to mention that ERA is counting Matt Cain's horrid first couple months, when his ERA was up over 7. Which Cain do you honestly think will show up this season? I highly doubt his ERA is gonna be over 7.
Derek Lowe had a 7.11 ERA in July. Just about every player goes into slumps at some point.
Anyway, over 7? Cain had a 5.28 ERA in April, 4.85 in May, and 5.47 in June. His ERA was never over 7 and while he did struggle, he wasn't as bad as you're making him out to be. And besides, at least Cain gave the Giants a full season. Who's to say the Dodgers' ERA wouldn't have been better if Billingsley was in the rotation all year? Or if they had a healthy Randy Wolf, as they do now?
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:first, don't feed me that crap about zito and schmidt being a wash. It's simply BS, schmidt has become mediocre.
The numbers say otherwise. Schmidt had a slightly better year than Zito last year and has been a better pitcher over the last four years. That said, I think Schmidt may decline a little bit this year, making he and Zito about even.
Quote:I think it's more that our rotation had serious injuries, not to mention that ERA is counting Matt Cain's horrid first couple months, when his ERA was up over 7. Which Cain do you honestly think will show up this season? I highly doubt his ERA is gonna be over 7.
Derek Lowe had a 7.11 ERA in July. Just about every player goes into slumps at some point.
Anyway, over 7? Cain had a 5.28 ERA in April, 4.85 in May, and 5.47 in June. His ERA was never over 7 and while he did struggle, he wasn't as bad as you're making him out to be. And besides, at least Cain gave the Giants a full season. Who's to say the Dodgers' ERA wouldn't have been better if Billingsley was in the rotation all year? Or if they had a healthy Randy Wolf, as they do now?
Cain's ERA was over 7 when the Giants went into Minute Maid. They brought him out of the Pen to pitch 2 shutout innings. Don't doubt my knowledge of cain. I think i know what i'm talking about.
Secondly, look at Schmidt after the 16 K game. He threw 3 very good games after that, but in those 3 games his K's were down and any Giants fan could tell he wasn't the same. Finally it caught up to him and he crapped out. Look at his post-all star game stats and his stats from 2005, that's the Schmidt you'll see this season.
umm, randy wolf isn't much of a pitcher.
Quote:Cain's ERA was over 7 when the Giants went into Minute Maid. They brought him out of the Pen to pitch 2 shutout innings. Don't doubt my knowledge of cain. I think i know what i'm talking about.
Okay, but Cain's ERA was only over 7 once, and that was after a game against the Cubs on May 10th. His ERA wasn't over 7 for the first couple of months, like you said earlier. But, we're arguing semantics. The fact is Cain had one really bad month, just like Lowe. Both will be good pitchers next year.
Quote:Secondly, look at Schmidt after the 16 K game. He threw 3 very good games after that, but in those 3 games his K's were down and any Giants fan could tell he wasn't the same. Finally it caught up to him and he crapped out. Look at his post-all star game stats and his stats from 2005, that's the Schmidt you'll see this season.
I agree he's declining, but I still think he's got at least one good year left.
Quote:umm, randy wolf isn't much of a pitcher.
Wolf is a very servicable pitcher when healthy. But they're not really counting on Wolf anyway. They've got other options. Hong Chih Kou pitched pretty well for them when they put him in the rotation late in the year.
here's the thing, what do you think is good? You say schmidt has one more good year left. What does that mean?
flyingswoosh Wrote:here's the thing, what do you think is good? You say schmidt has one more good year left. What does that mean?
12-16 wins, 3.50-3.75 ERA, 200 IP.
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:here's the thing, what do you think is good? You say schmidt has one more good year left. What does that mean?
12-14 wins, 3.50-3.75 ERA, 200 IP.
no way. he definitely won't do that. The sad thing about schmidt is, he has to be perfect if wants to pitch well.
I think it comes down to this, we have 2 top of the rotation starters and they don't. Lowe is their best, most consistent pitcher, and he's at best a #2.
flyingswoosh Wrote:I think it comes down to this, we have 2 top of the rotation starters and they don't. Lowe is their best, most consistent pitcher, and he's at best a #2.
You're assuming Cain develops into an ace. I guess that's a reasonable assumption, but he has not proven himself to be a top-of-the-rotation starter, at least not yet. He's still young and could have some more up-and-downs.
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:I think it comes down to this, we have 2 top of the rotation starters and they don't. Lowe is their best, most consistent pitcher, and he's at best a #2.
You're assuming Cain develops into an ace. I guess that's a reasonable assumption, but he has not proven himself to be a top-of-the-rotation starter, at least not yet. He's still young and could have some more up-and-downs.
hey, i'll be the 1st to admit that we have a whole bunch of 'ifs.' But you know what, every team has ifs. Every season there are a couple teams whose ifs all work out, why can't the giants finally be that team?
flyingswoosh Wrote:hey, i'll be the 1st to admit that we have a whole bunch of 'ifs.' But you know what, every team has ifs. Every season there are a couple teams whose ifs all work out, why can't the giants finally be that team?
Nothing wrong with dreaming big. I've been trying to rationalize in my mind why 2007 could be the Braves' year, though it's a little harder this year to do that. ;(
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:hey, i'll be the 1st to admit that we have a whole bunch of 'ifs.' But you know what, every team has ifs. Every season there are a couple teams whose ifs all work out, why can't the giants finally be that team?
Nothing wrong with dreaming big. I've been trying to rationalize in my mind why 2007 could be the Braves' year, though it's a little harder this year to do that. ;(
i feel you, most fans essentially think the same way.