brief and to the point. Why don't we severely limit any hand gun or weapon that doesn't tie in with hunting. I totally understand the bonding between a father and child when it comes to hunting, but I don't understand the need for semi-automatic AK-47's. What do you want to give the bird a heart attack if you don't kill it. We need common sense gun laws. But that's the problem with the right, common sense sometimes evades them. They want to have Teflon coated bullets on the market. It makes no sense.
Quote:Why don't we severely limit any hand gun or weapon that doesn't tie in with hunting.
Because it is not just about hunting. It is also about protecting the rights of the people, from their own government if need be.
I seriously question the need for anyone that believes the 2nd Amendment is about hunting to vote.
Machiavelli Wrote:brief and to the point. Why don't we severely limit any hand gun or weapon that doesn't tie in with hunting. I totally understand the bonding between a father and child when it comes to hunting, but I don't understand the need for semi-automatic AK-47's. What do you want to give the bird a heart attack if you don't kill it. We need common sense gun laws. But that's the problem with the right, common sense sometimes evades them. They want to have Teflon coated bullets on the market. It makes no sense.
I don't own a gun, but I do want and believe in the option. It's a helluva lot harder to beat out-of-control government forces back with phone books and string cheese than bullets.
Sooo, we want Teflon coated bullets to attack the govt. when they try to
git our guns. Jesus, you guys are far far right.
Quote:It is also about protecting the rights of the people, from their own government if need be.
"our moderate moderator" We need common sense gun laws.[/i]
Machiavelli Wrote:Sooo, we want Teflon coated bullets to attack the govt. when they try to git our guns. Jesus, you guys are far far right.
Yeah, look at us. Taking the same stance as the Founding Fathers. Bunch of whackos we are.
And no, we don't need guns to protect ourselves from the government when they come to take said guns away (EDIT: Upon further reflection...maybe we do). We may need guns, however, when the government decides that eminent domain for a public
purpose now means that the cozy 2-bedroom shack on an acre of land is a waste of space and that property is better served under ownership of the collective.
Or that privacy extends only to the outside of your skull.
When those types of things happen, it's the responsibility of the citizenry to stand up and scream change. When such things cannot be changed peaceably, other alternatives may be necessary.
It sounds extremely radical, but
that is the purpose of the second amendment.
I swear to God. Hand on the bible variety I never thought about guns this way. I've always thought about the government as us. Government of the people, for the people, by the people. I always thought of the NRA as an offshoot of the KKK. Seriously. Never in my wildest imagination could I think the way you guys are thinking. Eye opener.
The government is the people. This is one fallacy in the liberals' arguments, that there is no need for guns because the people couldn't defeat tanks, Stykers, etc. Well, those troops that drive the tanks, Bradleys, Strykers, etc., ....they are the government as well. They are citizens as well. Don't assume that just because someone orders them to go into a US City and take it over that they will comply.
Machiavelli Wrote:I swear to God. Hand on the bible variety I never thought about guns this way.
Yet you call us narrow-minded.
Machiavelli Wrote:I've always thought about the government as us. Government of the people, for the people, by the people.
You and your ilk scream and cry about the Bush Administration's power grabs and yet you never once considered the idea of an out of control government existing far outside the boundaries set for it by the people?
Machiavelli Wrote:I always thought of the NRA as an offshoot of the KKK.
I was a member of the NRA for a few years (during Clinton). I must've missed the memo about cleaning the earth of minorities.
I think you're not allowed to lecture us about beliefs. Ever, ever again. Ever.
Machiavelli Wrote:"our moderate moderator" We need common sense gun laws.
Who claimed that I was moderate? I'm a libertarian.
Machiavelli Wrote:I always thought of the NRA as an offshoot of the KKK. Seriously. Never in my wildest imagination could I think the way you guys are thinking. Eye opener.
The fact the you think that ways goes a long way in explaining why you don't trust the NRA, but the fact is that the NRA is not an offshoot of the KKK. That's what you get for getting your facts from Micheal Moore. Throw that notion away and then think about the issue.
The NRA may not be an offshoot of the KKK, but it is definitely racist.
uhmump95 Wrote:The NRA may not be an offshoot of the KKK, but it is definitely racist.
Yeah, how Al?
uhmump95 Wrote:The NRA may not be an offshoot of the KKK, but it is definitely racist.
Really? Please explain, as I am not a member nore do I keep up with their practices.
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:How so?
Because I said so ;-)
I have no problems with an organization that wants to protect our rights, but the NRA uses fear(ie. The drug dealers, pimps, and gang bangers have their guns so us good people need to keep ours as well). Might as well change that to "The niggas and wetbacks have guns so us white people need to join NRA to protect ourselves from them.
uhmump95 Wrote:Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:How so?
Because I said so ;-)
I have no problems with an organization that wants to protect our rights, but the NRA uses fear(ie. The drug dealers, pimps, and gang bangers have their guns so us good people need to keep ours as well). Might as well change that to "The niggas and wetbacks have guns so us white people need to join NRA to protect ourselves from them.
That is a stretch. Now, can you give us some actual proof, or are you just going to continue with your constant stereotyping of any group that you have issues with.
uhmump95 Wrote:Might as well change that to "The niggas and wetbacks have guns so us white people need to join NRA to protect ourselves from them.
But they didn't, you did.
uhmump95 Wrote:I have no problems with an organization that wants to protect our rights, but the NRA uses fear(ie. The drug dealers, pimps, and gang bangers have their guns so us good people need to keep ours as well). Might as well change that to "The niggas and wetbacks have guns so us white people need to join NRA to protect ourselves from them.
I look at that as the criminals have their guns so we should arm ourselves. Surely you don't think all "niggas and wetbacks" are drug dealers, pimps, and gang bangers, do you? I also have never seen them say, "white criminals, yur ok wit us".
GOD people, why is it that when an argument is lost, generalization is just around the damn corner?
Machiavelli Wrote:Sooo, we want Teflon coated bullets to attack the govt.
One more thing, and a piece of info readily available from sources not named Michael Moore:
[quote]Although a myth persists that the Teflon is there to either penetrate "bullet-proof" vests more effectively, or protect the bore of the firearm that fires it, Dr. Kopsch himself has testified that the Teflon actually reduces these bullets' penetration in Kevlar
...
No law enforcement personnel have yet been killed by this type of armor piercing round when wearing appropriate body armor, making the nickname
Lethemeul Wrote:I don't own a gun, but I do want and believe in the option. It's a helluva lot harder to beat out-of-control government forces back with phone books and string cheese than bullets.
That's it, I am personally revoking your white boy status. Please turn in your hood and sheet at the nearest GOP HQ. How can any self respecting white guy not own a gun so that you can wipe out the gang-bangers, pimps, & Dealers?
GrayBeard Wrote:Lethemeul Wrote:I don't own a gun, but I do want and believe in the option. It's a helluva lot harder to beat out-of-control government forces back with phone books and string cheese than bullets.
How can any self respecting white guy not own a gun so that you can wipe out the gang-bangers, pimps, & Dealers?
I live in Johnston County. My neighbors got me covered. ;-)
Here's
PROOF of the NRA's involvement with the KKK. Look at how they spell the innocent kid's corner..... I mean Korner if you get my drift.
http://www.nra-kkk.org/
Quote:Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed seems straight forward to me.
As far as concealed carry:
States with right-to-carry laws have lower overall violent crime rates, compared to states without right-to-carry laws. In states whose laws respect the citizen's right-to-carry guns for self defense the total violent crime is 13% lower, homicide is 3% lower, robbery is 26% lower and aggravated assault is 7% lower. (Data: Crime in the United States 1996, FBI Uniform Crime Reports)
this might scare some of you but i not in favor of gun control.
Machiavelli Wrote:Here's PROOF of the NRA's involvement with the KKK. Look at how they spell the innocent kid's corner..... I mean Korner if you get my drift.
http://www.nra-kkk.org/
Are you on crack? The NRA is the National Rifle Association, NOT the National Rifleman's Association.
Damn Dogger, you pwn yourself every time you post.
Damn, I can't believe you teach with those research skills.
Are you trying to tell me this isn't a site from the NRA? There isn't a Krazy Kid's Korner? Are you sure?
It's not french benefits..........................
There is no leaning tower of pizza...............
It was a joke dmbass....................
I didn't think anyone would fall for it. I knew I could count on you!!! lmfao
Machiavelli Wrote:Are you trying to tell me this isn't a site from the NRA? There isn't a Krazy Kid's Korner? Are you sure?
Lemon) I can't access the site due to my employer's Orwellian firewall.
Profit) WTF does this have to do with gun control?
Banana Hammock) WHEEE, random numbering is fun.
Machiavelli Wrote:It's not french benefits..........................
There is no leaning tower of pizza...............
It was a joke dmbass....................
I didn't think anyone would fall for it. I knew I could count on you!!! lmfao
Never know what to expect from you. You did think the 2nd Amendment had something to do with hunting, ya know.
In all seriousness...........................
I appreciate every one of these comments. I never understood the other side's arguments when it came to this argument. I think I'm officially neutral when it comes to gun control now.
no I was just pulling your leg Reb. Did you like the little kid with the hand gun though? I thought it was SOOOOO over the top you would see through it.
Well, I think there is a difference between and UZI and a 20 gauge. I was reading something on MSNBC about a guy going into a bar and blowing three people away. He had a bullet proof vest.... yada yada yada
Same story thousand times over and it just got me thinking. Why in the hell do we have such a proliferation of assault weapons. Hence the post.
Machiavelli Wrote:no I was just pulling your leg Reb. Did you like the little kid with the hand gun though? I thought it was SOOOOO over the top you would see through it.
I didn't read it. I saw "National Rifleman's Association" at the top and knew it was bull****.
Not to mention, the nra-kkk. If there was a section like that it would more than likely look like this:
http://www.nra.org/kkk.
Machiavelli Wrote:Well, I think there is a difference between and UZI and a 20 gauge. I was reading something on MSNBC about a guy going into a bar and blowing three people away. He had a bullet proof vest.... yada yada yada
Same story thousand times over and it just got me thinking. Why in the hell do we have such a proliferation of assault weapons. Hence the post.
Your wife is alone at the house. 4 thugs bust in on her with the intent of harming her. Would you prefer her to have:
A) a 20 gauge that's heavy, kicks hard, and hard to maneuver
or
B) a 9MM UZI sub machine gun, small, light, not that bad of a kick, and very easy to maneuver?
Me? Well, I'd prefer her to have a Mac-10 or an HK, but I'll go with an UZI.
Hey everyone go to the site that's linked. Reb's trying to tell us he only read the National Rifleman's Association! You didn't see the kid pointing the gun at you huh? This is getting funnier by the minute. God Reb your funny. Quit being so uptight, you fell for the joke. No harm done.
Don't know what's funnier though. You falling for the joke or the denial.
RebelKev Wrote:Machiavelli Wrote:Well, I think there is a difference between and UZI and a 20 gauge. I was reading something on MSNBC about a guy going into a bar and blowing three people away. He had a bullet proof vest.... yada yada yada
Same story thousand times over and it just got me thinking. Why in the hell do we have such a proliferation of assault weapons. Hence the post.
Your wife is alone at the house. 4 thugs bust in on her with the intent of harming her. Would you prefer her to have:
A) a 20 gauge that's heavy, kicks hard, and hard to maneuver
or
B) a 9MM UZI sub machine gun, small, light, not that bad of a kick, and very easy to maneuver?
Me? Well, I'd prefer her to have a Mac-10 or an HK, but I'll go with an UZI.
or C) a phone with which she can call the police and have them show up in 15 minutes.
Isn't there some statistic that says your 4 times as likely to die a violent death if you own a gun though. I have my dad's .22. That's it. Out of reach of the children too.
Machiavelli Wrote:Isn't there some statistic that says your 4 times as likely to die a violent death if you own a gun though. I have my dad's .22. That's it. Out of reach of the children too.
Yeah, because if 4 thugs bust down my front door with guns, they'll be dead.
classic.....................
Here's a sign for you, Mach:
![[Image: sign.jpg]](http://usmilnet.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/sign.jpg)
Should I put it in my front yard?????
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Quote:Why don't we severely limit any hand gun or weapon that doesn't tie in with hunting.
Because it is not just about hunting. It is also about protecting the rights of the people, from their own government if need be.
While I agree with you completely do you really think we could protect ourselves against a government with our military? I don't.
To the original poster, I hate to quote the NRA but it's true, "guns don't kill people, people kill people" that is true for a 9mm or an AK-47.
JTiger Wrote:While I agree with you completely do you really think we could protect ourselves against a government with our military? I don't.
...then you are one of those Democrats that thinks the military is comprised of mindless robots.
RebelKev Wrote:JTiger Wrote:While I agree with you completely do you really think we could protect ourselves against a government with our military? I don't.
...then you are one of those Democrats that thinks the military is comprised of mindless robots.
i actually think the civs could whip the military given the right equipment and the right minds.
i'm against gun controls in all forms. My parents are conservatives like me, but they have never wanted a gun in the house. I, on the other hand, have always had the idea that i'd feel safer with a gun in the house. While the cops are good people, i would feel a lot better if i could be proactive in those 15 minutes that it would the cops to come around. Whether i have to do it with an assault rifle or a pistol, is of no concern to me. People can kill people with both. I would also feel even safer in public if it were easier for people to carry concealed weapons.
I dont know the exact law, but handguns are virtually banned in Chicago. Has been that way for almost 20 years. Last year crimes rates were at a 30 year low. They also do gun drop offs, where you can bring your gun in and get cash for it. That goes for rifles all the way down to BBs. Slice that however you want to.
Machiavelli Wrote:I have my dad's .22.
When i was 12, my father bought me a .22. He taught me how to care for it and how to use it safely. I still have it 49 years later. For 49 years, it has been MY gun. That you refer to the one you possess as your DAD'S gun indicates to me that your dad sadly neglected an important part of your education. I no longer hunt, but I still treasure the ownership of my first gun.
As for the link between the NRA and the KKK, it is as real as the link between the Democrat party and al-Qeada.
Machiavelli Wrote:Isn't there some statistic that says your 4 times as likely to die a violent death if you own a gun though. I have my dad's .22. That's it. Out of reach of the children too.
I have seen that too. Its not necessarily you that will die a violent death, but you or a family member is 4x more likely to be killed by a gun you keep in your home rather than an intruder.