The facts are against him. All our presidents have been men from a Protestant English-Scotch-Welsh-Irish background. Only Catholic Kennedy and German Eisenhower have broken that pattern. Would America be ready for an Italian-American president? I seriously doubt that society is ready at all for a female or an African American president but how ready are we to cross ethnic lines?
moloch_322 Wrote:The facts are against him. All our presidents have been men from a Protestant English-Scotch-Welsh-Irish background. Only Catholic Kennedy and German Eisenhower have broken that pattern. Would America be ready for an Italian-American president? I seriously doubt that society is ready at all for a female or an African American president but how ready are we to cross ethnic lines?
Ahh, but what about an African-American woman that was adopted by an Italian father and Scottish-Irish mother? Hmmmm........
Do white people everywhere outside of East Texas keep up with this?
I could ask a woman in Kilgore (where I was raised) with the last name Fitzgerald about her ancestry and she would say "I don't know. I am a mutt" But when I was in Michigan and asked a woman with the last name Hemstra about her ancestry and I would get a half hour essay about being Dutch and Irish on her fathers side while her mother';s side is English, German with a little bit of Welsh thrown in.
That's crazy
I say why not Guiliani.....
If he is running against Hillary, I would vote for him in a second. Quite frankly I dont care about your ethnic background, race or sex, as long as your policies are in line with what I believe in.
I think he will have a huge obstacle being Pro-Choice. Unfortunately the Republican Party has kind of locked itself into that paradigm.
Everybody seems to be in love with Obama and if he ran with Oprah they would probably win in a landslide so I am not so sure how much skin color means now a days except for the few remaining card carrying idiots.
uhmump95 Wrote:Do white people everywhere outside of East Texas keep up with this?
I could ask a woman in Kilgore (where I was raised) with the last name Fitzgerald about her ancestry and she would say "I don't know. I am a mutt" But when I was in Michigan and asked a woman with the last name Hemstra about her ancestry and I would get a half hour essay about being Dutch and Irish on her fathers side while her mother';s side is English, German with a little bit of Welsh thrown in.
That's crazy
I say why not Guiliani.....
I would love to have the opportunity to vote for Condi, but people are saying she isn't black enough. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
ShoreBuc Wrote:If he is running against Hillary, I would vote for him in a second. Quite frankly I dont care about your ethnic background, race or sex, as long as your policies are in line with what I believe in.
I think he will have a huge obstacle being Pro-Choice. Unfortunately the Republican Party has kind of locked itself into that paradigm.
Everybody seems to be in love with Obama and if he ran with Oprah they would probably win in a landslide so I am not so sure how much skin color means now a days except for the few remaining card carrying idiots.
I'd vote for RobertN over Hillary.
This White Anglo Saxon Protestant would vote for Condi in a heart beat.
ShoreBuc Wrote:I am not so sure how much skin color means now a days except for the few remaining card carrying idiots.
I think that there are much more than a few card carrying idiots that still consider religion, race, sex, and ethnicity a very important factor in electing a politician - especially for president.
RebelKev Wrote:ShoreBuc Wrote:If he is running against Hillary, I would vote for him in a second. Quite frankly I dont care about your ethnic background, race or sex, as long as your policies are in line with what I believe in.
I think he will have a huge obstacle being Pro-Choice. Unfortunately the Republican Party has kind of locked itself into that paradigm.
Everybody seems to be in love with Obama and if he ran with Oprah they would probably win in a landslide so I am not so sure how much skin color means now a days except for the few remaining card carrying idiots.
I'd vote for RobertN over Hillary.
lmfao lmfao I think I would too
ShoreBuc Wrote:This White Anglo Saxon Protestant would vote for Condi in a heart beat.
She was traded in the racial draft, so she's not black anyway.
uhmump95 Wrote:I say why not Guiliani.....
Can anyone tell me what, outside of 9/11, would make Rudi a viable option for president? He's basically Joe Lieberman on the issues and he's as liberal as the day is long on social issues.
The memory of 9/11 has faded enough to the electorate to where doing well when it happened isn't going to motivate them to vote for someone. And Rudy's best day was 9/11.
I don't believe he can win the primary.
Ninerfan1 Wrote:uhmump95 Wrote:I say why not Guiliani.....
Can anyone tell me what, outside of 9/11, would make Rudi a viable option for president? He's basically Joe Lieberman on the issues and he's as liberal as the day is long on social issues.
I don't believe he can win the primary.
He did a damn good job in New York City after Dinkins incompetence.
RebelKev Wrote:Ninerfan1 Wrote:uhmump95 Wrote:I say why not Guiliani.....
Can anyone tell me what, outside of 9/11, would make Rudi a viable option for president? He's basically Joe Lieberman on the issues and he's as liberal as the day is long on social issues.
I don't believe he can win the primary.
He did a damn good job in New York City after Dinkins incompetence.
At what Kev? I'll give him cleaning up the streets and dealing with crime, but going hard on crime doesn't get you elected president.
He's pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro embryonic stem cell research. Does someone like that get the republican nomination? I know I wouldn't vote for him in a primary and it would be hard to in a general.
RebelKev Wrote:ShoreBuc Wrote:If he is running against Hillary, I would vote for him in a second. Quite frankly I dont care about your ethnic background, race or sex, as long as your policies are in line with what I believe in.
I think he will have a huge obstacle being Pro-Choice. Unfortunately the Republican Party has kind of locked itself into that paradigm.
Everybody seems to be in love with Obama and if he ran with Oprah they would probably win in a landslide so I am not so sure how much skin color means now a days except for the few remaining card carrying idiots.
I'd vote for RobertN over Hillary.
given the choice i'd vote for mickey mouse before these two ;-) lmfao
Ninerfan1 Wrote:At what Kev? I'll give him cleaning up the streets and dealing with crime, but going hard on crime doesn't get you elected president.
He's pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro embryonic stem cell research. Does someone like that get the republican nomination? I know I wouldn't vote for him in a primary and it would be hard to in a general.
Damn man, I didn't say "I'd" vote for him. I just said he was good for NYC. What's good for NYC isn't necessarily good for Birmingham, Al.
RebelKev Wrote:Ninerfan1 Wrote:At what Kev? I'll give him cleaning up the streets and dealing with crime, but going hard on crime doesn't get you elected president.
He's pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro embryonic stem cell research. Does someone like that get the republican nomination? I know I wouldn't vote for him in a primary and it would be hard to in a general.
Damn man, I didn't say "I'd" vote for him. I just said he was good for NYC. What's good for NYC isn't necessarily good for Birmingham, Al.
I wasn't saying you would. I was just asking what he did that was good.
In the end I don't think Rudi can get the nod. I like him national defense and taxes, but past that I don't agree with him on much.
Ninerfan1 Wrote:He's pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro embryonic stem cell research. Does someone like that get the republican nomination? I know I wouldn't vote for him in a primary and it would be hard to in a general.
As a moderate, I think he is perfect! Let the person decide how to live his/her own life! Stem cell research?!? You mean we might be able to find a cure for alzheizers, parkinsons, or the dozens of other diseases that cause nerve and brain cells to to die? How terrible!
However, with the current republican "base" being so far right leaning I can't help but agree, he would have a lot of trouble getting the nomination. He would, however, guarantee a republican president being inaugurated in January of 2009, IMHO.
mlb Wrote:As a moderate, I think he is perfect! Let the person decide how to live his/her own life! Stem cell research?!? You mean we might be able to find a cure for alzheizers, parkinsons, or the dozens of other diseases that cause nerve and brain cells to to die? How terrible!
However, with the current republican "base" being so far right leaning I can't help but agree, he would have a lot of trouble getting the nomination. He would, however, guarantee a republican president being inaugurated in January of 2009, IMHO.
Conservatives aren't against stem cell research. Where do you get your facts? They are against harvesting embryos for the soul purpose of being stem cell machines. Also, there is a dark side to that science. Many are finding tumors associated with it. Trust me, the market will take care of this problem with adult stem cells. This current issue is one pushed by the abortion crowd.
RebelKev Wrote:Conservatives aren't against stem cell research. Where do you get your facts? They are against harvesting embryos for the soul purpose of being stem cell machines. Also, there is a dark side to that science. Many are finding tumors associated with it. Trust me, the market will take care of this problem with adult stem cells. This current issue is one pushed by the abortion crowd.
While we wait to get a working strain of adult stem cells scientists don't make the significant progress that could have been happening for years. The limited number of stem cells that were in "stock" (already had been harvested) before Bush signed the deal tying 1 hand behind their back has held back these scientists by years.
mlb Wrote:While we wait to get a working strain of adult stem cells scientists don't make the significant progress that could have been happening for years. The limited number of stem cells that were in "stock" (already had been harvested) before Bush signed the deal tying 1 hand behind their back has held back these scientists by years.
Man, I'm fairly liberal on social issues, but no way in HELL will I ever support harvesting an embryo's stem cells. That's a little too much Nazi Germany for this Southerner to handle.
Besides, can you show me a success from it? I can show you several from adult. Face it, just like any other government handout, these "researchers" are pushing this to get government funding. They can't make it any other way because the corporate world works on success. Adult stem cell research IS funded by corporate America. Ever though about that?
RebelKev Wrote:mlb Wrote:While we wait to get a working strain of adult stem cells scientists don't make the significant progress that could have been happening for years. The limited number of stem cells that were in "stock" (already had been harvested) before Bush signed the deal tying 1 hand behind their back has held back these scientists by years.
Man, I'm fairly liberal on social issues, but no way in HELL will I ever support harvesting an embryo's stem cells. That's a little too much Nazi Germany for this Southerner to handle.
Besides, can you show me a success from it? I can show you several from adult. Face it, just like any other government handout, these "researchers" are pushing this to get government funding. They can't make it any other way because the corporate world works on success. Adult stem cell research IS funded by corporate America. Ever though about that?
it is possible to get stem cells from places other than embryos (i.e. umbilical cords)
niuhuskie84 Wrote:it is possible to get stem cells from places other than embryos (i.e. umbilical cords)
Ok, show me a conservative that's against that. Also, the same issue applies. Show me a success. ....and not one that's skewed.
moloch_322 Wrote:The facts are against him. All our presidents have been men from a Protestant English-Scotch-Welsh-Irish background. Only Catholic Kennedy and German Eisenhower have broken that pattern. Would America be ready for an Italian-American president? I seriously doubt that society is ready at all for a female or an African American president but how ready are we to cross ethnic lines?
I think it is less "can society handle this", and more "can the old money establishment handle this". Society doesn't pick the candidates, they only pick the winner.
RebelKev Wrote:niuhuskie84 Wrote:it is possible to get stem cells from places other than embryos (i.e. umbilical cords)
Ok, show me a conservative that's against that. Also, the same issue applies. Show me a success. ....and not one that's skewed.
i never said any were against it. just pointing out a fact.
as far as success, medical advances dont happen overnight. sometimes they can take decades. but that dosent mean you give up.
niuhuskie84 Wrote:RebelKev Wrote:niuhuskie84 Wrote:it is possible to get stem cells from places other than embryos (i.e. umbilical cords)
Ok, show me a conservative that's against that. Also, the same issue applies. Show me a success. ....and not one that's skewed.
i never said any were against it. just pointing out a fact.
as far as success, medical advances dont happen overnight. sometimes they can take decades. but that dosent mean you give up.
Well, they're happening as we speak with adult stem cells. Have you asked yourself why there is no hoopla about that? I know, but I'm sure you don't.
RebelKev Wrote:niuhuskie84 Wrote:RebelKev Wrote:niuhuskie84 Wrote:it is possible to get stem cells from places other than embryos (i.e. umbilical cords)
Ok, show me a conservative that's against that. Also, the same issue applies. Show me a success. ....and not one that's skewed.
i never said any were against it. just pointing out a fact.
as far as success, medical advances dont happen overnight. sometimes they can take decades. but that dosent mean you give up.
Well, they're happening as we speak with adult stem cells. Have you asked yourself why there is no hoopla about that? I know, but I'm sure you don't.
let me guess. liberal media?
to be honest, i really havent been following the issue that closely at all.
niuhuskie84 Wrote:let me guess. liberal media?
to be honest, i really havent been following the issue that closely at all.
Haven't really heard them take a side on the issue. It IS, however, a liberal agenda.
Fanatical Wrote:moloch_322 Wrote:The facts are against him. All our presidents have been men from a Protestant English-Scotch-Welsh-Irish background. Only Catholic Kennedy and German Eisenhower have broken that pattern. Would America be ready for an Italian-American president? I seriously doubt that society is ready at all for a female or an African American president but how ready are we to cross ethnic lines?
I think it is less "can society handle this", and more "can the old money establishment handle this". Society doesn't pick the candidates, they only pick the winner.
Don't forget the major corporate honchos!
A lot of Republicans might oppose Giuliani in the primaries for alll the reasons given, but if he got the nomination he would get their vote in the general election. Consider the alternative.
At this point I like Rice, Guilani, Romney, McCain.
I'm with niner on this, Giuliani won't win the Republican nomination once the base sees where he stands on some of the hot button issues. I'd like a moderate, but the primary system is weighted against a moderate from winning the nomination.
I don't know a whole lot about his politics, so I'd have to look into them further, but I don't think I'll have to.
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:I'm with niner on this, Giuliani won't win the Republican nomination once the base sees where he stands on some of the hot button issues. I'd like a moderate, but the primary system is weighted against a moderate from winning the nomination.
I don't know a whole lot about his politics, so I'd have to look into them further, but I don't think I'll have to.
Primaries bring out the base of both party's so it will be hard for a candidate like Guiliani to win. We will most likely select a mediocre candidate that says all the right things and they will get their clock cleaned by Hillary and the Clinton political machine in the general election.
mlb Wrote:Stem cell research?!? You mean we might be able to find a cure for alzheizers, parkinsons, or the dozens of other diseases that cause nerve and brain cells to to die? How terrible!
No need to be a jackass mlb. I like how you took "embryonic" out of your answer to me.
What's always funny to me is how "moderates" like mlb try to say that if you're against embryonic stem cell research, research that has produced
no evidence of treating these diseases by the way, that you obviously just want people to suffer and die.
As kev said conservatives have no problem with adult stem cell research or stem cells from umbilical chords. You know, research that has
actually produced treatment options.
ShoreBuc Wrote:We will most likely select a mediocre candidate that says all the right things and they will get their clock cleaned by Hillary and the Clinton political machine in the general election.
I disagree. the party machine won't back a candidate that can't win. That's why I think McCain will get the nomination. Is more conservative than people give him credit for, and that can come out in a primary.
I'd love Rice to run but I don't think she will.
And one thing is for sure, if Hillary is on the ticket in '08 the repbuclican base will come out in full force no matter who the R nominee is.
I think he can get the nomination, but no way he wins the general election. He won't play very well in the south with pro-abortion and gun control.
However, if Hilllary gets the dem nomination, whoever else runs against her wins.
Ninerfan1 Wrote:ShoreBuc Wrote:We will most likely select a mediocre candidate that says all the right things and they will get their clock cleaned by Hillary and the Clinton political machine in the general election.
I disagree. the party machine won't back a candidate that can't win. That's why I think McCain will get the nomination. Is more conservative than people give him credit for, and that can come out in a primary.
I'd love Rice to run but I don't think she will.
And one thing is for sure, if Hillary is on the ticket in '08 the repbuclican base will come out in full force no matter who the R nominee is.
Based on the recent political maps all Hillary will need to do to win is pick up Ohio and some western states. McCain could help the Republicans win the West and Hillary will solidify the South for the Republican party.
Hillary picks Obama to run with her you will see record minority turn out in the black community that votes 90% Democrat. Question is will her handlers want two minorities on the same ticket. She will probably make a play for Florida and consider a running mate from there.
No matter who wins the Republican primary you will see the entire base energized by a Hillary run. I know I will be donating more money then I ever have and working at a grass roots level like a maniac to keep her out of the White House.
Could Bill Clinton run as her VP? If so, that would energize the democratic base, no doubt.
Ninerfan1 Wrote:At what Kev? I'll give him cleaning up the streets and dealing with crime, but going hard on crime doesn't get you elected president.
He's pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro embryonic stem cell research. Does someone like that get the republican nomination? I know I wouldn't vote for him in a primary and it would be hard to in a general.
Maybe... maybe not...
But SWEET JESUS it would do this Libertarian's heart good to see him elected. He trends fairly Libertarian, and doesn't walk the straight party line. My kinda guy.
Ninerfan1 Wrote:I disagree. the party machine won't back a candidate that can't win. That's why I think McCain will get the nomination. Is more conservative than people give him credit for, and that can come out in a primary.
I'd love Rice to run but I don't think she will.
And one thing is for sure, if Hillary is on the ticket in '08 the repbuclican base will come out in full force no matter who the R nominee is.
I don't think I could vote for McCain. He's got some SERIOUS 'splaining to do on why he started the initiative.... and ultimately got it passed... to eliminated DSL line sharing requirements. Why doesn't he just hike DSL prices nationwide and give every telco in this country a monopoly game piece, get out of jail free card, and free parking. It'd have the same end result.
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I don't think I could vote for McCain. He's got some SERIOUS 'splaining to do on why he started the initiative.... and ultimately got it passed... to eliminated DSL line sharing requirements. Why doesn't he just hike DSL prices nationwide and give every telco in this country a monopoly game piece, get out of jail free card, and free parking. It'd have the same end result.
Not to mention CFR which I view as unconstitutional as hell.
mlb Wrote:Could Bill Clinton run as her VP? If so, that would energize the democratic base, no doubt.
One of them would have to move. The President and Vice President cannot come from the same state.... Of course, Hillary proved that's not a problem.
RebelKev Wrote:Not to mention CFR which I view as unconstitutional as hell.
If you can get the NRA and the ACLU to agree that something is bad, you've got to think it is bad.
SouthGAEagle Wrote:mlb Wrote:Could Bill Clinton run as her VP? If so, that would energize the democratic base, no doubt.
One of them would have to move. The President and Vice President cannot come from the same state.... Of course, Hillary proved that's not a problem.
Even if they did I don't believe Bill could run. He's constitutionally prohibited from holding the office of the president again, and since the VP in next in line I don't believe he'd be allowed.