I have a former pastor who now works for this organization. I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say.
So, which is worse, the whole gay sex thing, or the fact that he is contributing to the overpopulation problem by having five children?
OwlJacket Wrote:So, which is worse, the whole gay sex thing, or the fact that he is contributing to the overpopulation problem by having five children?
Who says there is overpopulation?
DrTorch Wrote:Who says there is overpopulation?
Who thinks the world can support continued exponential growth?
OwlJacket Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:Who says there is overpopulation?
Who thinks the world can support continued exponential growth?
With the selfishness of many from the Western societies, (couple that don't have children ;-) ) we are not contributing to overpopulation. Instead, I believe that the muslim population is going to take over the world.
DrTorch Wrote:OwlJacket Wrote:So, which is worse, the whole gay sex thing, or the fact that he is contributing to the overpopulation problem by having five children?
Who says there is overpopulation?
Well Europe has about a 0% population growth and is relying on immigration. The United States population growth is due more to immigration then Child birth so if you want to talk about over population go talk to India, China and the Third World.
Disease, Famine and War seem to have a way of cutting that population.
ShoreBuc Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:OwlJacket Wrote:So, which is worse, the whole gay sex thing, or the fact that he is contributing to the overpopulation problem by having five children?
Who says there is overpopulation?
Well Europe has about a 0% population growth and is relying on immigration. The United States population growth is due more to immigration then Child birth so if you want to talk about over population go talk to India, China and the Third World.
Disease, Famine and War seem to have a way of cutting that population.
Stop ruining oj's reasons not to have kids.
Way to derail this topic, OJ. I thought we were talking about alleged buttsecks with preachers.
It seems odd to me that many people seems to preach to their own flaws. Stories like this make me step back and look at my own thoughts on issues. Something good can come out of this kind of stuff.
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Way to derail this topic, OJ. I thought we were talking about alleged buttsecks with preachers.
It seems odd to me that many people seems to preach to their own flaws. Stories like this make me step back and look at my own thoughts on issues. Something good can come out of this kind of stuff.
I agree with you BR, but I am saddened at the same time. These kinds of things do so much damage to the credibilty of the church. The last thing that Christians need are Christians shooting themselves in the foot.
Quote:"It made me angry that here's someone preaching about gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex," he said.
:kobe:
Haha, if you're only supposed to have sex in marriage, but marriage is not an option, is it really a sin?
Fanatical Wrote:Quote:"It made me angry that here's someone preaching about gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex," he said.
:kobe:
Haha, if you're only supposed to have sex in marriage, but marriage is not an option, is it really a sin?
When is marriage not an option?
Last two people on Earth and you have to propagate the species?
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Last two people on Earth and you have to propagate the species?
The only way that the last two people on Earth could propogate the species would be if they are man and woman, so to make it real simple, the guy takes the woman as his wife, and Bingo.
GrayBeard Wrote:Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Way to derail this topic, OJ. I thought we were talking about alleged buttsecks with preachers.
It seems odd to me that many people seems to preach to their own flaws. Stories like this make me step back and look at my own thoughts on issues. Something good can come out of this kind of stuff.
I agree with you BR, but I am saddened at the same time. These kinds of things do so much damage to the credibilty of the church. The last thing that Christians need are Christians shooting themselves in the foot.
Yeah. To be blunt, I don't know if Christian institutions outside of the Church can make it. I've seen so much corruption and hypocrisy in places like Wheaton College, Salem Communications, the SBC, even the freakin' ECFA!...that I don't know what to think. I mean BIG problems, not small theological disagreements.
It certainly gives Christians a black eye. Yet the church still persists, and changes lives. In Africa and Asia, it's doing marvelous things.
Maybe that's just the way things work in this age. Keeps us longing for a better time.
GrayBeard Wrote:The only way that the last two people on Earth could propogate the species would be if they are man and woman, so to make it real simple, the guy takes the woman as his wife, and Bingo, litters full of retarded grandchildren.
Fixed.
DrTorch Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Way to derail this topic, OJ. I thought we were talking about alleged buttsecks with preachers.
It seems odd to me that many people seems to preach to their own flaws. Stories like this make me step back and look at my own thoughts on issues. Something good can come out of this kind of stuff.
I agree with you BR, but I am saddened at the same time. These kinds of things do so much damage to the credibilty of the church. The last thing that Christians need are Christians shooting themselves in the foot.
Yeah. To be blunt, I don't know if Christian institutions outside of the Church can make it. I've seen so much corruption and hypocrisy in places like Wheaton College, Salem Communications, the SBC, even the freakin' ECFA!...that I don't know what to think. I mean BIG problems, not small theological disagreements.
It certainly gives Christians a black eye. Yet the church still persists, and changes lives. In Africa and Asia, it's doing marvelous things.
Maybe that's just the way things work in this age. Keeps us longing for a better time.
The problem with the church in America is that it is too comfortable. The persectution on the whole has been light in comparison to other areas, so the church has built beuracracy lead organizations instead of spirit lead one. Also, Christians in America have become way to friendly with worldly things. We are spiritually anemic and it shows.
RebelKev Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:The only way that the last two people on Earth could propogate the species would be if they are man and woman, so to make it real simple, the guy takes the woman as his wife, and Bingo, litters full of retarded grandchildren.
Fixed.
That would be "evolution".
GrayBeard Wrote:That would be "evolution".
No, that would be dueling Banjos and sounds of squealing pigs.
ShoreBuc Wrote:if you want to talk about over population go talk to India, China and the Third World.
Disease, Famine and War seem to have a way of cutting that population.
(1) Unfortunately, the rest of the world seems to feel an obligation to help these third world countries so that disease, famine, and war don't take care of the problem
(2) The key point is that this population growth occurs in third world countries. There is absolutely no excuse in a modern civilized society for people to contribute to the population explosion.
Freaking Baptists getting freaky.
RebelKev Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:The only way that the last two people on Earth could propogate the species would be if they are man and woman, so to make it real simple, the guy takes the woman as his wife, and Bingo, litters full of retarded grandchildren.
Fixed.
OK, the whole LOL thing is usually kind of figurative for me. In this case, I just woke up the entire office. Genuine LOL.
GrayBeard Wrote:Fanatical Wrote:Quote:"It made me angry that here's someone preaching about gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex," he said.
:kobe:
Haha, if you're only supposed to have sex in marriage, but marriage is not an option, is it really a sin?
When is marriage not an option?
with the gays
Fanatical Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:Fanatical Wrote:Quote:"It made me angry that here's someone preaching about gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex," he said.
:kobe:
Haha, if you're only supposed to have sex in marriage, but marriage is not an option, is it really a sin?
When is marriage not an option?
with the gays
They still have the right to get married, just not to someone of the same gender.
Sheesh. No rights have been violated.
GrayBeard Wrote:They still have the right to get married, just not to someone of the same gender.
Let freedom ring! I still can't believe some people think a constitutional ammendment is actually needed for something as trivial as a gay marriage.
Let gays marry. Why should the joys of losing half your assets in a divorce or sending support money to your ex and his/her lover be reserved for heterosexuals only?
OptimisticOwl Wrote:Let gays marry. Why should the joys of losing half your assets in a divorce or sending support money to your ex and his/her lover be reserved for heterosexuals only?
Civil unions, fine, marriage, which I view as a religious institution, I disagree with.
To be honest with you, I think that the government should get out of the "marriage" business to begin with. Don't liberals always bitch about the separation of Church and State? WTF?
I got news for you guys who are outside of the saving grace of Jesus Christ. On the day of judgment it isn't going to be any easier for you because some well known evangelist took a fall. Does it make you feel better about yourself because some well known evangelist or pastor or whoever has a sin problem and got caught? Do you think God is going to go easier on you?
I'll ask you again. Do you think you will escape the judgment of God because a Christian has a sin problem? Does that somehow make you just as right with God as they are??
Endzone2 Wrote:I got news for you guys who are outside of the saving grace of Jesus Christ. On the day of judgment it isn't going to be any easier for you because some well known evangelist took a fall. Does it make you feel better about yourself because some well known evangelist or pastor or whoever has a sin problem and got caught? Do you think God is going to go easier on you?
I'll ask you again. Do you think you will escape the judgment of God because a Christian has a sin problem? Does that somehow make you just as right with God as they are??
No, but this is a discussion board. It was an interesting story, so I posted it here. No one has said anything about escaping judgement or anything like that. The most that anyone has come close to anything of that sort is addressing the ironic nature of the situation.
Sounds like you're trying to cover up the mistakes of your peers by condemning others.
Quote:Sounds like you're trying to cover up the mistakes of your peers by condemning others.
Well, I never even heard of Ted Haggard until he hit the news media. So, I wouldn't really say he is my peer. If he is a Christian though, I would consider him a brother in Christ. I don't really know him. And, FYI I don't have the authority or power to condemn anyone to hell. He Jesus seemed to indicate that He didn't have that authority, but He left no doubt that His Father in heaven did in fact have that authority and power.
"Fear not them who can kill only the body, but can't touch your souls. Fear Him who hath power to cast both body and soul into hell."
Endzone2 Wrote:Quote:Sounds like you're trying to cover up the mistakes of your peers by condemning others.
Well, I never even heard of Ted Haggard until he hit the news media. So, I wouldn't really say he is my peer. If he is a Christian though, I would consider him a brother in Christ. I don't really know him. And, FYI I don't have the authority or power to condemn anyone to hell. He Jesus seemed to indicate that He didn't have that authority, but He left no doubt that His Father in heaven did in fact have that authority and power.
"Fear not them who can kill only the body, but can't touch your souls. Fear Him who hath power to cast both body and soul into hell."
You're right, you don't have the authority to actually condemn anyone to hell, but you still came in with an unneccassary hellfire and brimstone post when none of us were saying what you were implying.
Fanatical Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:They still have the right to get married, just not to someone of the same gender.
Let freedom ring! I still can't believe some people think a constitutional ammendment is actually needed for something as trivial as a gay marriage.
:shhh: You don't want to be :banned: from the board because of your radical left wing socialist views do you? ;-)
RebelKev Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:The only way that the last two people on Earth could propogate the species would be if they are man and woman, so to make it real simple, the guy takes the woman as his wife, and Bingo, litters full of retarded grandchildren.
Fixed.
Well Kev, I guess that means that you do not believe in the whole Adam and Eve thing from the Bible? Seems to me that story started with one man and one woman.....
GrayBeard Wrote:Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Way to derail this topic, OJ. I thought we were talking about alleged buttsecks with preachers.
It seems odd to me that many people seems to preach to their own flaws. Stories like this make me step back and look at my own thoughts on issues. Something good can come out of this kind of stuff.
I agree with you BR, but I am saddened at the same time. These kinds of things do so much damage to the credibilty of the church. The last thing that Christians need are Christians shooting themselves in the foot.
Kind of makes you not want to be so judgemental about the Catholic church....
uhmump95 Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Way to derail this topic, OJ. I thought we were talking about alleged buttsecks with preachers.
It seems odd to me that many people seems to preach to their own flaws. Stories like this make me step back and look at my own thoughts on issues. Something good can come out of this kind of stuff.
I agree with you BR, but I am saddened at the same time. These kinds of things do so much damage to the credibilty of the church. The last thing that Christians need are Christians shooting themselves in the foot.
Kind of makes you not want to be so judgemental about the Catholic church....
OK, OK, my problems with the Catholic church are not about the homosexual pedophilia, but with theology. I don't think I have ever made it about the scandals.
uhmump95 Wrote:Well Kev, I guess that means that you do not believe in the whole Adam and Eve thing from the Bible? Seems to me that story started with one man and one woman.....
Who said I didn't? Damn, I can't make a joke? I'm going by what I know today, not what happened when GOD's hands were on the situation.
RebelKev Wrote:uhmump95 Wrote:Well Kev, I guess that means that you do not believe in the whole Adam and Eve thing from the Bible? Seems to me that story started with one man and one woman.....
Who said I didn't? Damn, I can't make a joke? I'm going by what I know today, not what happened when GOD's hands were on the situation.
Ok, let's keep the words "hands on situation" outta this topic. ;-)
Endzone2 Wrote:Newsflash! In case some of you all didn't know it, Christians struggle with sin issues too. Just ask Grey Beard or Dr. Torch or some of the other believers on this board. Are you shocked at this revelation?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/05/D8L789JG0.html
The difference is, GreyBeard, Dr. Torch, you, myself(yes, I am a Christian) aren't leading a 30 million member association and championing ourselves as great moral public figures against homosexuality. He's been visiting this prostitute for quite some time, all the while putting a fake mask in front of millions. If this was a sports star, the backlash would be far greater than this. Just because he's a Christian doesn't mean he gets a pass for this from the rest of us.
eaglewing505 Wrote:Endzone2 Wrote:Newsflash! In case some of you all didn't know it, Christians struggle with sin issues too. Just ask Grey Beard or Dr. Torch or some of the other believers on this board. Are you shocked at this revelation?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/05/D8L789JG0.html
The difference is, GreyBeard, Dr. Torch, you, myself(yes, I am a Christian) aren't leading a 30 million member association and championing ourselves as great moral public figures against homosexuality. He's been visiting this prostitute for quite some time, all the while putting a fake mask in front of millions. If this was a sports star, the backlash would be far greater than this. Just because he's a Christian doesn't mean he gets a pass for this from the rest of us.
Yes, I think he should have at least gotten out of the pulpit to deal with it because sexual addiction is EXTREMELY difficult to overcome and it usually isn't a one-shot deal. People may suddenly get free though after having been in it for 2 or 3 decades--people like myself.
eaglewing505 Wrote:Endzone2 Wrote:Newsflash! In case some of you all didn't know it, Christians struggle with sin issues too. Just ask Grey Beard or Dr. Torch or some of the other believers on this board. Are you shocked at this revelation?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/05/D8L789JG0.html
The difference is, GreyBeard, Dr. Torch, you, myself(yes, I am a Christian) aren't leading a 30 million member association and championing ourselves as great moral public figures against homosexuality. He's been visiting this prostitute for quite some time, all the while putting a fake mask in front of millions. If this was a sports star, the backlash would be far greater than this. Just because he's a Christian doesn't mean he gets a pass for this from the rest of us.
Sin is Sin. There is no excuse for what this guy did, and he should not be restored to a place of church leadership, but he appears to be repentent and broken, and that is enough for me.
I will not condemn the man any more, and I would hope that the other church leaders would do the same. What does it say when brothers turn on brothers? Should he be disciplined? Yes. Should he be allowed to pastor any longer? No Should he be thrown out of the church? As long as he is repentent, No.
RebelKev Wrote:OptimisticOwl Wrote:Let gays marry. Why should the joys of losing half your assets in a divorce or sending support money to your ex and his/her lover be reserved for heterosexuals only?
Civil unions, fine, marriage, which I view as a religious institution, I disagree with.
To be honest with you, I think that the government should get out of the "marriage" business to begin with. Don't liberals always ***** about the separation of Church and State? WTF?
I couldn't agree with you more.
The question is do other states recognize civil unions?
Found this site the other day. Seems this has been around for a while:
http://www.in-sheeps-clothing.org/
I can see that this guy come across as very pious and condemning, but I was in an abusive church last year. Only for a short while, but it was painful, particularly to think what it did to my children. Anyway, when I addressed my concerns, I probably came across the same way, in an effort to be formal, specific and precise.
The "elders" of the church I went to told me to "bug off". I can't help but wonder if that pastor isn't doing his best to become the next Ted Haggard.
man JTiger,
That is one scary picture. How about the Tweety clock in the background. ueeckkkk
Machiavelli Wrote:man JTiger,
That is one scary picture. How about the Tweety clock in the background. ueeckkkk
I thought that was the funny part. I'll keep it a while and find another e-thug pick like my last one.
![[Image: _38691859_swaggart238.jpg]](http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38691000/jpg/_38691859_swaggart238.jpg)