...which includes everybody on this board, it seems.
Whenever the terrorists speak, they always conclude "with the permission and help of Allah" or some similar statement. It implies that none of what they do could be done without Allah's help.
So how do they rationalize their failures? The recent failed plot to hit the airplanes from England, the failures of the shoe bomber, the deaths of their leaders, the fact that they haven't been able to put a major hit on America in America in five years? How do they avoid saying, maybe Allah doesn't want these things done, else he would allow it?
Just wondering.
OptimisticOwl Wrote:...which includes everybody on this board, it seems.
Whenever the terrorists speak, they always conclude "with the permission and help of Allah" or some similar statement. It implies that none of what they do could be done without Allah's help.
So how do they rationalize their failures? The recent failed plot to hit the airplanes from England, the failures of the shoe bomber, the deaths of their leaders, the fact that they haven't been able to put a major hit on America in America in five years? How do they avoid saying, maybe Allah doesn't want these things done, else he would allow it?
Just wondering.
Who knows.
What is ironic about the whole Islamic militant thing, is that many of the masterminds are not religious zealots. Instead, they are just evil geniuses (in some cases) with a thirst for blood. The more carnage, the better they feel about themselves.
OptimisticOwl Wrote:...which includes everybody on this board, it seems.
Whenever the terrorists speak, they always conclude "with the permission and help of Allah" or some similar statement. It implies that none of what they do could be done without Allah's help.
So how do they rationalize their failures?
The same wy Christians do. Blame their failures and shortcomings on the devil.
uhmump95 Wrote:OptimisticOwl Wrote:...which includes everybody on this board, it seems.
Whenever the terrorists speak, they always conclude "with the permission and help of Allah" or some similar statement. It implies that none of what they do could be done without Allah's help.
So how do they rationalize their failures?
The same wy Christians do. Blame their failures and shortcomings on the devil.
I thought maybe you would go a different direction on that one.... ;-)
uhmump95 Wrote:OptimisticOwl Wrote:...which includes everybody on this board, it seems.
Whenever the terrorists speak, they always conclude "with the permission and help of Allah" or some similar statement. It implies that none of what they do could be done without Allah's help.
So how do they rationalize their failures?
The same wy Christians do. Blame their failures and shortcomings on the devil.
I really hate it when people do that. I had someone blame their carwrech on the devil. It was because she was too lazy to get her brakes fixed and they went out.
OptimisticOwl Wrote:...which includes everybody on this board, it seems.
Whenever the terrorists speak, they always conclude "with the permission and help of Allah" or some similar statement. It implies that none of what they do could be done without Allah's help.
So how do they rationalize their failures? The recent failed plot to hit the airplanes from England, the failures of the shoe bomber, the deaths of their leaders, the fact that they haven't been able to put a major hit on America in America in five years? How do they avoid saying, maybe Allah doesn't want these things done, else he would allow it?
Just wondering.
I just had a lecture from a Lt. Col. in Iraq (one of our deputy commandants) and he said they have a statement over there that means something like, "So be it". They use it for failures and when things don't get done.
At some point you would think that some of them would regard a record of mostly failure as a clear sign from Allah that this has not gotten his approval.
"So be it" signals a resignation to Allah's will, but if they attribute success to Allah's help, they must attribute failure also to Allah's will.
I don't know if Islam has a Devil/Satan, but if so, I doubt it/he is more powerful than Allah.
Maybe they do like the Christians and just say that His ways are myterious and beyond the understanding of mere humans.
However they rationalize it, I would like to know.
I remember reading somewhere that a large part of the arabic language is dropping Allah's name in everywhere, as in, "I'm going to the store to get some bread, God willing."
I'd have to find that article, but I think they translate it into english and that's why they are always using references to God.
Slate has the article. Here's the relevant portion.
[quote]Arabic is peppered with a lot of God
The Koran and Hadiths are loaded with examples of killing infidels in the name of Allah so for the wacko extremist they are just following orders.
Logic does not formulate much of their thinking. If it did they would have to wonder why Muhammad a man who could split the moon with one motion of his finger and could fly to heaven on a half horse half women, could not merely wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the Earth.
Where was Allah and Muhammad when Israel was putting a world class ass whoopin on the Muslim world in the 60's,70's 80's etc..??
I chalk it up to the fact that religious visions from epileptic seizures of a 40yr old failure named Muhammad created a cult. He then used those visions and talks with Allah to justify all the killing, raping, stealing and sexually deviant behavior for his own benefit.
The Koran itself is an obvious pathetic copy of the Torah and other local Pagan laws that Muhammad experienced growing up. The crap he added himself is the worse parts of the Koran.
OptimisticOwl Wrote:At some point you would think that some of them would regard a record of mostly failure as a clear sign from Allah that this has not gotten his approval.
It may seem like failures to us because in general we fail to look in the short term. I am pretty sure someone could take a long term view and say in the long run the Muslims are winning....
ShoreBuc Wrote:The Koran and Hadiths are loaded with examples of killing infidels in the name of Allah so for the wacko extremist they are just following orders.
Logic does not formulate much of their thinking. If it did they would have to wonder why Muhammad a man who could split the moon with one motion of his finger and could fly to heaven on a half horse half women, could not merely wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the Earth.
Where was Allah and Muhammad when Israel was putting a world class ass whoopin on the Muslim world in the 60's,70's 80's etc..??
I chalk it up to the fact that religious visions from epileptic seizures of a 40yr old failure named Muhammad created a cult. He then used those visions and talks with Allah to justify all the killing, raping, stealing and sexually deviant behavior for his own benefit.
The Koran itself is an obvious pathetic copy of the Torah and other local Pagan laws that Muhammad experienced growing up. The crap he added himself is the worse parts of the Koran.
Of course there is no raping, killing, stealing and sexually deviant behavior in the Holy Bible
uhmump95 Wrote:ShoreBuc Wrote:The Koran and Hadiths are loaded with examples of killing infidels in the name of Allah so for the wacko extremist they are just following orders.
Logic does not formulate much of their thinking. If it did they would have to wonder why Muhammad a man who could split the moon with one motion of his finger and could fly to heaven on a half horse half women, could not merely wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the Earth.
Where was Allah and Muhammad when Israel was putting a world class ass whoopin on the Muslim world in the 60's,70's 80's etc..??
I chalk it up to the fact that religious visions from epileptic seizures of a 40yr old failure named Muhammad created a cult. He then used those visions and talks with Allah to justify all the killing, raping, stealing and sexually deviant behavior for his own benefit.
The Koran itself is an obvious pathetic copy of the Torah and other local Pagan laws that Muhammad experienced growing up. The crap he added himself is the worse parts of the Koran.
Of course there is no raping, killing, stealing and sexually deviant behavior in the Holy Bible
You claim to be a man of faith, yet you continue to make excuses for others while attacking your own faith. To be honest, I don't understand you at all. I am starting the think the "wolf in sheep's clothing" applies.
ShoreBuc Wrote:I chalk it up to the fact that religious visions from epileptic seizures of a 40yr old failure named Muhammad created a cult. He then used those visions and talks with Allah to justify all the killing, raping, stealing and sexually deviant behavior for his own benefit.
The Koran itself is an obvious pathetic copy of the Torah and other local Pagan laws that Muhammad experienced growing up. The crap he added himself is the worse parts of the Koran.
Wow, tell us how you really feel!
I understand what you're saying. Religion has been one of the best routes historically to gain power, but he was an excellent govenor towards his people. Unfortunately, I think it set a precedence for theocracy in Islam, and I am no fan of religious governments.
GrayBeard Wrote:uhmump95 Wrote:ShoreBuc Wrote:The Koran and Hadiths are loaded with examples of killing infidels in the name of Allah so for the wacko extremist they are just following orders.
Logic does not formulate much of their thinking. If it did they would have to wonder why Muhammad a man who could split the moon with one motion of his finger and could fly to heaven on a half horse half women, could not merely wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the Earth.
Where was Allah and Muhammad when Israel was putting a world class ass whoopin on the Muslim world in the 60's,70's 80's etc..??
I chalk it up to the fact that religious visions from epileptic seizures of a 40yr old failure named Muhammad created a cult. He then used those visions and talks with Allah to justify all the killing, raping, stealing and sexually deviant behavior for his own benefit.
The Koran itself is an obvious pathetic copy of the Torah and other local Pagan laws that Muhammad experienced growing up. The crap he added himself is the worse parts of the Koran.
Of course there is no raping, killing, stealing and sexually deviant behavior in the Holy Bible
You claim to be a man of faith, yet you continue to make excuses for others while attacking your own faith. To be honest, I don't understand you at all. I am starting the think the "wolf in sheep's clothing" applies.
Is the statement I made wrong? Just because you say something that is not popular, it doesn't mean you are attacking anything.
uhmump95 Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:uhmump95 Wrote:ShoreBuc Wrote:The Koran and Hadiths are loaded with examples of killing infidels in the name of Allah so for the wacko extremist they are just following orders.
Logic does not formulate much of their thinking. If it did they would have to wonder why Muhammad a man who could split the moon with one motion of his finger and could fly to heaven on a half horse half women, could not merely wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the Earth.
Where was Allah and Muhammad when Israel was putting a world class ass whoopin on the Muslim world in the 60's,70's 80's etc..??
I chalk it up to the fact that religious visions from epileptic seizures of a 40yr old failure named Muhammad created a cult. He then used those visions and talks with Allah to justify all the killing, raping, stealing and sexually deviant behavior for his own benefit.
The Koran itself is an obvious pathetic copy of the Torah and other local Pagan laws that Muhammad experienced growing up. The crap he added himself is the worse parts of the Koran.
Of course there is no raping, killing, stealing and sexually deviant behavior in the Holy Bible
You claim to be a man of faith, yet you continue to make excuses for others while attacking your own faith. To be honest, I don't understand you at all. I am starting the think the "wolf in sheep's clothing" applies.
Is the statement I made wrong? Just because you say something that is not popular, it doesn't mean you are attacking anything.
Your represention is incorrect.
The Bible does not tell us to go out and kill the non-Christians; however, there Koran does tell the Muslims to kill the infidel. I just figured that a man of faith would want to make sure that the Living Word of God was not misrepresented.
GrayBeard Wrote:The Bible does not tell us to go out and kill the non-Christians
This is old testement, so christians aren't around yet.
Exodus 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
"They" being Gentiles. Didn't take that long to find. Religions are really very similar. Instead of getting in pissing contests it would do the entire world a favor to recognize this.
Obviously those verses are not in Graybeard's bible. ;-)
The Old Testament is a part of our Holy bible, but I will agree with Graybeard that as a Christian, the New Testament has more relevance.
My childhood church taught that the New Testament surplanted the Old in any way that they were in conflict.
But the question was how the Muslims could delude themselves into thinking God/Allah uis on their side and looks with approval on their actions. The best explanation I have heard so far is that they don't think rationally.
uhmump95 Wrote:Obviously those verses are not in Graybeard's bible. ;-)
The Old Testament is a part of our Holy bible, but I will agree with Graybeard that as a Christian, the New Testament has more relevance.
Like I said, nowhere does it tell Christians to go out and kill non-believers. In an attempt to keep the Jews focused, God used what we would consider a little more ruthless tactic, but with the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, we all have the chance to join God's family for eternity.
As far as Islam, yes, I would go with "they don't think rationally".
Well an obvious difference is the Old Testament/Torah basically dealt with pagan gods as their competition. When Muhammad was coming up with Koran he had to compete with Pagan God's, Jews and Christianity to promote his new religion. Therefore he threw in threats to all of them in the Koran and justification for killing the followers of both the monotheistic religions of Abraham and the existing Pagan followers, which during Muhammad's time still made up the majority of the population.
Quran-9:29, Fight those who believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth (Islam), even if they are of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Quran-3:85,
[quote="Bourgeois_Rage"]
Slate has the article. Here's the relevant portion.
[quote]Arabic is peppered with a lot of God
[quote="ShoreBuc"]
9:123:
[quote="OptimisticOwl"][quote="ShoreBuc"]
9:123:
deleted because it's off topic.
GrayBeard Wrote:uhmump95 Wrote:Obviously those verses are not in Graybeard's bible. ;-)
The Old Testament is a part of our Holy bible, but I will agree with Graybeard that as a Christian, the New Testament has more relevance.
Like I said, nowhere does it tell Christians to go out and kill non-believers. In an attempt to keep the Jews focused, God used what we would consider a little more ruthless tactic, but with the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, we all have the chance to join God's family for eternity.
As far as Islam, yes, I would go with "they don't think rationally".
Graybeard, I have a sort of off topic question for you.
Do you believe that Jews still have access to heaven by following nothing but the Old Law, or must they accept Jesus?
eaglewing505 Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:uhmump95 Wrote:Obviously those verses are not in Graybeard's bible. ;-)
The Old Testament is a part of our Holy bible, but I will agree with Graybeard that as a Christian, the New Testament has more relevance.
Like I said, nowhere does it tell Christians to go out and kill non-believers. In an attempt to keep the Jews focused, God used what we would consider a little more ruthless tactic, but with the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, we all have the chance to join God's family for eternity.
As far as Islam, yes, I would go with "they don't think rationally".
Graybeard, I have a sort of off topic question for you.
Do you believe that Jews still have access to heaven by following nothing but the Old Law, or must they accept Jesus?
John 14:6 tells me that Jesus is the only way. We are all, Jews included, condemned by the law, and are in need of salvation.
GrayBeard Wrote:eaglewing505 Wrote:GrayBeard Wrote:uhmump95 Wrote:Obviously those verses are not in Graybeard's bible. ;-)
The Old Testament is a part of our Holy bible, but I will agree with Graybeard that as a Christian, the New Testament has more relevance.
Like I said, nowhere does it tell Christians to go out and kill non-believers. In an attempt to keep the Jews focused, God used what we would consider a little more ruthless tactic, but with the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, we all have the chance to join God's family for eternity.
As far as Islam, yes, I would go with "they don't think rationally".
Graybeard, I have a sort of off topic question for you.
Do you believe that Jews still have access to heaven by following nothing but the Old Law, or must they accept Jesus?
John 14:6 tells me that Jesus is the only way. We are all, Jews included, condemned by the law, and are in need of salvation.
Ok. I agree with you, or rather, John: 14:6.