NCAAbbs

Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Flyod
La Duca
Nady
Hernadez


Martinez
Glavine
Benson
Trachel
Seo

Wagner

Sorry, but until you topple the Braves in the NL East, you have not earned the right to be called favorites in your own division much less the entire National League.

That said the Mets have loaded up and put together a good looking team and I commend them for it.

My top 5 teams in the NL next year...

1. Braves - Dominant rotation and a slew of youngsters who will only get better

2. Mets - Gotta give Minaya credit for going for the big prize

3. Astros - No Clemens, but pretty much everyone else is back

4. Cardinals - Subtracted so far in the offseason, but it's hard to bet against Jocketty-LaRussa-Duncan trio

5. Giants - Team to beat in the West with a healthy Bonds and Matt Morris joining the rotation

Right, the Mets sign a million big names every year, and they always suck. The Braves meanwhile, keep losing everyone and still win every year.

GDawgs88 Wrote:Sorry, but until you topple the Braves in the NL East, you have not earned the right to be called favorites in your own division much less the entire National League.

That said the Mets have loaded up and put together a good looking team and I commend them for it.

My top 5 teams in the NL next year...

1. Braves - Dominant rotation and a slew of youngsters who will only get better

2. Mets - Gotta give Minaya credit for going for the big prize

3. Astros - No Clemens, but pretty much everyone else is back

4. Cardinals - Subtracted so far in the offseason, but it's hard to bet against Jocketty-LaRussa-Duncan trio

5. Giants - Team to beat in the West with a healthy Bonds and Matt Morris joining the rotation

riiiight. the braves are done. no bullpen, and no savior (leo mazzone). without leo, those little miracles, like jorge sosa, won't happen. plus, they lost their leadoff hitter. they will have a good team, but without Leo, i can't see them being he best of the NL. if in fact they do turn out to be the best team in the NL, then the NL is a terrible league.

And the giants fifth? we suck. our rotation could potentially be ok. but schmidt sucks, and morris had an ERA over 4.00. Morris is good but not good enough. Lowry and cain are sick, but beyond that, the whole team is weak. What makes you think Bonds will be healthy? the corner infielders are pathetic. feliz, niekro, alfonzo and sweeney. what a joke.

the cardinals suck too. there hitting really depends on how rolen and edmonds hold up. edmonds' body is falling apart from diving and running into walls. their pitching is weak too. the whole NL is inceredibly weak. That first guy gave us the mets lineup and starting rotation. maybe he should take a look at that pathetic excuse for a rotation. after pedro (who is never a guarantee) they have an extremely old tom glavine, and a few mediocre starters. losing roberto hernandez is huge. who's gonna get the ball to wagner. nobody in that rotation is capable of going deep into the game.

everybody sucking is not parity. i want to remind everyone that USC is going for their 3rd championship in a row. and, i'm baaaaack.

"no clemens, but everyone else is back."? that's like saying no barry bonds, but everyone else is back. the astros are f***ed.

watch out for the Brew crew. too bad they couldn't get washburn. they could've really used him. i guess it all depends on weeks, fielder, and hardy.

Quote:riiiight. the braves are done. no bullpen, and no savior (leo mazzone). without leo, those little miracles, like jorge sosa, won't happen. plus, they lost their leadoff hitter. they will have a good team, but without Leo, i can't see them being he best of the NL. if in fact they do turn out to be the best team in the NL, then the NL is a terrible league.

Actually, we still have a savior, and his name is Bobby Cox. You know, the guy who's gotten his team to the playoffs every year since '91? He's got a pretty good track record. I like our chances with him.

And tell me, swooshy, how did we do in '03 and '05 when we had mediocre pitching? How was Leo our savior those years?

Face it, you've been writing off the Braves for as long as I've seen you post, and I'll be the first to remind you that you're always wrong.

Anyway, I'll take my chances with this team...

Lineup

Marcus Giles
Edgar Renteria
Chipper Jones
Andruw Jones
Adam LaRoche
Jeff Francoeur
Ryan Langerhans/Kelly Johnson
Brian McCann

Rotation

John Smoltz
Tim Hudson
Jorge Sosa
John Thomson
Horacio Ramirez/Kyle Davies/Chuck James

Bullpen

Blaine Boyer
Joey Devine
Chris Reitsma
Macay McBride
John Foster
Oscar Villereal
Lance Cormier

Bobby Cox/Terry Pendleton/Roger McDowell/John Schuerholz

That's a very good looking team if you ask me.

BTW, welcome back, swoosh.

flyingswoosh Wrote:"no clemens, but everyone else is back."? that's like saying no barry bonds, but everyone else is back. the astros are f***ed.

Clemens was 13-8 last year. Granted he pitched a lot better than his record but my point is that they still won a ton of games when he wasn't on the mound. They'll be fine without him.

swoosh, why don't you give us your top 5 for the NL next year, since every team I mentioned apparantly sucks.

GDawgs88 Wrote:

Quote:riiiight. the braves are done. no bullpen, and no savior (leo mazzone). without leo, those little miracles, like jorge sosa, won't happen. plus, they lost their leadoff hitter. they will have a good team, but without Leo, i can't see them being he best of the NL. if in fact they do turn out to be the best team in the NL, then the NL is a terrible league.

Actually, we still have a savior, and his name is Bobby Cox. You know, the guy who's gotten his team to the playoffs every year since '91? He's got a pretty good track record. I like our chances with him.

And tell me, swooshy, how did we do in '03 and '05 when we had mediocre pitching? How was Leo our savior those years?

Face it, you've been writing off the Braves for as long as I've seen you post, and I'll be the first to remind you that you're always wrong.

Anyway, I'll take my chances with this team...

Lineup

Marcus Giles
Edgar Renteria
Chipper Jones
Andruw Jones
Adam LaRoche
Jeff Francoeur
Ryan Langerhans/Kelly Johnson
Brian McCann

Rotation

John Smoltz
Tim Hudson
Jorge Sosa
John Thomson
Horacio Ramirez/Kyle Davies/Chuck James

Bullpen

Blaine Boyer
Joey Devine
Chris Reitsma
Macay McBride
John Foster
Oscar Villereal
Lance Cormier

Bobby Cox/Terry Pendleton/Roger McDowell/John Schuerholz

That's a very good looking team if you ask me.

BTW, welcome back, swoosh.

i'm not trying to be inflammatory towards the Braves. they will probably win the division, but c'mon, bobby cox is not the guy who has made the pitching great, it's been leo. your pitching was mediocre last year? what about sosa pitching out of his mind? did you forget that? john thomson is definitely not as good as when he's pitched under leo. under denial are we? roger mcdowell? i guess the word 'unproven' means nothing anymore. terry pendleton? ok. i guess we've beaten this argument to a pulp. LOL.

Swoosh

The Orioles signed Mazzone to be their pitching coach, by your logic that means we will have a dominant pitching staff and make the playoffs. :rolleyes:

Im guessing you were probably about 5 years old the last time the Braves didnt win the division. People have been saying they will be down every year for atleast the past 3. Until they actually are down, I for one am not going to believe it.

Quote:i'm not trying to be inflammatory towards the Braves. they will probably win the division, but c'mon, bobby cox is not the guy who has made the pitching great, it's been leo. your pitching was mediocre last year? what about sosa pitching out of his mind? did you forget that? john thomson is definitely not as good as when he's pitched under leo. under denial are we? roger mcdowell? i guess the word 'unproven' means nothing anymore. terry pendleton? ok. i guess we've beaten this argument to a pulp. LOL.

Our pitching WAS mediocre last year. Okay, so Sosa pitched great. Fine. What about Dank Lob? What about Adam Bombero? What about Chris Reeksma? What about Joey Devine (as in divine for opposing hitters)? I don't recall those guys doing too well.

I'm not really sold on Thomson, either. I'm kind of thinking '04 was a bit of a fluke, but that he's at least a solid No. 4.

As for McDowell, as quickly as Cox and JS signed him and as much as they've raved about him, I get the feeling he knows what he's doing.

I really don't know why I mentioned Pendleton...I've never liked our approach at the plate since he's been here. I was kind of hoping he was going to take the manager's job at Tampa or Los Angeles.

i'd love to name my top 5, but i'm having trouble. they're all so terrible. i know you guys don't miss the days when the braves ruled the NL, but i do. i'm sick of the mediocrity. i just can't make predictions yet, because there are too many things that we need to know as fact before we do make our picks. I understand people being great or terrible are things that we can't take into account, but health is one thing that forces me to wait till january or february. there are so many injuries. bonds and schmidt being healthy, could tip the balance of power to the giants. rolen being healthy could make the cards lineup potent again. prior and maybe wood, being healthy could make the cubs great. in terms of other factors, we have, is weaver coming back to the dodgers? is soriano going to play for the Nats? these are questions i need to know before i pick the crap from the dregs.

[/quote]
Our pitching WAS mediocre last year. Okay, so Sosa pitched great. Fine. What about Dank Lob? What about Adam Bombero? What about Chris Reeksma? What about Joey Devine (as in divine for opposing hitters)? I don't recall those guys doing too well.

I'm not really sold on Thomson, either. I'm kind of thinking '04 was a bit of a fluke, but that he's at least a solid No. 4.

As for McDowell, as quickly as Cox and JS signed him and as much as they've raved about him, I get the feeling he knows what he's doing.

I really don't know why I mentioned Pendleton...I've never liked our approach at the plate since he's been here. I was kind of hoping he was going to take the manager's job at Tampa or Los Angeles.[/quote]

i always thought it was a fact that the braves pitching was what it was because of Leo.

flyingswoosh Wrote:i always thought it was a fact that the braves pitching was what it was because of Leo.

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Leo, because I'm not. Leo was a legend. You can't argue with his results. But at the same time, there have been some years when our pitching hasn't been that good, whether it was Leo's fault or not. So what I'm saying is, we've proven we can win big without Leo working his magic, and I don't see why that can't continue. We've still got Cox and Schuerholz, who have been even bigger parts of the Braves' success since '91 as Leo.

flyingswoosh Wrote:i know you guys don't miss the days when the braves ruled the NL, but i do.

Actually, I miss it a lot. ;-)

KEEP IN MIND WHO THE METS TOOK AWAY FORM THE DIVISON

WAGNER
DELGADO
LA DUCA

TailgateTiger Wrote:KEEP IN MIND WHO THE METS TOOK AWAY FORM THE DIVISON

WAGNER
DELGADO
LA DUCA

You're right, but you took no one away from the Braves, and that is the team you're trying to topple.

GDawgs88 Wrote:

TailgateTiger Wrote:KEEP IN MIND WHO THE METS TOOK AWAY FORM THE DIVISON

WAGNER
DELGADO
LA DUCA

You're right, but you took no one away from the Braves, and that is the team you're trying to topple.

true. the mets aren't trying to topple the marlins or phillies, because as we all know, that won't be so tough. the braves lost 1 good player right? unfortunately furcal was a pretty important piece, but the braves are very much like the football Panthers, they are amazing at replacing players who are lost, whether it be free agency or injury. that is really the thing the braves do the best. They used to piss me off, now they just amuse me.

GDawgs88 Wrote:

TailgateTiger Wrote:KEEP IN MIND WHO THE METS TOOK AWAY FORM THE DIVISON

WAGNER
DELGADO
LA DUCA

You're right, but you took no one away from the Braves, and that is the team you're trying to topple.

I forgot about Julio. I think that was actually a smart move by the Mets, if his late season slump wasn't an indicator of age finally catching up to him.

GDawgs88 Wrote:I forgot about Julio. I think that was actually a smart move by the Mets, if his late season slump wasn't an indicator of age finally catching up to him.

I believe the only thing that hurts them is dominate starting pitching, but i believe that why we traded our decent starters for bullpen. I dont think paying 10 million for a decent starter is worht it (BENSON BURNETT MILWOOD)

I believe the mets would have got ZITO is they could of signed an extention

yea, but if you have the money to sign those types of starters, then it isn't a waste of money. the mets virtually have an unlimited payroll, so spending that kind of money on millwood would have been worth it no matter what numbers he put up.

that's what i've been trying to say for awhile now. some of these moves can't be judged by money, because the teams that did them have unlimited monies. the yankees signing farnsworth was a good move. he'll probably suck, but even if he does, the yanks don't really lose any money.

Glavine - OLD
Martinez - OLD
Trachsel - OLD

You better get 3 new starters. These guys won't last the season..and if they do, they'll be terrible. Martinez might have an o.k. year.

not that their age isn't a concern, but arguably the braves best pitcher coming into the season is almost 39.

I do like that we have some good young options to turn to if a couple of guys go down. If needed, we can give the ball to Kyle Davies (who's proven he can do it at the major league level), Chuck James (who is major league ready by all reports) and/or Anthony Lerew.

The Mets don't have that kind of quality to turn to when a couple of their starters inevitably go on the DL.

GDawgs88 Wrote:I do like that we have some good young options to turn to if a couple of guys go down. If needed, we can give the ball to Kyle Davies (who's proven he can do it at the major league level), Chuck James (who is major league ready by all reports) and/or Anthony Lerew.

The Mets don't have that kind of quality to turn to when a couple of their starters inevitably go on the DL.

i somewhat agree, i was just pointing that out. what i don't agree with is you having trust in james and lerew. i'm not saying they won't be good one day, but you can't feel sure that a rookie will help carry the team if smoltz or hudson should go down. I mean, the chances they will pitch really well, right away, is slim. Look at liriano, verlander and davies. liriano was hit pretty well, verlander had the same results and both of those guys are supposed to be a lot better than james or lerew. and i mentioned davies because, he was the classic case of a rookie. he started out well and then started to get beat like he stole something because the league adjusted to him. baseball is a game of adjustments.

I feel good about Davies. I have no worries if he has to step into the rotation. He's a future ace. James and Lerew are each good enough to at least hold down a spot for a few starts.

GDawgs88 Wrote:I feel good about Davies. I have no worries if he has to step into the rotation. He's a future ace. James and Lerew are each good enough to at least hold down a spot for a few starts.

well, davies might be ready now, but i wasn't referring to him when i was talking about this season. he could've re-adjusted by now. and yes, the other two might be able to hold it down for a few starts, but counting on rookie pitchers is usually suicide.

We're not counting on any of them, but we've got them if we need them, which is nice to know.

You know...Davies brother will be up in a few years... ;-)

I think we should get rid of Thompson, get cash for it(because we need it) and put Davies in the rotation.