im going with the marlins becuse they have really a really good balance of hitting and pitching, also lowell will be back in the playoffs, theyre definetely playing the best right now, even if they dont win the world series or even make the playoffs
the Marlins do have a really potent offensive team. While their pitching is very good, it's also inconsistent and inexperienced. They are very young and have had no playoff experience. Penny and Beckett have been pretty consistent lately, but redman seems to have hit the wall, a little bit and Dontrelle isn't half as good as he was earlier in the season. While they have a good back end of the bullpen, they have no 7th inning relief at all.
A big bright stop is there fielding, which is very good all around, especially up the middle.
The Marlins are good but they're still 10 and a half games behind the Braves. Obviously, I think the Braves are the best team.
GDawgs88 Wrote:Obviously, I think the Braves are the best team.
I'm with GDawgs. The Braves are my choice, as long as Smoltzie is ready to go come playoff time.
JoltinJacket Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:Obviously, I think the Braves are the best team.
I'm with GDawgs. The Braves are my choice, as long as Smoltzie is ready to go come playoff time.
i agree that smoltz is a huge asset for the braves, but he wasn't really a factor at all against the giants last year.
Its either the Giants or the Braves. The best team isnt necessarily who has the best hitting or pitching. The Giants have neither the best pitching nor the best hitting and they have won a ton of games. They fell just short of winning the World Series last year and im certainly not going to count them out this year.
wow you guys have really mamaged to convince me that the braves are going to win the world series, looking back at the last couple years playoffs and seeing what happened, I cant believe i didnt choose the braves myself
tysramm1 Wrote:wow you guys have really mamaged to convince me that the braves are going to win the world series, looking back at the last couple years playoffs and seeing what happened, I cant believe i didnt choose the braves myself
what are you talking about? the Braves haven't done anything in the last few playoffs. Not to say they aren't good, but the playoffs during the last few years haven't showed me anything good about the Braves.
The Braves have amazing hitting, mediocre/crappy pitching, bad bullpen (except Smoltz). A big problem nobody talks about is there fielding, which is very shaky. They have a couple guys who are very good/amazing, but besides that, everyone is mediocre.
Phillies- mediocre hitting, great fielding and very good pitching, with a disfunctional bullpen.
Braves- (see above)
Marlins- Very good hitting, great fielding, good (inconsistent) picthing, and an OK bullpen.
Astros- Good hitting, good/very good fielding, mediocre pitching and a bullpen with two great guys, and nothing else.
Cubs- mediocre/crappy hitting, amazing pitching, terrible bullpen, terrible fielding.
Cardinals- Amazing hitting, no pitching, no bullpen and very good/great fielding.
Giants- Mediocre/good (Bonds is so dominant) hitting, very good/great pitching, great bullpen, great fielding.
I know this has nothing to do with who is the best team RIGHT NOW, but i thought i'd give my general analysis and see what everyone thinks.
I agree the Braves bullpen blows, but let's look at our rotation:
1. Russ Ortiz: 19-6 record, decent ERA.
2. Mike Hampton: 13-7 record, 10-2 in his last 14 starts.
3. Greg Maddux: 14-11 record, 8-3 since 6-8 start.
4. Horacio Ramirez: 10-4 record, only 2 losses since mid-April.
5. Shane Reynolds: 11-9 record, horrific ERA though.
I wouldn't call that a "crappy" rotation, and with our bats, I'll take my chances with those first three.
QUOTE]
wow you guys have really mamaged to convince me that the braves are going to win the world series, looking back at the last couple years playoffs and seeing what happened, I cant believe i didnt choose the braves myself
anyone here ever heard of sarcasm?
flyingswoosh Wrote:the Braves haven't done anything in the last few playoffs.
I think that's an unfair statement. In 2000 we lost to a very good St. Louis team. In 2001 we swept the #1 team in the NL, Houston, then lost to the World Champs, Arizona. And last year we lost to maybe the best team in baseball, San Francisco. It's not like we choked.
GDawgs88 Wrote:I agree the Braves bullpen blows, but let's look at our rotation:
1. Russ Ortiz: 19-6 record, decent ERA.
2. Mike Hampton: 13-7 record, 10-2 in his last 14 starts.
3. Greg Maddux: 14-11 record, 8-3 since 6-8 start.
4. Horacio Ramirez: 10-4 record, only 2 losses since mid-April.
5. Shane Reynolds: 11-9 record, horrific ERA though.
I wouldn't call that a "crappy" rotation, and with our bats, I'll take my chances with those first three.
you're right, they aren't crappy. they are mediocre. Also, if you're going to state how well Hampton has been lately, you have to state how bad ortiz has been lately. The problem with that rotation is nobody really scares the other team. Prior, Schmidt, Schilling, Brown, they all scare the other team. Nobody is an ace on the braves staff.
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:the Braves haven't done anything in the last few playoffs.
I think that's an unfair statement. In 2000 we lost to a very good St. Louis team. In 2001 we swept the #1 team in the NL, Houston, then lost to the World Champs, Arizona. And last year we lost to maybe the best team in baseball, San Francisco. It's not like we choked.
i didn't mean to make it sound as if they choked. I just wanted to show that they haven't been like the Braves of the 90's, the past few years. Also, you said the Braves lost to a very good St.Louis team. If you want to be a good team, you have to beat the other good teams.
flyingswoosh Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:I agree the Braves bullpen blows, but let's look at our rotation:
1. Russ Ortiz: 19-6 record, decent ERA.
2. Mike Hampton: 13-7 record, 10-2 in his last 14 starts.
3. Greg Maddux: 14-11 record, 8-3 since 6-8 start.
4. Horacio Ramirez: 10-4 record, only 2 losses since mid-April.
5. Shane Reynolds: 11-9 record, horrific ERA though.
I wouldn't call that a "crappy" rotation, and with our bats, I'll take my chances with those first three.
you're right, they aren't crappy. they are mediocre. Also, if you're going to state how well Hampton has been lately, you have to state how bad ortiz has been lately. The problem with that rotation is nobody really scares the other team. Prior, Schmidt, Schilling, Brown, they all scare the other team. Nobody is an ace on the braves staff.
Factoring in Ortiz's ERA for today, i would definitely call their rotation crappy. Four of the five have ERA's over 4.00, and Shane Reynolds is almost 6.00. Hampton has the best ERA, and it's 3.69.
flyingswoosh Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:I agree the Braves bullpen blows, but let's look at our rotation:
1. Russ Ortiz: 19-6 record, decent ERA.
2. Mike Hampton: 13-7 record, 10-2 in his last 14 starts.
3. Greg Maddux: 14-11 record, 8-3 since 6-8 start.
4. Horacio Ramirez: 10-4 record, only 2 losses since mid-April.
5. Shane Reynolds: 11-9 record, horrific ERA though.
I wouldn't call that a "crappy" rotation, and with our bats, I'll take my chances with those first three.
you're right, they aren't crappy. they are mediocre. Also, if you're going to state how well Hampton has been lately, you have to state how bad ortiz has been lately. The problem with that rotation is nobody really scares the other team. Prior, Schmidt, Schilling, Brown, they all scare the other team. Nobody is an ace on the braves staff.
If Hampton doesn't scare you, I have to question if you've even watched him pitch lately. And Ortiz is a gamer, he'll give us some big starts in October.
flyingswoosh Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:I agree the Braves bullpen blows, but let's look at our rotation:
1. Russ Ortiz: 19-6 record, decent ERA.
2. Mike Hampton: 13-7 record, 10-2 in his last 14 starts.
3. Greg Maddux: 14-11 record, 8-3 since 6-8 start.
4. Horacio Ramirez: 10-4 record, only 2 losses since mid-April.
5. Shane Reynolds: 11-9 record, horrific ERA though.
I wouldn't call that a "crappy" rotation, and with our bats, I'll take my chances with those first three.
you're right, they aren't crappy. they are mediocre. Also, if you're going to state how well Hampton has been lately, you have to state how bad ortiz has been lately. The problem with that rotation is nobody really scares the other team. Prior, Schmidt, Schilling, Brown, they all scare the other team. Nobody is an ace on the braves staff.
Factoring in Ortiz's ERA for today, i would definitely call their rotation crappy. Four of the five have ERA's over 4.00, and Shane Reynolds is almost 6.00. Hampton has the best ERA, and it's 3.69.
Fine, don't take our rotation seriously. I'd much rather have our 5 than your 5.
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:I agree the Braves bullpen blows, but let's look at our rotation:
1. Russ Ortiz: 19-6 record, decent ERA.
2. Mike Hampton: 13-7 record, 10-2 in his last 14 starts.
3. Greg Maddux: 14-11 record, 8-3 since 6-8 start.
4. Horacio Ramirez: 10-4 record, only 2 losses since mid-April.
5. Shane Reynolds: 11-9 record, horrific ERA though.
I wouldn't call that a "crappy" rotation, and with our bats, I'll take my chances with those first three.
you're right, they aren't crappy. they are mediocre. Also, if you're going to state how well Hampton has been lately, you have to state how bad ortiz has been lately. The problem with that rotation is nobody really scares the other team. Prior, Schmidt, Schilling, Brown, they all scare the other team. Nobody is an ace on the braves staff.
Factoring in Ortiz's ERA for today, i would definitely call their rotation crappy. Four of the five have ERA's over 4.00, and Shane Reynolds is almost 6.00. Hampton has the best ERA, and it's 3.69.
Fine, don't take our rotation seriously. I'd much rather have our 5 than your 5.
You're cool, so i don't like to offend you, but are you insane? You would rather have the Braves rotation instead of Schmidt, Ponson, Rueter, Williams, Correja or Hermanson. The Braves don't have one ace, the Giants have 2. hampton has been awesome, but he's not scary or dominant like Schmidt, or Ponson. What shows you Ortiz will have a big postseason, his great pitching as of late?
Thanks for the props swoosh.
And heck yeah I'd rather have the Braves rotation over the Giants.
Let's compare...
Schmidt vs. Ortiz
Slight edge to Schmidt. However, Ortiz was a main reason that the Giants went to the World Series last year. Remember swoosh?
Advatage: Giants
Hampton vs. Ponson
Hampton has been the best pitcher on the Braves staff of late. Plus he has big game experience. Ponson's next postseason start will be his first.
Advantage: Braves
Maddux vs. Rueter
Rueter was horrible in the World Series last year. But Maddux is known to pitch bad in October himself. Slight edge to the Braves.
Advantage: Braves
Ramirez vs. Williams
Both these guys have had strong rookie seasons. I'd give the edge to whoever gets to pitch in their home ballpark.
Even
So yes, I'd rather have the Braves rotation.
GDawgs88 Wrote:Hampton Thanks for the props swoosh.
And heck yeah I'd rather have the Braves rotation over the Giants.
Let's compare...
Schmidt vs. Ortiz
Slight edge to Schmidt. However, Ortiz was a main reason that the Giants went to the World Series last year. Remember swoosh?
Advatage: Giants
Hampton vs. Ponson
Hampton has been the best pitcher on the Braves staff of late. Plus he has big game experience. Ponson's next postseason start will be his first.
Advantage: Braves
Maddux vs. Rueter
Rueter was horrible in the World Series last year. But Maddux is known to pitch bad in October himself. Slight edge to the Braves.
Advantage: Braves
Ramirez vs. Williams
Both these guys have had strong rookie seasons. I'd give the edge to whoever gets to pitch in their home ballpark.
Even
So yes, I'd rather have the Braves rotation.
Schmidt vs. Ortiz
-Schmidt has much better numbers than Ortiz, it's not even close. You're right Ortiz was a big part of the Giants making it to the WS, but he was terrible when we got there (10.13 ERA).
Giants have the edge
Hampton vs. Ponson
-Ponson has had a better season on the whole. hampton has been better lately. hampton does have big game experience, in which he didn't pitch well. While this will be a first for Ponson, lackey won game 7 last year as a rookie.
Advantage: Even
Maddux vs. Rueter
-Rueter was having an awesome season before he got hurt (he pitched great in his last game). Maddux has had a subpar year and was inconsistent. Also, you're wrong, Rueter was awesome in the WS, he was bad against the Braves (that didn't matter). Rueter has been known to be a clutch pitcher, while Maddux hasn't (though he did pitch well against the Giants last year).
Advantage: Giants
Ramirez vs. Williams
-Neither of them have playoff experience, so going by the numbers jerome is better.
Advantage: Giants (home ballpark would matter for these 2)
Talking about the starting FIVE, you have to include reynolds vs. Hermanson or Correia. the Giants win in that one.
You sound like a liberal, that's so slanted. Only kidding...
But how can you take Ponson over Hampton? Ponson is a back of the rotation guy who had one good half. Hampton is pitching like he was in '99 when he got robbed out of the Cy Young.
And I wouldn't say Williams has had a better year than Ramirez. Ramirez has 5 more wins and the same number of losses. I'll give you ERA though.
I didn't put Reynolds in because I was thinking about the postseason and Shane won't be on our rotation then.
I gotta hand it to you swoosh, you really support your team. I respect that.
And Ortiz dominated Game 6 before DB took him out. I must have been wrong about Rueter. Thanks for the correction.
GDawgs88 Wrote:You sound like a liberal, that's so slanted. Only kidding...
But how can you take Ponson over Hampton? Ponson is a back of the rotation guy who had one good half. Hampton is pitching like he was in '99 when he got robbed out of the Cy Young.
And I wouldn't say Williams has had a better year than Ramirez. Ramirez has 5 more wins and the same number of losses. I'll give you ERA though.
I didn't put Reynolds in because I was thinking about the postseason and Shane won't be on our rotation then.
I gotta hand it to you swoosh, you really support your team. I respect that.
I know Ponson has only had one good year, but it's just a gut feeling. Lots of guys have never had postseason experience, or haven't pitched one good year, and were great in the playoffs. Also, i haven't seen Hampton do this in a few years, so all i have to go on is this year, even though he had a bunch of great years 4 or 5 seasons ago.
The thing about Jerome Williams is that he's gotten worse run support than pretty much anyone on the Giants.
About Shane Reynolds, i thought we were discussing the starting five, but it doesn't matter.
GDawgs88 Wrote:And Ortiz dominated Game 6 before DB took him out. I must have been wrong about Rueter. Thanks for the correction.
Ortiz was pitching very well, but i wouldn't call 6 and 1/3 innings with 2 ER a dominating performance. Also, you might not remember, but Ortiz was in and out of trouble all game, how long can luck last?
I'm not denying that ortiz was awesome in the playoffs, but so was Schmidt.
flyingswoosh Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:And Ortiz dominated Game 6 before DB took him out. I must have been wrong about Rueter. Thanks for the correction.
Ortiz was pitching very well, but i wouldn't call 6 and 1/3 innings with 2 ER a dominating performance. Also, you might not remember, but Ortiz was in and out of trouble all game, how long can luck last?
But if Dusty left him in, the Giants would be world champs right now. Don't you think?
flyingswoosh Wrote:I know Ponson has only had one good year, but it's just a gut feeling. Lots of guys have never had postseason experience, or haven't pitched one good year, and were great in the playoffs. Also, i haven't seen Hampton do this in a few years, so all i have to go on is this year, even though he had a bunch of great years 4 or 5 seasons ago.
But don't you think Hampton's problems were from pitching in Coors Field?
GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:And Ortiz dominated Game 6 before DB took him out. I must have been wrong about Rueter. Thanks for the correction.
Ortiz was pitching very well, but i wouldn't call 6 and 1/3 innings with 2 ER a dominating performance. Also, you might not remember, but Ortiz was in and out of trouble all game, how long can luck last?
But if Dusty left him in, the Giants would be world champs right now. Don't you think?
No. My honest opinion at the time, was Dusty made the right move. Unfortunately it didn't work out.
flyingswoosh Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:GDawgs88 Wrote:And Ortiz dominated Game 6 before DB took him out. I must have been wrong about Rueter. Thanks for the correction.
Ortiz was pitching very well, but i wouldn't call 6 and 1/3 innings with 2 ER a dominating performance. Also, you might not remember, but Ortiz was in and out of trouble all game, how long can luck last?
But if Dusty left him in, the Giants would be world champs right now. Don't you think?
No. My honest opinion at the time, was Dusty made the right move. Unfortunately it didn't work out.
I don't know. The way Russ was pitching, I couldn't understand why Dusty pulled him. But that's a conversation for a different time.
yea, i guess so. Some of that WS is a blur to me, but i definitely remember that i thought dusty made the right move.