When is the conference adding a 12th team?
And who will be the 12th team?
My guess is the Big Ten will wait for Notre Dame.
When are the major conferences going to stop sucking up to ND in the BCS and force them to join a conference to play in a BCS bowl. You all treat them like they are a stand alone conference as great as yours. They are like everyone else now padding their shedule to make an easy run for the big BCS money that keeps them independent with their TV contract. If the big conferences would stop kissing their ass they would be forced into a conference like everyone else. I don't care if the join the B-10, Big East, or the Sun Belt just force them into a conference where they have to earn the BCS bowl game and not be able to buy it. Its time for everyone to stop kissing their ass.
A-MMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!
How about Ohio University? It's in the Big Ten footprint.
1) Missouri
2) Rutgers
3) Nebraska
4) Maryland
All are AAU, all are already in BCS autobid conferences, and all gently expand the footprint.
Personally, I like going west because it facilitates cleaner divisions:
West - Missouri/Nebraksa, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
East - Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State
West Lafayette is barely further west than Bloomington; splitting Indiana and Purdue doesn't seem wise.
How about West Virginia?
North: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
South: Indiana, Illinois, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, West Virginia
While it lends itself to a nice divisional alignment, the Big 10 probably wouldn't take West Virginia since WVU is a non-AAU school. It also doesn't do much for the Big 10 since they feel they already have the Pittsburgh market.
' Wrote:While it lends itself to a nice divisional alignment, the Big 10 probably wouldn't take West Virginia since WVU is a non-AAU school. It also doesn't do much for the Big 10 since they feel they already have the Pittsburgh market.
Big Ten would want Ohio State and Michigan together. Adding Missouri would get the St Louis and Kansas City markets.
St. Louis is full of Illinois fans, the Big 10 already has at least half that market. I'd rather add Kentucky for these reasons:
1) One of college hoops top draws, would increase the conference's attendance average which is already #1
2) Think of the hoops rivalries between Indiana, Purdue, Ohio St, Illinois and Kentucky.
3) It would be a blow to the SEC.
Kentucky should consider changing for these reasons
1) KY is a hoops dominated program in a football conference. Hoops is a weak 2nd in terms of popularity in the SEC. KY has nearly 20% of the SEC's total hoops attendance. More rivalries in the Big 10 for KY's hoops program than in the SEC.
2) Big 10 will have it's own TV network this fall, KY's sports would have a better chance of being seen nationally.
3) KY has a men's soccer program which plays in the Missouri Valley Conference since Men's Soccer is not an SEC sport, migrating to the Big 10 would allow KY to put all their sports teams in 1 conference.
No school will leave the SEC, they just paid out $10,170,000 per school. Geography aside, no school would be dumb enough to pass up on that.
South Tampa Knight Wrote:No school will leave the SEC, they just paid out $10,170,000 per school. Geography aside, no school would be dumb enough to pass up on that.
The Big 10 pays out hefty amounts of cash to all programs as well and that money is going to increase significantly with the Big 10 Network. Eventually there will be affiliated cable systems covering much of the country and all of them will be ponying up $ to the conference who will split that with membership. Big 10 leads the nation in hoops attendance, adding KY (which is the most hoopscentric program in the SEC) may not make the Big 10 the best in terms of quality of play but definitely in popularity.
kY's football program doesn't draw poorly but having a number of rivals within a 4 hour drive (OSU,IN, Purdue, IL) could boost their attendance by 5-10K per game.
Being part of a conference with it's own TV network is going to be attractive to programs that are facing belt tightening with cost increasing and revenues not keeping up.
Nebraska to the Big Ten would be good if Notre Dame was not an option. Wonder if Big Ten would you this as a motivation against Notre Dame to get them to join. The Big 12 would most likely have to go after Arkansas to replace Nebraska and then SEC could then add Louisville. The BE then would be forced to replace Louisville.
As long as Notre Dame has the NBC deal and a BCS spot they will stay the way they are. If I'm the Big Ten I'd get Missouri. Send a message, we don't need ND and we're not waiting anymore
Hearing rumors....
So, who would be the Big 10's 1st choice (after ND)?
Rutgers
Mizzou
Syracuse
Kentucky is a better option
1) outdraw the other 3 for football
2) outdraw 2 of the 3 in hoops and are a hoops program in a football conference. Add them to the Big 10 and the Big 10 has an improved lineup for both sports.
3) It would force teh SEC to add a 12th team to replace KY.
4) KY has a mens soccer program in the MVC because the SEC doesn't have mens soccer. Moving to the Big 10 would allow them to place all their teams in 1 conference.
5) Big Ten network would help them recruit more nationally which they need since they are getting killed in state.
6) KY is within3 hours of Columbus, Bloomington, Lafayette and Champaign.
This would create some additional great B10 rivalries
chargeradio Wrote:1) Missouri
2) Rutgers
3) Nebraska
4) Maryland
All are AAU, all are already in BCS autobid conferences, and all gently expand the footprint.
Personally, I like going west because it facilitates cleaner divisions:
West - Missouri/Nebraksa, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
East - Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State
West Lafayette is barely further west than Bloomington; splitting Indiana and Purdue doesn't seem wise.
So what, you threw out Minnesota? Golden Gophers are not going to be happy with you.
onlinepole Wrote:Kentucky is a better option
1) outdraw the other 3 for football
2) outdraw 2 of the 3 in hoops and are a hoops program in a football conference. Add them to the Big 10 and the Big 10 has an improved lineup for both sports.
3) It would force teh SEC to add a 12th team to replace KY.
4) KY has a mens soccer program in the MVC because the SEC doesn't have mens soccer. Moving to the Big 10 would allow them to place all their teams in 1 conference.
5) Big Ten network would help them recruit more nationally which they need since they are getting killed in state.
6) KY is within3 hours of Columbus, Bloomington, Lafayette and Champaign.
This would create some additional great B10 rivalries
I know this is probably not the sexy pick but if you're interested in beefing up the Big Ten's Men's B'Ball Profile, maybe you should take a close look at the University of Memphis (Elite Eight 2006 & 2007, Preseason rank #1 in the country).
Additionally, there is the possibility for a SEC vs Big Ten Matchup in the Liberty Bowl down the road. Just something to think about ...
Academics eliminate Memphis. You have to be among top 75 schools in country to sniff the Big Ten. Big East takes tier 3 and 4 schools, but not the Big Ten.
OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:Academics eliminate Memphis. You have to be among top 75 schools in country to sniff the Big Ten. Big East takes tier 3 and 4 schools, but not the Big Ten.
Okaaaaaaay ... 
. I guess you've gotta handle on all of that ... 
.
Being one of the four University Centers for SUNY, Buffalo has the academics for the Big 10. Of course, it's going to take the Bulls a decade or more to build an athletic reputation to make them attractive to the Big 10, or Big East.
The Big 10's been at 11 members since 1993, when Penn State became a full member. Apparently whatever problems caused by the uneven number of members are not too worrisome to the conference. I don't expect to see expansion for some time, if ever.
[quote=DexterEagle]
Being one of the four University Centers for SUNY, Buffalo has the academics for the Big 10. Of course, it's going to take the Bulls a decade or more to build an athletic reputation to make them attractive to the Big 10, or Big East.
The Big 10's been at 11 members since 1993, when Penn State became a full member. Apparently whatever problems caused by the uneven number of members are not too worrisome to the conference. I don't expect to see expansion for some time, if ever.
Having an uneven number of teams in a conference is a minor concern when you don't have divisions and a conference title game. Buffalo moved up from Division 3 to the MAC in about 10 years and should have stayed in 1AA a few more years as they aren't competitive yet in MAC football. The Big 10 would be a pipe dream for the Bulls. If the Bulls can keep Turner Gill on campus, in 3 years they should be competitive in the conference.
[b]I know this is probably not the sexy pick but if you're interested in beefing up the Big Ten's Men's B'Ball Profile, maybe you should take a close look at the University of Memphis (Elite Eight 2006 & 2007, Preseason rank #1 in the country).
Memphis is one of the top 5 nonBCS athletic programs. The Big 12 would be a better fit for Memphis, being that hoops is your best sport in terms of talent and attendance. Memphis's football attendance average is about half that of the Big 10 and about 3/4 of the Big 12's. If the Big East splits into 2 divisions in 2010, I'm sure the football division would invite you as their 9th team as having to schedule 5 OOC games every year is a pain for the Athletic Directors of the Big East.
http://orange44.blogspot.com/2007_07_01_archive.html
Quote:It is not surprising to see that the Big Ten Conference's announcement that expansion is back on the league's agenda has captured the intrigue of the college football community. Syracuse, according to the Des Moines Register, is an apparent target for membership. Many individuals and media outlets have weighed in on Syracuse's candidacy. The sentiments have ranged from surprise to knee-jerk acceptance.
The most interesting aspect, though, is that Syracuse appears to have anticipated such a candidacy. At best, the institution has put such circumstances in motion.
Pertinently, Jim Delaney -- the Big Ten Conference's current Commissioner -- would not announce such an endeavor had he not already engaged in some sort of investigatory experiment. In order to adequately gauge which direction expansion would take place, conversations must have occurred, both within and without of the conference. To do otherwise would lead to some degree of chaos if proper preparation and due diligence did not occur.
Such an assumption is grounded in Penn State's migration to the Big Ten Conference. While set in secrecy, the expansion did not occur on a whim. Penn State knew it was a target and prepared accordingly.
This is where Syracuse comes in. Ever since the Orange failed to move to the Atlantic Coast Conference, much speculation has taken place as to the viability of the Big East Conference. To assume that Syracuse has not explored options to secure its athletic future is to ignore the fact that the Big East Conference is, at best, a loose affiliation of universities attempting to sustain order through an otherwise tenuously beneficial relationship.
To wit, Jake Crouthamel and the Syracuse administration dragged its feet through the Atlantic Coast Conference membership evaluation process, yet was still prepared to accept an offer if extended. The only reason the migration did not occur was because of the Virginia legislature's strong-arming of Atlantic Coast Conference Commissioner John Swofford.
Moreover, Syracuse's abstention from the lawsuit against the Big East Conference defectors supports the notion that the university maintained the foresight to recognize that if in the future Syracuse would receive another membership offer, it would not erode or tarnish the goodwill it has created with its Big East Conference affiliates.
This prior history strongly indicates that Syracuse is far from opposed to changing its league affiliation. In contrast, it shows that Syracuse has been open to assessing its options should an opportunity arise.
The opportunity, apparently, has arise. The only thing that is up to debate is when the opportunity first arose. Given Syracuse's actions over the last two years, the possibility likely arose long before Jim Delaney gave his interview to the Des Moines Register.
The facts are almost oppressive:
- The Big Ten Conference is looking to target the New York City market. For at least the last two years Syracuse has put out a marketing blitz in The City. From establishing a radio affiliate, to hanging billboard and taxi signs, to an affiliation with SNY, Syracuse's "Orange in the Apple" campaign appears eerily consistent with the Big Ten's desire.
- The Big Ten Conference is built on regional support of its collegiate members. When you have large state institutions, large regional partisans are bound to follow. Syracuse -- one of upstate New York's many private universities -- has attempted to extend its reach through an effort to label the Orange as New York's "team." From stickers on helmets to banners in the Carrier Dome, the Syracuse Department of Athletics is trying to develop a state school feel in a private environment.
- The Big Ten Conference is all about tradition and an old-school Saturday afternoon feel. Syracuse's branding effort over the last few seasons has brought back the throwback look. From uniforms to a new/old "Block S" logo, Syracuse's branding is in-line with that of the Big Ten Conference (even if met with mixed reviews).
Then there is the scheduling. While put in motion well before Dr. Daryl Gross took the reigns, it has shown that Syracuse has and will compete in the Big Ten Conference. In just the last two seasons Syracuse has faced Illinois and Iowa. In the near future, Syracuse will square off against Northwestern, Penn State, and the aforementioned last two clubs.
Finally, there are Syracuse's facilities upgrades. The Carrier Dome has received extensive upgrades and cosmetic facelifts. At the Lampe Athletic Complex, Syracuse has pretty much overhauled the entire site, constructing a new, state-of-the-art weight room, installed new practice fields, and brought the entire complex up to contemporary standards. Such developments are not just to lure recruits; it is to lure potential conference suitors.
The evidence is not overwhelming, but it is at least inducive of the fact that Syracuse may have heard of the opportunity previously and is preparing for a full exploration.
If this is actually the case, then one would assume that Syracuse is a serious candidate if not a primary candidate. That fact puts Syracuse in a position of leverage not seen since the great league debacle of 2003.
“If you are out of trouble, watch for danger”
- Sophocles
Mike Tranghese -- Commissioner of the Big East Conference -- was on top of the world just two weeks ago. Captaining a league that had survived what was then perceived as a fatal attack, Tranghese spoke with steely confidence about the Big East's terrific 2006 gridiron campaign and the expectations and anticipations surrounding the conference's 2007 effort.
And now, Tranghese is once again forced to try and find success in circumstances that are bound to resolve in only misery. The difference between these circumstances and those that transpired in 2003, however, is that the Big East will, in all but one circumstance, not survive.
The story is fairly straightforward: Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delaney wants to expand the Big Ten in order to buoy the conference's television network. The targets? At this point, some combination of Notre Dame, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Nebraska, Missouri, and pretty much every other school not residing in the southeast or on the west coast.
Before assessing Syracuse's particular position in this realignment, the ramifications of the realignment must first be understood. This is necessary as Syracuse -- much like its conference mates -- will not maintain the status quo should the Orange not receive an invitation to the Midwest's premier collegiate athletic conference.
Scenario I: Big Ten Invites Notre Dame
Facts: The Big Ten offers Notre Dame a seat at the league table. Notre Dame, surprisingly, accepts the offer. No other conference realignments occur.
Analysis: Quite simply, this is Mike Tranghese's dream scenario. The Big East stays in tact while Notre Dame -- long a leech on the Big East's being -- is finally jettisoned from the league. In essence, everybody wins; the Big Ten gets its "big fish" and the Big East maintains the status quo of resurgence.
Syracuse Impact: Most importantly, however, Syracuse University is not materially affected. It is still a member of a viable athletic conference with members that maintain above-average to elite athletic programs.
Scenario II: Big East Member Bolts to the Big Ten
Facts: The Big Ten extends a membership offer to either Syracuse, Rutgers, or Pittsburgh (these are the only three Big East institutions that satisfy the conference's academic requirements). One of the aforementioned institutions accepts the offer.
The Big East is left with only seven football playing members. Mike Tranghese, once again, is left to plug the holes on the Big East's sinking ship.
Analysis: There is a reason that direct hits are, more likely than not, fatal.
The Big East survived this scenario in 2003 when John Swofford and the Atlantic Coast Conference snatched Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College from the Big East. At that time, however, a secondary option was available that, while sour, was not unacceptable. That option was Conference USA, a league built to be the Big East of the Midwest but never found its momentum.
This time, contrastingly, an acceptable secondary option does not exist. Navy, Central Florida, East Carolina, and arguably every other institution east of the Mississippi River do not match (either academically or athletically) the institutional models of Pittsburgh, Syracuse, or Rutgers. These are classic eastern universities that cannot be replicated through replacement.
In essence, the Big East would be trading a ten dollar bill for a five. The only consequence is a watered-down version of the original.
Syracuse Impact: If Syracuse is not the institution that receives and accepts the offer, an unmitigated fatal blow. The Big East cannot survive without Pittsburgh or Syracuse. These are the only two institutions that maintain a national reputation on the football field and on the hardwood. Without one, the conference losses almost all of its cache and marketability.
More importantly, however, is that the Big East is bound to take on another member that does not rise to the level of Syracuse's academic and athletic missions. Syracuse is not Harvard (nor should it be), but it clearly is not East Carolina or Central Florida. These are not academic or athletic peers; rather, these institutions are merely friends of necessity.
That is not a recipe for success.
With the Big East hobbling atop a single leg, the upward climb Syracuse would have to make in order to restore credibility is almost impossible. Even in terrific campaigns, Brigham Young has had to plead and whine for national attention. Texas Christian may fall under the same circumstances this season. Should Syracuse remain in a Big East devoid of Pittsburgh or Rutgers, it would be in the same situation as the aforementioned Mountain West Conference members.
The Orange may as well cut its losses (both literally and figuratively) and move to Division I-AA. In that effort, Jim Boeheim can keep his placement in the Big East while football program costs are recategorized from "pointless hemorrhaging" to "respectable under the circumstances."
Scenario III: Non-Big East Member Bolts to the Big Ten
Facts: The Big Ten offers membership to a non-Big East member institution (the leaders at this juncture appear to be Big XII members Nebraska, Missouri, or Iowa State). The institution accepts the offer and becomes the Big Ten's twelfth member.
As a result of the move, the Big XII looks to fill-out its membership. Arkansas, a former member of the Southwest Conference and rumored to be dissatisfied with its membership in the Southeastern Conference, receives a membership offer from the Big XII. Arkansas accepts the invitation in order to renew its rivalries with Texas institutions.
Now short one member, the Southeastern Conference scours every school south of the Mason-Dixon line for a member. Louisville and West Virginia are targeted and one of the institutions receives an offer and accepts. The Big East is now down to seven football playing institutions.
Analysis: See, Scenario II: Big East Member Bolts to the Big Ten.
The Case for Syracuse
Editors Note: Honestly, Syracuse should not be the Big Ten's first option. Brian Cook has labeled Syracuse as a "Plan B" and I do not disagree. Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, and Missouri are clearly better options due to their geographic location. However, what follows is merely the case for the Orange due to the above analyses.
As noted, Syracuse needs to both generate and accept a membership offer from the Big Ten. To do so puts over a century of athletic development in serious jeopardy.
Positives
Despite its recent woes on the gridiron, Syracuse is still the 14th winningest program in college football history. All programs go through periods of downturn; the programs with a rich tradition of success almost always rebound to recapture past glory. Syracuse -- until proven otherwise -- is bound to find its way to success once again. No other school associated with the Big Ten's expansion plans (with the exception of Nebraska) matches Syracuse's record.
Syracuse maintains arguably one of the most recognized college basketball brands in the country. Jim Boeheim's presence on the sideline should not change a century of excellence on the hardwood (through 2004, Syracuse is the sixth winningest program in college basketball history).
Syracuse is an academic peer to Big Ten member institutions. As a member of the Association of American Universities, it maintains a status amongst the nation's premier research institutions.
Syracuse maintains, unsurprisingly, an incredible national media presence. With so many S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications graduates populating mainstream media outlets, the Orange has kept its national television presence despite fielding underachieving football squads the last two seasons. This should undoubtedly contribute to the Big Ten's media exposure.
No institution is going to dominate the New York City market, but if any is going to, it could be Syracuse. The Orange already has an arrangement with New York's ESPN Radio affiliate and SNY (New York's newest all sports television network) religiously broadcasts Syracuse's sports magazine programs, basketball contests, lacrosse games, and regionally-produced football games. Throw in a sizeable alumni base in the greater metropolitan area and you have as strong a presence in New York City area as any other major university.
Syracuse's location is fairly accessible to the Midwest. It may have an east coast feel, but it is not an outpost like Boston College is to the Atlantic Coast Conference.
Syracuse has a fairly long tradition with the Big Ten. In the last decade or so, Syracuse has squared off against almost every institution currently within the conference. Throw in a long standing rivalry with Penn State and Syracuse has maintained an extended athletic relationship with the conference as a whole.
Negatives
As a relatively small and selective private university, Syracuse only has one potential peer in the Big Ten: Northwestern. Given the Wildcats' success in the conference, serious doubt surrounds how Syracuse can compete with large land grant universities.
Syracuse maintains a relatively small athletic program. Hockey is on the horizon, but until the Orange takes to the ice, the university is only fielding 19 varsity sports (with swimming and diving coming off the ledger next year). This is not totally congruent with the Big Ten's eleven members.
Accessible from the Midwest, but a difficult trip nonetheless.
Have you seen the football team lately?
Appy State is looking for a step down in competition. maybe they will join...
[quote=72Tiger]
Appy State is looking for a step down in competition. maybe they will join...
Don't rip on a BCS conference when Memphis is a losing program in the worst conference in D1A football (except maybe the Suckbelt). CUSA has a lower Sagarin rating than 3 FCS conferences (Gateway, Colonial and Southern)
relax. it was a joke. just trying to liven up a dead board. it is baskeball season anyway! (another joke, this time self depracating)