NCAAbbs

I read that attendance mark for the KSU game.

Now, in order to believe the Bucs drew 4700+ fans last night, we have to believe they actually drew more fans for this nothing game than they did for the 1996 NCAA home playoff football game against Villanova.

Just look at the stands! The capacity of the facility is now, what, 6700 people?

And we are to believe they drew 4700? That that facility was filled to 70% of capacity?

This program does not deserve to be cheered for. They are simply that dishonest.

Then go "support" or whatever it is you do somewhere else. The lower bowl holds 3000 people, with the exception of the seats behind the KSU bench (which by conference rules have to be there and available for visiting fans and serve as a buffer between our fans and their bench), the lower section was full. They sent security up to the top last night to make sure people weren't sitting in the banned section, there was 1700 people ATLEAST sitting in the old football grandstands, ATLEAST.
By the way we're 14-7 and leading the conference.

Since you enjoy being lied to, VolLover, I will tell you that you are a respected poster who never lets emotion get in the way of facts.

I asked how many the lower level holds last night, 3000 in the lower section. There was 1700 people in the upper part atleast, bottom line.
I mean if it bothers you that much, why not come to a game and see for yourself?

Because, as I have said repeatedly, I refuse to give David Mullins any of my money after the way he has treated me.

I'm not like you, VolLover. I don't say "Thank you sir, may I have another?"- much like you do every time you make an appearance on this board.

And there was no way in hell that lower bowl had 3000 fans in it last night. Anyone seeing the game on TV with all the empty seats could tell you that.

Im pretty sure thats a legit number. It was pretty crowded last night. The bottom was FULL and there was alot in the top. Biggest crowd since UTC, and the most students all year.

Marcus- quit being such a shill. Anyone could see the empty seats there in the lower bowl part.

The sad thing here is, though, that if it is a legitimate number then there is no future for ETSU football. The fact more people would go to a ETSU-KSU basketball game over a legitimate football playoff does not bode well for the revival of the gridiron.

Guys, I saw the game highlights. IF, and that is a big IF, the lower bowl was full. Then you're telling me that there were 1700 people in the permanent seats. Sorry guys. Christmas comes in 11 months, Santa will see you then.

Pitt and Rocky, I was there, the number is probably right. It was a good crowd.

Question- is this the biggest crowd you've ever been to at a home Bucs game?

No, unlike you, I have been going to the games as a season ticket holder since the late 70's. So I have been there for the 10,000 + games to the less than 1000 games. Based on the last couple of years it was a good crowd.

Were theremore people there than were there for a majority of the games during the 02-03 and 03-04 seasons?

02-03 or 03-04, no. But I said the last couple of years.

Well, here you go. Numbers from etsubucs.com

02-03 13 home games avg attendance 3797
High attendance games: UNCG (ESPN2) 5479
App St (Senior Night) 6045

03-04 12 home games avg attendance 4407
High attendance games: Chatt (Senior Night) 8667
App St 7049
WCU 5075

06-07 10 home games avg attendance 4219
High attendance games: Chatt. 5588
Kennesaw 4729


Take away the Chatt game from 03-04 and the average attendance is higher in 06-07. BigBlue, you're a smart guy and you have to know these numbers do not add up.

Not only that, but I think the Chattanooga attendance figure is higher than what the Michigan State figure would have been in 1998.

And they were both weekday games, if memory serves.

It in no way, shape or form adds up, and you could tell by all the empty seats in the "lower bowl."

Now, two schools of thought here.

One- A fan like Blue figures that since there were more people in the building last night because of the Friday night, the Hall of Fame, etc., that the 4700 adds up.

Two- The fan like VolLover figures that anything negative said about dear old ETSU is a sin, so he will go to whatever length he can to defend them.

All I know is that DeChellis told me personally they were jacking the numbers.

Now, am I to believe the David Mullins regime is more honest than the Todd Stansbury regime?

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!

Or, perhaps in answer to the question I posed in the thread-

VolLover, Blue, Fan1, etc.

No, Pitt, they are right. I know what the pictures on TV and the still shots looked like. However, you must not have seen the pictures at the concession stand and bathroom. LONG lines, LOTS of people! Go Bucs!

Just out of curiosity, would you come if there was a free ticket for you? That way you're not giving Mullins any of your money.

Ya know Marky, kevster, etc... until you come to games and see what is and isn't there, then give it a rest. Those of us that are going and seeing that things are going BACK in the right direction are supporting it. I mean honestly, what will you two cry and bitch about after football is re-instated and we're out of the A-Sun? I mean first it was all the teams suck, then the basketball team sucks, now they're winning and getting more and more support, so you look at pictures and bitch about attendance. Guess what guys? St. Croix is the most beautiful place in the world, in pictures. But I can promise ya it's a complete rathole if you leave your inclusive resort.
You guys are becoming ridiculous about the whole thing. If you want the change, it takes money, simple as that, go to games, donate the money, or shut your mouth, simple as that.

A six-game winning streak against some of the worst teams in college basketball and all the sins of the athletic dept. have been forgiven by VolLover!

If you want to know why you have no credibility, Andy, its because most people don't sell their souls for a few pieces of silver.

Really.

Credibility? Let's see here, Buclover starts talking about football, says an announcement will ba made in December concerning its' return, low and behold, Dr. Stanton has a press conference about it.
Buclover says a few weeks ago this team is starting to improve and are playing better defense? And what do ya know, Eryk Thomas will probably win defensive player of the year in our conference.
I've never said that mistakes weren't made, but at some point, preferably sooner than the three/four years you and some others have been crying like little girls about it, you have to say okay, things are working. Baseball has back to back 30 win seasons, WBB, volleyball have both been improving, the WBB movement started in the Socon and have improved exponentially since Rodney Engligh left, all four CC sports are successful, track and field is doing its' thing again. I mean seriously, the only two sorry programs we have are women's soccer and softball, and I think you'll see the soccer program take a massive leap in improvement next season.
So what's the problem? All the teams are winning, they all have plenty of funding, and the process to get back to playing real football is going.
I mean you, and really everyone on here needs to quit acting like ETSU basketball has this powerhouse winning tradition, because guess what? Other than a few three/four year little spurts, they've not. And what happens is a coach comes in, builds the team up a little bit, gets some NCAA appearances, and bolts for more money, EVERYTIME. That's what ETSU is, like it or not, we're a stepping stone program right now. And maybe, just maybe the idea is to get enough money/facilities thrown at it so people in this area will see more than what used to be the typical half a$$ed commitment that ETSU had to athletics, and build a program that in time will be able to compete on a more national stage. It just takes time and money.
Now in three years if we're not where we should be, then I'm the first to say that yes, a change needs to be made.

88- Here's what I have to believe to believe there were 4700 people there.

A- I have to believe the word of fans who are conditioned by years of attendance jacking. Two thousand show up for a game and ETSU announces 4000. Twenty five hundred or whatever go to this one- and they announce 4700.

Joe Season Ticket holder sees more people in the stands. ERGO! The high attendance figure must be right- because for years I've been conditioned to believe less is more.

It's a convienent excuse to say "You weren't there- you don't know!" but this one wasn't just on radio. There were TONS of empty seats anyone could see on the telecast.

The arguement VolLover tries to make is the lower bowl of 3000 was full and there were 1700 elsewhere.

Clearly, the lower bowl was NOT full and anyone watching the game on TV could see it!

Evidently, it was "Blinders night" at Memorial Center, because that is what you were seeing the crowd as.

B- I have to believe that more fans are interested in a pedestrian, mid-season basketball game that the hometown paper doesn't even put on its free website than a football game with national championship implications.

C- I have to ignore the admission of a previous head coach that attendance has been jacked- and believe in the word of new athletic department figures who have been disingenous, to say the least, with both myself and the public at large.

Your reasoning is flimsy- and I know damn well you didn't count the fans.

Add your name to the list of "Those who they are kidding."

And VolLover also shoots his mouth off and says "I wouldn't be surprised if VMI beats Penn State!"- and then when I call you out on it- you wimp away and make excuses.

Your post reminds me of a circumstance where some old friends of mine who root for Notre Dame saw a guy wearing a Navy jacket at a bar. They started teasing him, and the Middies fan's responce was-

"Oh yeah? Who won in SWIMMING?"

Drop down to the worst conference in America in your primary sport? Kill football- and then reverse your decision in an attempt to save your image in a way that will require mass red tape cutting and far more money than if you had kept the sport in the first place?

All while being dishonest to just about everyone they come in contact with- from media relations to attendance counts?

And you defend it with the equivilent of "Oh, yeah, WHO WON IN SWIMMING!?!?!"

Not only that, but the accomplishments of "swimming" have been modest.

At the end of the day, the people who have destroyed this athletic program are still in charge and the philosophy is the same.

Why contend for a CWS berth, the way the rest of the A-Sun does, when you can plow over the site the baseball field used to be on and build a soccer field?

Supposedly. It isn't looking much like anything is going on on the site right now.

Just keep crying like a little girl about it. I mean if you're talking about the seats behind the Kennesaw bench that were empty, yea, those have to be reserved for visiting fans, period. If you watch any A-Sun game, or any mid major game right now for that matter they all have the same rule about having an area behind the visiting bench FOR VISITING FANS. It also serves as a buffer between the visiting team and the home fans. Call it the Derek Waugh rule if you will. He reminds me of you Marky, cries like a little girl alot, not happy. I guess daddy didn't love him either.
And they tore down the baseball field because the NCAA wouldn't sanction the place. What's the problem with building a new one across the street? I mean I don't take issue with the campus growing, I'm all for it. The more the campus grows, the better downtown looks.
And yea, the philosophy has changed. They're just like everyone else, they understand money, and when the money stops coming in after football gets dropped, then it didn't take long for them to figure out that hey, bring it back, more money comes in, and we're spending a fortune making trips to Florida.
Fact is there was 1700 people sitting in the football stands, ATLEAST. And yes, that building will look empty on television always, unless the place is COMPLETELY filled up. The scaffolds for the sideline cameras are positioned such that those angles are going to show empty seats that can't be sat in, but you keep crying like a little girl about it, meanwhile ETSU will just keep plugging away at building their facilities, getting football going again, all the while the money sport will keep winning. 14-7/8-1 in the conference. 20 plus wins is a definite possibility.

Andy, the reason why you have no credibility is again displayed

A- I ask any objective person- who is crying like a little girl- you or me?

B- You evidentily cannot decipher empty seats from actual people- even when it is presented in front of you

And the only GAIN that would occur from defending these attendance figures they give out would be to defend the same people who have ruined the athletic department.

C- I really would like to see your source that the NCAA didn't sanction old Mooney Field. Not that it was a gem- it wasn't- but it was a much nicer facility than where Pitt plays baseball at.

If Trees Field can be sanctioned and Mooney couldn't- I want to know what the criteria for sanctioning is.

You keep talking about these new facilities as if they are guaranteed and going to happen.

My God, tomorrow the Board of Regents could kill the football dream.

And the scary thing is that the bucfootball board is becoming increasingly cynical- and they used to look at this whole thing through more rose colored glasses than you do.

But, hey, the golf team made the NCAAs for the first time in six years. I guess everything is okay at dear old ETSU!

Fan1, 88, Lover, I have seen the light preached by Lord Pitt. We all were at the game and don't know about the attendance. Pitt and Rocky were not there, but they DO know how many people were there. Guys we have been doing this wrong all along. I guess they pump some kind of drug through the air conditioning system so we don't see the true picture. I think we need to stop going to the games so that we can see what is really going on. Nobody is going to the games, the team is falling apart, Bartow is the worst coach in the NCAA's. We need to bring the true savior Coach Eddie D back so we can work our way towards the goal of being in the ACC and being the number 1 rated team in the Nation! Let's all get behind Pitt and get this done!!!

lmfao lmfao lmfao lmfao.....BigBlue what you are forgetting is he is the official seat counter (said so himself). So he does know what he is is talking about.

I simply want someone to explain the above attendance numbers to me. BigBlue, you said there were not more people there the other night than in 02-03. Apparently there were.

Explain to me why an increase in game to game attendance when there are fewer butts in seats.
IF there has been a change in the way tickets are counted, fine. Just say it instead of arguing about the golf and track team reaching great heights. Hell they should with the $$$ they are getting.

And I simply want people to start questioning authority instead of taking the lies they give us- and then upholding those lies with flimsy reasoning.

ANY DAMN FOOL could see those empty seats. Evidently you can't when you're at the game or something.

4700 doesn't add up. It simply doesn't add up.

This is how Mullins thought things would be from the beginning. Win a few games against anyone and the people will be happy. Basketball wins a few games against teams that probably would not win state titles in some states and people say things are turning the corner. More progress hsa to be made for me to feel that this department is beginning to be all it can be for the university.

However, thank God there were some tireless people in the Football Foundation who worked hard to keep the idea of football's return alive. Doc worked to get the ducks in a row and then they presented things in a first class manner to a president who began to realize that his legacy was going to be tarnished by the decision to drop football. Mullins wants football at ETSU like I want horse crap for dinner. He's saying the right things, albeit through clenched teeth.

Come to a game Pitt. That was a good crowd. 4700 is legit. YOu cant tell on TV, Im sorry but you cant.

Listen, all we can do is win our games against our competition. I dont see you out there Pitt leading the charge to get us in a better league. I dont see you picketing outside the dome.

All we can do is beat who we play, and we are doing that right now.

Rocky- You got it right.

But youth is bliss. And in the case of VolLover- here's a guy who was too young to remember the Bucs under LeForce and Robinson.

So to him this is as good as it gets.

Marcus- you really ought to consider resigning RIGHT NOW after that last post.

I have been the ONLY voice of dissent to the Bucs current situation, both as a print, broadcast, and here as an internet journalist.

"I don't see you leading the charge to get the Bucs in a better conference?"

What were all those columns in Sports Talk? What was being the first journalist to ask any ETSU official about the possibility of leaving the A-Sun ON YOUR OWN DAMN STATION?

How is my attending a game going to do ANYTHING but give me stamp of approval to an athletic department that has consistently backstabbed both myself and the community?

And how are you explaining away the empty seats at Memorial Center Friday night?

You're not. You're resorting to personal attacks that show your lack of knowledge.

Personal attacks? What are you talking about?

Listen, that was a good crowd. Have you been to a game since they put in the new bleachers on the floor? It seats a lot more people than it used to, and it was full down there. There were some empty seats behind KSU's bench, but those have to be reserved for KSU fans. All I am saying is that it was a good crowd. 4700 or 4500, whatever, it was a good atmosphere.

What the hell is that?

You're actually suggesting that I take to sandwich boards outside the arena?

Please.

I'm sure the 3000 or so folks there provided a good atmosphere.

But let's not identify empty seats as fans, okay?

And let's not get all defensive and make excuses for the administration that has shown nothing but dishonesty since the day they took over.

AND HOW THE HELL DID THIS GET TO BE A SMACK OFF TOPIC?

Try again jackstick. I remember Les and Alan well enough that I had to explain to students who they were, why they're important, and why they need to get off their damn asses and show respect.
As for attendance, one last time, there are certain places in the dome that people CANNOT SIT IN PERIOD. That's out of ETSU's hands, if you have a problem with it take it up with the fire marshall.
And yea, the Foundation has worked hard, but let's talk about them for just a minute. They talk about how secretive ETSU athletics is on everything they do, well, why aren't they being more open about what they do and don't have? Aren't they doing the same things by "holding their cards?" And yes b-cat, I'm sure that was Dave's motives... IN 2004! Guess what, he found out quick that it hasn't worked, in fact it's been disastrous, and so did Stanton, otherwise Doc NEVER would have gotten this far with them. People can change their views, the HMIC changed his, and for the better. And guess what? He, much like the rest of us who see what they're going to accomplish understand that this isn't a return to the alleged "good ol' days," there's no more half-way doing things. The mentality is we're going to do it, do it right, and be more than a mediocre program in a self-absorbed OVERRATED pseudo elitist WANNABE conference like the Socon. Fact is if the Southern was half as good as they THINK that they are, my goodness look out SEC/ACC... By the way, they have four teams with a winning record over there in MBB, and they're averaging about 2000 fans per game as a conference.

According to people who don't go to games, so is ETSU...

You can't sit in seats right behind the court- which anyone watching on TV can clearly see.

Okay.

VolLover- you are really setting yourself up for failures in life if you deal with people who act one way, then say another.

You are suffering from the "pie-in-sky" sports fan syndrome- where if you say anything negative against the team- you're being disloyal.

Rex Grossman ISN'T the best quarterback in the league? Well, I can't say that- I'd be a disloyal Bears fan!

David Mullins- who incidentily in earlier posts you championed removing- is disingenous and a shady opportunist? I can't say that! I'd be a disloyal ETSU fan!

Assuming everything you say is true, then the athletic department's actions will have cost ETSU far more money than had they kept football originally, stayed in the Southern Conference, and kept their program at a higher level.

Again, remember, you have NO credibility- from your personal attacks on myself and even, once, my mother- to your fantasy where you accuse me of crimes in Johnson City when I'm living in Pittsburgh- to not backing up your word on VMI-Penn State- to now changing your tune on David Mullins!

PLEASE!

I never said I'm changing my tune on him, we'll see what happens in the next three years. And again, ONE MORE TIME, the seats that were empty behind the Kennesaw State bench MUST BE EMPTY BY RULE or given to the visiting team fans, end of discussion.
And anything I've said about you have came from more than one source, ALL spouting the same stories at different times. You don't like people talking about your lack of professionalism because it exposes you for who and what you are. I mean if you're so great, why aren't you in Pittsburgh still? You "wrote" for the Gazette, yet you're not there anymore. You can't get a media pass there because of your behavior, pure and simple. YOU made the poor choices, Dave didn't do it for you. To be honest with you, I would think that won't come not because you don't want to give Dave his money, but because you're afraid, a scared little unloved boy trying to play in a man's world and afraid to take both a metaphorical and REAL ass whipping because your mouth gets you into trouble. I mean if I were you, I couldn't look Mike White in the eye. So for the last time, until you come to games, until you see what's going on legitimately, give it a rest.

Who said I was talking about the seats behind the KSU bench?

Actually, the ones behind the scorers' table seemed to be quite spotty.

The "poor choice" I made was writing a column uncovering the secretive way DeChellis left to Penn State- with Mullins approval.

For the column I earned awards for investigative writing and overall writing ability from the Tennessee Sportswriters Association in 2004. In the latter award I competed against daily publications from all over the state.

Your "multiple sources" once stated nobody else applied for awards from the Tennessee Sportswriters Association.

That's believable.

Following that article my credentials were taken away.

Nothing more. Nothing less. An unethical hissy fit by an unqualified athletic director who has ducked me every step of the way.

I stand by the column and will reprint it to anyone who wishes to read it.

In conclusion- it is incredibly interesting after YEARS of totally ignoring the way I succeeded in a major market and saying "Well, you didn't make it here!" (Which is like harping on the fact an Oscar Winner didn't get the lead in a 2nd Grade school play)- you now are changing your tune.

To answer your question-

More money.

Quite probably more than you'll ever make.

Your award winning column was the only nominee, simple as that. And you're telling me that you are making more as a PART TIME never on the air news hack at the stations that NEVER play local news? Come on dude, most DJ's start out at like 7 dollars an hour, you can go push carts at Wal-Mart and make more than that.
And yea, as petty as this sounds junior, I make more money than you, considerably more.
You got your credential revoked over your actions with certain females. You creeped the female athletes out, the male athletes wanted to BEAT YOUR A$$, and that's came from several of them, and the coaches didn't want you around. You dug your own grave when you didn't leave the girl alone, made your "Another Dead Tim" comments on the other board, and generally kept being disrespectful. I mean seriously, why is it you didn't stay on as a stringer in Pittsburgh covering high school girls swimming? Or how about your American Legion baseball in West Virginia? No, you're back in the market that you say is so backwoods, hick, and beneath you, yet you work here, and I can promise you, it's not for the money, I know about what you make an hour, so don't talk about the big bucks you're making at that job because your not, you might be taking home 500 a week, which is about what an assistant manager at a fast food place brings home.
Now, onto the way the seating worked. ETSU did screw up, they should have sold ALL of the lower tickets first, and any seats that they can't sell by fire code, they need to do what UAB does at Legion Field. Buy a big damn cover with a Bucs logo on it and COVER UP THE SEATS that can't be sat in. I'm sure you could probably sell a sponsor on it and get the cost covered, and after the game starts, begin allowing people to move into the camera view seats, instead of having the three middle sections up high crammed in.

Ok, I have the solution to this whole issue as it has become tiresome. I will get in touch with the cameraman for the online streaming broadcasts. I will tell him (or her) that at timeouts and halftime to slowly pan across the crowd. This way Pittsburgh can count each and every person in the stands (and doesn't have to actually go to the game). He can then report back to us, after detailed consultation with his Kev. I really think that will work. For someone who doesn't go to the games, and another who "has given up" on the program, this should be good video evidence for them. We will then compare their numbers to the ones published in the box score. Oh wait, they then would say that the video was a production made in Hollywood similiar to the moon landing.......damn nevermind.....continue on guys.

88- It has been admitted to me by Ed DeChellis that ETSU jacks attendance.

Are you telling me that you don't believe they are still doing that?

Yes or no. That's all I want- a simple answer.

Don't say "you don't go to the games." I don't particularly want to support a program that has backstabbed me and it appears countless others, plain and simple.

And until the people who have done the backstabbing are removed, I won't.

Do you believe the athletic dept is not jacking attendance?

Yes or no.

So BucLover, you belittle the SoCon is your prior post adn say they are goign way beyond the socon. Which conferences do you envision ETSU courting? If they are playing 1-AA football then there is not a better conference out there. JMHO.

And VolLover- none of that inane rant you wrote is even CLOSE to being true.

I would like to know, however, as someone who claimed he was once a member of the media why "the coaches didn't want you there" is a valid excuse.

I'm sure David Mullins didn't want me there after I called him out for the way he handled DeChellis' departure.

However, let's just say what you say is true. Let's say that the coaches- including the former defensive coordinator who used to send me private messages as to what is going on and posted on the boards as "BucForNow,"

And Paul Hamilton-who I stay in touch with to this day

And the others that I had good relations with for seven years-

Let's say they all were lying to my face and every night at midnight they got together and stuck pins in little PittsburghBucs voodoo dolls.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

It is somewhat healthy for there to be a bit of friction between coaches and the press.

You, who once identified yourself as a former member of the media (Dobyns-Bennett student paper, perhaps?), should know that.

The press should not be a bunch of lapdogs who are concerned that maybe the coach won't go out for beers with them. The press should not be a cheerleader for the program they cover.

Admittedly, Johnson City is about the only place in the world where we have to explain this (or have a journalist of my stature on the boards, but then again nobody is forcing me to be here, either).

But it is also one of the few places where a sports editor would accept a lower-paying position as a flack.

Actually I have. I've even spoken on Alumni Day when they have "beloved" alumni come and speak to students. I've made several trips to JC to lecture on campus.

Lover, you're like folks who get mad because people criticize the president. They should just keep their mouths closed and accept it. I hope the bucs become great. I hope they win the ASun this year and do well in the NCAAs. That doesn't mean I'm happy they've become a lower-level team in a one of the worst conferences.

People now put ETSU in the same basket with UT-Martin, North Florida (the lowest ranked team in all of Division I last week - I haven't looked this week), Kennesaw State and the rest of the annual bottom dwellers. Heck, our biggest rivals are Baptist and Church of Christ schools in Nashville.

And I can't believe we're arguing about whether or not we had 4,000 at a game. 4,000 would have been a terrible attendance 15 years ago. But you'd rather act like nothing before '02 counts. That's crazy.

Kev---
You are talking about A BLIP ON THE RADAR SCREEN... Four years in the however many year history of ETSU basketball did they have the 10,000 plus attendance thing going. Blaming Dave Mullins for attendance dropping during the latter years of the Alan LeForce era and being in the tank during the majority of the DeChellis era is ridiculous. Blaming the A-Sun for THINGS THAT HAPPENED WHEN WE WERE IN THE SOCON, is ridiculous.
By the way UT-Martin made the playoffs in football this year, and why is being compared to the Church of Christ and Baptist schools an issue? We were compared to the Methodists, Church of Christ, Baptists and Presbyterians ALL in the Southern. (Wofford, Furman, Elon, Davidson)
Fact is ETSU is taking the steps necessary to get things back on track, it can't happen overnight, but a basketball team standing at 16-7 and leading the conference they are in will certainly help.

I'm great at making analogies- so here's my latest.

In 1948 the Cleveland Indians won the World Series and set an attendance record in doing so with 2.8 million fans.

The Tribe continued to be competitive throughout the fifties but never met those lofty attendance marks because-

A- The fad wore off

B- Bill Veeck sold the team

C- Hometown hero Lou Bourdeau was released in 1950 while still perceived to be in his prime.

Then came the doldrums after dealing away Rocky Colavito in 1960.

Let us say the Keith Jennings era was our 1948. The Ed DeChellis era was our 1954.

Then dropping football was our Colavito deal. And Mullins and Stanton should be held accountable.

16-7 (really 14-7) is a mirage. To ask us to get excited about A-Sun triumphs- sloppy ones in which large leads are lost consistently only to force the team to come back- something they've proven they can't do against quality competition like UT- isn't even comparable to asking when the Indians asked their fans to get excited about- say- the return of Colavito or the Tribe's third place finish in 1968 (in which Cleveland drew two million fewer fans than 1948 because they had acquired such a loser's image by this time).

It is akin to asking Indians fans to get excited because "We're moving out of the American League to Class AAA, and we'll be sure to win there!"

Not blaming anybody for anything. Just stating facts. I don't think I've ever mentioned Mullins in a message. OK, just now. That was the first time. I never give him a second thought.

I just bemoan the state of basketball at ETSU. That's all. It's really not that big an issue to me. I've started following the Vols instead. I also enjoy seeing Appy State doing so well, since - historically - they've been ETSU's biggest rival. Chattanooga changed that in the 90s in basketball. But I'm glad to see Appy doing so well in so many areas. There was a time when they were considered a "less prestigious" (I know this isn't the right term, but you know what I mean) athletic program than ETSU.

You know, US News & World Reports named Appy State the top school in America for incoming freshmen (a couple of years back). It amazes me how a school so similar, historically, to ETSU outperforms us in so many ways.

They laid the foundation to be able to do it. There are things that I don't agree with at ETSU, primarily their half a$$ed attempts at raising money, and actually believing that getting 10,000 or more people to give that could only give a couple of hundred dollars, but would come to games and support the teams are insignificant, and only the big money people matter. Those are the people that look at how Clemson, UGA, Tennessee, etc... and wonder how they're doing that? It's something funny about ETSU that's never happened there from a fan standpoint. Example: Appalachian State-The Mountaineers. Their fans feel a sense of belonging to those teams. And I know it's corny, I know it's cheesy, but even Marky does it with the Steelers. The Steelers are "his team," much the same way there are still people to this day in Baltimore that pull for the Colts. The Tennessee's and Georgias or the world have done incredible at that. Even though most of them don't have never met Erik Ainge, he's "their quarterback." You hear fans talk about those schools in the term of not so much "they need to win," but "WE need to win." ETSU for some reason has only given a crap about the 10 percent that allegedly control 90 percent of the money, the funny thing though, is that 90 percent that only has 10 percent of the money, those are the ones who buy the shirts, pay to park, will spend a 100 dollars that they DON'T HAVE on trips to go watch their team play. The big donors are nice, but just go to the successful athletic programs, they have their big donors, but the masses that are in the seats, that REALLY support the team don't have 5000 dollars a year or more to give. THAT is where ETSU has gone wrong, and they've been doing it for the last 30-40 years. It's funny, the alumni office sort of gets it, the campaign just sucked. Yard signs that say ETSU Pride don't cut it...