NCAAbbs

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I still hate CofC.

Well it looks like Bobby Cremins is now the head coach for C of C. I wonder how he will do because Tom never seemed to get anything done over there.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2508576

He's old, but he's a name. The guy coaches for about five or six years, gets them back on track, he'll retire. I think though he sees what buzz, Daughtery, and other failed major coaches can do at the mid-major level, and he figures why not? 225k a year, they probably hooked him up with a house on the beach, country club membership, a car, and any other free stuff they can come up with. Everyone wins down there. I still don't like CofC though, they play in an A-Sun caliber DUMP!

I'm not sure Cremins is a "failed major coach."

Those were some pretty good years at Georgia Tech and I don't recall the team doing much before he got there.

He had some great success at Appalachian then Ga. Tech. i think he just got burnt out and a little out of touch in Atlanta. That and it can't be easy going up against Dean Smith, Coach K and some of the other ACC powers year in, year out. Think if Ga. Tech had stayed in the SEC, their football might be in Vanderbilt's situation, but their basketball team would be neck and neck with Kentucky every year.
CofC got a good transitional coach.

Didn't Georgia Tech win a football national championship and make the Final Four twice out of the ACC?

Yeah, they should have stayed in the SEC to be a poor man's Kentucky in football and basketball.

Yea, now they don't sell out games unless they are playing Georgia or Notre Dame in football.
A poor man's Kentucky in the SEC? Doubt it, weaker in basketball historically, they would have been right at the top there. And wh knows, football could have possibly been better off than they have been recently. Ga. Tech football is a joke in Atlanta and the surrounding area. Go through there on a Saturday, you see more Georgia G's, Power T's, and Auburn logos then you do anything. My uncle, who lives down there jokes about it constantly.
But whatever, CofC got probably what they needed. I don't care about Ga. Tech either.

"Think if Ga. Tech had stayed in the SEC, their football might be in Vanderbilt's situation, but their basketball team would be neck and neck with Kentucky every year."

Uh, Sherlock . . . YOU JUST IMPLIED THEY SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN THE SEC TO BE A POOR MAN'S KENTUCKY!!!!!!"

The Georgia Tech situation is not unique. It is difficult for any college in a pro town to draw.

Even Miami has difficulty drawing big numbers consistently.

You have to be kidding comparing a program like Georgia Tech to a cellar dweller like Vandy.
Georgia Tech won a national championship in football in 1990 and have 4 total. When was the last time Vandy won one?
Also Georgia Tech has won 22 bowls games all time. that leaves them tied with their rivals down the road in Atens for 6th in wins.
1.Alabama 29
2. Southern Cal 28
3. Tennessee 24
4T Penn St 24
4T Oklahoma 23
6T Georgia Tech 23.
That puts them ahead of teams like Texas. Florida State. Michigan. Miami, Ohio State, LSU Auburn.
There winning percentage of .667 (22-11) in bowl games also put them in the top ten in the catagory as well..

They have pretty good tradition in football way above anywhere Vandy would dream of being.

RZ

Rod there's a huge difference in playing Duke, Wake Forest and North Carolina every week than Alabama, Tennessee, LSU. Would Ga. Tech have won the NC in 1990 playing an SEC schedule? Doubt it. That's the point I'm trying to make. They left the SEC for two reasons, basketball and academics, a decision that I've heard from several that they would like to change. And try to note that I said might... Truthfully, they probably wouldn't be that bad off, but who knows? Stringent admissions standards, competing against a school in the SEC that's won more national titles than the top half of the ACC COMBINED (Alabama). Week in week out, even if they played in the East which is weak this year, it would be tough.
Oh well, who cares about Ga. Tech. The whole point of this is CofC hired Bobby Cremins, an over the hill coach that will win at the level of the Southern Conference.

In 1990 six of the eight ACC teams had winning records.

They gave half the title to Colorado that year- who had a loss and a tie and that tainted five-down win.

And the Big 8 that year was not as good as the ACC.

I believe the Jackets even enjoyed larger margins of victory in the two common opponents they had with the Buffs that year.

Did they play on the field? Nope. I'm sorry but week in, week out Ga. Tech did not have as tough of a schedule. And look at their four NC's... Two of them happened when Ga. Tech was in the Southern Conference, one in the SEC, and the other in the ACC... Their 1990 title the finished with a tie on their record and won the freaking Citrus Bowl! At any rate, say you want about them, they were paper champs in 1990, and I don't really care...
And to claim they don't have a fan base because they are pro sports town is ABSURD! Atlanta is an SEC town, their biggest draw in the Georgia Dome for football is the SEC championship, not the Atlanta Falcons. You can buy Falcons tickets at the ticket office, if you can get SEC Championship tickets, great. They are usually gone by now.

No playoff=paper champion period in football.

How many of those SEC Championship tickets are bought by Joe Average off the street who lives in Atlanta? I would feel confident in saying very very few. It is a once a year event to the Championship game of one of the toughest football conferences in the country made up of school with very large and loyal fan bases for the most part. I think that might draw better then a Falcons game.

R

Absurd, huh?

Oh yes. Pitt is more popular than the Steelers, the Hurricanes over the Dolphins, Owls over the Eagles, Bearcats over the Bengals, Cougars over the Texans, etc. . . .

In atlanta yes it is absurd. The Falcons dont' sell out games, the Hawks don't sell out games, and neither do the Thrashers... Don't get me started on the Braves, my uncle called me one year and asked if I wanted divisional series tickets, they had a stack of about 1000 just sitting on a desk for employees there to take what they want.
And yea Rod, I agree about the paper champion thing, I hate it, but the closest thing I-A will ever get to a real playoff is if all the conferences had a title game, and the winners played a tourney.
And actually alot of Atlanta/surrounding area residents have tix to the SECC, they were given the option to purchase them when the game first moved down there, so the ones that have no interest in the SEC just sell theirs and make money.

You didn't refute me- you just said Atlanta is a crappy sports town.

The fact remains- you cannot name a city with an NFL team where the college team is more popular. There simply isn't one.

Forget tickets- there's a mindset almost where on Sunday- the college game is completely forgotten for the pro contest.

Georgia Tech is not a bad athletic program. They may not have the fan base of Nebraska or someone- but then again in Atlanta there's a lot to do and lots of bills to pay.

I do not know why you are picking on them.

I've seen the way they are treated down there. Nobody cares about them.
I can't believe you brought up Miami, that's possibly the worst sports town in America. They'll support the team if they have an amazing record and are in the playoffs, that's about it. The Heat, Dolphins, and Marlins don't sell out games, and forget Miami. The Canes get sellouts when they play Va. Tech, Florida State and/or Florida at home, that's about it. Cincy, Houston and Pittsburgh? Wow, those are some powerhouse college programs. That's like saying Nashville isn't a town that likes college sports because nobody goes to Vandy games.

And if any of 'em were in the SEC you'd be making excuses for them.

With the exception of Ole Miss/Miss State/Vandy, selling out games really isn't that big of an issue in the SEC. LSU was still filling the stadium after Katrina hit last year, meanwhile the Saints were only putting in about 60 thousand.

Okay I will name one. Phoenix. The Sun Devils have easily averaged more in attendance the the Cardinals playing in the same stadium.
Or one could point out that the NFL can't seem to keep a team in LA but USC and UCLA both have had substained fan support in football for many years.

R

That's not an example of the popularity of Arizona State- it's a testament to the ineptitude of the Cardinals.

Regardless, when you can only name one team- and its the Cardinals- then that tells you all you need to know.

Typical Pitt, he says you can't name 1 TEAM. I do and he comes back and says well you can't name 2.

R

Here is another one Pitt. it is about 40 miles from Detriot to Ann Arbor.
Michigan is a hell of a lot bigger draw then the Lions.

R

So the exceptions prove the rule.

Actually, if you want to go that route- it makes my arguement stronger. Certainly the Ravens are more popular than Navy (30 miles from Baltimore), Giants and Jets more popular than Army (55 miles from Manhattan, no idea about the other boroughs), the Colts more popular than the Hoosiers (53 miles from Indianapolis), the Bears more popular than Northwestern (18 miles from Chicago), the 49ers more popular than Stanford and Cal (Berkeley is 13 miles from SF, 33 from Palo Alto), the Broncos more popular than Colorado (28 miles from Denver), etc. etc. etc.

See, Rod, this is why I think you're dumb. You take a minor point in order to try and take people away from the original point.

It's like someone saying "ETSU always stunk at football."

Well, they did. Okay, you can pull out 1996 and 1969 and debate whether or not 6-5- or for that matter 4-7 is "stinking" and Kim Reece will pull out 10,000 essays stating that no team in the history of Division I-AA ever stunk but you get the point.

Same thing here. You came up with two state universities going against probably the two worst franchises in the NFL (or are the- I don't know- Texans, Browns, or Saints worse than those two? You tell me!). Doesn't really refute the fact that in general the NFL franchises that share cities with a major university are almost always the more popular- and always when the college is not a state university.

Or is the exception Georgia Tech, Rod? The very team that Lover attacked by implying they should have stayed in the SEC.

WHY? Georgia Tech would only continued to be overshadowed in the SEC- and that move was made in- what- 1874? (Go ahead and find the actual 20th Century year now Rod- the rest of us got my point). They have proven to be successful in basketball and football.

The team that "nobody cares about because they aren't a poor mans Kentucky in the SEC" (maybe not an exact quote- but you know the point I'm making- don't avoid it) actually has national prestige in basketball and drew 51,000 a game for football in 2005.

Did they not draw 100,000 because they were in the ACC, or was it because they play in a City with a heckuva lot more to do in than Starkville, Knoxville, Lexington- pretty much any SEC town?

Question I have here is why in the world would Lover even bring up this arguement-

"Think if Ga. Tech had stayed in the SEC, their football might be in Vanderbilt's situation, but their basketball team would be neck and neck with Kentucky every year."

And why do you find this statement of mine-

"It is difficult for any college in a pro town to draw."

So offensive?

What, State College is a pro town now because they have the Spikes?

Bottom line- Georgia Tech does a good job and College of Charleston just hired a good coach that would have been out of ETSU's league.

Any questions?

Yea I've said that three times already... Whatever though, it sucks I think we play the Cougars this year. Could possibly be a situation where we're outcoached, again...

Name for me the opponent who won't outcoach ETSU.

King?

OHHHHH DECHELLIS!!!! OHHHHH TOMATO CANS!!!!!! OHHHHHHHH WHEELING W. VA!!!!!! OHHHHHHH ROBERTO CLEMENTE!!!!! OHHHHHHH MARIO LEMIEUX!!!!!!! OHHHH NEW ARENA BUILT FOR HOCKEY!!!!! OHHHHHHHHHHH HOCKEY SUCKS!!!!! OHHHHHH HOW ABOUT THAT 1970 JACKSONVILLE TEAM!!!! OHHHHH ROD SHAW YOU KNOW WHICH WAY I LIKE IT!!!!!!! OHHHHHHHH ORGASM!!!!!!

Mercer, Stetson, Morehead State, Sinch Valley, er I mean UVA-Wise, UNF... The rest we'd better have more talent.
Motherbucker, good to have you back... Congratulations BTW, dog...

Well, again you'd be right, because MotherBucker is not a one-trick pony whose act we've seen a thousand times before but rather an intelligent poster who makes lots of new points.

And you'd also be right that Mercer won't outcoach us, because after all, David Mullins selected Murry Bartow over Mark Slonaker.

And we all know how brilliant David Mullins is!

Anyone who recruits out of the gene pool of Lex Luger doesn't get a vote of confidence from me. Especially when the guy is ghost white and has the build of a beat writer for the Wheeling, WV newspaper.

Well, you'd be right, because your references are so obscure that I figure that you are trying to emulate Dennis Miller, and we all know people who studied Journalism at Point Park College are never wrong.

Well if you actually did your research like a good journalist, and like EVERYONE who followed the A-Sun and ETSU this year, you would know that Mercer Forward Brian Pfohl is none other than the sun of professional wrestler Lex Luger... Had you been "covering" the tournament from the dome instead of West Virginia you would have heard the people talking about it and the fact that "The Total Package" couldn't be there because he was in jail for drug posession... So no, the reference isn't that obscure to those who followed the bucs and the conference this past season.

----- Tech football
Tech is a Top 10 all time program in wins and bowl games.
Tech was the first program to attend all 4 of the "big bowls".
Their incredibly rich history, especially from the Heisman/Alexander/Dodd eras, speaks for itself.
During their heyday in the 50's under Dodd, Tech was every bit the juggernaut today's USC is.
Tech DOES sell out almost every game. NCAA attendance figures agree with this. The problem is GT's visitor sections are FAR too generous, and "chairback" seating for high level donors are always sold out -- but rarely filled. Very very few Tech fans want to see the chairback seats stay.


----- Tech basketball
Cremins is a hell of a basketball coach. He brought Mark Price to Tech, and that was the beginning of a new era in Tech basketball. He continued with the likes of John Salley, Kenny Anderson, Travis Best, Matt Harpring, Dennis Scott, Drew Barry, Brian Oliver, Duane Farrell, and Tom Hammonds. Big name talent.

Cremins led Tech to the 1990 Final Four with "Lethal Weapon 3" (Scott/Anderson/Oliver).

Cremins is a class act, and one of the most colorful figures in college basketball ever.

Cremins problem toward the end of his tenure at Georgia Tech was the NBA. He had a huge problem with "one-and-done" superstar players that left the cubbard empty.


----- Tech and the SEC
Tech left the SEC over academic rules. The SEC wanted to implement -- long before the NCAA did -- the ability for schools to cut scholarship players. Coach Bobby Dodd did not want this ... he viewed is as making students pawns. He believed that a student should be able to keep his scholarship. Dodd said if the SEC passed the rule, Georgia Tech would leave the conference. When it passed, Georgia Tech left the SEC the next day.

Georgia Tech strongly believed it could make it on its own as an Ind. because Notre Dame and Penn State were doing great on their own at the time.

The GT Athletic Association gradually bled to death over time. GT applied twice for readmission into the SEC. The first time they had the votes, as Bear Bryant promised Bobby Dodd he would vote for allow Tech back in -- which would be enough. However, when the day of voting came, Bear did not show up.. and Alabama's replacement representative voted Tech down. The second time, U(sic)GA and the Mississippi schools blocked it. As the GTAA grew to shambles in the 70s. Tech joined the ACC -- desperate to be in a major conference -- in 1978. Homer Rice took over as AD in 1980 ... and brought the GTAA from shambles to glory.


----- Tech and the SEC today
There is, however, to this day a strange atmosphere in Bobby Dodd any time a SEC team comes to play. Bobby Dodd really only comes to life when Tech plays the ACC old guard rivals Clemson and Florida State. But virtually any SEC team ... Bobby Dodd comes to life. Bobby Dodd was louder when Vandy came to town than it was against all ACC teams except Clemson, FSU, VT, and Miami. Games against Auburn and Georgia were louder than all ACC games. I'm willing to bet the Ole Miss game will be very loud and active as well.

There is a portion of older Tech fans who want to see GT back in the SEC... but that will never happen, for a few reasons:
- SEC is terrible at basketball
- Georgia
- SEC would be taking a paycut ... ACC pays out more per team than any other conference in the nation
- SEC academics are a few light years from the ACC.
ACC: Duke, UNC, Georgia Tech, UVA all have world renouned programs.
SEC: Uhhhh. Vandy is good but will bankrupt you to the tune of $45K a year.



Personally, my dream conference is:
ACC Coastal
- Duke
- Georgia Tech
- NC State
- Florida State
- Virginia
- Central Florida

ACC Atlantic
- UNC
- Wake
- Clemson
- Miami
- Florida
- Maryland

Notes:
- Virginia Tech is a bunch of thugs... I could care less if they took a long walk off a short pier.
- Boston College is too far north, mmkay?
- I wanted to add South Carolina, but too much bad blood

You are correct. Colorado getting a share of that title is one of the biggest jokes of all time.

They really had THREE LOSES and a tie.... you forgot the "phantom clipping" call against Notre Dame in their bowl game against Colorado.

It's worth mentioning in 1990 that UVA, UNC, and Clemson were all nationally very competitive programs. Tech went into #1 Virginia's house and left with a win.

Part of Atlanta's problem is the exceptionally high turnover rate among people living there. I bet if you polled 100 people in Atlanta, over 70 would say they have recently (< 15 yrs ago) moved to Atlanta... and I bet every damn one would say they rooted for the team from their hometown. The other is the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.... who panders to UGA so much it will make you have binges of dry heave vomiting. The AJC is commonly called the fishwrapper among GT fans.

Swagger, the fact you hate Va. Tech shows you def. have an intelligence far above anyone NEAR Blacksburg...
My question is, when UGA comes to town, Bobby Dodd stadium is red and black, I know because I have a friend who's dad played at UGA, they go to that game every year, no matter where they play. i've seen the pictures.
Why doesn't Ga. Tech get out of the ACC? When Arkansas leaves, and I do mean when (I suspect somewhere around 2010 at the latest), why not jump back in?
Academics? Uga is pretty solid, as well as Alabama. Every school in the SEC is known for something, but obviously there is no comparison to Tobacco Road.
Basketball... The Florida Gators... I hate em, I hate that Eddie Munster lookin little (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Billy Donovan, but they're good. Kentucky will be back when Tubby is fired, Tennessee is on the rise again, LSU, Miss. State, South Carolina, Arkansas... Look back through the years, the Hogs have a couple of NC's as SEC members, Kentucky has had a couple, though none recently, and Florida this year. It's not a bad basketball conference anymore, and the women's side is crazy good. There have been years that the UT women's program has made more money than the men's... Sad I know... Truthfully, Miami and Va. Tech need to leave the ACC with BC, they were three bad additions in my opinion, you guys got two thug programs and the people who didn't get into Notre Dame.

There is red/black scattered throughout the gold, but it's not as bad as any UGA fan would make it out to be. There have been problems on GT boards with people in the chairback sections selling their tickets and UGA fans appearing in them -- and things got nasty when names were called out asking for an explanation. I suspect the new AD at Tech, Dan Radakovich from LSU, will tend to things like that, as he has a reputation for no nonsense and getting the job done.

For all the reasons I listed above. If you polled the Tech fan base -- at best you're looking at a 30/70 split for SEC/ACC. And -- most importantly -- the big money backers want nothing to do with the SEC.

The academics aren't even close. UGA's academics is a joke. Quick -- how many points is a 3-pointer worth? Congrats -- you just passed Jim Harrick's basketball GPA padding course with an A -- even if you didn't show up.

SEC basketball is not even remotely close. I would have considered CUSA basketball, before the Big East raid, far superior than SEC basketball. Florida is a good fit for the ACC though. As it stands -- about half the ACC could stand a good chance at winning the SEC these days. Duke, UMD, UVA, and UNC women's basketball programs are very good. At best you're talking a draw there.

I don't think Notre Shame will ever stop being a I-A ind. They make too much money on their own. They beat I-AAA Mount Saint Central Western Texas Community Methodist A&M and they'll be ranked the next #8 the next day. They are the ultimate sidewalk fan group. Sidewalk fans make money, and oddly, can be some of the most loyal fans. Miami is, however, a great fit in the ACC. BC is a geographical foobar, and VT is the biggest group of thugs, morons, and criminals outside of Athens, Georgia.

The National Champions and the Post Season NIT champs and the SEC isn't remotely close??? And TV cameras don't lie, neither have my trips through Georgia on weekends when UGA and GT play... There's no question of who the larger fan base is. And if you guys get so fired up for SEC teams, again, why not have that every week? It'll put fannies in the seats apparently. UGA fired Harrick and the Athletic Director over that (And yea, UGA's president does indeed suffer from rectal cranial inversion syndrome). Fans can sell their tickets to whoever they want, that would really be a bad idea to try and alienate those who sell their tickets. Also if you knew how many people bought the partial ticket packages GT does just to get the Ga. tix.... And C-USA before the SEC in basketball? Go back and look at the amount of teams going to the postseason out of the SEC... Yes agreed, the fan base for basketball is better in the ACC, just the same as come football season the SEC rules the roost (See 0-22 Gamecocks averaging 80K plus per).
Lastly, I was talking about BC being the yankees that couldn't get into Notre Dame... And though I don't like them, I will give the fighting Irish credit, they've been the fighting Irish the last few years playing Michigan, Tennessee, Texas A and M... This year opening up for them is brutal, Ga. Tech, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, before a breather with Stanford, then UCLA and a Navy team that hasn't beaten them in years, but has been bowling recently... I can't stand the domers, but give them their due they aren't shying away from some big names. there are no I-AA's or any directional Louisiana's on there...
And if someone gave Frank Beamer a roundhouse kick to the face, I couldn't be happier.

Even a blind squirrel finds an occassional nut.

We're not arguing fan base -- we're arguing who's in the seats in Bobby Dodd. While UGA fans do raid some seats ... it's not that bad. However, to hear it from any UGA fan, there isn't a GT fan in the whole place. GT is a very very tough school with a total enrollment of about 12,500. UGA is a drive-thru diploma mill of over 32,000. I would *hope* they have a bigger "fan" base.

But their poor academic standards and integrity remain largely unchanged. And just because Bobby Dodd comes to life for SEC teams doesn't mean we want to play in the SEC. Having a SEC team come to Atlanta is the best of both worlds... we get a brief shot of nostalgia, without all the huge downsides that come from joining the SEC.

That does happen but it's overblown. I know GT fans who buy UGA season tickets just to get the GA game ticket. So what? And yes, if the fat cats behind the opponent's 50 yd line in chairbacks can't bother to come to the games, they clearly don't need the tickets any longer. I'm hoping Radakovich has guidelines to add along these lines, although most GT fans wish chairbacks would be elimianted completely.

South Carolina is a party school. I've attended there, so I know. There's f'n NOTHING to do in Columbia other than get drunk and watch football. Wooooooo hooooooooo Jim Bob! And yes, C-USA, before the Big East raids, was a better conference on top and overall. And I'm not talking about fan base, although the ACC's is clearly superior... I'm talking about talent. If the ACC played the SEC in a challenge like the ACC-Big10 Challenge ... the SEC might never win. Although the Big 10 has never won, they've at least made it close some years.

They need to. Their diet for the longest time was a bunch of nobodies.

All I can say is that after reading Swagger I think I am going to root for Georgia Tech now!

I really enjoyed hearing your stories about Georgia Tech. It reminded me that in the '50s one of Dodd's top assistants was John Robert Bell, the greatest coach in ETSU history and all around gentleman.

One thing I did some research on once upon a time is the integration of the Sugar Bowl. I found it fascinating.

For those of you who don't know- in 1955 a player named Bobby Grier broke the color barrier of the Sugar Bowl playing for Pitt against Georgia Tech.

This has always been a team looked upon with great reverence at Pitt because it was the revival of the football program. Pitt hadn't been to a bowl game since 1937- when they won their eighth National Title.

Anyway- the black Pitt player was Bobby Grier. I spoken to Grier about his experience.

What is fascinating is that Grier does not speak of the experience as being negative. He recalls getting all kinds of fan mail and words of encouragement.

When Gov. Marvin Griffins protested Georgia Tech's participation to play against a black player- the Tech students burned him in effigy. This was six years before the integration of Georgia Tech.

It is a POWERFUL statement that all of the south was not racist bigots- as so many so-called historians would have you believe.

Anyway, from what Bell told me, Griffins was making this stand for political reasons. I don't know what was in the Governor's heart. From what Bell tells me he was a politician pressured into a political move and actually told Dodd that while he couldn't publicly come out and say he was wrong, he instead took up an invitation to sit on the sidelines with the Jackets players.

However, right when you think Georgia Tech was coming around to the right way of thinking- the Sugar Bowl was not. After Grier's participation the Louisiana Legislature banned blacks from the Sugar Bowl. If you look at the records- the next several years the Sugar Bowl was an all white affair.

This in itself was a big tragedy for college football. Look at the records- a two-loss Minnesota team is given the National Title over an undefeated Ole Miss squad. If Ole Miss gets to play an integrated team in the Sugar Bowl- well- the votes I believe were gathered before the bowls back then but who knows what sort of a cultural statement this made in preventing them from their just deserts?

Or for that matter- Alabama in 1966- who was undefeated and the two-time defending champ- but instead they gave it to 9-0-1 Notre Dame and Michigan State.

Final note on the matter. Pitt actually declined the 1963 Sugar Bowl- at 9-1 and ranked third in the nation- because the Sugar Bowl would not let their black players play. They wound up not going to a bowl- and it wouldn't be until John Majors came that they would be competitive again.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on it. The blind squirrel though has found an awful lot of nuts over the years in basketball. Guess it's kind of like the ACC and football. I always find it funny in the Peach Bowl when the SEC sends the five, sometimes sixth team to the game and the ACC sends their third.
Each conference has its' strong suits, and I also believe that the backbiting in the SEC ended when Roy Kramer retired... Great commish in some regards but not one for keeping the diplomacy between the teams. Of course I still like to blame Arkansas too, they were the cause of the destruction of the old SWC, so why not blame them?
Conference USA was nowhere near the SEC in basketball before the Big East raid. THey had Memphis, Cincy, and recently Louisville had shot back up.. They weren't much given the SEC puts atleast six teams in the NCAA's, sometimes more.

Wouldn't it be nice if the so called "Lover" of the Buccanneers was a shill for the Southern Conference and not the SEC?

That argument is a bunch of BS. That was from the days the SEC was 12 teams, and the ACC was 9. Furthermore, the Peach Bowl has since been restructured... and thank god, b/c the ACC bowls need some serious help.

The Big East is killing the Gator.
The Peach is a very very strong bowl now.
Champs Sports is a decent lower teir.
Charlotte Tire Bowl is a decent lower teir.
Humanitarian Bowl is an awful bid.
Any at-large (Emerald Nuts, San Fran, Silicon Valley Classic, etc) is an awful bid.

ACC desperately needs good high teir bowls.

You are in an incredibly small minority in thinking that.

Consistently Quality Programs then:
CUSA: Memphis, Cincinnati, Marquette, Charlotte, Louisville, Tulsa
SEC: Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi St, Alabama

It's still the SEC five or six selection... I was talking about the Kelly Washington era at Tennessee when UT kept playing in the Peach Bowl.
The SEC selection goes SECC (BCS), Cap One or Cotton, Outback, Peach, Music CIty/Independence... That's the way the SEC has selected their bowls since they went to the 12 team division, and on years that the conference gets two BCS bids, which has happened four times in the short history of the BCS...
And back to basketball, are you forgetting about runs that Fogler made at South Carolina, as well as Dave Odom? How bout the solid years Auburn had before Cliff Ellis just let his program tank??? Better yet, you forget that Vandy tends to win atleast 16-18 every year, and under Harrick, though as it was proven Georgia wasn't exactly playing fair, they were winning... Speaking of playing fair, I'm not so sure that the 1990 National championship in football is a co-championship anymore... I seem to recall Ga. Tech being stripped after it was found that they CHEATED?! The NCAA may have let you keep it the same way they let Alabama keep the 1992 title for using an ineligible player, who won the Florida and Tennessee games for them that year...
I guess here in a few weeks we'll see how many fans are at Bobby Dodd stadium are there watching their loyal sons march on to victory...

Well, it will be more than what will be at ETSU. ;-)

Furthermore, the arguement can be made it will be more than in Knoxville. Here's why.

When you get to a 100,000 seat stadium, you're catering to people who aren't so much there for the football but rather for the event. They are there for an excuse to float their boat to Neyland, to drink in the parking lot, to be able to say on Monday "Guess Where I Was!"

Now, can they name the starting fullback for UT? Probably not.

I remember going to the exhibition game the Redskins played in Knoxville so Heath Shuler would for, for once, play in front of a home crowd that liked him.

The game went into overtime- and a guy who obviously had been a season ticket holder for the Vols sitting behind me had to have the NFL overtime rule explained to him.

That guy isn't a football fan. That guy gets those tickets to be seen and probably doesn't know the final score 10 minutes after he's out of the yard- and half the crowd at a UT game probably fits into that mold.

The SEC has good bowls... I don't argue that. I just thing the bowl scene is long overdue for some shuffling.

Note that I listed CONSISTENT quality programs. I don't give points for fluke years or a flash in the pan.

You're flat out wrong there. The NCAA got onto GT because our registrar of something like 30 years was not properly retrained in NCAA guidelines over the course of his tenure. As a result, ineligible players got to play. In specific, the NCAA requires x hours GO TOWARD YOUR MAJOR every year. A few Tech students loaded up on electives, which the NCAA won't let you do any more. All the students that were "ineligible" were in good academic standing, they just didn't meet that extra NCAA requirement, and the old registrar wasn't checking for it. The years ineligible players were used, however, was from roughly 1998-2003. Tech has lost scholarships for two years in football because of this -- and even that was overkill punishment.

Notre Dame will be over 100% capacity... and I will be one of the people there making that happen.

Sorry Swagger, you're wrong.

We all know SEC schools never cheat. They are clean as fresh snow! lmfao

Pitt, I don't believe he said that SEC schools never cheat. Most schools in every conference cheat, he just said that the 1990 title that GTU claims wasn't valid because of the use of ineligible players.

Yeah, and Swagger refuted it.

Actually, the point here is that JD is going nuts on SEC superiority. I, personally, love the SEC but I can't STAND this shilling that the fans do for it which leads to this looking down their noses at programs like ETSU- which leads to the subservient role we're expected to play by the population at large in east Tennessee.

DUH!

Another thing. JD's point about Alabama being allowed to keep their 1992 title despite using an ineligible player.

Actually, the player in question is Antonio Langham, and I believe the point here is that after 1992- AFTER the national title- he signed a commitment with an agent on a cocktail napkin (I'm told. I have never seen the napkin).

Now- that's against the rules- Alabama had to forfeit its 1993 schedule. It's always funny how Tennessee feels they should count that 22-22 tie from that year as a win. Talk about hollow victories!!!!!!

But how did that make him ineligible for 1992?

So- in what has been the catch phrase of the day- LARUE- DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!!!!