NCAAbbs

I'm so proud of our two million dollar facility, oh I'm sorry, 2.2 million dollar facility, and all these supposed great golfers from Great Britain and Ireland. Men's golf, SECOND PLACE in the A-Sun! Jacksonville is better than us. Rhys wasn't even the highest finisher on OUR OWN TEAM, let alone the tournament.
So let's here, we pay our golf coach six figures, have a state of the art golf facility, supposedly a top ten golf team, and finish second in our own conference tournament, to a team THAT HAD NEVER WON A CONFERENCE TITLE IN GOLF!
The Mullins three on the choke fest...

MBB-15-13, first round exit.
Men's Tennis- regular season champs, no postseason as they lost to BELMONT in the semis of their tourney.
MGOLF - National ranking, can't win in the lowly A-Sun.

I thought we'd paid coaches to win championships, not finish second. SECOND SUCKS in ANYTHING!

I'm convinced ETSU will never be any good until they get rid of Fred Warren.

For the money they pay him they do not get any of the investment back.

I noticed UNF was participating in the event... anyone know why they were allowed?

well it is golf..doesnt matter how good you are all it takes is one off day to lose a tourney..and thats what happend. you all are prob better then jacksonville 4 out of 5 times u play..just so happend that this time was the one time u werent.

This is when it matters, bottom line. That second place trophy will look nice right next to the women's golf stuff. Funny, the two teams finish identical in their conference tourneys and the women's team hasn't been around that long.

And also, A-Sun fans, Fred Warren is one of the highest paid golf coaches in the country and really has done nothing to show for it.

I mean he hasn't. If you were paying him on par with what a golf coach generally makes at this level, then, yes, a team that contends for conference championships would be okay.

But Warren is living off a No. 3 ranking in 1996 and hasn't done anything since then. Second in the A-Sun, third in the Southern Conference, and no local players.

ETSU really needs to de-emphasize golf. I won't say that "we'd still have football and be in the Southern Conference" if they had, because it really was the petty agenda of an athletic director who had no business being hired in the first place, but the ship isn't sailing right until this guy quits hording the money.

how much is this golf coach of yours paid? and do u really get second place trophy? in that case kennesaw got one for track.

He makes over six figures, and gets 50k every five years just for staying. By the same token, he raises his own money to cover his budget, but if you're going to dump as much money in as golf has seen recently, top results should happen.
And Marky, there's not been a local golfer in the last five years good enough to play competitive D-one... They tried to Andrew Paduch, who was decent at the local municipal course, but anything remotely challenging he was garbage.
Oh and I don't really pride myself on facts, I didn't get a good look at the complete results, we finished third, behind first year D-1 member North Florida.

last five years who have played D1 golf and for teams who make the NCAA tourney. Fabulous Fred just doesn't go after them.

I've not legitimately seen a local golfer from the Tri-Cities good enough to compete at the supposed national level that Fabulous Fred "competes" on.
I know of maybe three guys that could walk-on the golf team that are at ETSU right now, but he would never give them the chance to do it. One could probably make it, the guy plays The Ridges from the pro-tees and shoots low 70's...

My point is that if you got rid of Warren, you would have potential athletic donors who would be willing to give to other sports.

I don't see where it serves Warren to have the budget and salary he does for the results he does.

Perhaps the people Warren brings in from overseas live the rest of their life in Johnson City and start up businesses that employ thousands. I don't know.


But a couple of years ago when Clemson won a National Championship with all players from South Carolina- it sent a message to me.

And I can't help but wonder if ETSU would be better off not participating in tournaments with the Oklahoma States and Stanfords of the golf world, but with local colleges and local players.

Addition by subtraction, if you will.

but Chip Spratlin, I believe was his name, from Johnson City played his golf at lowly Auburn and won the NCAA individual championship. Currently, Brad Robinson and Scot Ploucha, both from JC play for programs at Coastal and Wilmington and have played in the NCAA tourney. They are not the top player on their team but are top three.

Bearcat- Are you saying that Lover- AKA J.D. LaRue- gets information from bad sources and doesn't know what he's talking about?

No! Can't be!

As much as I hate the man personally give Dub his due. ETSU golf is a nationally recognized program. He tried locals, he tried the American kids a few years back, and his teams were in the tank. I don't fault the guy for trying to win, I fault him for being a jackass and NOT winning when the big one is on the line.
And let's be honest, which would you rather have, three guys who have participated in the NCAA tourney, or a TEAM who goes and finishes in the top 10/15 yearly with the Brits/Irish/Scottish kids.
I don't know who the three guys are you're talking about, but in their cases, why would they come to ETSU when two of those guys are playing AT THE BEACH and the other went to a BCS conference program, and was probably an Auburn fan to begin with.

That doesn't make any sense.

For the investment they give golf, I don't want a No. 3 team 10 years ago.

I want a program that competes on a national level- A REAL ONE.

Conference championships. NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION!!!!!

We have neither.

and neither does Fred "I love cats" Warren!!!

I guarantee you that ETSU spends more on golf than any of these three schools and probably more than UNCW and Coastal combined. However, I feel that this golf program does nothing to contribute to the overall mission of the University. Whereas, having sixty kids from within a 150 mile radius getting an education and often staying within the region to utilize that education does serve the mission. Golf at ETSU is its own entity, not a member of the Univeristy community or the Tri-Cities region as a whole.

I see your point in some cases, but once Warren went back to foreign players, they went back to competing nationally. I'm very frank about not liking him, I think deciding between him and Dave Mullins is like deciding between a complete douche and a terd sandwich.
How many of the football guys actually stayed here? I remember a guy by the name of Alex Todt who played at ETSU, he coached at Va. High for about three years, left to a northern Va. school... Or Jatavis Sanders, back in the Atlanta area. Granted if that's the same Greg Stubbs I think it is, he stayed behind, and kudos for building a heck of a program. I see where the local recruits stayed here, but the kids that were brought in from out of the area, how many stayed? And truthfully, how many locals stayed because let's be honest, the Tri-Cities is not a hot bed for good paying jobs.
Keep in mind that Warren raises his own dollars, which kind of sucks in a sense, but oh well.

Lover- If you don't like Mullins- then why do you approve of his treatment of me?

You're comments about Tim Mullins among other things speak for themselves. As a member of the media you have to show some respect to get any, no matter what market you're in.

What did I say about Tim Mullins?

WHO is Tim Mullins?

Why don't we ask your former employer SportsTalk, or maybe those still on the uncg board, or mommabear, or I'm sure Rod remembers well...
I lurked back then, I remember the comments made...

My former employers at Sports Talk no longer run the magazine (and it shows).

That is why I don't write for them any more.

Kim and Rod are reactionaries- lest we forget her tantrum here because we had the audacity to ask "how come we haven't heard more nuts and bolts from the Football Foundation?"

We have just rejoiced over Trey Williams' column asking "why didn't anyone have the guts to write this?"

You know, when I did write stuff that exposed the ETSU administration- such as Tim Mullins' harassment of students in the crowd at an ETSU game- instead of championing me, you and so many other two-faced "people" attacked me.

And you wonder why nobody had the guts (or was it skill) to take on ETSU.

i beg to differ my friend. Their are plenty in the area. Maybe go watch a local high school golf event around the area one day. I think you will be surprised. I can name 3 off of the top of my head, that can shoot low 70's, and one that shoots high 60's, and tons shoot mid to high 70's, that have a lot of potential. I play high school golf. I see what happens. I know that there is some very legitimate talent in the area, if Fred would just give a looksee.

So what top 25 golf teams have the multitudes of local players been signing with?

Isn't Chip Spratlin from here? He went to Auburn and won an NCAA Individual championship.

I have mentioned Jonathan Hodge of Jefferson City went to No. 12 Chattanooga. The two-time Southern Conference Player of the Year averaged 71 last year to lead his team.

Georgia had a player average a 71 who was from Chattanooga. Georgia was No. 1 in the same Golf Week rankings that ranked ETSU No. 23.

Number 10 Tennessee had five Tennesseans on their roster. I have mentioned how Phil Pettitt beat ETSU in their own tournament last year.

MTSU finished No. 47 in the country last year. Their seven player roster consists of five players from Tennessee and two from Kentucky.

As far as foreign golf players- I truly believe you can underachieve with them and at worst you can underachieve without them. I'm not convinced that MTSU isn't doing better than ETSU in the long run.

Call me crazy, but I'm of the school of thought that you tier your sports and offer the golf team mostly in-state scholarships (to "save" money), and give basketball and football the larger percentage of out-of-state scholarships (if they need them), and potentially lower your athletic costs that way. ETSU is the exact opposite for some odd reason. I have a feeling our AD doesn't see it my way though.

Pitt, I get your point, but the poster said local.
Local top 25 D1 golf or tennis talent is just as scarce as local D1 basketball talent. Couple that with having a major that the student athlete wants, then add in whether or not the athlete "wants" to stay in the area (ala Wattad), etc.

It is my opinion that the success of golf and tennis are the only things that keep ETSU from dropping to D2. Without their success it would be too easy to argue that ETSU should join Tusculum's conference and save money on travel.

Just my opinons, again, I'm probably in the minority. I've been out in left field so much that I now own a deed to the real estate there

Doc- What is local? Is Jefferson County not local?

I'm not sure golf talent is as scarce as basketball talent, though it should be mentioned that since there is such little basketball talent around here why do we have the media stuffing high school basketball down our throat all the time?

My guess is with the facilities in place you could totally ignore foreign players and still finish No. 47.

Austin Peay has a scrub on their team from Science Hill who played on a state champion. I think he's not even on scholarship.

Now, maybe he went to Austin Peay for education. However, doesn't the fact that a walk-on state champion from Johnson City would rather sit at Austin Peay than ETSU speak volumes about even the environment that Warren has in place?

What if they put him on the team? Would ETSU fall to Division II? Of course not!

In fact, with the facilities in place, the commitment to golf, and the reputation of Fred Warren I find it hard to believe ETSU would not be a plum place for any golfer to choose to attend.

If Warren couldn't land a Pettitt or a Hodge here, then he isn't trying. Either that or the reputation of the golf team is such that an American golfer would literally feel out of place in his own country as a member of the ETSU team.

So far Gareth Shaw has been named to 2 All American teams.

So?

Pitt, I know everyone has their definiton of "Local", but to me, no Jefferson County isn't local.

Maybe so in your definition. Some people think Greeneville and Abingdon are part of the Tri-Cities. Others don't.

But let's just use your definition of "local."

What I'm afraid is the golf program uses that excuse of "well, there aren't enough LOCAL players to field a championship caliber golf team so we have to go overseas," when perhaps if they looked in their very own state it would cut costs and allow them to put together a better team.

I'm afraid Warren doesn't know how to recruit Americans. It's like before he had the golf facility, when perhaps he had to go overseas to get the quality talent to compete nationally on the lure of playing in the USA.

Now, with his own reputation cemented, a greater commitment to his sport by his school, much easier admission standards than Stanford, and state of the art facilities, Warren doesn't have to do that. I'm sure ETSU would be very attractive to an IN STATE talent like Hodge or Pettitt.

There is one point of yours I'd like to call out, however.

It was the idea that the golf and tennis teams are what is keeping ETSU from dropping to Division II.

I am not of that opinion.

First of all, I feel that the basketball programs are still competitive in Division I. The women made the NCAAs and the men post winning records.

If some of the revenue pie was taken away from tennis and golf and given to other sports, it is likely the other sports would be more competitive. In the case of golf it might be even MORE competitive.

There is a huge difference between dropping football and going D-II. It is easy to theorize that for whatever travel expenses you'd save, a greater loss would occur in overall revenues coming in.

Media attention would fall significantly, and so would interest.

I don't have a lot of faith in the current administration, but I do have that much faith in them!